Advocacy & Safety - Am I the only one who...

...doesn't thank ALL motoriists are "out to get us" or "hate us"? Sure, I've had some pretty negative encouners with drivers, but I'd say for every one driver that yells, honks, or passes dangerously close to me, I have 50 to 100 cars pass me safely, carfully, and respectfully. I dunno, maybe I'm just lucky, but it seems so often on this and other forums that the most drivers are thaught of as Satan himself. Does anyone have any stories of positive interactions with motorists. I'll occasionally get a "Hey, awsome bike" or "Your a good rider, you can actually keep up with the cars" (that's usually in the downtown core when traffic is moving slower than it does on the open road.) I'm sorry if I offended anyone here, but I just don't see EVERY driver as being hostile to cyclists.

In my limited experience, I think there are many more ignorant/distracted drivers than openly hostile. And you are correct, the largest percentage of drivers are courteous and pass with decent room.

Over 99 percent of the drivers who pass me give me plenty of room, usually slowing down a lot too. Most of them give me as much or more room than I give other cyclists when I pass them in my car.

It's a small percentage that creates most of the problems.

Agree. Small percentage (~1%) are problems, of those the majority are just bad drivers, a small percentage are them are openly hostile. I do find that bad drivers often turn hostile if you try to point out their bad driving!

Come to think of it, I think the best way to reduce rude behavior is to inform rude drivers that they are in the minority and that the rest of the population disapproves. But that "informing" has to come from other drivers and authority figures, not from us cyclists ourselves.

The OP is correct. However, negative events sit with us far longer than positive ones.

I think most are perfectly fine. It does however only take one bonehead to wreck your day/life. I've actually had a few drivers be visibly shaken when I point out that someone just came close to being been killed as a result of their driving. This is of course after I catch them.... :lol: I did see one wife shout him to pullover and she drove after his ******* driving with me.

Most are great.

depends on where and when you ride. rush hour on a busy street is almost always going to result in at least a few drivers cutting you off\honking, etc. sunday morning on a nice lightly used road is going to be much more pleasant.

After a ride, I can't really tell you how many cars/trucks have passed me and were courteous but I can tell you exactly how many times I was cut off or forced onto the gravel or whatever. The negative experiences always stick in my head alot better because they are out of the ordinary.

depends on where and when you ride. rush hour on a busy street is almost always going to result in at least a few drivers cutting you off\honking, etc. sunday morning on a nice lightly used road is going to be much more pleasant.

It's funny, but I find the opposite is true. Sure, when traffic is heavy there are just more cars and more potential for conflict, but that's not anything bike-specific. When I think back on incidents where a motorist lost it because he was offended that I had the temerity to use "his" street, they almost all happened on multi-lane roads in light traffic, where I had zero practical impact on his ability to travel. I think in heavy traffic people are too busy concentrating to get all self-righteous.

For as much abuse that I've had when i've been riding my bike, I've had an equal amount of abuse when I've been driving my car.

People who abuse others for behavior on the road are the types that are always going to upset with something. Whether or not it's a legitimate beef, that's a seperate question, but one I'd bet, isn't.

Agreed. There are certainly the drivers who gain sick pleasure in being hostile to cyclists, but even those just want to harrass and intimidate, but not physically harm. Smaller motorized vehicle drivers also get harrassed by larger motor vehicle drivers. Motor vehicle drivers who display confusion or drive timidly regardless of vehicle size will get harrassed by other drivers.

Most bad encounters cyclists (and all drivers) experience are due to driver inattention.

Al

For as much abuse that I've had when i've been riding my bike, I've had an equal amount of abuse when I've been driving my car.

People who abuse others for behavior on the road are the types that are always going to upset with something. Whether or not it's a legitimate beef, that's a seperate question, but one I'd bet, isn't.

I think you've got it right, though I still think I am getting more abuse while driving than while riding.

I can remember a recent outburst from a driver behind me who considered I was too slow turning into a shopping plaza, and passed me (in my car, not bike) in a narrow one lane entryway, sped down the alley and flew into a parking space another motorist was about to reverse into. Later I met the same driver again at a dry-cleaner's yelling at the shop assistant about an item missing or not yet ready. What a great journey through life.. :rolleyes:

And to answer the OP, no I don't think anyone is out there to get us, but wether it's distraction or anger, it only takes one in ten thousands to wreck everything. And for this reason, while I think drivers education is still necessary, penalties for reckless driving ought to be far tougher than they are now.

I agree with the OP, but disagree with the implied premise - that there are some members here who believe hostile/incompetent motorists are the majority of drivers. Some folks do like to point out that it only takes one to kill you, so, for them, the problem isn't that there are so many, it's that any one of them could be "the one".

My perspective is much more dynamic. I believe all motorists have a potential to be hostile or incompetent, and all motorists have a potential to be respectful and competent, and that my behavior is a significant factor in determining which potential is going to manifest itself when they're around me.

