Training & Nutrition - Weightlifting to tone up but SORE?!

Ok, The T&N forum has been dead all day, I guess everyones out riding :) Anyhow, I have "tried" to add weight training to my execise program that started around the first of February. My ultimate goal is to loose weight and both feel and look good. On Feb 1, I weighed in a 210 pounds. I did a little modified atkins deal for 7 days to kind of kickstart my deal.

Atkins sucked, I lost 4 pounds but felt hungover all the time, Glad it was only for a week. With that said, I kicked it into high gear. At 5'9" 206 I started eating healthy foods, and taking in minimal fats and Calories and started exercising (bike).

As of this past week. I have gotten down to 196 pounds and feel good. I dont like to set goals but About 20 of us couples are heading to the beach as we do ever year and I would LOVE to Clock in around 175. At 1.66 pounds per week, I think this is very attainable. Consuming an average of 1700 calories a day of good fruit, wheats and a ton of water, I have started seeing a change in my clothes and also the mirror. Though I havnt gotten one of those "have you lost weight?" I know I look different.

I have alot of coaches that have helped me from this forum and I thank them.

Ok, this past week, I have started adding weights to my program. 100% for definition. I do not want to bulk up. Imagine Race driver, Tony Stewart and thats me. Maybe a little lighter now but I look just like him people say.

People say, to get a cut look and tone up, go light weight, high reps. My dad is a power lifter and he hasnt a clue because he tries to get me to bulk up and I surely dont want that. So dad is not a help, (thought he has the gym so I have to be nice).

Im sore as heck and only did LIGHT stuff, like 25 pound curls, 50 pound benches. No more really than 25 pounds and high reps on anything. My main focus is to get a jump start and tone my muscles under neath my fat so as I burn off the fat with the bike and cardio, My tone definition will start to show through.

Is this wrong? Why am Im sore? I can lift several more pounds than what Im doing now. Is it the high reps? Anyone? I dont want to gain weight, thats for sure. Just wanna tone up as my fat burns off and hopefully the muscles that I am working will show through as the fat goes away?

Thanks in advance for all the replies and thanks for the support from DannoXYZ, Edzo, Sandy Swimmer, Lowcel and KevinMcdade.

:)

By the sounds of things you are not getting enough protein my friend. No matter what your goals are, protein is a very essential macronutrient. When you train with weights, your muscles are broken down, and subsequently need a combonation of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats to rebuild themselves. I would certinally recommend consuming a quick release protein shake that is high in amino acids (Whey Protein) post workout to aid in your recovery. Don't succumb to the myth that protein powders are for bodybuilders becuase it is simply not true, everyone needs protein, especially athletes, regardless of their sport. As for bodybulders, there is a lot more to the equation than a shake or two a day... these guys are consuming thousands upon thousands of calories a day, doing minimal cardio and participating in a weight routine that is night and day from yours.

If you are still finding recovery an issue after supplementing with protein, you may choose to add a BCAA supplement to your lineup. BCAA stands for Branched Chain Amino Acids and consists of the amino acids most essential to rebuilding torn muscles.

All the best and good luck!!

-kyle

I also drink whey protein shakes (with a frozen banana in it) after a workout. Protein is important. I try to have some protein within the hour of my strength training workout. If I can't have a shake, I have a can of sardines, some peanut butter, or a handful of nuts.

With soreness . . .
make sure you stretch afterwards
drink lots of water, keep hydrated

I'm usually sore the day after if I've been away from strength training, or if I suddenly increased reps or increased weight. It's amazing what doing slow motion lifts can do for the muscles . . . slow motion push-ups are really interesting.

With strength training, I see so many people at the gym rush and end up depending on momentum rather than the strength of muscles . . . and they wonder why they aren't seeing progress.

Get a deep tissue sports massage every now and then just to get circulation going (after my workout on the day before my day off is my favorite time).

Look up DOMS or Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness on google. You'll get a pile of sites telling you why you are sore ... and some might even tell you what to do about it.

Ok, The T&N forum has been dead all day, I guess everyones out riding :) Anyhow, I have "tried" to add weight training to my execise program that started around the first of February. My ultimate goal is to loose weight and both feel and look good. On Feb 1, I weighed in a 210 pounds. I did a little modified atkins deal for 7 days to kind of kickstart my deal.

