Commuting - Does how you dress affect cars attitude toward you.

There was a thread in the advocacy column where several posters were of the opinion that the way you dress, affects the way cars treat you. They believe if you dress in racing get up, or are well dressed, then cars will respect you.

Just started commuting to work about 1 mile. I've gone to work a couple of times this week in a suit and tie (sans jacket) and cars still have very little respect or patience for me. About the same respect I get when I ride the same bike dressed in torn shorts and a t-shirt, which is very little.

I know my dad tends to react less then well when he sees bikers in full kit, for some reason riders (especially groups) dressed like racers bug him and he wants to honk at them and be an ass. Other than people giving me strange looks if I'm in full spandex mode (very rare, I don't have the belly for it) I've never noticed good or bad reaction/treatment based on my clothing.

(now if I were better looking I might try less and see what happens...)

If your clothing affects cagers' perspective of you, I think it's only a small part, outweighed by the way you ride. If you ride like you know what you're doing--signalling, stopping for lights, taking the lane assertively, riding smoothly--I think you get a lot more respect whether you're wearing spandex or an oxford shirt.

I believe it has more to do with how you ride, then how you dress. If you're having a lot of trouble maybe check out the VC discussions on the A&S forum and see if some of those bits help. I'm not saying it's the only answer, but being assertive makes a bigger difference than what shirt you are wearing.

It gets better.

If I wear camo then they can't see me

I'm with caloso and Treespeed.

I just saw a guy riding a Walmart MTB wearing a USPS sweatshirt. I didn't know if he was a retro poseur or if he was getting ready to "go postal." He looked more like the latter, but the point is you can't always tell.

Motorists notice me? I thought even with the bright jacket, light, and blinkies they do not actual see me.
Anyhow, as I said in that thread, no.
However, if you were riding nekkid I'm sure they would treat you differently. Probably plenty of accidents trying to avoid the glare of my nasty pale bum. :p

Your not going to get respect from a driver.

To reverse this statement would break logic.

The prerequisite to driving a car is that they don't have respect for others (beings).

My commuting coworker says he gets more respect when he's riding with his trunk/pannier setup than without...

I do ride assertively, but predictable. I ride fast enough that if I were a car going that speed, cagers would never think of honking at them, but I still get honked at. I think the fact that I live in Miami, FL has a lot to do with it.

Sometimes I'll wobble a bit (on purpose) to make motorists acutely aware I'm on two wheels - not four and a ton of steel. :eek:

I've been asked about why I often ride with a bright head light during the day, same idea as daytime running lights. Motorists seem to react well to this.

I agree with SWYZ721's statement.... but, I did read somewhere (psychological theory of road rage?) the idea behind road rage is that drivers don't get visual cues from other drivers, i.e., a driver cuts someone off and speeds away, the other driver doesn't see that the offender hunched his shoulders up and said oops, sorry instead the driver only sees the back of a speeding car. So give motorists visual cues, signal with your hands etc.

Don't ever give in to the urge to let a driver pass you if you think there's not enough room for the two of you. Take up as much space as you need and pedal fast.

All said, some motorists are still just punk ass beotches with hemerroids up their arse who are jealous of you for riding while they must sit their fat lardy arse in a fat lardy cadillac-b-m-w s.u.v. They will do anything to make themselves feel better including proving that they can drive 35+mph uphill and you can't. There's no logic to it. Pull up right next to them at the next stop light and laugh.

I think the fact that I live in Miami, FL has a lot to do with it.

I def agree with that

Yes and Yes.

The mullet and the cig will not help you ...

I do ride assertively, but predictable. I ride fast enough that if I were a car going that speed, cagers would never think of honking at them, but I still get honked at. I think the fact that I live in Miami, FL has a lot to do with it.

There is very little opportunities to ride anywhere in Miami .... or at least I could not see a feasible route to go anywhere.

Regardles ... I got a friend that does the bike thing from Fort Lauderdale to Sunny Isles in the daytime ... in the summer .... on a MTB .... without a shirt .... crazy b@st@rd :eek:

When I ride my "bum bike" and dress in old t-shirts, ratty shorts and converse low-tops circa 1992 (complete with duct tape) on my daily commute, I do feel like people give me less room and are more inclined to yell. But that could have a lot to do with riding during rush hour. On a Saturday morning when I do my fun ride, drivers should be less stressed and hurried. Or not stressed enough to yell at some fat guy in lycra. It even makes me laugh sometimes. :)

I have done thousands of miles at both dress extremes and in my experience the disrespect shown by cagers is constant.

When I ride my bike with the huge rear baskets, I seem to get less grief from motorists. Go figure.