In other words, I believe I surround myself with non-hostile and competent drivers by behaving in a manner that fosters that behavior around me. I am convinced that this, and it's opposite approach (suspecting everyone might be hostile and/or incompetent, and behaving around them accordingly) are self-fulfilling prophecies.

We are social beings, and we react to each other. Humans rise up and lower down to the expectations of others. If you treat someone like he's an incompetent a$$hole, don't be surprised if he acts like one. This is true in all aspects of life, from marriage to cycling in traffic. If you treat him like a competent and respectful person, he'll probably act like one. For those that don't anyway, you've tried, and there's nothing else you can do. Be prepared - look for confirmation, respectfully, before merging in front of someone, etc. - but don't get all bent out of shape by the occasional neanderthal who just doesn't get it.

My view: Assume all drivers are idiots. It only takes one to put you in a wheelchair sipping and puffing your way around the nursing home. Why risk it?

Heard a guy winding up his motor far behind me yesterday on a back road, I found the first driveway and bailed. Sure, he slowed his VW GTI as he passed ... but what if he didn't? I don't worry about getting killed ... dying is easy, living crippled sucks.

jw

I have no problem with idiots, people who are distracted, not looking, the clueless. I pity them. They are easy to avoid and if I got hit by one of them, I would partially blame myself for not being smart enough to avoid them. Just ride with a healthy bit of paranoia and you will be ready to escape almost any situation.

But, like the saying goes, even paranoids have enemies.

I'm talking about drivers that look you straight in the eye and pull out in front of you, or turn in front of you. The ones that come up behind you, honk, and then see how close they can pass you. These people are trying to f*ck with you and unfortunately in my case, and maybe its because I'm in Miami, Fl., I get f*cked with at least half the times that I go riding.

The other day, I was riding home from work in a suit on my Dunelt 3 speed and I was pleasantly surprised to get get a compliment from a driver. Unfortunately, those experiences are few and far between.

I have no problem with idiots, people who are distracted, not looking, the clueless. I pity them. They are easy to avoid and if I got hit by one of them, I would partially blame myself for not being smart enough to avoid them. Just ride with a healthy bit of paranoia and you will be ready to escape almost any situation.

But, like the saying goes, even paranoids have enemies.

I'm talking about drivers that look you straight in the eye and pull out in front of you, or turn in front of you. The ones that come up behind you, honk, and then see how close they can pass you. These people are trying to f*ck with you and unfortunately in my case, and maybe its because I'm in Miami, Fl., I get f*cked with at least half the times that I go riding.

The other day, I was riding home from work in a suit on my Dunelt 3 speed and I was pleasantly surprised to get get a compliment from a driver. Unfortunately, those experiences are few and far between.

depends on where and when you ride. rush hour on a busy street is almost always going to result in at least a few drivers cutting you off\honking, etc. sunday morning on a nice lightly used road is going to be much more pleasant.

While I generally agree with the OP... and years of commuting bear this out, I have found that the ones that are the real jerks tend to pop out at the strangest times... when frankly they have nothing to complain about. Sunday morning rides should be wonderful, but on two different widely separated Sundays, I have had motorists just crawl out of the wrong side of the bed and "attack" me when I was the only thing on the road in sight. And that leaves an impression. BTW the attacks were only honking/verbal abuse... but there was no one else around on nice wide mulitlaned roads... so I have to wonder what the heck was the bug up their butt.

Go you one further though... consider that while most motorists are probably OK (if not distracted), radio talk show hosts can rile up the dead against us... and there is no call for that.

Sometimes people feel justified in teaching others a lesson. When the lesson is "you should stay out of the way of cars" and the student is a cyclist, engines will be reved, they'll look ya right in the eye and turn in front of you, they pass you very closely, just to give you the lesson.

Whether you choose to learn from an ignorant teacher, and seek bike lanes and other refuge out of the "car" lane in response, or ignore him, is up to you.

Actually I would prefer to tell the "ignorant teacher" that their lesson is way off base, lest that teacher attempts to teach others.

Ignoring bad behaviour only reinforces it.

Ignoring bad behaviour only reinforces it.
But responding to it incorrectly or with the wrong technique or strategy can reinforce it even more than ignoring. Just like as with so-called 'trolls' on internet discussion group. Ignoring is most often the best approach unless one absolutely knows a better way for the given situation. That is not to say that some on these forums don't know the better ways.
Al

Simply put I have more problems with drivers who are too nice than I do with openly hostile drivers.

Stuck at a left turn signal that the bike won't trigger the sensor on. Driver is too nice to get too close to me. But too close is needed to trigger the light.

Drivers who wait to let you through a 4 way stop when it is their turn. If they took their turn I'd be through without trouble.

Cars that let you in, when they are the last car and if they just went on there would have been a huge gap.

Cars that don't pass when they have the chance, instead following for long distances. At least some of these are pretty clearly being nice, but I'd rather have them pass and be gone.

But as others have said the real jerks, the unfriendly and/or really stupid are much more memorable.

No Canuck, you are not the only one. I don't believe that all drivers are out to get us, any more than I believe that all American teenagers are drug-thugs and slackers who spend most of their time watching MTV and plotting against their parents.

