Advocacy & Safety - Where do you feel safest while cycling?

Ok, I'm a bit of a newbie to these forums, and I'm not setting up this poll with the intentions of tricking anyone into anything or being an ass.

It seems like there are a lot of folks here with a lot of different thoughts about how bikes should be accomadated, and a lot of different thoughts about what would make bicycling safer. I want to get a feel for where people feel safe right now on their bikes.

I voted "other", simply because I can't make a blanket statement about safety based on the type of roadway - there are too many other factors, and safety is seldom the determining factor for me in road selection.

I voted "Wide roadways", but "Roadways with bike lanes (clean and adequate width)" are essentially the same thing - just an extra white line painted on the ground. I feel about equally safe on both.

I also felt pretty safe on shoulders, but only when I could see every driveway or such coming up. One of my most relaxed trips was actually on a high-speed highway with 8-foot shoulders and entrance ramps readily visible.

I also would feel safe if the road is just low-traffic: if it gets three cars per hour, the width doesn't make as much of a difference. :)

I voted "other", simply because I can't make a blanket statement about safety based on the type of roadway - there are too many other factors, and safety is seldom the determining factor for me in road selection.
Same
"Safest" would be to stay in my own driveway, or not riding at all.
By choosing to ride I choose to accept some degree of risk.
I'll sometimes pick the "safer" road, but "safest" does not factor at all in my riding. I have a siding threshold of safety which determines my comfort level and degree of awareness / vigilance. As I percieve the road to be less safe, I become more vigilant to maintain my level of comfort. If I can't be more vigilant, and my comfort level exceeds a certain point, I get off that road and find another route.

I ride most types of terrain: country road, suburban road, city street, highway shoulder, bike lane, MUP, gravel path, single track dirt, sometimes open field with no track at all, and that might all be on the same ride. I can feel "safe" on any of them, but "safest" takes the issue out of the context of the situation.

I voted other as well as it depends on various conditions. Such as today I was coming off the highway and the road goes into 4 lanes (2 each way) with no shoulder for about 1/8th a mile. I took the far right lane and peddled my heart out until I made my turn at the signal and got onto the now available and quite wide shoulder.

This poll is misleading or it's just my lack of attention. No, it's biased by misleading people with lack of attention :D (just kidding). I selected "Any roadway regardless of traffic/width/speed limit" because rightaway I interpreted the question as "where do you feel confident riding". (sorry, lack of attention) Can't correct it now.

Where do I feel safest while cycling? Answer is other: that's in the newly paved mile long dead end street in front of my house. That's where my four year old can ride with minimum supervision and one of the safest place to ride in the world :)

Second to that, I would select "slow roadways". I just can't imagine anyone feeling safer on any roadway than a slow roadway. :eek: Explain. (what about negociating a left turn on a four-lane roadway passed the crest of a hill, speed limit = 55. ;) ).

Actually my safest is a slow roadway with a wide shoulder. ;)

Different cities have different driving dynamics, different attitudes both towards driving and cycling and, of course, different cycling conditions so it's difficult to say what is safer with any sense of absolute finality. Here in Toronto there are roads with bike lanes I am very comfortable with: they have wide lanes for motorists and wide lanes (or at least addequate) for cyclists. There are other bike lanes that are nothing short of treahcerous. But there are also non-bike-lane avenues I am pretty comfortable riding on as well. Of course bike paths that don't take a cyclist too far off the main thoroughfare seem safer and faster (not to mention more attractive) but only if they are relatively convenient to the areas cyclists want to go. Ultimately, in a perfect world, there would be nice wide tree-lined bike-only lanes with few hills and car traffic (if there has to be any at all) situated far away so I don't have to breathe the exhaust. And every day would be sunny and 72 degrees (25c). :)

This poll is misleading or it's just my lack of attention. No, it's biased by misleading people with lack of attention :D (just kidding). I selected "Any roadway regardless of traffic/width/speed limit" because rightaway I interpreted the question as "where do you feel confident riding". (sorry, lack of attention) Can't correct it now.