I do have a shirt from a charity event that is white with "VOLUNTEER" in big, black letters. I guess people feel guilty about giving a volunteer a hard time, because it tends to reduce the number of honks and whatnot.

Having mentioned these, I have to agree with the above posters about how you ride having more effect on how you are treated. Somewhere in this forum, I read something along the lines of, "Ride like an alpha dog, (this is MY lane) and you will be treated as such. Ride like a gutter bunny and you will be eaten alive."

Time of day has the biggest effect on how motorists treat me. As a whole, it is worse in the morning than in the afternoon. I do both the t-shirt and shorts on a fendered MTB with panniers and full spandex kit on a road bike and hassled similarly at similar times of the day. For my commute, the worst time for me to be on the road is right around 8am.

[edit] I knew there was something I was forgetting. The only accesory I've found that increases the patience of passing motorists is my Burley Flat Bed trailer. My guess is that they truly feel sorry for me because only someone without a car would go through all the trouble of pulling a trailer on a bike to take a package to work. For the record, I have 2 cars (both unregistered, only one insured, just in case). [edit]

Rage Hour twice a day in case you missed it the first time.

I haven't found much of a difference based on what I am wearing from drivers. I have found that if I am wearing some amount of kit when I go in to the grocery store/bank/wherever I get a better reaction than if I just go in looking sweaty without a reason.

I get the most respect by:
1) Not wearing the 'jester costume'. Sorry guys, but before I was a cyclist, I was a cager. Cagers hate the jester costume. In conversations with non-cyclists about bikes - it is the #1 factor in dis-respecting cyclists. Just too dorky to understand. I do, and you do, but they don't.
2) Along with above, avoiding dark clothing, even in daylight. I wear an orange surveyors vest, like a flagger. Definitely results in greater passing clearance.
3) I take the lane at stop lights and 4-ways when there is no bike lane, using clear hand sigs.
4) I wait my turn when there is no bike lane. This is a huge aggravation factor with cagers and it hurts us all when some hyper-Lance-alike passes on the right to get to the front. Cagers see this as cutting in.
5) Sometimes, I have to wait in front but off to the right. Cagers usually are timid about encroaching next to me. I wave them up and sometimes talk to them, usually about the metal detectors near the stop line that make the lights kick into sequence. It makes cagers feel helpful to make the light go green.
6) I make unambiguous eye contact with cagers near me, especially when stopped at a light, then I look at their turn indicators.
7) I use an old MSR helmet (Mountain Safety Research). It looks like an Israeli Commando helmet and my wife says it's intimidating and reminds her of a riot-cop, even tho they don't wear anything like it. Very dark glasses. When it's warm, I wear a sleeveless T under the vest. I have very muscular arms. 'nuf said about that.

There was a thread in the advocacy column where several posters were of the opinion that the way you dress, affects the way cars treat you. They believe if you dress in racing get up, or are well dressed, then cars will respect you.

I think your more likely to get something thrown at you in a full racing get up. I get the most repect when I wear my day glo construction vests.

I haven't found much of a difference based on what I am wearing from drivers. I have found that if I am wearing some amount of kit when I go in to the grocery store/bank/wherever I get a better reaction than if I just go in looking sweaty without a reason.

Excellent observation. I commute to work by bike and in the afternoon I ride to pick my daughter up at daycare and then we walk 2 blocks home, rolling my bike alongside us. My wife drops her off in the mornings. After 9 months I still get members of the day care staff and parents asking me why I'm red and sweaty. I suppose them asking is better than the ones who look at me, grip their kid tighter and speed walk away while avoiding eye contact.

I try to work the bike into conversation: "Nice weather for riding today...Sure beats sitting in traffic...Yes, it's a bike helmet and not something prescribed by my doctor." I swear most of the other parents in their Escadades and Hummers must assume I'm a nutbag. On days when I wear more bike-specific clothing i get more smiles and nicer comments.

JCM's points 1-5 are great. It's not professional dress as reasonable dress. I would add to that you get more room and respect which you have lights on in twilight and foggy conditions.

I haven't worn spandex yet, but just high visibility windbreaker. Nothing ticks off a motorist like a lance wantabee who is moving slow.

+10 points on flagger vest - they react instinctevily towards that colour.
-5 spandex shorts .... oh well ... they are just jelaous :p
+5 proper helmet -
+5 dressier shirt than cycling jersey
+20 deer on shoulders - that actually happened - big kudos
+5 neat luggage - no grocery bags hanging on your bullhorns - no cardborard boxes.
-+1,000 points if you have a double trailer like the homeless man that is on Sunset Boulevard @ Vermont Avenue in Los Angeles ... close to the Scientology Church.