Atkins sucked, I lost 4 pounds but felt hungover all the time, Glad it was only for a week. With that said, I kicked it into high gear. At 5'9" 206 I started eating healthy foods, and taking in minimal fats and Calories and started exercising (bike).

As of this past week. I have gotten down to 196 pounds and feel good. I dont like to set goals but About 20 of us couples are heading to the beach as we do ever year and I would LOVE to Clock in around 175. At 1.66 pounds per week, I think this is very attainable. Consuming an average of 1700 calories a day of good fruit, wheats and a ton of water, I have started seeing a change in my clothes and also the mirror. Though I havnt gotten one of those "have you lost weight?" I know I look different.

I have alot of coaches that have helped me from this forum and I thank them.

Ok, this past week, I have started adding weights to my program. 100% for definition. I do not want to bulk up. Imagine Race driver, Tony Stewart and thats me. Maybe a little lighter now but I look just like him people say.

People say, to get a cut look and tone up, go light weight, high reps. My dad is a power lifter and he hasnt a clue because he tries to get me to bulk up and I surely dont want that. So dad is not a help, (thought he has the gym so I have to be nice).

Im sore as heck and only did LIGHT stuff, like 25 pound curls, 50 pound benches. No more really than 25 pounds and high reps on anything. My main focus is to get a jump start and tone my muscles under neath my fat so as I burn off the fat with the bike and cardio, My tone definition will start to show through.

Is this wrong? Why am Im sore? I can lift several more pounds than what Im doing now. Is it the high reps? Anyone? I dont want to gain weight, thats for sure. Just wanna tone up as my fat burns off and hopefully the muscles that I am working will show through as the fat goes away?

Thanks in advance for all the replies and thanks for the support from DannoXYZ, Edzo, Sandy Swimmer, Lowcel and KevinMcdade.

:)

You're sore because you're working the muscles in a different way- and you're tearing the muscle when you do your weightlifting, even if you're not lifting very heavy. You're also new to the weight training routine too. So you are going to be sore. Continue with your training, though, and try a few things- massage, a whirlpool bath afterwards, or stretching.

What you are experiencing is DOMS- delayed onset muscle soreness. This is to be expected, since it is caused by microtears in the muscle from weightlifting. The DOMS after your weightlifting will probably last for several weeks, but eventually, it will minimize. Just give it time, and keep up the good work.

Koffee

thx everyone!

You're sore because you're working the muscles in a different way- and you're tearing the muscle when you do your weightlifting, even if you're not lifting very heavy. You're also new to the weight training routine too. So you are going to be sore. Continue with your training, though, and try a few things- massage, a whirlpool bath afterwards, or stretching.

What you are experiencing is DOMS- delayed onset muscle soreness. This is to be expected, since it is caused by microtears in the muscle from weightlifting. The DOMS after your weightlifting will probably last for several weeks, but eventually, it will minimize. Just give it time, and keep up the good work.

Koffee

Being sore means your muscles are adapting. I love it.

sup 53 long time no read.:)

Eat a lot of protein to avoid being sore for as long. In my experience, if I keep loaded up on protein, especially before bed and right after I wake up, the soreness goes away much more quickly. There have been a few times where I skipped breakfast two days after a workout day. It hurt a lot more that day than the day before when I had kept up with my protein shakes and meals. Your body needs that stuff to repair those muscles and if you don't give your body what it needs, it has nothing to repair them with, and may even cannibalize protein from your muscles given the right circumstances, such as not eating a meal.

You should be aware that "toning" and "definition" has little to do with muscle and weight lifting. It has everything to do with body fat. Remove fat, and muscles show, no matter what size the muscle is.

That said, larger muscles are not a bad thing unless you're a competitve climber. Each pound of muscle will burn about 50 calories/day - at rest! Weight training can be addictive. Not only will you lose weight, you will place muscle in all the right spots. Don't worry about getting too bulky. It would take one heck of a lot of serious wieght training for a long time for that to even be a possibility. Most serious weight trainers who have little body fat, look skinny in their street clothes. Those guys on TV in the body building contests are extreme examples of fanatical training for many years and plenty of steroids. Those guys get very limited aerobic excercise. It's considered bad for building large muscles.

