What do you do when about to be Squeezed?

[sam83]

Situation:

Narrow country road with 55 MPH posted limit. There is not enough room for 2 cars heading opposite directions and a bicycle to pass each other at the same point (not enough shoulder), but your intuition tells you that is exactly what will occur in about 10 seconds.

This happened to a friend of mine yesterday. He got over as far as possible (~12" shoulder). The car nearly hit him when passing him at 55-60 MPH and it really shook him up.

I told him that when I see that coming, I move out into the lane just far enough that the car approaching from the rear knows without doubt that there is absolutely not enough room to squeeze by. (I do keep an eye out in case I need to bail!)

I know they will be pissed, but I also know I that I can't trust some one in a car to understand and do what is safe.

What about you?

[lyledriver]

Part of my commute is a narrow one lane each way country road, with no shoulder whatsoever.
If a car is coming towards me, and I know I've got one coming up behind, I take the middle of the lane so the guy behind me CANNOT get past.
Once the car coming towards me passes, I move over into the right tire track, and the guy behind me generally guns it.

In dense city traffic, I often find out I'm getting squeezed as its happening.
Not much can be done here, except to brake and thump the rear quarter panel of the squeezing vehicle with my fist.

[noisebeam]

Firstly I will ride on roads like this in centerish position. That way the earlly signal you give driver is they either must slow or merge, not pass in same lane. I will secondly make sure I am aware of rear conditions to give me time to provide early additional communication to approaching motorist as they get a bit closer and if they haven't yet reacted. This means remaining well into lane and if motorist is approaching and does not appear to be slowing or merging I will stick out left arm like a turn left turn signal, but instead of pointing with finger, give the palm facing stop sign (but with arm outstretched not angled down like a true stop/slowing signal) I will hold my centerish position as long as I deem safe. This almost always results in vehicle merging left somewhat if not a lot. Then I have the full half lane width to merge right into to gain even more passing clearance if needed for the very rare driver who is not looking ahead of them.

The sooner one moves right the less space one will have on their right if further evasive movement is required.

Al

[TYB069]

On a highway (i.e. 55mph+) I try to get over to the right as far as possible which is about to the white line. That gives them about 10 feet or so out of a 12 foot lane to the yellow center line. If they hug the center line, the other car hugs the white line and its close but doable.

There are so many people flying down roads here at 65mph on their cell phones, turned around and yelling at their kids in the back seat that I don't want to chance getting in their way. I'd rather get squeezed and have to change my shorts than get hit in the back with a 45 mph speed differential.

On city streets I'll move into traffic but usually the speed differential is only 5-15mph at the most.

[TYB069]

On a highway (i.e. 55mph+) I try to get over to the right as far as possible which is about to the white line. That gives them about 10 feet or so out of a 12 foot lane to the yellow center line. If they hug the center line, the other car hugs the white line and its close but doable.

There are so many people flying down roads here at 65mph on their cell phones, turned around and yelling at their kids in the back seat that I don't want to chance getting in their way. I'd rather get squeezed and have to change my shorts than get hit in the back with a 45 mph speed differential.

On city streets I'll move into traffic but usually the speed differential is only 5-15mph at the most.

[joejack951]

I agree with Al that I would always be centered on this road. I would not leave it to chance that I might get squeezed. Moving right just makes it all the more likely. Plus once you move right and take away manuevering space, you run the risk of encountering an obstacle (pothole, tree limb) with no way to avoid it. Hitting an obstacle is bad enough but combining that with a close passing vehicle is a recipe for disaster.

Take the lane and make the motorists move over.

[Helmet Head]

Firstly I will ride on roads like this in centerish position. That way the earlly signal you give driver is they either must slow or merge, not pass in same lane. I will secondly make sure I am aware of rear conditions to give me time to provide early additional communication to approaching motorist as they get a bit closer and if they haven't yet reacted. This means remaining well into lane and if motorist is approaching and does not appear to be slowing or merging I will stick out left arm like a turn left turn signal, but instead of pointing with finger, give the palm facing stop sign (but with arm outstretched not angled down like a true stop/slowing signal) I will hold my centerish position as long as I deem safe. This almost always results in vehicle merging left somewhat if not a lot. Then I have the full half lane width to merge right into to gain even more passing clearance if needed for the very rare driver who is not looking ahead of them.

The sooner one moves right the less space one will have on their right if further evasive movement is required.

