Google sponsored links
I can see on main streets and around traffic that it is wise for a bicyclist to obey stop signs or any other traffic laws like any other vehicle, but is it really necessary for a bicyclist to stop at stop signs on streets around inside a subdivision? Kids obviously don't do it and so is there a different set of rules and safety when you are bicycling inside a subdivision? Is it just necessary to slow down watch out for vehicles and stop only if necessary to avoid an accident?
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content
here.
Ready to buy? Check out these two online bike stores:
-
http://www.nashbar.com (you can find the latest bike nashbar coupons in
this thread)
-
http://www.performancebike.com (you can find the latest performance bike coupons in
this thread)
Cya on the forums,
- The BikeForums Team
-
http://www.bikeforums.net
The law's the law, but in the end it's up to you to do what you feel is right.
Note that stop signs on private property are not under police jurisdiction (at least where I come from). This means that row of 20 stop signs pock marking the entryway to every big box store I have ever seen are completely optional. Obviously it is foolish to ride/drive in a manner that endangers pedestrians, but you can't get a ticket for rolling through those signs.
By subdivision I am fairly sure caffinenut means residential areas within the 1mi grid that have housing developed by one or more developers/builders. These are not private properly.
I've observed that most vehicle operators do not fully stop in residential areas, this is a bad habit as they do not stop long enough to properly check for cyclists or pedestrians. 999/'1000' times they get away with it, but the one time they don't can result in a close call or worse a collision.
If one chooses not to fully stop that is a decision to break the law and one should accept the consequences, either a ticket or an accident.
As a cyclist I am very wary of other cyclists not stopping or at least slowing to a momentary 0mph. I've had a few close calls with other cyclist not stopping for me. In one case I had to swerve and make a controlled fall to avoid a stop sign running cyclist in the ASU area (I had no stop sign)
I've noticed that in many of the newer subdivisions that stop signs are not even installed. This does not mean that vehicles must not stop, there is an implied stop sign at unmarked intersections - check the local laws.
Al
I do the momentary stop, but not complete stops, unless there is tons of traffic. It's the law, and well, it can make you avoid surprise accidents.
Whether or not I come to a complete stop depends a lot on what sort of visibility I have as I approach the intersection. There are some that are just blind until I get to them, and others where I have a clear view in both directions well before I get to the stop sign. What I can hear also is a factor: if I hear something coming, I'll plan to stop even if I don't see it yet.
With some practice, you can do a "rolling stop" without getting your feet off the pedals. By rolling stop, I mean reaching the point where your wheels almost stop while you do your last check for traffic.Then push these pedals.
If you are not comfortable doing this, put a foot down. Before you stop, as you slow down, always check for traffic behind you and give a break signal and indicate your right/left destination. Remember to downshift if necessary before approaching the stop sign and give a slight twist on one of your clipless to unlock it.
Don't run stop signs, even if you can't see anything, in a collision most people don't remember where the other vehicule came from. You will also give a better example to kids in your neighborhood.
+1 to Cycliste's post.
All I can add is that stop signs are a great opportunity to practice slow riding and track standing; confidence and ability in slow riding in particular is an important skill to have.
All I can add is that stop signs are a great opportunity to practice slow riding and track standing; confidence and ability in slow riding in particular is an important skill to have.
This is exactly what I meant by slowing to a brief 0mph. That is when your wheel stop rotating if only for a split second, you do not need to put a foot down. I do often unclip before doing this to be prepared if a full stop is needed.
However if you want to best communicate with other drivers I find that putting a foot down lets them know you are fully stopped and will remain so until you can legally proceed. While trackstanding is fun, it often confuses drivers, especially at 4-way stops.
Al
Two points I'd like to make. First, I generally do not stop for stop signs unless there is traffic present. Even then I track stand when possible and observe the drivers of vehicles. If they let me go without the need to put my foot down, I'll avail myself of the opportunity. I generally slow down and glance each way at least twice to make certain the way is clear. If I were to be observed and stopped by law enforcement for running a stop, I would accept the consequences without argument. Discussion maybe - but no argument.