But it's the bad ones we hear about, and it's the bad ones that stick in the minds of most.

(a) Cars that let you in, when they are the last car and if they just went on there would have been a huge gap.

(b)Cars that don't pass when they have the chance, instead following for long distances. At least some of these are pretty clearly being nice, but I'd rather have them pass and be gone.

a. I don't know the exact situation or what is causing this problem for you, but I had it too until I got a mirror. With a mirror I now don't bother looking back and/or signaling if there is a chain of vehicles with a large gap behind them. Now I can fit in with the flow much more smoothly. It used to drive me nuts when I turned to look for a gap and a car slowed, but not enough to let me in (as I hadn't yet signalled) when if they had kept speed I could have slipped in behind them.

b. I too used to get frustated by this. Sometimes this is because the driver is an idiot and is following to close to be able to get up to speed to merge left, fit into a gap, and pass you. But I've also found that some drivers are not in a hurry and are following out of kindness to 'protect' you or simply because they enjoy going slower. These folks often follow with greater distance and will wave when they finally pass, one older gentleman after following me at distance for over a mile in dense traffic told me while stopped at a light to keep up the great cycling and said he used to be a racer.

Al

But responding to it incorrectly or with the wrong technique or strategy can reinforce it even more than ignoring. Just like as with so-called 'trolls' on internet discussion group. Ignoring is most often the best approach unless one absolutely knows a better way for the given situation. That is not to say that some on these forums don't know the better ways.
Al

True.

I offer the errant motorist a list of the laws that govern cyclists and I talk to the motorist in a calm manner. Of course the motorist then choses how to respond.

These are good points. I actually know (and have always known) that I'm not the only one who sees the good drivers. Like many of you said, the bad ones just "stick out" more. When I go for a ride, I do remember the good drivers, but I tend to remember the bad ones even more. Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone by saying that "everyone" thinks all drivers are idiots, it was just kind of a figure of speech. No matter what the drivers are like, everyone take care out there.

Hi, first time post here. I dont think everyone is an idiot when they're driving their cars, although sometimes we like to think so. The simple fact is that motor vehicles are so easy to drive, and so easy to navigate, people tend to drop their guard and not pay attention to what they're doing. Unfortunately this reduced mode of awareness happens all to often when they approach us on our bikes, and that can lead to disaster. I myself commute to work 14 miles every day and I always worry about getting hit by some unattentive driver not paying attention to what they are doing. My wife staunchly refuses to ride a bike with me solely for that very reason, and is always calling my cell phone if I'm so much as a few minutes late. I ride my bike for my mental and physical well-being, and although I aggresively advocate no one is going to deprive me of it, I still have my worries it may one day happen. All I can say is for everyone to be careful, and not take any unneccessary risks. See ya on the road!!

I believe inattention is the biggest issue... and things that lead to more inattention do us no favors... things like cell phones, in car GPS and DVDs, even food and passengers... these all contribute to the driver not paying as much attention as possible. This all leads to the classic "I didn't see the cyclist" problem.

Most cyclists don't have a clue how to ride in traffic. The only thing keeping them alive is the skill and generosity of the cagers.

God bless motorists for guarding our ignorant brethren.

Most cyclists don't have a clue how to ride in traffic. The only thing keeping them alive is the skill and generosity of the cagers.

God bless motorists for guarding our ignorant brethren.
Good one!

95% of all cyclists are recreational riders that have no clue.

I have no problem with idiots, people who are distracted, not looking, the clueless. I pity them. They are easy to avoid and if I got hit by one of them, I would partially blame myself for not being smart enough to avoid them. Just ride with a healthy bit of paranoia and you will be ready to escape almost any situation.

But, like the saying goes, even paranoids have enemies.

I'm talking about drivers that look you straight in the eye and pull out in front of you, or turn in front of you. The ones that come up behind you, honk, and then see how close they can pass you. These people are trying to f*ck with you and unfortunately in my case, and maybe its because I'm in Miami, Fl., I get f*cked with at least half the times that I go riding.

The other day, I was riding home from work in a suit on my Dunelt 3 speed and I was pleasantly surprised to get get a compliment from a driver. Unfortunately, those experiences are few and far between.

You are right about that, San Rensho...some people just don't care.

Your last paragraph may actually give a clue as to why we often don't get respect: When we are in full cycling "kit", we not only look strange, but can annoy people who don't want people playing in "the road"...even if we are using it for the same purpose, "kit" notwithstanding: To get from Point A to Point B.

Yet, ride something like that Dunelt...or a "Breezer" Town Bike...in "normal" clothing (you can always hide the high-tech stuff underneath), and you LOOK "normal". Nothing to fear. Or challenge. Someone with a "reason" to be on the road...getting from Point A to Point B! So, most people will treat you with more respect...as long as you show that you know what you are doing.

Being confident, cautious, courteous, and competent are all key to "sharing the road". Especially the last point.

Incompetence--whether in a "cage", on a bike, or even on foot--is NEVER OK.