Touring - OK So how much for that LHT?

Hey,

So my friend has the bug to have a Surly LHT built up. The shop says its heavy, and will cost way too much. They would rather sell her a Cannondale.

So all these nice LHT's what was the final price tag? (If I can be so brazen).

Thanks

Jim

Around 2300 for me. I constructed a commuter LHT. Who cares if it's heavy, it still rides great...

Some of us have good used spare components laying around. I built my LHT from some of these spare parts and also canibalized my wife's no longer used mtb bike for more parts. I had to order just as few components to complete my build. I'm sure a few LHT owners fall into this category. My total cost including frame and few extra parts was under $800, and that includes a Tubus rear rack.

Mine cost the price of the frameset. All other came from my parts bin and some from another bike. I'll probably spend another $ 70.00 in the future for some proper cranks.

Hey,

So my friend has the bug to have a Surly LHT built up. The shop says its heavy, and will cost way too much. They would rather sell her a Cannondale.

So all these nice LHT's what was the final price tag? (If I can be so brazen).

Thanks

Jim

of course they would rather sell her the Cannondale... it is in stock, and the salesman probably does not even know what a real bike tour is....

find another bike shop.

Hey,

So my friend has the bug to have a Surly LHT built up. The shop says its heavy, and will cost way too much. They would rather sell her a Cannondale.

So all these nice LHT's what was the final price tag? (If I can be so brazen).

Thanks

Jim

The joy of an LHT (I don't have one but I can see the appeal) is in doing the work yourself. If you buy the frame and a complete build kit (Shimano Tiagra or LX level), I would suspect that she would be looking at around $1000 to $1400 more than the frame...if she built it herself. If she has a shop build it, I suspect that you could add another $300 to $500 on top of that. Especially considering that it just wouldn't be cricket to go to Nashbar and buy the parts and have the shop install them :eek: She would be paying quite a premium for a shop to build it.

If she has another bike to cannibalize, she could do it for less...but don't forget the extra cost of the other bike. Other's on this thread have said that they just had the parts laying around but they forget that they had to pay for them at some point. Also, a shop might charge extra to break down the old bike and build the new one.

Aadils price of $2300 seems right on the money to me. With labor you could be pushing $3000 pretty hard. Assuming that she is looking for a touring bike and that the shop is trying to sell her a Cannondale T800 (which, if she is looking for a touring bike she should get that one and don't let them sell her an R500 or something), the price of the T800 is around $1100. She could buy the Cannondale and the LHT, swap the parts and still be ahead. Or just buy the Cannondale, because it's an excellent bike!

of course they would rather sell her the Cannondale... it is in stock, and the salesman probably does not even know what a real bike tour is....

find another bike shop.

I think the shop is actually looking out for her best interests. Considering that she wants it built, it would be pricey. And Cannondale makes 2 excellent 'real' touring bikes! I don't think you can point to any other large manufacturer that offers not just one classic touring bike but two!

I think the shop is actually looking out for her best interests. Considering that she wants it built, it would be pricey. And Cannondale makes 2 excellent 'real' touring bikes! I don't think you can point to any other large manufacturer that offers not just one classic touring bike but two!

I stand corrected... a question for the origional poster.... what cannondale was he pushing her towards?


mike

Yeah we've have been down that road. She isn't going to build it.

I actually just found a leftover '03 T800 on the evil Ebay. She liked it when she tried it but that just a mile. She is worried about "stiffness of the al". She has some issues with bone spurs in her neck and doesn't wnat to chance it. Have you seen the new wheelset they seem to have dropped down a notch when I looked at the other day.

I am encouraging her to try them all. She might go the Trek 520 if it had better (lower) gearing and din't have thumb shifters.

Oh the quote is $1700 from the shop, that doesn't sound too bad.

Check out this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=47

I spent about $450 in addition to the frame for one, but already had several components.

Yeah we've have been down that road. She isn't going to build it.

I actually just found a leftover '03 T800 on the evil Ebay. She liked it when she tried it but that just a mile. She is worried about "stiffness of the al". She has some issues with bone spurs in her neck and doesn't wnat to chance it. Have you seen the new wheelset they seem to have dropped down a notch when I looked at the other day.