Al
:beer:

I will only add that the other reason to not ride too far to the right is to make it clear to oncoming potential passers that the lane is occupied. If you ride too far to the right, someone in the oncoming lane thinking about passing a slower vehicle is much more likely to not see you, or dismiss your presence as being insignificant, and decide to pass, if you're off to the right than if you're in a more centerish position.

[EnigManiac]

I move out to the centre of the lane on rural roads but also hold my hand up to the driver behind so that he is aware he must slow down. I find they acknowledge that and nod on their way past when it's safe to do so. In the city, I blast my AirZounds and give a good solid thump on the rear quarter panel of cars squeezing me. That tends to get their attention.

A friend of mine recently put signs on his bike, front and rear (with the front reading forward and rearward for those who read it in their right hand mirror---like they ever use a right hand mirror) and it reads: This bicycle is equipped with video surveillance monitoring. He only did it recently so I haven't asked him if he's noticed a difference yet, but I'll report back with his findings.

[DavidLee]

I stay near the center so they will not squeeze me, both for my safety as well as the safety of other motorist. If you allow someone room enough to squeeze you in you not only have to contend with the car but you'll also be worrying about the curb/rail/ditch just to your right. Take all of those out of the equation and move center. Also a car trying to pass/squeeze may straddle the center line and force oncoming traffic to drive evasively which could cause serious trouble. I just take the horn blast and move along. Once its safe to move right with no oncoming traffic I'll give the car behind me room to pass.

[John Wilke]

What's wrong with riding on the shoulder ... do some cyclocross.

They're going 55 mph right? Don't you want to live???

Riding the gravel won't kill you, but getting hit might.

jw

[joejack951]

What's wrong with riding on the shoulder ... do some cyclocross.

They're going 55 mph right? Don't you want to live???

Riding the gravel won't kill you, but getting hit might.

jw

You're assuming that the shoulder is gravel, and not a guard rail or grass but with a 6 inch drop between the roadway and "shoulder." JW, I realize you had a unique experience that has you thinking that getting hit from behind is a common occurence and one that a cyclist should make every attempt to avoid by making sure they are never in front of an automobile. That really isn't the case though. You have the right to be in the road and to keep yourself safe. By riding off the road into whatever is on the shoulder, you are risking falling or worse all for the convenience of someone else. It's not a smart move.

[Helmet Head]

Riding the gravel shoulder??? Cyclists who capitulate to the notion that cyclists don't belong in traffic lanes compound the problem by riding in accordance to the notion - in the gravel shoulder!!! - reinforcing its truth.

Probably the most effective way to lose a right is to not exercise it, blatantly.

[John Wilke]

You're assuming that the shoulder is gravel, and not a guard rail or grass but with a 6 inch drop between the roadway and "shoulder." JW, I realize you had a unique experience that has you thinking that getting hit from behind is a common occurence and one that a cyclist should make every attempt to avoid by making sure they are never in front of an automobile. That really isn't the case though. You have the right to be in the road and to keep yourself safe. By riding off the road into whatever is on the shoulder, you are risking falling or worse all for the convenience of someone else. It's not a smart move.

I'll take on some gravel over getting run over ANY day. I got my one miracle and I'm not banking on another. If there's no room for them to _breeze_ by you as they're yakking with the neighbor on the phone, then I'd rather stop, take a drink from my water bottle, and wait until it's clear. I'll gladly give up 30 seconds now, rather than a week in the hospital. But hey, that's me. I'm not trying to preach, just share my point of view. I've lived through hell ... it's no fun.

jw

[Helmet Head]

John - were you using a mirror and riding to be conspicuous (using a centerish lane position and only moving aside when faster traffic was close enough to have noticed you) prior to impact?

[flipped4bikes]

Normally I would take the lane, but with cars going over 55mph (nobody does speed limit anymore), I'd find another route. :(

[San Rensho]

I'd find another route to ride my bike. I'm all for cyclists taking the lane but you have to be crazy to take the lane on a road where traffic is going 55+ mph and the only safe way of riding is to take up the whole lane. If the speed limit is 55, that means traffic will be going 70+ mph.

Even on a straight road, with good visibility the speed differential is so huge that even a fairly cautious driver wouldn't be able to see you, process what you are and react appropriately in time. Factor in hills, curves etc and its a recipe for disaster, and its not going to be the car driver's disaster, the cyclist will die or get maimed.

And for those who will argue "Oh, drivers are very bad for going that fast and should be going the speed limit", take a reality pill. We're dealing with real life here, not an ideal fairy tale world of how you would like drivers to behave.