Where do I feel safest while cycling? Answer is other: that's in the newly paved mile long dead end street in front of my house. That's where my four year old can ride with minimum supervision and one of the safest place to ride in the world :)

Second to that, I would select "slow roadways". I just can't imagine anyone feeling safer on any roadway than a slow roadway. :eek: Explain. (what about negociating a left turn on a four-lane roadway passed the crest of a hill, speed limit = 55. ;) ).

Actually my safest is a slow roadway with a wide shoulder. ;)

I dunno, there are slow roads with narrow lanes (for instance one I have to take to school) that I have more trouble with than faster roads with wide lanes, so I do think it is possible to feel safer on a fast road than a slow one, and I'm by no means a speed demon, my avg speed is around 15.

This poll isn't intended to be some kind of scientific study, and I don't expect that everyone will find their perfect answer among the options I gave as I am limited by the number of options I can provide and my own personal biases at the time I made the poll. I just wanted to get some thoughts about what makes a safe road, without any hidden agenda to put people on edge.

EnigManiac, I agree, different cities (and different areas within a city) can have wildly different driving dynamics, and wildly different motorist attitudes. My hope is that people will post about how those dynamics affect their answer.

I dunno, there are slow roads with narrow lanes (for instance one I have to take to school) that I have more trouble with than faster roads with wide lanes, so I do think it is possible to feel safer on a fast road than a slow one, and I'm by no means a speed demon, my avg speed is around 15.

Yes, I agree too when you throw in different traffic density.

Generally, I prefer narrow outside lanes on roads with at least two other lanes that cars can use to pass me.

I feel safest on a bike path. NOTE: a bike path is not the same thing as a multi-user path.

I feel next safest on a quiet street. Not necessarily a slow street, but a quiet one. There are lots of 25mph residential streets around here where I swear that's where they filmed those drivers' training simulator movies. So quiet is the operative term.

Next safest is any road with a good bike lane or shoulder that has no driveways or intersections.

From there on, the more intersections, driveways, and parked cars the less safe I feel because now there is traffic crossing your path from all directions.

Worst is narrow, high-speed, busy, windy, hilly roads with no shoulder and possibly even a curb to trap you inside. Also: busy roads with lots of parked cars, hotels, alleys, bouncing balls appearing out of nowhere, people who are always late for something, tourists who are lost and photography students (they tend to set up their cameras and stop to take pictures just about anywhere.)

Downtown in my "office" where there's 5 lane one ways and lots of traffic, why? Cause if your a strong rider you have all the speed and maneuverability advantages over the cars. Bike riders own downtown :)

I really believe that most riders, including myself, feel more confident (safer) on the type of roads they're most accustomed to.

I don't think good statistics exist to show us which roads are safest. Our judgments about safety are subjective. That's why I prefer to talk about where I feel "confident" instead of where I feel "safe."

For me, it's been useful to ride on streets where I don't feel as confident, so as to build up my confidence. For example, I've been riding more on country roads and those "fancy" new suburban streetss, where I feel less confident, as well as the comfortable grid streets near my home in the inner city.

i feel most comfortable on city streets in traffic bc its usually slow and they, for the most part, expect you. i can navigate it better. especially one ways. in the burbs people can wind up their engines a bit so they become worse.

photography students (they tend to set up their cameras and stop to take pictures just about anywhere.)
We have a community college that teaches road surveying. Those students would really drive you crazy!

Looking back on the posts, I'm reading a lot of support for my contention that people feel safest (most confident) wherever they are most accustomed to riding.

Confidence = competence = custom

The reason I voted for 'slow road' is because that is the most important factor for me. Certainly number of lanes, width, etc. can be a factor and can under the right combination of conditions be more important than speed, but if all roads were reduced in speed where I live that would make them safer to cycle (and to motor) on.

Also speed differential becomes the most important factor not when crusing along in BL, right side of WOL or center of NOL, but when negotating left merges.

I ride 95% 45mph posted roads, some with BL, some with WOL some NOL. If the posted (and actual) speed was reduced by 10mph that would be improve safety for each of those layouts and would be more important for safety than changing lane width/configuration while keeping speeds the same.