I am encouraging her to try them all. She might go the Trek 520 if it had better (lower) gearing and din't have thumb shifters.

Oh the quote is $1700 from the shop, that doesn't sound too bad.

I can understand her issues with the stiffness. The Cannondale is a stiff ride, especially without a load. I'm big and with a load, the bike and I push 300 lb. We need that stiffness but she might not.

If I understand what you posted, you already have the T800 (mine is an 03 also) right? If you do, buy the LHT and work something out with the shop to swap parts. Or do it yourselves. It's not that hard really and you learn a lot about your bike while you are doing it.

Then sell the frame on E-bay.

I spent around $800 on my LHT. I built it up myself and used a seatpost, wheels, and racks that I already had. I have no idea how much it would have been using all new parts and paying a shop to build it, but my best guess would be about twice as much.

Local shops around Seattle will sell a LX gruppo Long Haul Trucker with machine laced wheels for 1,400 bucks or so. I can name 4 shops I went into this winter that had Long Haul Truckers built up as floor models.

A little shop i frequent charged me only $100 to assemble my LHT. I have a tendency to crossthread (caveman in shop class) so first time build ups are worth it to me. I think most shops are flat rate build ups, seems like its 150 bucks if i'm remembering correctly all the rate boards i've seen lately.

To be honest, unless you are specifying Chris King Headset and a Phil Wood bottom bracket, the LHT's biggest price variation is going to be in your wheelset. splurging on a well chosen set of wheels can add a half thousand to the bike, and it may be worth it.

You can also throw a sixty dollar set of poptabs on there and still be good to go for a while...at a slightly higher premium, Velocity wheelsets are rated pretty highly, are widely available, handspun in Michigan, last I checked. probably in Michigans' prison labor system, but hey...

Stuart's build up estimate is well on the high side, but the Cannondale is a fine bike. You can't go wrong either way. If stiffness is a concern, with fat tires and a B67 it's not likely to be a problem.

If she has another bike to cannibalize, she could do it for less...but don't forget the extra cost of the other bike. Other's on this thread have said that they just had the parts laying around but they forget that they had to pay for them at some point. Also, a shop might charge extra to break down the old bike and build the new one.

I should have said that I did pay full retail for some of the parts I have laying around 2-10 years ago(seatpost saddle and LX rear cassette was way back in 96-97) Current parts are the bars and the canti brakes. Because I caught the upgrade bug during the years these parts were relegated to the "Parts Bin". Now that age caught up and being practical and all why buy more parts if I just have them laying around. I would not think how much I paid for them in the past but how much I would saved by just recycling it to a new project.

The bottom line, it can be done cheaply if you have the parts or can get the parts from someone or can get the parts cheaply from someone who has an extensive parts bin. Parts bin rules!

I had the exact same discussion at my favorite LBS today. I asked what it would cost to build up an LHT and the sales guy say probably about $1500. We had this discussion right in front of a Bianchi Volpe, which costs about $900, and he suggested I think about the Volpe.

My question is: is the LHT frameset much nicer than a Volpe or the Trek or Cannondale tourer's frame? Unless there was a compelling story around how much better the LHT was, I'd tend towards having something already built up that costs a lot less. One thing I did like about LHT was slightly longer chainstays and a lot of capacity to build the bike in different ways. For example, you could use v-brakes or down-tube shifters... although I wouldn't consider these two items compelling reasons actually.

I am building up an old raleigh super course. The projected cost, buying quality used stuff, is around 500 american.

Look at 1000-1500 depending on quality of the components and how much work you do yourself. Mine weighs 23lbs and it's a 62cm. The bikeshop wants to move what's on the floor, and not what the customer wants. Find another shop. OTOH, I stopped at the Trek Store in La Mesa with mine one time for a tube (had a flat and my spare had a split seam). All the older guys in the shop were drooling on it, it was the first LHT they'd seen and they loved the build. Now that I'm playing with recumbents, I'm eyeballing a trike for touring, and there may be a 62cm LHT on the slightly used but in pristine condition market. :)

I'd say a nice LHT shop build should run around $1200-1400 with mostly new parts and maybe a few used ones (an old 110 BCD MTB crank, used front derailuer, old Nitto bars maybe?) It's easier if you have bike buddies with lots of old parts lying around....