The primary concept of vehicular cycling is that cyclist are safest when they behave like vehicles, i.e., motor vehicles, and don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. Which means that to bicycle among cars you have to go at a speed that is reasonable relative to theirs, not necessarily just as fast as them, but you have to be able to be in the ballpark.

To complain about getting hit in this situation would be like a Yugo driver taking the left lane of the Autobahn and then complaining about why he got rear ended.

[sbhikes]

A local woman was killed in a situation similar to this. The road was too narrow for the truck who passed her and a bike to ride side-by-side. The road had also recently been through storm damage. There is absolutely no shoulder at all--one side is a sheer face and the other side is a sheer drop-off due to a landslide. Even if she'd been poised at the edge of the cliff there still wasn't enough room to be passed. You would have to see it to believe it. And yet he decided to "pass" her anyway, which, seeing as there was nowhere for her to go, meant she was run over and killed.

Sometimes there's not much you can do.

[genec]

The primary concept of vehicular cycling is that cyclist are safest when they behave like vehicles, i.e., motor vehicles, and don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. Which means that to bicycle among cars you have to go at a speed that is reasonable relative to theirs, not necessarily just as fast as them, but you have to be able to be in the ballpark.


There are two routes for me to get home... one is a 45 MPH road heavily traveled and the other is a 50MPH road, moderately traveled... both are very steep hills where I go about 7MPH... there is no way physically that I am going to "go at speed" in either case... nice suggestion, but totally impractical.

Oh and BTW the only way for me to get to either of these roads is to transition up a freeway ramp (out of a valley) where traffic moves at 65MPH, again I move at 7MPH. So much for "go at speed."

Get real.

[Helmet Head]

A local woman was killed in a situation similar to this. The road was too narrow for the truck who passed her and a bike to ride side-by-side. The road had also recently been through storm damage. There is absolutely no shoulder at all--one side is a sheer face and the other side is a sheer drop-off due to a landslide. Even if she'd been poised at the edge of the cliff there still wasn't enough room to be passed. You would have to see it to believe it. And yet he decided to "pass" her anyway, which, seeing as there was nowhere for her to go, meant she was run over and killed.

Sometimes there's not much you can do.
Ah. She's the one whose death has inspired the current effort to pass a 3 foot minimum passing law in CA.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_1941&sess=CUR&house=B

[Eatadonut]

There are two routes for me to get home... one is a 45 MPH road heavily traveled and the other is a 50MPH road, moderately traveled... both are very steep hills where I go about 7MPH... there is no way physically that I am going to "go at speed" in either case... nice suggestion, but totally impractical.

Oh and BTW the only way for me to get to either of these roads is to transition up a freeway ramp (out of a valley) where traffic moves at 65MPH, again I move at 7MPH. So much for "go at speed."

Get real.


No, you get real. If you can't go a reasonable speed, you cannot be on that road. It's incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.

Find another way home. Walk your bike. Go cyclocross-style. A cop would pull you over if you were in a car doing 7 (or for that matter, 20) in a car, on a highway.

I never ride on shoulderless roads that I cannot maintain speed within 10mph of the speed limit. The one SINGLE exception to this rule is country roads with nonsense speed limits, where there's a high volume of cycling traffic. The traffic there has learned to watch for cyclists, and they wait until there's room to pass.

[Helmet Head]

The primary concept of vehicular cycling is that cyclist are safest when they behave like vehicles, i.e., motor vehicles, and don't get me wrong, I'm all for that. Which means that to bicycle among cars you have to go at a speed that is reasonable relative to theirs, not necessarily just as fast as them, but you have to be able to be in the ballpark.
This is false. Vehicular cycling covers the gamut from riding faster than motor traffic, to about the same speed, to much slower than motor traffic (including 7 mph uphill taking the lane in 50+ mph traffic, which I recently described).

[noisebeam]

I never ride on shoulderless roads that I cannot maintain speed within 10mph of the speed limit.
If I followed this rule I couldn't cycle more than 1/2mi from my house. I couldn't go to the coffee shop, the grocery store, to get a haircut and more unless I drove or walked. Cycling with a 30mph differential on busy roads with only a NOL is not at all unreasonable and is safe. I'll let others with better experience comment on cycling in NOLs with greater speed differentials.