I think one of the issues around here is that many of the roadies that dress like pros are jerks and piss everyone off. I believe that many of them did not recieve enough attention when they were 5 year olds, and are trying desperately to get everyone to look at how cool they are. Looking like you belong to that club only attracts the attention of the immature and the road raging. And from interacting with many of these nitwits who think they own the road and are better than everyone else, I have no desire to be affiliated with them either.

I wear cycling undies with normal shorts, or MTB shorts and MTB shoes with a t-shirt on top. I ride like a participant in traffic instead of the King of the Road, and rarely have any probelms with intentional mischief. The safety vest is a good idea, I need to pick one up.

I think a much bigger issue is people that never see, never look, are paying way too little attention to the road, don't have a clue what the rules of driving are, and drive way too fast. When they run over you, they have no idea what you're wearing.

Az

I get more respect especially from bus drivers on those days I commute to work on my tour bike with a pannier hanging on its side than when I'm on my fixed gear with a bag on my back...

many of the roadies that dress like pros are jerks and piss everyone off...
Ok, some of the roadies that dress like pros are jerks but some of the roadies "that dress like pros" are actually out to ride 60-120 miles in one shot. They might be wearing a club jersey/shorts. I think the ratio of people who are jerks and piss everyone off is about the same in any given group be it roadies, cagers, or mtb. shorts wearing dudes Mr AZ B.

That said, there's lots of decent bike clothes available without team logos. I get a good laugh when if I see someone riding a Cervelo wearing a USPS skinsuit while huffing and puffing to maintain a wobbly 15mph on a flat. Wear what's comfortable. I agree about the orange bib, and/or a big reflective safety triangle even though I don't have one... yet. Motorists understand these sorts of visual cues.

For commuting it is a different story. If you're really really paranoid (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(g4ftpr55yhvvnyjqda05ew45)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=89782), I think there's a snap-off orange flag (often used on recumbent bikes and trailers) that you can use. :) Maybe this can help you get started riding in traffic until you get too annoyed to use it any more. Here's a better one, it's called the flash flag (http://nordicgroup.us/s78/flags.html).

My only wish it that driver's would notice there is an outside world beyond the windshield. The other day for example, a car buzzed me wicked close. I didn't get furious but wanted to make a point, so I got right on their bumper and followed them into downtown. This is city traffic so I had them the entire way, 6 inches behind the bumper peering into the back window glaring at the mirror. Not once in 15 minutes did the driver so much as look in the rearview. When I drive my eyes are a constant back and forth over all my mirrors. You can dress up the UNLV mascot to ride if you want it's not going to make a lick of difference.

AND yes I agree that if you are going out on the road all kitted up, you had better ride like you should be kitted up.

I don't think it's what cyclists wear at all. Sometimes it's how they bike (other times it's how crabby or selfish a driver is but that's another story).

I'm a bike commuter myself and I was surprised at my response to a cyclist the other day when I drove in to work. We have a two-lane bridge on the way to work, and a sidewalk on the side separated by a concrete barrier. Most cyclists use the sidewalk because there's no shoulder at all on the bridge.

But a bike commuter the other day rode on the bridge, about 8 mph, and I was stuck behind him. I was furious! What's the point when there's an 8-foot wide sidewalk for him. If someone can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it. And I'm a bike commuter, so I should be understanding -- but I wasn't!

I could see if his reasoning was that he's riding to "maintain a lane like a car" but then he came up to some orange barrels farther on ahead, and weaved right through them. So he was following car traffic laws but only when he wanted to.

can't see why he'd do that..... hell even I'd take the big sidewalk ..on a bridge? hell ya

I'd have taken the lane on that bridge.

I don't ride on sidewalks, at least I haven't since my dad took off my training wheels and was running along holding the seat.

Sidewalks are for pedestrians. Cyclists are not pedestrians. Therefore cyclists should not be on sidewalks. Q.E.D.

Is the lateral access lane on a bridge a sidewalk? If so, why's it 8 feet wide? Sounds like you could get a car down it if you really had to. :D My bridge experiences from montreal involve wet metal grate surface over the entire bridge. Hellish ....in this instance only....gimme the side.

Once that I know of. All my bike spandex was grubby so I went on a training ride in an old dark red ankle length aerobics leotard. Back when I was barely 180 lb. And when my hair was well past shoulder length.
In my helmet mirror I saw a guy pull up behind me in a convertable. Slowly he pulled even with me. The moment he could see the stubble, the adams' apple, and the ---- on the saddle horn he burned rubber away from there. My wife and I still :D about it.