Pay attention to what others have said about protein and hydrating. When training, many would recommend that you have approx. 1 gram of protein/day for each pound of lean body mass. Drink many glasses of water each day. The combination of diet, weight training, and aerobic excercise can transform a body into a lean, mean bike riding machine, very quickly.

Ok, The T&N forum has been dead all day, I guess everyones out riding :) Anyhow, I have "tried" to add weight training to my execise program that started around the first of February. My ultimate goal is to loose weight and both feel and look good. On Feb 1, I weighed in a 210 pounds. I did a little modified atkins deal for 7 days to kind of kickstart my deal.

Atkins sucked, I lost 4 pounds but felt hungover all the time, Glad it was only for a week. With that said, I kicked it into high gear. At 5'9" 206 I started eating healthy foods, and taking in minimal fats and Calories and started exercising (bike).

As of this past week. I have gotten down to 196 pounds and feel good. I dont like to set goals but About 20 of us couples are heading to the beach as we do ever year and I would LOVE to Clock in around 175. At 1.66 pounds per week, I think this is very attainable. Consuming an average of 1700 calories a day of good fruit, wheats and a ton of water, I have started seeing a change in my clothes and also the mirror. Though I havnt gotten one of those "have you lost weight?" I know I look different.

I have alot of coaches that have helped me from this forum and I thank them.

Ok, this past week, I have started adding weights to my program. 100% for definition. I do not want to bulk up. Imagine Race driver, Tony Stewart and thats me. Maybe a little lighter now but I look just like him people say.

People say, to get a cut look and tone up, go light weight, high reps. My dad is a power lifter and he hasnt a clue because he tries to get me to bulk up and I surely dont want that. So dad is not a help, (thought he has the gym so I have to be nice).

Im sore as heck and only did LIGHT stuff, like 25 pound curls, 50 pound benches. No more really than 25 pounds and high reps on anything. My main focus is to get a jump start and tone my muscles under neath my fat so as I burn off the fat with the bike and cardio, My tone definition will start to show through.

Is this wrong? Why am Im sore? I can lift several more pounds than what Im doing now. Is it the high reps? Anyone? I dont want to gain weight, thats for sure. Just wanna tone up as my fat burns off and hopefully the muscles that I am working will show through as the fat goes away?

Thanks in advance for all the replies and thanks for the support from DannoXYZ, Edzo, Sandy Swimmer, Lowcel and KevinMcdade.

:)


Drop the pink dumbbells and go heavy. It's doing nothing for your muscles... you're just burning calories doing those high reps (that's fine if that's what you want). If you don't weight train and go heavy then when you hit that 175 pounds, you will just be a miniature version of yourself. Your face and neck will look slimmer and your abs may start to show and people will notice your weight loss, but your body composition will be exactly as it is now (give or take depending on how it is now). You want as much muscle as possible and on a calorie restricted diet you won't gain any muscle (except for some newbie gains. But nothing noticeable) When you go on a calorie restricted diet your body wants to get rid of that "expensive" muscle unless you weight train. If you lose muscle it will get harder and harder to lose weight as you get closer to 175. Basically go on a weight training program tailored to building muscle (bulking up) for bodybuilders. Your diet will ensure you don't "bulk up". Going on your dad's powerlifting routine would be a great idea. He'll probably have a whole bunch of compound exercises you can do. But stick to 6-10 reps.

Soreness is just lactic acid buildup and not an indication of the muscle fibers being torn. Good luck.

Yo and McSpin know what they're talking about. Listen to them.

lol pink dumbells!!!!

thx guys!

just like everyone else said, its normal to be sore after beginning a new weight training regimen. your body needs time to adapt.

upping your protein intake is a good way to recover faster between workouts, as well as to maximize the results of the workout.