Al

[genec]

I never ride on shoulderless roads that I cannot maintain speed within 10mph of the speed limit. The one SINGLE exception to this rule is country roads with nonsense speed limits, where there's a high volume of cycling traffic. The traffic there has learned to watch for cyclists, and they wait until there's room to pass.

Actually the roads I mentioned were not shoulderless, but I have toured in various places around this country and not all roads had shoulders and I rarely rode over 13MPH while fully loaded.

[DCCommuter]

No, you get real. If you can't go a reasonable speed, you cannot be on that road. It's incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.


A definition of "incredibly dangerous" and some sources to back up your assertion would be useful.

[sam83]

It is very interesting to see how many people’s perspectives are shaped by their local traffic and terrain. That is certainly something to consider when choosing how to “behave” in traffic. I did a ride in Maryland a couple years ago and was amazed at how passing motorists did not slow, but always gave me plenty of room – by forcing oncoming traffic onto the shoulder! That doesn’t happen down here!

First off, I’d like to address the comments about “finding another route”. Well, there are really not any “great” choices if you want to road bike. No paths, no bike lanes. We take the “safest” roads. With the rarest of exceptions, the roads around here in southern, middle Tennessee are narrow, rural, with a 55 MPH limit. The “better” roads are really narrow tar and pitch, rough and without any lines, which seems to slow MOST drivers to slightly less than 55 MPH.

As for getting onto the shoulders, they are non-existent for the most part. The roads go right from pavement to a grass slope heading into a ditch “designed” to carry away rain water.

Probably 75% of the vehicles are trucks or SUVs. Getting all the way over to the right *might* work if there’s no trailer, no dually or no big honkin’ mirror. But then you’d only have < 2 feet, at best. Not great at 50 MPH.

This problem probably happens to me maybe an average of once on a ride over 30 miles. (BTW, I was told that up until just a few years ago hunter’s safety was a mandatory high school class, while driver’s ed. was not. Explains a lot.)

What I try to accomplish with my action is to make a decision for the driver. Some, when given half a chance, will take liberties / over estimate their ability to safely squeeze by. By moving from my normal 6” inside the white line to a more centerish position, the driver realizes that there is no chance to safely pass because that idiot cyclist is in the middle of the damn road. They then apply their brakes.

If they don’t, I’d be headed for the ditch.

BTW, I use a very good mirror.

[joejack951]

A cop would pull you over if you were in a car doing 7 (or for that matter, 20) in a car, on a highway.


Please show the law where it states a minimum speed on any roadway aside from motor vehicle only interstates. Unless you are needlessly impeding traffic, you can go whatever speed you want on a public roadway. It's a speed LIMIT.

[San Rensho]

This is false. Vehicular cycling covers the gamut from riding faster than motor traffic, to about the same speed, to much slower than motor traffic (including 7 mph uphill taking the lane in 50+ mph traffic, which I recently described).

I wish you well, Helmet Head, but what you describe is close to suicidal.

[San Rensho]

No, you get real. If you can't go a reasonable speed, you cannot be on that road. It's incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.

Find another way home. Walk your bike. Go cyclocross-style. A cop would pull you over if you were in a car doing 7 (or for that matter, 20) in a car, on a highway.

I never ride on shoulderless roads that I cannot maintain speed within 10mph of the speed limit. The one SINGLE exception to this rule is country roads with nonsense speed limits, where there's a high volume of cycling traffic. The traffic there has learned to watch for cyclists, and they wait until there's room to pass.

Can't agree more, and thanks for the back-up!

[sam83]

No, you get real. If you can't go a reasonable speed, you cannot be on that road. It's incredibly dangerous for everyone involved.

Find another way home. Walk your bike. Go cyclocross-style. A cop would pull you over if you were in a car doing 7 (or for that matter, 20) in a car, on a highway.

I never ride on shoulderless roads that I cannot maintain speed within 10mph of the speed limit. The one SINGLE exception to this rule is country roads with nonsense speed limits, where there's a high volume of cycling traffic. The traffic there has learned to watch for cyclists, and they wait until there's room to pass.

I'm assuming that you live somewhere where there are a lot of options when following these guidelines. But realize this is not the reality for cyclists everywhere. We have to ride what we have, or not ride at all.

[Jim-in-Kirkland]

Primal Sream - volume and pitch depending on highway speed and size of upcoming vehicle in my little rear view mirror or danger of situation....

[jwc]

Am I reading some of these posts correctly?