Second, I believe it is the law in most jurisdictions that you stop before entering the radway from provate property including driveways and retail parking lots. The sign is a reminder. The stop is required by law. However, again, paragraph one above applies to these as well.
If you watch traffic passing by a stop sign, you'll soon observe that nobody (car, truck or bike) actually stops at a stop sign when there is no other traffic or pedestrian to stop for. They all "roll through", usually at a slower speed. Drivers/riders only come to a full stop if there is someone else they have to yield right of way to, or if they think a cop is watching. I'm not saying this is good or bad, right or wrong, I'm just saying that it is universal behaviour.
I think the question you may be asking is: should you make a show of slowing to a near stop when there's no traffic or pedestrian to stop for, or should you "blow through" at speed?
Personally I think you should make a show of nearly stopping. You're communicating to any kids that may be watching that the rules of the road should be taken seriously, and you're lessening the chance of a ticket if you haven't noticed a nearby cop. She'll ticket you for blowing through, but she might let it go if you nearly stop.
Also, you might not have noticed traffic on the cross street, or worse, some other cyclist "blowing through", so by slowing you are protecting yourself.
If you watch traffic passing by a stop sign, you'll soon observe that nobody (car, truck or bike) actually stops at a stop sign when there is no other traffic or pedestrian to stop for. They all "roll through", usually at a slower speed.
Actually, I find that a lot of motorists do come to a full stop, even when there is no one to stop for. This is actually good to see. I admit, however, that I never stop completely if I am sure I don't have to yield to anyone. But I slow down significantly, and will always be able to stop in time I missed something. Once I came to a stop sign and rolled through very slowly only to stop suddenly for a cyclist at the cross street blowing through the four-way stop intersection at something like 20 mph! He did yell some apologies to me but hell, this isn't how it works, buddy! Anyway, the point is I was able to avoid a collision even when another party was blatantly disregarding the law.
I find that in general as far as stop signs are concerned, cyclists really are the worst offenders. Just yesterday I had another amazing encounter: I was riding, as I usually do, a couple of feet away from the curb. At an intersection I slowed down at a stop sign to practically 0 kmph and as I was about to take off another cyclist passed me ON THE RIGHT, and without slowing down for the stop sign at all. I caught up with him in just a few seconds and told him, as I was passing him, that what he did was very dumb. While I spoke, he was trying to pretend I wasn't there, but I think he was pretty uncomfortable.
*shakes head*
If you watch traffic passing by a stop sign, you'll soon observe that nobody (car, truck or bike) actually stops at a stop sign when there is no other traffic or pedestrian to stop for. They all "roll through", usually at a slower speed. Drivers/riders only come to a full stop if there is someone else they have to yield right of way to, or if they think a cop is watching. I'm not saying this is good or bad, right or wrong, I'm just saying that it is universal behaviour.
If you observe carefully you will also notice that a good portion of drivers who roll thru stops only look in the direction that motorizied vehicles may be coming from (for example if making a rolling right turn, drivers look left and go) Pedestrians commonly get killed this way, the only reason more are not is because pedestrians look out for themselves and have learned not to trust drivers even if the ped has the right of way. The other issue is that with the glances drivers give when rolling thru a required stop sign is that they can miss smaller vehicles like bicycles, even when the bicycles are positioned in center of lane.
It can be frightening to stand on a ped/auto busy corner and watch how many right turners don't look in the path of where they are going and only look where other vehicles may be coming from and how often peds with right of way perform evasive maneuvers.
Al
It can be frightening to stand on a ped/auto busy corner and watch how many right turners don't look in the path of where they are going and only look where other vehicles may be coming from and how often peds with right of way perform evasive maneuvers.
Al
Ever notice how a hard flat-handed slap to the vehicle scares the dookie out of careless drivers?:D
Ever notice how a hard flat-handed slap to the vehicle scares the dookie out of careless drivers?:D
Ever try to slap a vehicle making a right on red at 15mph while not getting hit at the same time? Sometimes a wheel or two even bumps up over the curb. I had to jump back once as a ped to avoid getting hit by a right turning on red SUV who was turning so agressively they went over the 6" raised curb by about 6"
Al
I've always thought that practicing ones track-standing ability with a short motionless pause at a stop sign is a wonderful way to show off to drivers.