Drop the pink dumbbells and go heavy. It's doing nothing for your muscles... you're just burning calories doing those high reps (that's fine if that's what you want). If you don't weight train and go heavy then when you hit that 175 pounds, you will just be a miniature version of yourself. Your face and neck will look slimmer and your abs may start to show and people will notice your weight loss, but your body composition will be exactly as it is now (give or take depending on how it is now). You want as much muscle as possible and on a calorie restricted diet you won't gain any muscle (except for some newbie gains. But nothing noticeable) When you go on a calorie restricted diet your body wants to get rid of that "expensive" muscle unless you weight train. If you lose muscle it will get harder and harder to lose weight as you get closer to 175. Basically go on a weight training program tailored to building muscle (bulking up) for bodybuilders. Your diet will ensure you don't "bulk up". Going on your dad's powerlifting routine would be a great idea. He'll probably have a whole bunch of compound exercises you can do. But stick to 6-10 reps.

Soreness is just lactic acid buildup and not an indication of the muscle fibers being torn. Good luck.

Ummm.... not.

See a personal trainer. What you said really made no sense. Not even the reps you mentioned make sense. And make sure the personal trainer has a good certification, not some lightweight, phone it home certification they got online.

Koffee

Ummm.... not.

See a personal trainer. What you said really made no sense. Not even the reps you mentioned make sense. And make sure the personal trainer has a good certification, not some lightweight, phone it home certification they got online.

Koffee


That's great. :rolleyes: Telling me I'm wrong and then telling the OP to go see a trainer. So what rep range would you recommend?


To the OP, unless you want specific training (for a sport, more explosion in your muscles, etc) don't go to a personal trainer. They are just a waste of money. If you have plenty of money, then go ahead. But just wanting to lose fat while keeping your muscle doesn't require a personal trainer.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

This should get you started. But there's a lot of information on the other parts of the forum.

That's great. :rolleyes: Telling me I'm wrong and then telling the OP to go see a trainer. So what rep range would you recommend?


To the OP, unless you want specific training (for a sport, more explosion in your muscles, etc) don't go to a personal trainer. They are just a waste of money. If you have plenty of money, then go ahead. But just wanting to lose fat while keeping your muscle doesn't require a personal trainer.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

This should get you started. But there's a lot of information on the other parts of the forum.

Depends. For mass, I say 3- 5 repetitions. For muscle endurance, I say 8- 10 reps. For muscle maintenance, I say 12- 15 reps. Of course, this is according to the ACE guidelines and was given to us at the 2005 ACSM personal trainer summit in NYC. This is how personal trainers work. Where did you get your information from?

Koffee

Depends. For mass, I say 3- 5 repetitions. For muscle endurance, I say 8- 10 reps. For muscle maintenance, I say 12- 15 reps. Of course, this is according to the ACE guidelines and was given to us at the 2005 ACSM personal trainer summit in NYC. This is how personal trainers work. Where did you get your information from?

Koffee


First off building, maintaining, or losing muscle is all about diet (assuming you are going heavy enough to do 12 reps).

You make it sound like someone will get huge doing 3-5 reps while another person won't gain muscle doing 12-15 reps.

3-5 and you're form is compromised and you don't deplete enough atp or cause enough microtears. 12-15 will let you make muscle, but 6-10 will be optimal.

Bottom line: Lift heavy with good form and you will be rewarded.

First off building, maintaining, or losing muscle is all about diet (assuming you are going heavy enough to do 12 reps).

You make it sound like someone will get huge doing 3-5 reps while another person won't gain muscle doing 12-15 reps.

3-5 and you're form is compromised and you don't deplete enough atp or cause enough microtears. 12-15 will let you make muscle, but 6-10 will be optimal.

Bottom line: Lift heavy with good form and you will be rewarded.

No, I'm talking about the proper means of weightlifting for mass vs. muscular endurance... and I'm referring to working at a certain percent of your 1 RM. What % of your 1RM are you referring to? At what point are you talking about max. hypertrophy? I wasn't referring to diet. If you want to talk diet, that's a whole different ballgame, and at that point, it's time to see a personal trainer who can put together your training program, and for your nutritional needs, either a dietitian or nutritionist (dietitian preferable) to determine your metabolism and work with the personal trainer to see what your nutritional needs would be based on the amount of exercise you're doing).

*sigh* This is a lost cause. Arguing with someone who hasn't the proper training is... pfffft. No more interest in participating. Good luck to the OP.