Good from far but far from good?...... damn that's funny man...... AHHHHHH IT'S a GUY!!!!! lol

I find that it helps to look fast. Motorists have a lot of trouble judging the speed of cyclists, and they often have just a split second to assess a situation. If you're moving along at 15mph, you'll have fewer close calls if look like you could be going 25 than if you look like you might be going 5.

I also find that bright lights get you a lot more space at night. In fact, I feel more comfortable at night with my lights than I do during the day.

This only helps with drivers who have cognition problems recognizing cyclists and reacting properly. Jerks will be jerks.

Hi, I'm a new guy.

oejack951 wrote that "Time of day has the biggest effect on how motorists treat me" and I couldn't agree more. I commute four to five days a week, and have set up with my job that I can arrive and leave early. I get there at about 7:30 a.m. and leave at around 4 p.m. Makes a WORLD of difference.

As far as sidewalks go, I tend to ride in the bike lane and follow the rules of the road, BUT there is one point on my commute where I gladly take the opposing sidewalk b/c there is no bike lane, the shoulder is narrow (read: nonexistent), it's an uphill RH sweeper, and there is a 10-foot-high shrub that goes straight up from the curb for the entire length of that hill. Oh yeah, people cruise 50 mph in F150s and utes on it, too. No thanks, I'll be a dork and go sidewalk.

And you know what? I hate it. It's sketchy as he11. (However, in the end, it's still not as risky as that blind, fast sweeper.) Cagers don't expect bikes on the sidewalk. Especially sleepy cagers pulling out of gas stations/quickie marts. I really have to keep my head on a swivel, yell to get their attention, the whole bit. I'd much rather be in a nice, safe bike lane where motorists expect me to be. Bottom line: cagers are creatures of habit and can only cope with what they expect.

Wear visible clothes, be aware of your surroundings, learn to anticipate cager behavior, and be predictable.

My commuting coworker says he gets more respect when he's riding with his trunk/pannier setup than without...
+1
Always see more room to the left when I have a pannier on that side.

I have to agree with the above posters about how you ride having more effect on how you are treated. Somewhere in this forum, I read something along the lines of, "Ride like an alpha dog, (this is MY lane) and you will be treated as such. Ride like a gutter bunny and you will be eaten alive."
+1

I have a reflective mesh vest too. bright yellow and I always at least wear that.

Damn straight it's my lane as it's only have my blood on it if **** happens.
I tell drivers that when we do have those rare wtf conversations. It has on occasion brought perspective to the driver.

Hmmm...well I guess that I am one of the guys who is still getting better results when I ride looking like I know what I am doing, i.e. more along the lines of cyling gear than not. I still think that the more I look like a I have my shiznit together, the more that the cars in my area defer and work with me. I think that a lot of it comes down to when I look like someone who can go fast on a bike, and then do, cars give me the respect that at least I am out there knowing what I am doing. When I go out in cut-offs and a t-shirt and look like I am just another kid on the way to and from school, I get buzzed and looked through all the time.

When I go out in baggies and a jersey, I get treated most times just like another car. I ride a hybrid though, and find that that helps a lot too. I can ride the same routes on my roadie in my roadie gear and it is like I have a 'go ahead and eff with me' sign on my back. I'm not saying that it is like that everywhere, but it definitely is around my neck of the woods, and consistently so.

The other thing that I definitely am noticing though is that I get most of the respect by going fast, taking the lane unless I am moving over to allow a pass and communicating a lot with the other folks on the road. There aren't any bike lanes in my town but there are designated bike routes which are widened to make it easier for cars to work around you. When I don't make them though and mostly just go the same speed that they do, it likely is making more of a difference overall than what I wear.

I guess I am lucky to live where I live ... I get a lot of room in my route.

Again "lots" is relative.

JCM's points 1-5 are great. It's not professional dress as reasonable dress. I would add to that you get more room and respect which you have lights on in twilight and foggy conditions.

I haven't worn spandex yet, but just high visibility windbreaker. Nothing ticks off a motorist like a lance wantabee who is moving slow.

Right, and we do move slow, no matter what. The snide remarks about the 'costume' go like this: "Why doesn't he ride over there? He's blocking traffic! What? Does he think he's fast in that clown suit?"

Bottom line: American culture (an oximoron) does not respect cyclists. We have never had a large cycling community in this country for alot of reasons. Most cagers can be converted one at a time, especially at stops. Remember that they are insulated from each other, and you, inside that rolling entertainment center. Don't be the Stealth Biker who cuts to the front. Look like you belong in street traffic instead of in a velodrome.