We argue endlessly about how the road lanes should be designed for safer cycling when I believe the most impact to safety would be first strict enforcement of speed limits and secondly reduction of speed limits when above 30-35mph.

Al

Safest place to ride for me is the segregated cycleway like we have here stretching the length of the M7 motorway. You can ride as fast as you like in your own 14ft wide lane separated from the motorway by a 4 ft high 2 ft thick reinforced concrete wall, and its own overpasses and on-off ramps linking it to 'local' mups and cycleways. I do 40 glorious segregated miles on it every single day of my 60 mile daily commute to/from work.

Too bad this poll lumped the best and safest riding option into "other" either the op is biased or unaware of the better alternatives.

Ok, I'm a bit of a newbie to these forums, and I'm not setting up this poll with the intentions of tricking anyone into anything or being an ass.

It seems like there are a lot of folks here with a lot of different thoughts about how bikes should be accomadated, and a lot of different thoughts about what would make bicycling safer. I want to get a feel for where people feel safe right now on their bikes.

On my trainer... I've fallen asleep while pedalling and suffered no harm. :D

Okay, that was sort of a smartass statement. Sorry.

Seriously though, I did vote "Other" because I feel that a large part of safety is controllable and each situation presents a different possible safety compromise. The biggest thing you need to learn how to ado is assess the risks and then try and manage them. Your choices are simply too broad and in the context of possible situations, too vague/simplistic. There are also other factours that need to be taken into account such as time of day, day of week, season of year, weather conditions, geography (hilly, flat winding road?), type of traffic (downtown/urban, campus, residential, interstate, business route, highway, country road?) and general community acceptance of cyclists amongst a variety of others.

We argue endlessly about how the road lanes should be designed for safer cycling when I believe the most impact to safety would be first strict enforcement of speed limits and secondly reduction of speed limits when above 30-35mph.

Al
When you're right you're right! :)

When I drove, I thought speed limits should be higher to make roads more efficient. Boy was I stupid! Slow those fools down! I hope the time will come when bicycles are valued as traffic calming devices. ;)

When you're right you're right! :)

When I drove, I thought speed limits should be higher to make roads more efficient. Boy was I stupid! Slow those fools down! I hope the time will come when bicycles are valued as traffic calming devices. ;)


While I think lowering the speed limit will increase safety somewhat, I think it's merely curing the injury multiplier and not the root cause. A lot of times, pure speed is not what causes problems but do decrease reaction times with one's ability to handle them. Lateral translation in velocity vector is a bigger issue. In short, it's the inability to maintain a line and lane position that's a bigger issue. An automobile passing by me at 60MPH is no more dangerous to me than one passing at 6MPH. By the same token, a driver who is unable to maintain their line has the possibility of striking me regardless of speed. That said, speed decreases their reaction time when they drift and increases injury potential when they hit. Still, I'd rather not be hit in the first place.

Too bad this poll lumped the best and safest riding option into "other" either the op is biased or unaware of the better alternatives.

I pointed out specifically that the poll options were of course scewed by my own biases. That's pretty much a given in any of these polls. I did not attempt to bias the thread for my own ends however, it is biased simply by what I was able to come up with, and have experience with. A passive bias rather than an active one. The divided roadway option is certainly a good one, but has limited application. It would not work well in most city environments, and that being where I live it was not something I thought of immediately. I definately think that it would be great if something like that were included on major bridges. I remember when I was in high school a cyclist or ped (can't remember which) was killed on one of the local bridges when a car drifted over and pinned him against the side of the bridge.

I do think the speed limit comment is a good one, here in Orlando the speed limits are nuts compared to what I am used to. Even very busy roads with a lot of nearly schools have 40mph+ speed limits. We also have very high rates of pedestrian fatalities and I can't help but feel the two are related, though obviously I cannot say that is true for sure.

Roody I think you have a good point about what we are confident on affecting where we feel safest. I certainly felt *very* unsafe the first few times I rode on the busy roads here with heavy traffic and high speed limits. I am not confident in those places yet, but I'm getting there.