Koffee

First congratulations on all your success so far... You are doing great, really great...

It is normal to feel sore after working out... in fact, feeling sore is an indication that you are challenging your muscles, and they will be forced to respond. However, your goal of 1.66 lbs a week is rapid, the recomendation out there is 1lb a week, more than that and you start loosing muscle. However, you can counteract that by doing what people here are saying, eat more lean stake... Proteins, in any form, shake, milk, stake... One good idea is to increase the protein intake, and if you are watching your calories, cut down on carbs... Not like the Atkins, as a perfect diet is a balanced diet, just switch some...

The other thing - it's really hard to bulk up while you are trying to loose weight. Bodybuilder double their caloric intake in order to bulk up. So, from that aspect, even going heavy will do you good and probably be the fastest way to get a toned defined body. Just to make sure that you understand, 5-7 reps is considered heavy lifting for building overall strength, 8-12 reps is usually a good balance for building muscle, and 12-16 reps is what is considered high reps for endurance and toning. What I would recommend is switch weekly what you are doing, thus start with a week of 12-16 reps, do one week of 8-12 reps, then go heavy for another week to get some strength, and then lift 8-12 for another week, and then repeat cycle (one month, you want to progress, so hopefully, by the time you repeat the cycle, you are able to lift more, you are stronger, and hey - more defined)... Since you are just starting, 3 days a week, full body workout is probably good. Pick 6-7 exercises, 1 per muscle group (e.g. start with big muscle groups - pull ups are the best exercise out there for back and core muscles overall, bench press for chest, overhead press for your delts, curls and extensions for bi and tris, abs, and legs), do 3 sets per exercise... on your last set you should not be able to lift anymore then the desired number of reps (e.g. 15 reps and that's it, you cannot lift anymore - usually that's about 70-80% of your max - the weight you can do only one rep)... switch the order day to day (e.g. back, chest, delt, bi, tri, legs, abs then chest, back, delt, tri, bi, legs, abs)

Every time I get back to lifting, I end up throwing up after the first few workouts and feeling really sore and even painful for a week... I take it easy that week, maybe work out only once, or twice... One of those solutions for heart burn will help here too... The soreness is due to build up of lactic acid in the muscles, so if you counteract the acid, you help the problem. Also, stretching and massaging the muscles will help decrease soreness, as it gets rid of some lactic acid... It takes a couple weeks to a month for your body to fully adjust, but by then you will see a more defined body... If you get through the first month, you will start feeling good about the workouts, and close to second month you will see drastic changes (the first month it's mainly innervation results, so you gain strength as your nervous system learns how to stimulate those unused muscle groups) which will keep you motivated...

Good luck...

Depends. For mass, I say 3- 5 repetitions. For muscle endurance, I say 8- 10 reps. For muscle maintenance, I say 12- 15 reps. Of course, this is according to the ACE guidelines and was given to us at the 2005 ACSM personal trainer summit in NYC. This is how personal trainers work. Where did you get your information from?

Koffee


The American College of Sport Medicine published a position paper on weight training for healthy adults. Here is their reccommendation for strength training:



It is recommended that
novice to intermediate lifters train with loads corresponding to
60–70% of 1 RM for 8–12 repetitions and advanced individuals
use loading ranges of 80–100% of 1 RM in a periodized
fashion to maximize muscular strength. For progression in
those individuals training at a specific RM load (e.g., 8–12
repetitions), it is recommended that a 2–10% increase be
applied on the basis of muscle group size and involvement (i.e.,
greater load increases may be used for large muscle group,
multiple-joint exercises than small muscle group exercises)
when the individual can perform the current intensity for one
to two repetitions over the desired number on two consecutive
training sessions.

Here is their reccommendation for muscular hypertrophy (increasing muscle mass):


For novice and intermediate individuals, it is recommended
that moderate loading be used (70–85% of 1 RM)
for 8–12 repetitions per set for one to three sets per exercise.
For advanced training, it is recommended that a loading
range of 70–100% of 1 RM be used for 1–12 repetitions
per set for three to six sets per exercise in periodized
manner such that the majority of training is devoted to 6–12
RM and less training devoted to 1–6 RM loading.

