Training & Nutrition - Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA), body composition, and my search for truth

Hello,

I am 6' 175 male, 20 years old. My body fat is roughly 15% and I want to bring it down. I am down from 215 or so since I started working out and dieting. I am no longer dieting, and my weight has been the same for about 2 or 3 months now. I want to get down about 10 pounds but I really want to lose fat instead of destroying my muscles, or even maintain weight and lose fat.

I work in a health food store and more or less feel like a lot of the stuff I stock is snake oil. I take just a couple things (a multi, octacosanol, a special formula made by my boss, and a protein recovery drink) and i was wondering if anyone had heard of CLA. It is touted as a supplement that has the ability to lower body fat and increase lean muscle mass as well as a host of other benefits, inluding anti-cancer effects. Apparently it is a fatty acid that is lacking in our diet since it comes from grass fed beef, and most beef is grain fed now.

Some swedish study and a few other studies have shown that it does what it says it does. I have read the swedish study and the sample size was small, but they claimed there was a significant decrease in body fat among the 20 people. The test was double blind, etc, just small. The studies show that (of course) in conjunction with a healthy diet and moderate exericise your body fat can be significantly lowered. They also gave mice 50 times the equivalent recommended dose for human consumption and they mice were later autopsied and showed no signs of toxicity. Some mice also showed tumor shrinkage. There are, however, very few studies on it.

Besides all of these things, it sounds like CLA is just plain good for you, so here I am, getting sold on health food, which I just called snake oil.

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

I read the study and hear the same thing. Unfortunately, you have to take a lot of it for it to work (when it does work), and that stuff doesn't come cheap. You buy a bottle, pay 20- 30 bucks for a 10 day supply, and it may take 5- 6 weeks before you even start to see the effects. It really doesn't seem worth it.

Koffee

i haven't looked at the study, but wouldn't it be more cost effective to just eat grass-fed beef on a regular basis? it's findable at places like whole foods.

...I work in a health food store and more or less feel like a lot of the stuff I stock is snake oil....

You already know the answer.

well... i have taken it and did not notice much of a difference... but i did suffer from one of the side effects.. it did bloat me up.. so i quit taking it...
The only way i have lost body fat was to stick to fruits, chicken and veggies... religiously...

How about just the grass itself? Wheat grass. And for fatty acids, I think you're referring to Omega fats, omega 6? You can find that in flaxseed products.

Does flax seed contain CLA, I thought that I heard that it is a good source of CLA, but I am not quite sure.

Most CLA is manufactured from safflower oil. I get a good discount, I can get the stuff for nearly cost. 180 caps from NOW at 3 a day provides 2.4 mg of CLA, some studies suggest 3.4 mg if I remember correctly, which is 4-5 a day I suppose. I am thinking about trying it when good weather starts so I can get out and ride.

About the CLA. let's say you take it and it works. What happens when you quit taking it? I suppose you eventually go back to where you were before? Does that seem worthwhile to you, to spend a lot of money and then be right back where you started?

Isn't 175 a good weight for your height? Maybe you want to improve your body composition by gaining more muscle rather than just losing fat? If so, that's where your effort should go.

How about just the grass itself? Wheat grass. And for fatty acids, I think you're referring to Omega fats, omega 6? You can find that in flaxseed products.


CLA is an omega 6 fatty acid. Flax seed is an omega 3 fatty acid.

Koffee

About the CLA. let's say you take it and it works. What happens when you quit taking it? I suppose you eventually go back to where you were before? Does that seem worthwhile to you, to spend a lot of money and then be right back where you started?

Isn't 175 a good weight for your height? Maybe you want to improve your body composition by gaining more muscle rather than just losing fat? If so, that's where your effort should go.

Ok, here is the rundown on the study from what I remember. The study suggests that what you said is not true, which is what I am also hoping to find out for myself. Supposedly their is no significant weight loss with CLA, rather there is just a fat loss and a tendency to pack on muscle instead of fat.