I've had more close calls in town, riding within ten miles of a posted limit than I have riding on two lane roads with a 55 limit. There are no 45mph zones in my town. All roads are 25 and 35, then you're out of the city limits and its 55.

NC law is very clear on this. Cyclists can use any road except interstates. The problem is with car drivers not being educated as to what the law is and not paying attention to their driving...I'd venture to say that cyclists for the most part, at least those who ride almost everyday, are better educated on highway laws than any car driver and are more aware of what is going on while they are "driving".

I strongly disagree with the notion that you "If you can't go a reasonable speed, you cannot be on that road". Maybe SHOULD NOT...and that would depend on traffic conditions at that time. There are no minimum speed limts here, except on the interstates. This being farm country, I've passed tractors traveling on the road slower than I was cycling. All sorts of vehicle are on the road and going slower than "reasonable".

[2manybikes]

Situation:

Narrow country road with 55 MPH posted limit. There is not enough room for 2 cars heading opposite directions and a bicycle to pass each other at the same point (not enough shoulder), but your intuition tells you that is exactly what will occur in about 10 seconds.

This happened to a friend of mine yesterday. He got over as far as possible (~12" shoulder). The car nearly hit him when passing him at 55-60 MPH and it really shook him up.

I told him that when I see that coming, I move out into the lane just far enough that the car approaching from the rear knows without doubt that there is absolutely not enough room to squeeze by. (I do keep an eye out in case I need to bail!)

I know they will be pissed, but I also know I that I can't trust some one in a car to understand and do what is safe.

What about you?

I think what your saying is that you do what I do, you know the car is coming long before that, and you get into the lane so they can see you. As early as possible. Earlier than 10 seconds if you can do it.

Some things make this easier and a little safer. Having a good helmet mirror and having used it long enough to be comfortable with it. Wearing bright clothing, like a yellow jacket or jersey etc. I also use a daylight visible taillight. This is a huge help when taking the lane. I have noticed even with a bright jersey there are places where the background makes it hard to be seen. In low traffic places I hear and see cars coming in my mirror from a 1/2 mile behind. Or more at night. ( in low traffic places)

In the day have someone get on your bike with your jacket and walk away to see how it contrasts with the background when you are coming up from behind in a car. It might not be that good.

[sam83]

I think what your saying is that you do what I do, you know the car is coming long before that, and you get into the lane so they can see you. As early as possible. Earlier than 10 seconds if you can do it.

Yes, that's pretty much the situation.

Mind you, these are country roads. Of course it varies considerably, but I probably get passed maybe only once every 5 minutes, so the "squeeze play" does not happen all that often. Around here there are too many people who think they can squeeze by if they think they have an foot or so. Not only is this not a safe distance, they fail to accurately judge mirrors, fenders and trailers. By moving out early, I feel that it discourages drivers from chancing it and see it happening all the time.

As for comments regarding some distraced drivers not seeing you at all and feeling it's better to be far right than out into the lane. Well, I guess I can't disagree completely in THOSE SITUATIONS. I'd think that chances are that a distracted driver would be somewhere *close* to the lane, but as we've all read, people are killed in wide shoulders and bike lanes all the time. Those guys are a crapshoot.

I am assuming that the wide responses are primarily due to road and traffic conditions in the poster's areas.

The best thing is to be constantly aware of your surroundings, identify potential risks, have a thought out plan and execute strategies to either eliminate or at least minimize those risks.

[sam83]

Am I reading some of these posts correctly?

I've had more close calls in town, riding within ten miles of a posted limit than I have riding on two lane roads with a 55 limit. There are no 45mph zones in my town. All roads are 25 and 35, then you're out of the city limits and its 55.

NC law is very clear on this. Cyclists can use any road except interstates. The problem is with car drivers not being educated as to what the law is and not paying attention to their driving...I'd venture to say that cyclists for the most part, at least those who ride almost everyday, are better educated on highway laws than any car driver and are more aware of what is going on while they are "driving".

I strongly disagree with the notion that you "If you can't go a reasonable speed, you cannot be on that road". Maybe SHOULD NOT...and that would depend on traffic conditions at that time. There are no minimum speed limts here, except on the interstates. This being farm country, I've passed tractors traveling on the road slower than I was cycling. All sorts of vehicle are on the road and going slower than "reasonable".

My world (all 55 MPH 2-lane roads with no real shoulder):

I passed a tractor yestersay.

I pass Amish buggies once in a while.

I waited at a T-intersection to let 9 horseback riders pass.