Here is their reccommendation for increasing power:


. . . it is recommended that a power component
consisting of one to three sets per exercise using light
to moderate loading (30–60% of 1 RM) for three to six
repetitions performed not to failure be integrated into the
intermediate strength training program. Progression for power
enhancement uses various loading strategies in a periodized
manner. Heavy loading (85–100% of 1 RM) is necessary for
increasing the force component of the power equation and light
to moderate loading (30–60% of 1 RM) performed at an
explosive velocity is necessary for increasing fast force production.
A multiple-set (three to six sets) power program integrated
into a strength training program consisting of one to six
repetitions in periodized manner is recommended for advanced
power training.




And finally, here is their reccommendation for increasin local muscle endurance:



For novice and intermediate
training, it is recommended that relatively light loads
be used (10–15 repetitions) with moderate to high volume. For
advanced training, it is recommended that various loading
strategies be used for multiple sets per exercise (10–25 repetitions
or more) in periodized manner.


I added the bold print. This is from a PDF, POSITION STAND: Progression Models in Resistance Training for Healthy Adults:


http://acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse/positionstandards.htm;jsessionid=EnKx92ydDKgT0IFgK0dMupUPOZs2lfPCzaCacK19I1XG8BwmuOTm!-1861031787!-949856144!9001!-1
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise - positionstandards


I just resumed weight lifting after more than a year off due to injuries. I have been following the above guidelines for increasing strength. In six weeks, I have noticed significant gains in my strength and have increased loads three times, following the guidelines above. My muscles are also much larger, in only six weeks. I have had almost no muscle soreness whatsoever.

I hope this helps the OP. I think the best bet, if you can't go to a personal trainer, is to seek out good information. In this case, the information came from the group that "trains the trainers."

Each pound of muscle will burn about 50 calories/day - at rest!

I wish that was true. If each pound of muscle burned 50 calories per day, a person with 50 lbs. of muscle would have a basal metabolic rate of 2,500 calories per day from muscles alone. When you add the higher calories needed to keep the organs going and the small number of calories needed for the rest of the body, that person's daily requirements would be well over 4,000 calories before adding in daily exercise.

A more realistic estimate is about 6 calories per pound of muscle (http://www.powerbar.com/NutritionResource/ToolsArticles/ArticlesDetails.aspx?id=4DC068B0-3E6C-4E88-AE8E-B9A7A52BA4FA).

No, I'm talking about the proper means of weightlifting for mass vs. muscular endurance... and I'm referring to working at a certain percent of your 1 RM. What % of your 1RM are you referring to? At what point are you talking about max. hypertrophy? I wasn't referring to diet. If you want to talk diet, that's a whole different ballgame, and at that point, it's time to see a personal trainer who can put together your training program, and for your nutritional needs, either a dietitian or nutritionist (dietitian preferable) to determine your metabolism and work with the personal trainer to see what your nutritional needs would be based on the amount of exercise you're doing).

*sigh* This is a lost cause. Arguing with someone who hasn't the proper training is... pfffft. No more interest in participating. Good luck to the OP.

Koffee

Quit saying go see a PT. We're on these kinds of forums so we can learn all this by ourselves and not pay someone money that took a 3 day course. Losing weight while keeping muscle does not require an "expert".

What is this weightlifting for mass vs. endurance?

I'm talking about the OP's original situation which is weightlifting to keep muscle while on a caloric deficit. Optimal reps would be 6-10 reps. None of this hoopla 1RM %tage. Telling him to lift 75% of his 1 rep max won't help him. Simply lift a weight you can do for 10 reps. Next set add more weight. When you can do that for 10 reps add more weight. Repeat.

By the way, I agree with the other poster that said to cycle the reps. Do what works for you. Some people respond to higher reps, some lower. 6-10 is a good mix.



*sigh* This is a lost cause. Arguing with someone who hasn't the proper training is... pfffft. No more interest in participating. Good luck to the OP.

Koffee

Let's keep this on-topic. You don't know me or my training.