Ok, here is the rundown on the study from what I remember. The study suggests that what you said is not true, which is what I am also hoping to find out for myself. Supposedly their is no significant weight loss with CLA, rather there is just a fat loss and a tendency to pack on muscle instead of fat.
I don't know of any supplement that causes a permanent change in the body, even after you quit taking it. What makes CLA diferent?

Also don't most people already get an abundance of Omega 6 FAs in their diet? I know Andrew Weil, for one, encourages people to eat less of the Omega 6 and more of the Omega 3.

"If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

I agree, even dieting does not make a permanent change to the body. It is all about good nutrition. My point was that the study suggests that stopping the CLA is not correlated with fat gain as long as you maintain good dietary/exercise habits. It is not like coming off of steriods when your muscles turn to mush and you get fat.

Gotcha. Thanks!

exercise, exercise, exercise...........then work on diet, lots of exercise hides a multitude of dietary sins

there's no free lunch, eating is easy, exercise isnt, guess which is more effective?

I think you will find, barring steroids, HGH, and EPO, most "atheletes" eat a pretty normal and natural diet, as much as possible in this day and age of genetically modified foods and livestock pumped up with all sorts of chemicals LOL. Veggies and grains are usually pretty safe, and getting enough protein is rarely a problem for most people.

Yeah, I know. I am just looking to see if anyone has experience with the product. Trust me, I know there is no free lunch. I work in a health food store with a boss who cures cancer all the time and just takes iodine when she wants to lose weight (neither of which are true). I am all too familiar with "free lunch" which is what most people come in looking for. Trust me, I am not going to quit riding or eating well, just doing some research, and I think I may embark on a human study.

Colin

CLA is junk. Its just a trans fatty acid.

The real thing is the only way to go. IE, eat grass fed beef! I certainly do and its great stuff. If CLA suppliments are made from Sunflower oil then I would be dubious about its benifit.

Regards, Anthony

eat grass fed beef! ... If CLA suppliments are made from Sunflower oil then I would be dubious about its benifit.
I don't know--the squirrels and blue jays around here seem to be pretty healthy! :)

What is a good source of grass fed beef?

I don't know--the squirrels and blue jays around here seem to be pretty healthy! :)

What is a good source of grass fed beef?

Well since I'm in Australia thats going to be hard for me to answer. Contact your local chapter leader of the Weston A Price Foundation, http://www.westonaprice.org/localchapters/locallist.html

They should know.

Regards, Anthony

http://www.eatwild.com/products/index.html

CLA is an omega 6 fatty acid. Flax seed is an omega 3 fatty acid.

Koffee

I don't have the Canadian data with me now, but flaxseed oil contains both Omega 3 and 6

I don't have the Canadian data with me now, but flaxseed oil contains both Omega 3 and 6

I don't think so. But here's the data to ease your mind about flaxseed. It only has omega-3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaxseed

Koffee

I don't know--the squirrels and blue jays around here seem to be pretty healthy! :)

What is a good source of grass fed beef?

someone mentioned whole foods above, but beware, last i checked their beef is "organic" etc. but NOT grass-fed. I buy my grass fed beef from uswellnessmeats.com. it's kinda pricey but damned good.

I don't know--the squirrels and blue jays around here seem to be pretty healthy! :)

What is a good source of grass fed beef?Just eat the squirrels and jays. :)

Flax is almost as worthless as CLA.

Just get some fish oil.

There is one SURE way to lose fat and gain muscle: exercise.

Eating fat makes you fat. To lose fat, you simply expend more calories than you take in. If you supplement your protein with forms other than meat, then you will lose body fat without losing muscle mass.

HOWEVER, I do not promote a vegetarian diet. I was a vegetarian for more than 5 years, and I can say firsthand it was a CHORE to make sure I got enough of what I needed.

Look, just use some common sense. Eat sensibly and exercise. The weight will come off. Maybe not 20 pounds a week.,..but it WILL come off.