While I think lowering the speed limit will increase safety somewhat, I think it's merely curing the injury multiplier and not the root cause. A lot of times, pure speed is not what causes problems but do decrease reaction times with one's ability to handle them. Lateral translation in velocity vector is a bigger issue. In short, it's the inability to maintain a line and lane position that's a bigger issue. An automobile passing by me at 60MPH is no more dangerous to me than one passing at 6MPH. By the same token, a driver who is unable to maintain their line has the possibility of striking me regardless of speed. That said, speed decreases their reaction time when they drift and increases injury potential when they hit. Still, I'd rather not be hit in the first place.
What you are saying fully supports lowering motor vehicle speeds to increase safety. At lower speeds:
1. Drivers will have more time between first seeing cyclist and needing to react
2. Driver skill to to control lateral motion of vehicle is reduced at lower speed
3. Vehicles are easier to control laterally at lower speeds

Al

I voted other... because to me there are too many variables to even include in a simple poll.

The other thing is in my mind it is all a matter of how wide the road is verses the speed and density of the traffic on the road.

I have ridden narrow country roads with 55MPH traffic that rarely came by, I take the lane in those situations and am quite comfortable, but that same "55MPH" with traffic densely packed and on a multilane road is another story altogether.

While I might ride that situation and take a lane once or twice as it is the only way, I will not be comfortable.

On the other hand add a Bike Lane and ensure that there is no parking along the lane and I'll ride beside 55 MPH dense traffic all day long.

I voted other... because to me there are too many variables to even include in a simple poll.

The other thing is in my mind it is all a matter of how wide the road is verses the speed and density of the traffic on the road.

I have ridden narrow country roads with 55MPH traffic that rarely came by, I take the lane in those situations and am quite comfortable, but that same "55MPH" with traffic densely packed and on a multilane road is another story altogether.

While I might ride that situation and take a lane once or twice as it is the only way, I will not be comfortable.

On the other hand add a Bike Lane and ensure that there is no parking along the lane and I'll ride beside 55 MPH dense traffic all day long.

I voted other... because to me there are too many variables to even include in a simple poll.

The other thing is in my mind it is all a matter of how wide the road is verses the speed and density of the traffic on the road.

I have ridden narrow country roads with 55MPH traffic that rarely came by, I take the lane in those situations and am quite comfortable, but that same "55MPH" with traffic densely packed and on a multilane road is another story altogether.

While I might ride that situation and take a lane once or twice as it is the only way, I will not be comfortable.

On the other hand add a Bike Lane and ensure that there is no parking along the lane and I'll ride beside 55 MPH dense traffic all day long.

I think noisebeam made a very valid statement, in that it often is not the road, but the speed and the way the drivers handle that speed.

I voted "Wide roadways", but "Roadways with bike lanes (clean and adequate width)" are essentially the same thing - just an extra white line painted on the ground. I feel about equally safe on both.

I also felt pretty safe on shoulders, but only when I could see every driveway or such coming up. One of my most relaxed trips was actually on a high-speed highway with 8-foot shoulders and entrance ramps readily visible.

I also would feel safe if the road is just low-traffic: if it gets three cars per hour, the width doesn't make as much of a difference. :)

I'm in totally in sync. with these comments, except I felt equally safe on 2 and 4, and chose bike lanes.

Another vote for other. Some of the safest roads around here are 55mph with no shoulder at all but I feel very safe on them because the motor traffic is light and accustomed to seeing cyclists. There are so many more factors than posted speed limits and shoulders or bikelanes.

Frankly, I do not find it at all appropriate to be "comfortable" from a safety standpoint while either driving or riding a bicycle in traffic. Attentive, alert, cautious, observant, defensive, in-control, courteous and mildly assertive come to mind. Comfort - no.

I would also vote other. As many others have said there are many factors.

But if it comes to rating factors I'd say there are 2 that are right at the top for everything from single use bike paths, single use paths, bike lanes and all kinds of roads.