Wearing bright ANSI colors (read: alertshirts or safety vests) definitely seems to make a difference. My theory is it's because drivers are already looking for those colors because construction areas and emergency vehicles use them.

Other than that the only really big difference I've noticed is I get better VEHICLE BEHAVIOR from drivers when I ride VC (I still get about the same number of honks and yells, but they pass with more room and don't endanger me much).

One other thing I've noticed is it's extremely rarely that I am treated badly by professional truck drivers. Usually it's only people in cars. I've held up trucks on a 45-mph one-lane for half a mile and not gotten a single honk, or crowding, or anything. I dunno if they're more in the "I'm getting paid for sitting here" mood or if they're more sensitive to traffic rules / infractions (since tickets can lose them their job).

Here is a thought (and perhaps it makes me sound like a jerk): Maybe drivers don't give me more respect when I put on the team kit, but I turn into Mr Hyde and am less likely to care what they think. It really seems to be true. When I am in my sexy suit, I ride like a bat out of he((. I take the lane when I want it and if they won't give it to me I will simply shoot up the middle of two lanes. Only in my sexy suit will I feel the piss and vinegar to get behind a jeep and draft at 30-something for a while.

It may not be the right thing to do, but something about the chemistry between my fast bike and my fast clothes turn me into a very aggressive/assertive rider. Maybe it just feels like they give me more space because I am looking for excitement and not safety when I am in speed mode. I am not a jerk rider, but I definitely ride differently and play by different rules on my fast days than on my normal commutes.

Once that I know of. All my bike spandex was grubby so I went on a training ride in an old dark red ankle length aerobics leotard.


a leotard?...OK....LOL <snicker>

Here is a thought (and perhaps it makes me sound like a jerk): Maybe drivers don't give me more respect when I put on the team kit, but I turn into Mr Hyde and am less likely to care what they think. It really seems to be true. When I am in my sexy suit, I ride like a bat out of he((. I take the lane when I want it and if they won't give it to me I will simply shoot up the middle of two lanes. Only in my sexy suit will I feel the piss and vinegar to get behind a jeep and draft at 30-something for a while.

It may not be the right thing to do, but something about the chemistry between my fast bike and my fast clothes turn me into a very aggressive/assertive rider. Maybe it just feels like they give me more space because I am looking for excitement and not safety when I am in speed mode. I am not a jerk rider, but I definitely ride differently and play by different rules on my fast days than on my normal commutes.


I don't think it makes you sound like a jerk. I have sort of the opposite reaction. A lot of times when I'm in commute mode and I'm wearing my office clothes, it's a lot of fun to hit the gas, maybe draft a minivan. They're thinking, OMG that guy in a tie and slacks is going 30mph!

*images of Microsoft's Driving the desk commercial*
I STILL want that desk, even if it's for one drive into downtown during rush hour.

Who knows?

Us humans have this ability to imagine the most fanciful ideas of what others think about us often based on our own self image and our self conscious attempt at interpreting other peoples thoughts based on our preception of their actions or expressions.

Al

One other thing I've noticed is it's extremely rarely that I am treated badly by professional truck drivers. Usually it's only people in cars. I've held up trucks on a 45-mph one-lane for half a mile and not gotten a single honk, or crowding, or anything. I dunno if they're more in the "I'm getting paid for sitting here" mood or if they're more sensitive to traffic rules / infractions (since tickets can lose them their job).

I think real (i.e. long-haul) truckers sympathize because they know what it's like to be the slow vehicle holding everyone up. I find that local delivery trucks and vans are among the worst, as their daily life is a no-holds-barred struggle against city traffic, where there is no pity and no shame. Metro buses I put in the same category.

I would think that Winnebago drivers would be more like long-haul truckers, considering the havoc they wreak on traffic, but they're not. I chock that up to the fact that most RV drivers are essentially unqualified to be driving their rigs. Fortunately, I don't think I have seen a single one in downtown DC since 9/11, even though they used to be abundant in tourist season. I guess some security measures are worthwhile!

On my commute route I see riders dressed in everything from full team kits to cut-offs and a t-shirt.
It seems that those who look like commuters (bright clothes, backpack or panniers, lights, etc) get more respect than those in team kits or cut-offs. And respect is something that most cyclists don't get in Atlanta.
I think most motorists think the team kit folks are the lawbreakers (running stop signs/lights, etc) and those in the cut-offs don't know what they're doing other than having a good time riding, so motorists don't cut them much slack.

If you look like a commuter it seems that some motorists will give you break and not shoot past you like a rocket with 2" clearance. They'll be a little more patient.
Just my two cents.