Why my dentist does not bike commute

[noisebeam]

I once rode my bike to the dentist during my lunch hour. It was 116F and I will never ever do it again. Sitting in a dentist seat at first slipping all over the place all lubed up with excessive sweat then sticking to the seat after it started to dry during the course of the 45mph dental probing resulting in burning salty skin is a horrible feeling. I think they brought in a decontamination team to spray the place down after they peeled me off the seat and sent me home.

Al

[Bekologist]

Okay, just checking. I try to ride my bike to all my appointments, sweat be damned. The doctor always is in a tizzy that my blood pressure is elevated..........

I can see the scene in my mind, and it's kind of funny in its hypocricy, if not sad that it's being used to further HH's traffic biking 'methods'

SCENE: Dentist's office


Patient: Rushing in, obviously late for appointment, sweaty.
"Sorry I'm late, Doc, I couldn't find a parking spot. Say, you should ride your bike to the office. Do you bike commute?"

Dentist: thinking to self, that's odd, this guy just drove to the office......

"Naw, those cell phone toting drivers, they'll get me!" and applies the laughing gas.....

[Helmet Head]

It's only hypocrisy, Bek, if you're assuming that anyone advocating bicycling is a hypocrite if he is not a car-free advocate, or something close to that (including making it a point to try to ride a bike to all appointments), which I find to be an absurd premise.

[Bekologist]

You always bring that up in defense of your driving, Helmet Head.

It doesn't change the reality you don't ride much. Hypocricy, buddy.

Ask your dentist the next time you drive to see him, if he'd be more likely to bike to the office if there were better bicycle accomodations along his route.

[noisebeam]

With the experience of road cycling under ones belt, one can learn a lot about cycling facilities and motorist-cyclist interactions from behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Getting different perspectives is very educational.

Al

[genec]

I bet Lance Armstrong drives to the dentist too. BFD.

Heck I bet Lance doesn't even bike commute.

[Helmet Head]

Heck I bet Lance doesn't even bike commute.
Yet he's the most effective advocate of cycling we've ever had, without even trying. Greg LeMond is the only one who could come even close.

[genec]

It doesn't change the reality you don't ride much. Hypocricy, buddy.


Bek, he rides enough to be able to pull a darn good pace on a 20+ mile ride...

I do an average of 16MPH on my 20 mile rides... that is with peaks of 35 and lows of 8. HH can easily do better than my average on the same 20 miles.

Your whole attack based on "driving" is wearing mighty thin. Do you never drive?

I will also admit that some of HH's ideas are also a bit on the iffy side... based more on "logic" than reality. I also find that his view of the world seems to missing some of the thorns. Perhaps he is not the keen observer of life that he likes to believe.

So don't get me wrong, I am not "siding" with either one of you... just the whole argument for argument sake here on the forum. 'Nuff said.

[genec]

Yet he's the most effective advocate of cycling we've ever had, without even trying. Greg LeMond is the only one who could come even close.

Sure, but only because he is a recognized name... frankly he is not doing squat to promote cycling... he is focused on the cancer thing.

Can you show me one cycling promotion he has done since TdF? Cycling across America for cancer research is not a "cycling promotion."

[Helmet Head]

Yet he's the most effective advocate of cycling we've ever had, without even trying.

Can you show me one cycling promotion he has done since TdF?
I appreciate the words of support above, Gene, but sometimes you still drive me nuts.

What part of "without even trying" do you not understand? And if you do understand it, why would you ask me to show you a cycling promotion he has done?

Beating cancer and then winning the TdF made Armstrong the most effective advocate of U.S. cycling ever, period. The next six wins were frosting on the cake.

Imagine how much more "credible" and effective he could be if he would start cycling to the dentist. :rolleyes:

[billh]

. . . Every bike lane emblem and sign reinforces The Notion that
cyclists are fundamentally different from other traffic, and should be
treated accordingly (because if they're not, they'll be killed).


. . . gee whiz, I always thought what reinforces THE NOTION that cyclists are fundamentally different from other traffic is that cyclists ride bicycles and motorists drive motor vehicles, silly me.

[genec]

I appreciate the words of support above, Gene, but sometimes you still drive me nuts.

What part of "without even trying" do you not understand? And if you do understand it, why would you ask me to show you a cycling promotion he has done?