[Monoborracho]

I never argue right of way with a car, or heck, even a dog for that matter. I don't want to be dead right.
I try to judge the situation as to whether to move into the lane or simply slow down or stop. I'm not afraid to stop, and I never argue right of way with a moving vehicle.

[CommuterRun]

Narrow, two lane, rural roads with speed limits ranging from 35 to 60 mph describe nearly all of my current riding. Three highways in this area have a paved shoulder wide enough to ride on, but only one is on any of my regular routes. An alternate route can be chosen, but often it's going to be miles, sometimes many miles, longer, with no change in road conditions. The road shoulders are grassy sand. Typically, if you get on these shoulders with narrow tires, you are going to meet Mother Earth. There are some secondary roads, but almost none of them go all the way from here to there, and they are typically sand. On these sand roads, tires narrower than 1.5" are worthless and it still depends on how much, or how little, rain there's been lately.

Riding under these conditions is not at all difficult. I ride no further to the right than the right tire track. The higher the speed differential, the further to the left you need to be. It's up to the cyclist to make it blatantly obvious to the motorist approaching from the rear that they cannot pass without changing lanes. If they have to slow and wait until the other lane is clear, then they have to slow and wait until the other lane is clear. Simple as that. Take the lane at all paved road intersections, all curves and when crossing bridges. Never change your line to the right, under these conditions, when being passed.

Not being able to ride under these conditions means you're a driver, because you're not cycling anywhere.

When cyclists get themselves in trouble, is when they ride with the mistaken idea that they must stay out of the way of cars and put themselves too far to the right. The "must stay out of the way" attitude is probably one of the most dangerous things cyclists do by leading to other dangerous behavior such as riding on the shoulder.

[Roughstuff]

Situation:

Narrow country road with 55 MPH posted limit. There is not enough room for 2 cars heading opposite directions and a bicycle to pass each other at the same point (not enough shoulder), but your intuition tells you that is exactly what will occur in about 10 seconds....

?

YUCK! I hope this doesn't happen to ya too often.

This is where a rear view mirror (of any kind...i use a helmet mounted one) is invaluable. I either slow down enough that the car coming up from behind now has the ability to pass unimpeded by the approaching vehicle; or speed up enough that the oncoming car goes by on the other side before the rear vehicle has to pass me.

Being a pokey rider by nature, the former case occurs more often.

If it really looks like it is gonna be dangerous, I think you are right to take the lane. Other times I just pull over,stop, and take a drink of water from my water bottle. Better a nice rest break than be roadkill.


roughstuff

[Roughstuff]

Situation:

Narrow country road with 55 MPH posted limit. There is not enough room for 2 cars heading opposite directions and a bicycle to pass each other at the same point (not enough shoulder), but your intuition tells you that is exactly what will occur in about 10 seconds....

?

YUCK! I hope this doesn't happen to ya too often.

This is where a rear view mirror (of any kind...i use a helmet mounted one) is invaluable. I either slow down enough that the car coming up from behind now has the ability to pass unimpeded by the approaching vehicle; or speed up enough that the oncoming car goes by on the other side before the rear vehicle has to pass me.

Being a pokey rider by nature, the former case occurs more often.

If it really looks like it is gonna be dangerous, I think you are right to take the lane. Other times I just pull over,stop, and take a drink of water from my water bottle. Better a nice rest break than be roadkill.


roughstuff

[Helmet Head]

What I try to accomplish with my action is to make a decision for the driver. Some, when given half a chance, will take liberties / over estimate their ability to safely squeeze by. By moving from my normal 6” inside the white line to a more centerish position, the driver realizes that there is no chance to safely pass because that idiot cyclist is in the middle of the damn road. They then apply their brakes.

If they don’t, I’d be headed for the ditch.

BTW, I use a very good mirror.
:beer:

[Helmet Head]

A cop would pull you over if you were in a car doing 7 (or for that matter, 20) in a car, on a highway.
He would pull you over for what? What's a bull dozer supposed to do, or some other more vehicle that can't go faster than 7 mph or so up that hill?

With "friends" like these, cycling advocacy needs no enemies.

[LittleBigMan]

Situation:

Narrow country road with 55 MPH posted limit. There is not enough room for 2 cars heading opposite directions and a bicycle to pass each other at the same point (not enough shoulder), but your intuition tells you that is exactly what will occur in about 10 seconds.