I'd start with finding a set of high quality used brake levers and pair them with new bar-end shifters. This set up is cheap and unlikely to fail for miles of hard riding. Stay away from using STI brifters unless you have more $$$. I'd try to stay with 105 or Deore LX level parts-- they offer the best value for the money.

The bike shop should give you a deal on the frame-- close to wholesale, if they are building up the bike. Trust me, the shop will make plenty of money of labor and parts. It would be hard if you don't have a bunch of bike shops around. Here in the Northwest, there are so many shops that one of them would be more than happy to give a person with 1200 bucks a deal.

I'd say a nice LHT shop build should run around $1200-1400 with mostly new parts and maybe a few used ones (an old 110 BCD MTB crank, used front derailuer, old Nitto bars maybe?) It's easier if you have bike buddies with lots of old parts lying around....

I'd start with finding a set of high quality used brake levers and pair them with new bar-end shifters. This set up is cheap and unlikely to fail for miles of hard riding. Stay away from using STI brifters unless you have more $$$. I'd try to stay with 105 or Deore LX level parts-- they offer the best value for the money.

The bike shop should give you a deal on the frame-- close to wholesale, if they are building up the bike. Trust me, the shop will make plenty of money of labor and parts. It would be hard if you don't have a bunch of bike shops around. Here in the Northwest, there are so many shops that one of them would be more than happy to give a person with 1200 bucks a deal.

Around 2300 for me. I constructed a commuter LHT. Who cares if it's heavy, it still rides great...


Twenty-three hunderd for a LHT? Yikes! How does one spend that much? Do you have any pictures? Must be lot of bling on that bike!

Buying a complete bike from any of the large manufacturers is going to seem cheaper than buying a LHT and building it up. Most people I know that have a LHT build them up with a mix of new, used and donated parts. I spent $1500 on mine; built it up my self and hand picked all the parts to my specific needs.

The LHT is a great bike; well designed and super tough.
http://static.flickr.com/42/104478037_144bf1f757_m.jpg

Ah, metal cowboy really gets down to the real reason anybody would build up any bike....customization to your personal needs.

I'd also add that most *store bought* bikes have low end parts on them that might fail under heavy use like touring..... with a $1500 LHT custom build, all the parts should be strong and last a long time.

Many new bikes sold by bike shops end up with trashed wheels or shifters after less than a 1000 miles---- after the repair bill, the rider might as well just bought a nicer custom build in the first place

If she has a shop build it, I suspect that you could add another $300 to $500 on top of that. Especially considering that it just wouldn't be cricket to go to Nashbar and buy the parts and have the shop install them :eek: She would be paying quite a premium for a shop to build it.




Wow that is way high for a shop build, please dont let a shop sucker you into paying that, it's a flat rate job at most places and the highest I have ever seen was $150.

That's a good point about "store bought" bikes. The Volpe I looked at had some components that I would probably not buy in a "build up". Right off the bat, I would want to replace the stem, seat (and probably seat post...) and certainly the nobby tires.

Look at 1000-1500 depending on quality of the components and how much work you do yourself. Mine weighs 23lbs and it's a 62cm. The bikeshop wants to move what's on the floor, and not what the customer wants. Find another shop. OTOH, I stopped at the Trek Store in La Mesa with mine one time for a tube (had a flat and my spare had a split seam). All the older guys in the shop were drooling on it, it was the first LHT they'd seen and they loved the build. Now that I'm playing with recumbents, I'm eyeballing a trike for touring, and there may be a 62cm LHT on the slightly used but in pristine condition market. :)

What parts did you build with? From Surly's website: Weight: 58cm = 5.15 lbs. (2.34 kg)
Fork - uncut = 2.25 lbs. (1.02 kg)
Regards,
Lee

Wow that is way high for a shop build, please dont let a shop sucker you into paying that, it's a flat rate job at most places and the highest I have ever seen was $150.

I was basing the cost on what I would consider a fair amount of time for removal of parts from one bike and putting it on another, adjusting the brakes and derailers, adjusting wheels if necessary, retaping the bars, etc. I would estimate, at a minimum, 4 hours and possibly more. Considering that a shop has to make a profit, I would consider $150 to be low although my estimate is probably high also.