Hey C_Health,

Good job on picking up the weights. From what you have written it would just be that you are simply sore from using your muscles and all the tissue around it like tendons, ligaments and crap- you are not sore the day after from lactic acid. You will only feel lactic acid when you are lifting or shortly after. Your muscles and ligaments will swell and thus pain- soreness. Which is why resting is quite essential, more so then eating protein shakes and such. If you do feel the muscle just stretching and burning you should stop. You could be getting tendonitis, or a tear in the muscle. It does take time to build up to a point where you can lift for over an hour and not injure yourself. It also takes time build up to training a body part multiple times a week. Try to much to soon and you will have to take time off because of injury/ strain.


Also don't ask anyone here about weight lifting- like someone else said go to bodybuilding forums, they can give you great advice. Like I always wonder when I am in the gym- why would a out of shape person hire another out of shape person to tell what works and what doesn't? Obviously the trainer can't find what works for themselves... and I am not expecting Arnold S...

Hey C_Health,

Good job on picking up the weights. From what you have written it would just be that you are simply sore from using your muscles and all the tissue around it like tendons, ligaments and crap- you are not sore the day after from lactic acid. You will only feel lactic acid when you are lifting or shortly after. Your muscles and ligaments will swell and thus pain- soreness. Which is why resting is quite essential, more so then eating protein shakes and such. If you do feel the muscle just stretching and burning you should stop. You could be getting tendonitis, or a tear in the muscle. It does take time to build up to a point where you can lift for over an hour and not injure yourself. It also takes time build up to training a body part multiple times a week. Try to much to soon and you will have to take time off because of injury/ strain.


Also don't ask anyone here about weight lifting- like someone else said go to bodybuilding forums, they can give you great advice. Like I always wonder when I am in the gym- why would a out of shape person hire another out of shape person to tell what works and what doesn't? Obviously the trainer can't find what works for themselves... and I am not expecting Arnold S...

Hey C_Health,

Good job on picking up the weights. From what you have written it would just be that you are simply sore from using your muscles and all the tissue around it like tendons, ligaments and crap- you are not sore the day after from lactic acid. You will only feel lactic acid when you are lifting or shortly after. Your muscles and ligaments will swell and thus pain- soreness. Which is why resting is quite essential, more so then eating protein shakes and such. If you do feel the muscle just stretching and burning you should stop. You could be getting tendonitis, or a tear in the muscle. It does take time to build up to a point where you can lift for over an hour and not injure yourself. It also takes time build up to training a body part multiple times a week. Try to much to soon and you will have to take time off because of injury/ strain.


Also don't ask anyone here about weight lifting- like someone else said go to bodybuilding forums, they can give you great advice. Like I always wonder when I am in the gym- why would a out of shape person hire another out of shape person to tell what works and what doesn't? Obviously the trainer can't find what works for themselves... and I am not expecting Arnold S...


I actually like the soreness as long as it doesn't bother me from everyday activities. Nothing like blasting your chest and then the next day walking down some stairs and letting your tits bounce up and down from the stairs.

It seems you know what type of soreness works for you. For someone starting who has no measuring stick it might be difficult. But I would agree about the no pain no gain idea- not sure about flapping tits though :P