I do have one place where I continue. A T intersection in the middle of a knee crunchingly steep hill, and I don't cross any traffic. Normally, the cars making a stop still pass me as I'm going through the intersection, because I'm going so slowly.
Just yesterday I had another amazing encounter: I was riding, as I usually do, a couple of feet away from the curb. At an intersection I slowed down at a stop sign to practically 0 kmph and as I was about to take off another cyclist passed me ON THE RIGHT, and without slowing down for the stop sign at all. I caught up with him in just a few seconds and told him, as I was passing him, that what he did was very dumb. While I spoke, he was trying to pretend I wasn't there, but I think he was pretty uncomfortable.
*shakes head*
Ya, I was biking down Yonge from Newmarket and had the same happen to me in the downtown core. It's always those sneaky messengers. :rolleyes: What interesection?
As an aside, I've been stuck in the middle of University Avenue because a light's changed halfway through, good thing I have disc breaks! :D
Ya, I was biking down Yonge from Newmarket and had the same happen to me in the downtown core. It's always those sneaky messengers. :rolleyes: No, this wasn't a messenger. Just an ignorant "folk cyclist" on a Wallmart (Canadian Tire :)) bike.
What interesection? It wasn't quite downtown actually, but around St. Clair and Avenue on Heath (a residential street north of St. Clair).
(Oops, just noticed this discussion took place over two weeks ago... Sorry for the unintentional bump of an essentially dead thread...)
It depends on the conditions of the road and traffic going on in each instance as to whether or not I'll stop. On practically every occasion I'll slow to the point where I can jam the brakes for a dead stop if needs be. I admit that this may be something of a bad habit but those who argue that that not stopping fullyis wrong are often those that argue that cyclists are capable of making snap decisions in moving traffic. A little incongruity there methinks.
I will say this, as a feature of street planning, the North American policy of sticking in stop signs, especially the 4-way variety, is a glaring symptom of what is wrong with the automotive culture at large. This feeling that an authority should be doing all of your thinking for you in terms of where, where and how and when to drive simply compounds the laziness and makes drivers more dangerous.
I agree with the posters who observe that stopping at stop signs in residential areas where traffic is light may not be necessary with a rolling stop being adequate except that one runs the risk of being cited should an over-zealous cop decide that a child may not know better but an adult should. Knowing the effort it takes to get back up to speed just in time for the next stop sign, a reasonable-minded cop (is that an oxymoron?) may decide to only cite someone who operates their vehicle in an obviously dangerous and reckless manner. I take the risk, myself, in slow-speed residential areas, ready to stop in an instant (I don't ride that fast as it is) and roll through intersections only where I can see possible approaching traffic clearly and in time to stop.
What drives me nuts are all the motorists who stop for an extra long time when they see a cyclist because they expect them to blow the sign and I am slowing withthe intention of timing my pedaling until AFTER they have gone through, but they sit there and force me to come to a complete stop.
I'm relatively strict around stop signs. I definitely come to a full foot-down stop if there's any other traffic present. I'll slow to almost-trackstand but not unclip if it looks clear on the approach but I want to make sure. I do occasionally find the stop sign that I only slow down to about 5 MPH for; the ones in the country with wide-open fields all around where I can see for 30 seconds before I get to the intersection that there's no traffic for a mile in any direction.
The law's the law, but in the end it's up to you to do what you feel is right.
I agree.
A number of years ago, I rolled a stop sign while driving in a very empty parking lot located on the state fair grounds here in Milwaukee ... sure enough a state trooper was watching that sign and I got pulled over ... "Did you know that these are state highways ? ! :mad: ".
Keep your eyes open, be safe, do what you have to do, but keep in mind that the bottom line is STOP means STOP.
jw
Previous -
Top -
Next
Copyright 1999 - 2007
BikeForums.Net - All rights reserved.
Common bike forum topics in clue bicycles, cycling, mountain biking,
cycling jerseys, shorts, socks, shoes and bike equiptment selection.