For all the supplements in the stores, and all the miracle pills ever invented, you still cannot cheat the system. Human physiology is VERY efficient. The ONLY absolutely positively proven way to lose weight is to burn more calories than you put in your mouth.

Burning fat for energy is MUCH more efficient from a physiology standpoint that 'burning muscle'. Your body will ONLY resort to leeching off your muscles if it is absolutely necessary. Maintain proper nutrition, and that will almost never happen. The only times it occurs is when your body is lacking in a specific nutrient that it needs, but that you are not feeding it...such as calcium. Calcium deficiency is a PRIME factor in your body "burning muscle for fuel".

Calcium is what blocks the activation site between the actin and myosin fillaments. If you run low due to hard exercise, and you do not replenish your supply, then guess where the calcium comes from? Your bones and muscles.

Again...take a balanced multi, eat sensibly, and exercise and things will work out for you.

Yeah I agree this is a joke- people thinking that can take "designer" trans fatty acids like CLA and omega 3s like flax and thinking they will lose fat and gain lean mass.

Fact- There are essential fatty acids you need (omega 6, linoleic acid) and extra doesn't help. That includes taking "flax" and other stuff.

Flax is a waste because fish oil fulfills the omega 3 requirement at far lower doses.

well...any 'wasted' fats are stored as just that...fat.

Or, you get a rather nasty poop if you ingest WAY too much..lol

Well, I just started taking the CLA today. I will report back in 6-8 weeks with my results.

Here is my plan. Eat a slightly lower calorie diet. The rain might be clearing up one of these weeks, and I have been riding more consistently. I am planning to try and ride at least 3 times a week if possible. I am not doing anything drastic nor am I expecting anything drastic. My supplements are a multivitamin/mineral, octacosanol (10mg), and CLA(3.8g).

My goals are for this season:

Drop 10 pounds
Lose body fat
Ride a lot

That puts me at 6'0, 165 pounds, less chub around the belly, and lots of fun.

I know that I am not doing a scientific study on the CLA, but I just want to see what happens. Either nothing or something! All in all, it was cheap for me since I work in a health food store :)

CLA is just going to screw you up. I would not load up on trans fatty acids if I were you.

45 calories a day...

???

Its not a trans fat anyway, it is a polyunsaturated fat, like any vegetable oil.

Its not a trans fat anyway, it is a polyunsaturated fat, like any vegetable oil.

It is a trans fat. There are two isomers which are the "actives" : 9,11 and 10,12 which are both trans fats.

Ok, I read something else last night that corroborates what you are saying. However, I am not really concerned about it for now. I am giving it 6 weeks, maybe 8 depending upon any results I have. I am also going to start drinking green tea (although my dragon well tea is running out... nooo!) every day and taking a supplement of ECGc tomorrow. Looks like really great stuff.

Ok, I read something else last night that corroborates what you are saying. However, I am not really concerned about it for now. I am giving it 6 weeks, maybe 8 depending upon any results I have. I am also going to start drinking green tea (although my dragon well tea is running out... nooo!) every day and taking a supplement of ECGc tomorrow. Looks like really great stuff.
If you change all that stuff at the same time, you won't know which one made a difference.

I know I wont know what does what, so I am not doing any conclusive tests. I don't really care, I am not a science project. I am not subscribing to this for the rest of my life, just for the next 6-8 weeks. I will never know what does it. If I really wanted to study the CLA I would need to eat a strictly measured diet, do the exact same things every single day without fail, not get sick, etc. It would be rather difficult. I am just trying something for fun (and for free) before the season kicks into full swing.

Hello everyone. I am here with the much awaited update regarding CLA as a supplement to aid fat loss and increase muscle mass. I stopped taking it yesterday after 8 weeks on it. I was consistent every day. I did not miss a single day, and my plan did not change at all from the previously stated plan.

I took NOW Brand CLA at 4 gm per day every morning after breakfast. This amounted to 5 capsules of the stuff.

Now you can stop holding your breath!