Beating cancer and then winning the TdF made Armstrong the most effective advocate of U.S. cycling ever, period. The next six wins were frosting on the cake.

Imagine how much more "credible" and effective he could be if he would start cycling to the dentist. :rolleyes:


Imagine how much more impact he could make by speaking directly to the issue of cycling advocacy. Sure he has done a lot just by doing what he did, but he is walking away from it to pursue the cancer issue (which frankly probably pays better).

But imagine if he rallied the Prez and Arnold to support cycling and build up local bike classes and PSAs and that whole route. Imagine if federal funding were available to teach cycling at all elementary schools. Imagine if parents started letting kids ride to school again and motorists applauded the effort. Imagine a whole generation of kids weaned off the "addiction of oil."

[Helmet Head]

I haven't, and am not about to, argue, that Armstrong could not do more to advocate cycling than he already has done. Of course he can do more. Much more.

[genec]

I haven't, and am not about to, argue, that Armstrong could not do more to advocate cycling than he already has done. Of course he can do more. Much more.

Don't get me wrong, Armstrong has done a great deed... Heck, I admire just the TdF and the record 7 wins... for various reasons.

But the fact of the matter is that his action promotes cycling as an isolated sport... not as transportation.

In fact, the whole commentary on the radio the other day... Rick Roberts... centered on disgust of "Lance wannabees," so the driving public has that image in their minds... that doesn't do a thing for the commuting cyclist.

Beginning to see the issue there Mr VC?

[Helmet Head]

I repeat, of course he can do more. Much more.

Are you saying anything contrary to that? What issue do you think I'm not seeing?

[genec]

I repeat, of course he can do more. Much more.

Are you saying anything contrary to that? What issue do you think I'm not seeing?

Nope, we are in full agreement. I was just outlining some potential.

Do you see though the issue of biking as a sport verses biking as transportation.

[Bekologist]

I think the reality you're not admiting to, Helmet Head, is that it is from the sheer depths of hyprocricy that you quiz your dentist about his lack of bicycling to the office, while you drove there yourself,

then formulating some mumbojumbo 'SFTC' "methodology" around his possibly insincere comments into a diatribe for your advocacy "message"

"Look Doc, you should ride your bike to the office- I drove here, but don't mind that, you should really ride. Do you mind if I misquote you on the internet to further my line of bull?"

I'm sorry, it's something I'M confused about???

[KrisPistofferson]

I don't have a car, but then again I don't have dental insurance, either... :( :beer:

[Helmet Head]

I think the reality you're not admiting to, Helmet Head, is that it is from the sheer depths of hyprocricy that you quiz your dentist about his lack of bicycling to the office, while you drove there yourself,

then formulating some mumbojumbo 'SFTC' "methodology" around his possibly insincere comments into a diatribe for your advocacy "message"

"Look Doc, you should ride your bike to the office- I drove here, but don't mind that, you should really ride. Do you mind if I misquote you on the internet to further my line of bull?"

I'm sorry, it's something I'M confused about???
Asked and answered (#103).

[Bekologist]

You ALWAYS bring that up in defense of all the driving you do Helmet Head...

you are such the avid 'traffic cyclist' you....I mean, avid cager!

Remember that A&S thread you started about you driving behind a biker and criticising him down at the University?

Do you set a good example, or are you a 'do as I say, not as I do' advocate from the hipocricy camp?

sheer hipocricy, Helmet Head.

[Helmet Head]

And I will continue to bring up that defense, Bek, because it completely defuses your point.

[Bekologist]

helmet head, just admit it, you're an avid cager.

You have nothing in common with everyday transportation bicyclists as far as I can tell, except you sometimes ride your bike when you're not driving to and from work, shopping, your dentist, meetings, whatever.

[Helmet Head]

I'm an avid cager. Never claimed I wasn't, or wrote anything that implied I wasn't.

I'm not an everyday transportation bicyclist, though for most of the last 5 years I rode more days of the week than I didn't.

I don't know of many everyday transportation bicyclists in San Diego. Everybody drove to the advocacy meeting the other night. Not one bike in sight.

[Bekologist]

'not one bike in sight' eh? that's sad, and kind of pathetic.