Being in good repair/design.
Reasonable vehicle load for the path/road size.

If I don't have to worry about the road and have some space/time almost anything else can be dealt with.

Other. I never ride on sidewalks and prefer to avoid highways where the speed limit is over 50 mph. I feel LEAST safe on a shoulderless, narrow two-way road where the speed limit is over 40 mph...

I know routes where I do NOT feel safe, eg

1. narrow, windey, hilly country roads where the locals drive >50mph, such as about every road in central Missouri. wouldn't catch me dead on those
2. busy 4-lane city streets during rush hour . . . crazy!
3. poorly maintained trails that intersect major roads.

so, take the complement of the above and that's where I feel safe, eg. wide lane, low-traffic, low-speed, residential streets with plenty of visibility, I'm there!

We argue endlessly about how the road lanes should be designed for safer cycling when I believe the most impact to safety would be first strict enforcement of speed limits and secondly reduction of speed limits when above 30-35mph.

Al

That may be true, but it's impossible to strictly enforce speed limits on all or even a small subset of roads. There just aren't the resources.

That may be true, but it's impossible to strictly enforce speed limits on all or even a small subset of roads. There just aren't the resources.
A start would be to zero tollerance enforcement or even 6mph vs. the current highly publicized 11mph tollerance (at least here)

Al

Other. We have a bikepath where no cars are. It runs from the beach to the mountains,about 35 miles one end to the other. 2 lane asphalt for bikes both ways. The signs say bikepath and they have little pictures of cyclist on some walls but the bad part is there are also joggers,walkers,trach teams,baby strollers that use it and thats fine when they stay in one lane so the cyclist can pass. Problem is they dont and do mind tell cyclist we are in there way but all in all,better then being out in traffic.

Other. We have a bikepath where no cars are. It runs from the beach to the mountains,about 35 miles one end to the other. 2 lane asphalt for bikes both ways. The signs say bikepath and they have little pictures of cyclist on some walls but the bad part is there are also joggers,walkers,trach teams,baby strollers that use it and thats fine when they stay in one lane so the cyclist can pass. Problem is they dont and do mind tell cyclist we are in there way but all in all,better then being out in traffic.

Any Road........

On a WOL I prefer to be about 3' to the left of the line or road edge.

On a NOL, I ride far enough to the left so that it is plainly obvious that an overtaking vehicle must change lanes to pass. I don't like the center of a lane. That's where the car droppings, grease, oil, etc., collect.

I will ride in a bike lane if it is kept up to the same standards of repair and is as free of debris as the rest of the road surface.

As speed differential increases, my road position from the right may also increase.

I dont know how you guys can be in traffic if for no other reason,that exhaust kills me.

I dont know how you guys can be in traffic if for no other reason,that exhaust kills me.

I don't know how you can deal with dodging pedestrians and rollerbladers during your entire ride :)

Seriously, you get used to either and the alternatives don't seem very attractive any more. On my commute (aside from traffic at red lights) I am the slowest moving vehicle on the roadway. This means I can pedal as fast as I want and nothing will slow me down.

In an attempt to contribute to the thread, I'd say I feel safest on any road that I've cycled on enough times to know the general flow of traffic and any hazards/trouble areas. I feel confident enough to cycle on any road that I've encountered so far. I prefer to cycle on roads where I can blend in easily with the motorized traffic (25mph roads mainly).

I dont know how you guys can be in traffic if for no other reason,that exhaust kills me.
The pollution is no worse when you're riding than when you're sitting in a car, obviously. Do you ever ride or drive in a car?

I dont know how you guys can be in traffic if for no other reason,that exhaust kills me.

The solution is to carry onboard oxygen in addition to head protection.

http://www.comboutique.com/shop/products/inprint_small/USR573/20050212163420_hgu55_copie.jpg

It seems like there are a lot of folks here with a lot of different thoughts about how bikes should be accomadated, and a lot of different thoughts about what would make bicycling safer. I want to get a feel for where people feel safe right now on their bikes.
I feel safest where drivers seem to respect and understand cyclists as drivers of vehicles.