This happened to a friend of mine yesterday. He got over as far as possible (~12" shoulder). The car nearly hit him when passing him at 55-60 MPH and it really shook him up.

I told him that when I see that coming, I move out into the lane just far enough that the car approaching from the rear knows without doubt that there is absolutely not enough room to squeeze by. (I do keep an eye out in case I need to bail!)

I know they will be pissed, but I also know I that I can't trust some one in a car to understand and do what is safe.

What about you?
I don't think there is any question that you have only two choices on a road like this: ride exactly as you describe, or get completely out of the lane. To be indecisive and ride on the edge could be a big mistake.

I realize there is no real shoulder here, so I recommend either take the lane, or get off the road.

There is no shame in avoiding roads like this. Just don't be indecisive!

[Roughstuff]

He would pull you over for what? What's a bull dozer supposed to do, or some other more vehicle that can't go faster than 7 mph or so up that hill?

With "friends" like these, cycling advocacy needs no enemies.

well, for obstructing traffic, for one thing. COuld he give ya a ticket for it? I doubt it; but at least the cop could let you know you were being a butthead and should either be able to go a reasonable speed or get out of the way.

As for the bulldozer or any similar vehicle: they have flashing lights, appropriate warnings with flags and triangles that they are going below the prevailing speed, and most important, they are the exception, not the rule on the roadway. I might add many will wave you on by as they see the situation in front of them amenable to passing.

There are few situations I have been in on the road in the last 40 years that were not significantly improved by the use of courtesy, professionalism and a bit of pro-action on my part.

roughstuff

[Roughstuff]

I don't think there is any question that you have only two choices on a road like this: ride exactly as you describe, or get completely out of the lane. To be indecisive and ride on the edge could be a big mistake.

I realize there is no real shoulder here, so I recommend either take the lane, or get off the road.

There is no shame in avoiding roads like this. Just don't be indecisive!

Good point. If, in using your rear view mirror, you see there isn't a chance to speed up/slow down so that the 3 vehicles are not in the same spot at the same time, I agree. Get your ass out there in the lane and see what happens as the car behind you approaches. If they slow down and the driver responds to your thumbs up thank you signal, you are all kosher.

If they don't, I do the same thing. Pull over, take a swig out of your water bottle, and count your blessings. I often do this for tractor trailers and wave them on; they honk in appreciation, and I think i've tagged myself a karma point that will come in handy later.

roughstuff

[TYB069]

When everybody that "takes the lane" takes the lane, when do you do it? I guess who much time do you allow? Are you popping out into the middle or left tire track with, say, 3 or 4 seconds untill the squeeze or is it like 15 or 20 seconds? I guess, from the posts, it seems like people are riding out with only a couple seconds to spare and expect the cars to slam on the brakes. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything but I think I must be missing something because I have hard time believing that won't eventually get you hit.

[Roughstuff]

When everybody that "takes the lane" takes the lane, when do you do it? I guess who much time do you allow? Are you popping out into the middle or left tire track with, say, 3 or 4 seconds untill the squeeze or is it like 15 or 20 seconds? I guess, from the posts, it seems like people are riding out with only a couple seconds to spare and expect the cars to slam on the brakes. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything but I think I must be missing something because I have hard time believing that won't eventually get you hit.

Gee...that IS a good question, TYB069....and darn I am trying to think if there is any general rule that I follow. I "know" I don't just cut out there 3 or for seconds away. I wanna give the car behind me enough time to 'realize' that I am in the lane, intend to stay there, and need to be dealt with. At the same time the real issue to avoid, if possible, is a 3-way interaction, and that is something you can see coming pretty early, in alot of cases. 10-15 seconds seems to fit the bill, when i think back to the situations I deal with on the rides here, locally.

When I do slow down to try and avoid the 3-way, I often try and wave the car behind me to pass me, so that it doesn't ALSO slow down, and frustrate the whole goal in the first place. Many drives are so amazed that I can see and control the whole roadway so far, that i get all kinds of thumbs up and beeps as thank you's from drivers, especially trucks.

You can be damn sure truck drivers will remember my courtesy when they go on down the road.

But then again, I tend to live in a different world than many urban/CM'ers who think the whole world is out to get them.

roughstuff

[dwightonabike]

If you think riding on the side of the road will get you out of the way of a vehicle, you're wrong. It's the inattentive driver who doesn't notice you that will hit you, and riding on the white line is no protection, especially against large trucks or trailers.