Maybe San Diego needs better bike lanes :)

[Bekologist]

yep, Helmet Head sure makes San Diego sound like its a city ripe for a little better bike accomodation....

you've got dentists afraid to bike six miles to work because of all the distracted drivers, and the bike advocates drive to the advocacy meetings...

what is it you guys talk about at those advocacy meetings -how less bike lanes will encourage MORE advocates to drive to the meetings???? :)

[sbhikes]

When I lived in San Diego I rode my bike to work every day.

Sometimes I think recreational cycling, racing, and triathelons do a disservice to advocacy because they reinforce the idea that cycling is extra-curricular and therefore not very important or necessary to support with adequate infrastructure.

[genec]

When I lived in San Diego I rode my bike to work every day.

Sometimes I think recreational cycling, racing, and triathelons do a disservice to advocacy because they reinforce the idea that cycling is extra-curricular and therefore not very important or necessary to support with adequate infrastructure.

Bingo. Gee, just about the same thing I mentioned with regard to Lance... where do I send your dollar... :D

I really do believe that there is a certain aspect to that... that rarely do motorists believe that cyclists have to bike, and are therefore are just more darn "blockage" on the road.

In fact, that thinking has changed my attitude about clothing and motorist's attitudes toward cyclists.

For a while (most of this last year) I felt that dressing "professionally" would perhaps give motorists the impression that I knew what I was doing, (clothes make the man) and they would in turn, then treat me that way. I did get positive comments from motorists... (never happened before) which then reinforced my thinking.

But over all, the commentary from negative motorists have lead me to believe that "colored pajamas" don't help one bit. So now I just wear what works best for the moment.

But the bottom line is that cycling is not viewed as transportation by many motorists, except in the case of kids and students. The rest of us are supposed to "grow up."

Too bad for those narrow minded motorists, but that does seem to be heart of a lot of their thinking toward cyclists.

[Bekologist]

I can't even tell if cycling is genuinely viewed as transportation by the original poster, Gene!!

[sbhikes]

When I see a man in slacks and a button-down shirt riding a bike it's pretty obvious what he's doing. And yes, he does look like somebody to respect a little more as a legitimate road user than say, your average Lance wannabe blowing the lights to keep his average speed up. Sad to say.

[genec]

When I see a man in slacks and a button-down shirt riding a bike it's pretty obvious what he's doing. And yes, he does look like somebody to respect a little more as a legitimate road user than say, your average Lance wannabe blowing the lights to keep his average speed up. Sad to say.

Yeah the whole button down shirt and bike riding do not go hand in hand for me. Comfort is the key. I used to wear orange and red shirts with a vest like yours... various layers that allowed me to reconfigure my wear for the weather. Recently I started wearing a couple of different bright (not team) jerseys.

Now I wear jerseys when riding with others wearing jerseys, t shirts when riding my commuter, and just about anything, when I am just out cruising around. Comfort.

I don't think it matters... motorists don't care what you wear.

Bright clothing helps you be seen, but overall, the impressions you make on a motorist have little to do with your clothing... although some extremes can signify certain things... IE your button down example... or wearing cut offs and ragged sweatshirt at the other extreme.

[noisebeam]

Sometimes I think recreational cycling, racing, and triathelons do a disservice to advocacy because they reinforce the idea that cycling is extra-curricular and therefore not very important or necessary to support with adequate infrastructure.
I see the opposite too. It is the recreational cyclists I know who are most concered about lack of cycling specific facilities (i.e. BLs,) chose routes (and have the luxury to do so) based on which roads have BL and sometimes (absurdly) avoid routes that don't. They don't seem to care about the trend in making say 50% of roads more bike aware results in making the remaining 50% less bike friendly. Meaning they are fine with the idea of making a city more bike friendly by adding a BL to one street, reducing its speed limit and having a parallel street 1mi away have the speed limit increased. But this result in worsening the safety for the commuting and utility cyclist who need to get everywhere. Some of us live and work right off of those now auto-centric streets.

Al

[noisebeam]

When I see a man in slacks and a button-down shirt riding a bike it's pretty obvious what he's doing. And yes, he does look like somebody to respect a little more as a legitimate road user than say, your average Lance wannabe blowing the lights to keep his average speed up. Sad to say.
Sure, but someone on a bike with a rear view mirror, simple black cycling shorts and and a hi-vis T-shirt, excellent lights and a backpack or panniers also 'reads' utility cyclist vs. sport, but is far more comfortable than wearing office attire - actually essential in the summer in Phoenix.