As for it being a flat rate job, I wouldn't know. Most shops wouldn't have even thought of a parts swap, much less come up with a flat rate for doing it.

Stuart's build up estimate is well on the high side, but the Cannondale is a fine bike. You can't go wrong either way. If stiffness is a concern, with fat tires and a B67 it's not likely to be a problem.

It's been several years since I bought a complete build kit but that one cost me around $900 for everything (wheels, controls, crank, etc.) for an LX/XT mix. Since that was 6 or 7 years ago and I figured that the shop would have to charge full retail (I got mine elsewhere) the cost would be rather high. The $2300 that Aadils payed for his seemed about right to me. Since then, we have been given other information that leads me to believe that the shop is just going to order the frame and strip the parts off of a bike they probably have in the shop (the extra $1000 seems to indicate that) and sell the customer basically 2 bikes. They aren't ripping her off, to me it is a clever way of keeping her costs reasonable. It sounds like this shop may be a real gem.

Hi all! I am the one who is interested in getting the touring bike (friend of bluesref). Came to a meeting of the minds with my LBS - he now understands I am *not* going to buy the Cannondale, having spent several very painful years on the back of a Cannondale tandem. Yes, yes, I heard from him all about how "rough" it is on the back of tandems, and how the harshness has been engineered out of the Cannondale frames, but I don't have $1,600 to experiment. I told the LBS that his $1,700 price estimate was more than I want to spend, and he came back with $1,540 not including the seat or pedals, which I am providing. Sold!

I have the Surly LHT on order in black cherry pearl (yowsa) with all black components: Deore crankset 22-32-44, 11-34 Shimano LX cassette (lowest gear is 16.1 inches - sweet, highest 99.5), Shimano splined BB, Tektro Oryx cantilever brakes, Ultegra STI brifters, Deore LX hubs with Mavic XM317 32 hole rims, 26" wheels, 52 cm frame, Ritchey Scuzzy headset, 3T forma handlebars. Still to pic - *just the right* handlebar tape to complement the black cherry paint and black components.

Next: which panniers and racks to buy? So far, I am taken with the Jandd Mountain Expedition and Arkel panniers. Any recommendations?

Thanks for your posts, and watch for a pic of the built up Surly!

Reg

Congratulations on your new bike setup! You probably made a wise choice. I just picked up a Cannondale T800 and can already tell that it is a bit more harsh when unloaded than my Trek 520, but I'm assuming it will smooth out nicely with a full load. I have Jandd packs for my all terrain touring and commuting bike - the Mtn in front and Large Mtn in the rear. They are extremely well made and rugged, and tie the load down very well so things don't rattle around. They also make excellent commuting bags as they attach securely and would be difficult for someone to remove. By the same token, the mounting system is a bit tedious and could be a bit of a hassle if you are touring where you need to remove them from the bike regularly for some reason. BTW, the Jandd Expedition panniers are huge - not sure why you would need that much space if using front panniers also, as you should for proper weight distribution.

Might be a little to late but I had mine ordered and built up for me for arounf 1400 from my shop. After that I added a new brooks saddle and so on but it's been worth every dime.

Hi all! I am the one who is interested in getting the touring bike (friend of bluesref). Came to a meeting of the minds with my LBS - he now understands I am *not* going to buy the Cannondale, having spent several very painful years on the back of a Cannondale tandem. Yes, yes, I heard from him all about how "rough" it is on the back of tandems, and how the harshness has been engineered out of the Cannondale frames, but I don't have $1,600 to experiment. I told the LBS that his $1,700 price estimate was more than I want to spend, and he came back with $1,540 not including the seat or pedals, which I am providing. Sold!

I have the Surly LHT on order in black cherry pearl (yowsa) with all black components: Deore crankset 22-32-44, 11-34 Shimano LX cassette (lowest gear is 16.1 inches - sweet, highest 99.5), Shimano splined BB, Tektro Oryx cantilever brakes, Ultegra STI brifters, Deore LX hubs with Mavic XM317 32 hole rims, 26" wheels, 52 cm frame, Ritchey Scuzzy headset, 3T forma handlebars. Still to pic - *just the right* handlebar tape to complement the black cherry paint and black components.

Next: which panniers and racks to buy? So far, I am taken with the Jandd Mountain Expedition and Avril panniers. Any recommendations?