I've never seen a tractor or bulldozer with lights on at all, much less flags and signs. The only things I've seen with those saftey features are wide-load vehicles that travel at highway speeds.

I'm happy for those who have the opportunity to never ride on narrow country highways. For many of us, it is that or an hour drive, one way, each time we want to ride. I'm not willing to do that, and have found that riding on lower-traffic, narrow, 55mph highways is much safer than any city or neighborhood.

[LittleBigMan]

When everybody that "takes the lane" takes the lane, when do you do it? I guess who much time do you allow? Are you popping out into the middle or left tire track with, say, 3 or 4 seconds untill the squeeze or is it like 15 or 20 seconds?
I would try not to "pop out" at all. Holding a straight line would be best.

Some people recommend riding in the right tire track. Another way to decide where to position yourself is to paint an invisible bike lane inside the actual lane (right side,) then ride in the center of the invisible bike lane. It's amazing that whenever I do this, I feel as if I "deserve" an adequate amount of space.

Still, if you don't feel comfortable with a particular lane, you don't have to use it. Just don't position yourself near the edge where a driver might think he can pass you without enough clearance. If the lane's too narrow, either take the lane or leave it.

[derath]

I guess I haven't had the luxury of knowing anything else. Near my house I have 2 kinds of roads.

1. 2 Lane 50mph moderately travelled roads. They vary from a decent shoulder to no shoulder (dropoff a couple inches outside the white line)

2. Low traffic small roads. The kind without any lines, yellow or otherwise.

I am relatively knew to heavy road riding. I just started really riding on the road in the last year, and only on a road bike in the last couple months (trail riding on my mtn bike previously).

I guess I best match the VC style, although I don't know all the details. I tend to "take the lane". I usually stay in the lane, probably about 1/3 of the way from the shoulder. I do this for a couple of reasons.

1. I am far enough out in the lane to be seen and noticed.
2. I am still far enough to the right, that a car can easily pass via crossing the yellow line when it is safe (the same way they would pass a car on a 2 lane road)
3. I can move to the right easily to allow a car to pass when needed.

If I am riding and a car approaches from behind (i use a mirror), and I can see ahead far enough to know he can safely pass me by crossing the yellow line, I hold my position in the lane.

If I am riding and a car approaches from behind, and I can tell it will not be safe for them to pass like the above situation, I will move right when appropriate to let them pass.

If it looks like a squeeze play may happen I will adjust my speed to stop it from happening. Either by

a. Slowing down so the car can pass before the other car gets to us.
b. Speeding up for the same effect.
c. Slowing down and stopping on the right. I only do this if there is sufficient room to get out of the way of traffic.
d. Speeding up as fast as I can (good time for a sprint interval) and staying right in the lane so the car knows it must slow down and wait.

Quite honestly, I always stay aware of my surrounding when I ride or drive my car. Honestly in doing so I have avoided and real squeeze issues by adjusting my speed and position in time to avoid the issue.

-D

[CommuterRun]

When everybody that "takes the lane" takes the lane, when do you do it? I guess who much time do you allow? Are you popping out into the middle or left tire track with, say, 3 or 4 seconds untill the squeeze or is it like 15 or 20 seconds? I guess, from the posts, it seems like people are riding out with only a couple seconds to spare and expect the cars to slam on the brakes. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything but I think I must be missing something because I have hard time believing that won't eventually get you hit.

I don't pop out. On these NOL, two lane, rural roads, I very rarely ride further to the right than the right tire track. This effectively gives me the entire right half of the lane, all the time. Especially when I'm towing a trailer, which for my riding is normal. This puts me in a road position that makes me as visible as possible and makes it obvious to anyone approaching from the rear, from the first moment they see me, that they are going to have to cross the center line to pass, with the exception of other two wheeled vehicles. I hold my line when being passed which makes me as predictable as possible.

When I do take the lane, i.e. paved intersections, bridges, curves, etc., I do it early. The heavier the traffic, the earlier I move left. Up to a 1/4 mile or more, ahead of where I really need the entire lane.

[powerhouse]

I found myself in the same situation last year on such a country road. This was in Western Maine where there happened to be huge farmers' fields on both sides of the road but with a large ditch separating the shoulder from the fields.

There was a large truck coming up behind me whose driver didn't seem to be slowing down. Ahead of me was a teenager driving at top speed in his clunker. The only choice I had was to pull off the road and ditch the bicycle.

That's why I answered in the "other" collum at the beginning of this poll.