But of course all cyclists should be respected. I know a few commuters who are also serious racers and wear their full racing/training gear to/from work (one does 30mi ea. way) and have arranged things so they don't need to carry any extras to/from work.

Al

[wabbit]

i think some people are concerned about hurting themselves on the way to work- of course you can crash anytime, but for some falling on the way to work is a worry.

I remember I worked for a while at an office and the owner (they were a husband and wife) told me she liked to do spinning. She said she used to ride a bike sometimes but fell and hurt herself. She was a bit of a princess and probably kind of squeamish. However, she also smoked a lot and I wondered how much good she would be at spinning...

[remsav]

Too much blame on the bike lane, we don't have any up here and hardly anyone (saw 3 last year) rides on the road in summer or winter. Most bike commuter I see use MUP especially in snow/ice conditions... it's funny when temperture dips below -5F, you see more biker then skier/jogger on the MUP.

I think MUP is the best seller for city planner, it's multi-purpose and it also reduces slow-moving-vehicle ie bike off the roads... next best thing for DOT would be to put BL with only useful purpose of putting slow-moving-vehicle (bike) off the faster road.

[noisebeam]

I've said it before on this forum...

The only reason I spent the past 10yrs+ driving to work instead of cycling was because I didn't know any better. I honestly never even once even thought about cycling instead of driving, let alone get to the point of having excuses not to.

I story of me starting was I got rid of an old car that was beyond repair, put myself on a 5month wait list for a new one (a Prius) and while waiting planned to take the the bus to work. That became tedious as I needed to change busses resulting in a 18min drive turning into a 1hr+ bus route, so after ~1mo. of bus riding I dug out the old bicycle from the back of the garage and never looked back.

Al

[squeakywheel]

Taking a random sample of our population, what percentage do you think
would agree with the assertion that riding a bicycle in traffic can be
a reasonably safe activity? My dentist is no dummy. But in his mind
the difference between him and me is that I'm willing to take
unreasonable risks "with those nuts out there", and he's not. It
wouldn't occur to him that there is more to riding a bike safely in
traffic than what he learned about riding bikes as a kid. "Stay out
of the way of cars" is the primary principle, obviously. What else is
there to know?


Are you sure your dentist is wrong? There are risks. Maybe higher risks than going the same route in a car. I've evaluated the risks on my commuting route and decided they are acceptable to me. One of my neighbors (whome I also work with) has decided they are not acceptable for him.

I factor many things into the decision to bike commute. Immediate safety is just one. Economics, general health, and the enjoyment of the ride are others.

For the record, I think my neighbor's sedentary lifestyle will kill him before someone talking on a phone in their SUV kills me. I don't know that for certain, though.

[squeakywheel]

I've said it before on this forum...

The only reason I spent the past 10yrs+ driving to work instead of cycling was because I didn't know any better. I honestly never even once even thought about cycling instead of driving, let alone get to the point of having excuses not to.

I story of me starting was I got rid of an old car that was beyond repair, put myself on a 5month wait list for a new one (a Prius) and while waiting planned to take the the bus to work. That became tedious as I needed to change busses resulting in a 18min drive turning into a 1hr+ bus route, so after ~1mo. of bus riding I dug out the old bicycle from the back of the garage and never looked back.

Al

My story is similar. Never occurred to me to ride my bike to work. My motivation to start bike commuting was to avoid buying a third car for the family. So much wasted opportunity. All those years driving to work.

[squeakywheel]

It's only hypocrisy, Bek, if you're assuming that anyone advocating bicycling is a hypocrite if he is not a car-free advocate, or something close to that (including making it a point to try to ride a bike to all appointments), which I find to be an absurd premise.

Evangelists in other pursuits are held to higher standards than the common man. Why should this be different?

I also find it kind of funny that you were proselytizing after driving there. He was being polite, but was surely thinking show me your bike "big talker". :lol:

[bbonnn]

When I see a man in slacks and a button-down shirt riding a bike it's pretty obvious what he's doing.

He's doing his year of missionary work for the Church of Latter-Day Saints? :)