Why are you sore? Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness. (DOMS) A good way to assist in getting rid of that is to do the same exercise which made you sore in the first place; however, utilizing a lighter weight... an extremely lighter weight. Probably a weight that allows you to complete 50 reps. What this does is allow blood to return to the muscle and assist in repair without damaging muscle fibers more. But you better get used to it. Until your body becomes stronger, expect DOMS more frequently. Just remember, more blood = more nutrients = faster recovery times. You also need to be taking your body weight in protein a day. Whey protein, not soy. You can buy a pretty tasty whey protein from GNC that is reasonably priced. It's called Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Protein Powder. It mixes well, is not as clumpy as cheaper brands, tastes great even with water, and works well. I'm in the Army so I get this in the 5 lb. tubs at GNC for about $38. Or you can go to vigorousliving.com. They sell it for about $35 but it takes like 8-10 calendar days to get it. This is the best protein powder I have ever used. I take three 20 ounce Gatorade bottles, fill them with water and 1.5 to 2 scoops of this protein powder, a day. I also drink an extra half gallon or more of water. Doing this on top of eating 6-7 small meals a day works outstanding. But the meals need to be healthy, and I really mean SMALL meals. But not so small as to begin a catabolic type diet. I also supplement with flaxseed oil capsules, (3 a day) to get rid of un-wanted waste, fish oil capsules for the omega 3s, (3 a day), and a multivitamin. If you want to get smart on a really good program that works- read up on the ABS Diet by Men's Health. The eating portion works like it is supposed to, and you find out info about food, fats, carbs, etc. that most people are absolutely wrong about. The workout in there is just not hard enough for me. I lift weights 4 times a week. I commute to work, 13.4 miles one way, about 3 times a week. And I live in Barstow, CA. It get's a little hot and windy here. To develop leg strength, I do squats, calf raises, lunges, etc., and they are great for power. For endurance, you just gotta get on the bike and ride it.
Another method from which to lose weight is cardio based on your heart rate. Depending on what your goals are depends on what heart rate you want to lose weight on. Most people train to hard, in an anaerobic capacity, and try to go lift weights, (an anaerobic activity), and end up becoming burnt out really quick. If you want to burn fat- do cardio between 50-80 % of your max heart rate. You can determine your max heart rate by either taking 220 and subtract your age, or do it based off the Maffetone method, (which I am currently using). As for weight lifting, I can give you a program to begin with if you like, and we can critique it based upon your results. And that heart rate training to lose fat can be done on a bike, or running, or what ever you can as long as you are able to monitor it. A lot of triathletes use this to train, Lance armstrong used the same principle. Lance and others are monitored during races on different variables to include heart rate. Lance during the Tour de France would be passed by someone who was in their anaerobic threshhold while Lance was still in his aerobic threshhold. And he won. So it works.
If you would like to e-mail me with questions, feel free to do so at joval.eblen@us.army.mil

outstanding, thx for the detailed report, and as well, your very first post, WELCOME to the bike forums!

awesome! :)

A more realistic estimate is about 6 calories per pound of muscle (http://www.powerbar.com/NutritionResource/ToolsArticles/ArticlesDetails.aspx?id=4DC068B0-3E6C-4E88-AE8E-B9A7A52BA4FA).

I've seen 50/calories per day in many referenced sources. Here's a couple: http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/calories/burning_calories/burn_more_calories.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NAH/is_5_33/ai_104079968
I could easily find a dozen more.

There are professional body builders who easily burn 8,000+ calories/day with little aerobic exercise. Their workouts consume approx. 1000 calories or less. The rest of the calories over approx. 2,500 calories, are simply maintenance for their muscle mass. At 6 calories per lb, they'd be taking in 1000's of calories too many, each day.

Whatever the number is, it's a lot higher than 6 calories/lb.

Wow.... What a difference of opinions out there.... I have to say though, I agree with Yo- Going heavy is not a bad thing. You are sore due to the DOMS that you experience since you are introducing weights into your program. You are also on a calorie restricted diet, which will make it difficult to gain substancial muscle mass, even though you ingest protein shakes (although that will help resistance to catabolization of the muscle tissue). Also, a powerlifter routine will not "bulk" you up like you think. Powerlifting builds explosive strength, which is from what I think, useful in cycling. However, muscle endurance is also necessary. I would recommend cycling your workout with both power/strength weeks, and endurance weeks. Maybe 2/2 or whatever you are comfortable with. If you want, PM me. I can send you links that will keep you busy for months reading... Also, there is really no such thing as "TONE!!!!" Fat loss is the key. You have muscle that is shapely, it is the body fat that consumes you....

Okay, probably just restating what some have already said but ... If you are in shape but not from weight training, you WILL get sore when you start lifting. If you are a weight lifter with good legs but don't run and then decide to throw sprints in for a change, you will get sore. Almost any change in routine might cause muscle soreness. It's happens but will get less and less. The soreness in not lactic acid build-up (that happens while working out) but more likely from small tears. I hate when I stop working out and start again because I know I will go through the "painful" part for a couple weeks. Heavy weight (this is relative) with few reps bulks up (at least that's how it worked for me) .. lighter weight with higher reps should define. Hmm .. I need to start again (riding and lifting) since it has been a couple years.