At the beginning of my "study" (which is wholly unscientific and uncontrolled) I was at 17% body fat as determined by the military method (I am 72" tall, Waist: 33.5", Neck 14.5"). I just measured myself a few minutes ago. I now come it at 14% bodyfat, determined by the same method (Height: 72"; Waist: 32"; neck 14.5"). At the beginning and end of the "study", my weight was 175 pounds.

Every morning with breakfast I took 5 caps CLA, 2 caps of 200 mg EGCg from NOW, 2 caps NOW Special Two daily multi, and one cap octacosanol (which seems more or less worthless- I stopped this too). I ate regularly and did not worry much about my daily intake of food. I excercised roughly 3 times a week, and have in the last week started mixing running into my riding (due to time constraints).

The CLA was somewhat nasty. CLA burps are not pleasant, and if I didn't eat enough food I found myself with a mildly upset stomach (which was relieved by eating). They are large black gel caps that taste very bad.

Overall I felt very good while taking these things. I don't mean to imply that the CLA was the cause of this overall feeling of health and increased energy, but I didn't feel any ill effects at all. My athletic performance has exceeded that of the last season when I was at my peak, and it has been a long, wet winter.

Since I stopped the CLA I picked up some Health From The Sun Total EFA and have added that to my supplements. Over the summer, I hope to lower my bodyfat from 14% to 10% or so and have my abs show. I will be doing lots of riding and running and I am planning to start lifting some weights next week.

I am not dissatisfied with the CLA, however, I really can't draw any conclusions :)

-Colin

Wow, I am surprised no one is interested in this.

Wow, I am surprised no one is interested in this.
I think most people don't believe the CLA had anything to do with your weight shift, including me. You changed many things, including riding a lot more. That normally translates into more muscle and less fat. Heck, many studies show that people lose weight on a placebo.

The last thing a person needs to become more healthy, is a trans fat. They couldn't pay me to add that to my diet. I make a concerted effeort everyday to make sure I avoid such things.

By the way, I too have made some changes to lose that last 10 lbs. I added more saturated fats to my diet, and have cut back on carbohydrates. This change has greatly decreased my hunger, allowing me to eat much less during the day. There are lots of ways to lose weight. The key is, can you do this for the rest of your life and feel comfortable with it. If not, it's a waste of time and money.

Hello,

I am 6' 175 male, 20 years old. My body fat is roughly 15% and I want to bring it down.


Why would you want to mess around with
success? You have a real low BMI now, why
mess with that?

As a 5'6" fellow who once weighed 240 lbs
and now weighs 153 and is fitter at 55 than
any other time in his life, I can't see messing
with success. I personally don't think you
should either.

I believe in good nutrition and I eat out of
a blender and take supplements too, but the
basis of my diet is Whey Protein.

Visit http://www.wheyoflife.org for details
on the many FITNESS and Health benefits
of Whey Protein consumption for atheletes.
Read the IN THE NEWS and the BENEFITS
section for scientific studies of the many
reasons why you might wanna make this
a major part of your diet.

As for CLA, I haven't heard it to be a
miracle cure on the Diet Forums I hang'
out on, and don't remember anyone saynig
they lost weight on it. If it is Omega 6 oil,
I would NOT consume it as they are
considered more UNHEALTHY than
Omega 3s which are what FISH OIL
supplements are.

Just my two cents, but HEY... check out
the website on Whey Protein powder. I
can STRONGLY recommend that stuff. It
keeps me lean, fit and in top physical shape.
And that word comes from a person who
was never here to fore an athelete, but has
found tremendous benefit from the stuff.

Oh yes, I definitely do whey, nearly every day in fact. I just wanted to try it out. I don't blame anyone for not attributing the body comp changes to the CLA. I don't really think or know whether it had anything to do with it at all. Anyway, I am going to finish off my current EFA liquid and switch to something sans omega-6, I am sure I get enough of those during the day as it is.

Regardless, I am happy that I lost the fat. I still don't recommend CLA to my customers since I can't tell whether it works or not, and as others have pointed out, it is a trans-fat.