Thanks for your posts, and watch for a pic of the built up Surly!

Reg

I'm glad you found your bike. I love my Cannondale but I would never suggest it for anyone who doesn't want the stiffest bike you can probably find. I don't mind the ride but then I'm an old guy that rides hardtail mountain bikes too;)

For racks, the absolute sweetest ones are the Tubus. The Cargo (http://www.thetouringstore.com/TUBUS/Cargo/CARGO%20PAGE.htm) is strong as an ox and the Tara (http://www.thetouringstore.com/TUBUS/Tara/TARA%20PAGE.htm) (front rack- you need a front rack by the way) is the prettiest front rack around. Both can be purchased from Wayne at The Touring Store (http://www.thetouringstore.com/). Wayne is really nice but he will talk your ear off:) The only problem with the Tubus is they are expensive - about $100 each.

For bags, I'm partial to Ortliebs, which you can also get from Wayne. I have 2 sets of Front Rollers and Back Rollers. I like them for their simplicity and their waterproofness. Some people like bags with lots of pockets and doodads but I don't. Pockets, in my opinion, just cry out for you to fill them. Whatever bags you get, don't make the mistake of getting the largest bag you can. Again, that bag just cries out to be filled so you end up carrying far more stuff than you need. My bags are 40L for the rear per pair and 25L per pair for the front which is more then enough space for a solo unsupported tour. And the cheery yellow color nicely offsets my dreary black bike:D

Twenty-three hunderd for a LHT? Yikes! How does one spend that much? Do you have any pictures? Must be lot of bling on that bike!


I Have about that much in my LHT. It depends on parts one is using. Start adding high end racks like Tubus,Surly,Bruce Gordon. Phil hubs and/or Bottom bracket,Campy parts,Brooks saddle,Crank,etc. Just a set of wheels can be upwards of $800 or more.
It adds up. http://surlylht.blogspot.com/

Richard

Here 'tis for your viewing pleasure - my new Surly Long Haul Trucker, with Hobbes, my ferocious puttycat! 29 pounds (the bike of course) including rack and fenders. By the way, the black cherry pearl paint color is very nice. What an amazingly comfortable ride, and I actually have 27 usable gears (no grinding!) ranging from 16.1 to 99.5 gear inches. For most of my local riding in the Binghamton NY area, it hasn't been necessary to use the granny gear because the middle chainring takes me down to 23.4 gear inches (unbelievable!) I've been commuting to work this week on it, and am looking forward to touring this summer. Thanks for sharing your comments and prices with me! Reg

I Have about that much in my LHT. It depends on parts one is using. Start adding high end racks like Tubus,Surly,Bruce Gordon. Phil hubs and/or Bottom bracket,Campy parts,Brooks saddle,Crank,etc. Just a set of wheels can be upwards of $800 or more.
It adds up. http://surlylht.blogspot.com/

Richard

richard, very nice bike. how do you like the Shwalbe Marathon XT tires. what type of handle bar tape is that?

I just got a LHT, transfered all the parts over from my 'dale Silk Tour T800. (the old one with the headshok fork). Cost was about 500 with tax (10% in tennessee), and then just the usual consumable, bar tape, cables, etc. I have found the ride to be much smoother than the 'dale, and as for weight, My LHT (56 cm) with tubus cargo rack, Brooks B-17, Shimano 520 pedals, couple of bottle cages comes in at 26.5 pounds according to my scale. (digital bathroom scale, weighing myself holding the bike). That is lighter than the 'dale (headshok is HEAVY), and if memory serves me, right about the same weight as my Volpe, with fenders and the lightweight tubus rack (juno I think).

I can understand why folks love them so much.

Steve W

Mine weighs 23lbs and it's a 62cm.
My 62cm LHT weighs about 30lbs including fenders, front and rear racks, bottle cages, pedals - no cargo. I made no effort at all to reduce the weight and the only reasonably light part used on mine is the saddle so I am sure that you could build one to be quite a bit less than 30 without a whole lot of effort.

Here 'tis for your viewing pleasure - my new Surly Long Haul Trucker, with Hobbes, my ferocious puttycat! 29 pounds (the bike of course) including rack and fenders. By the way, the black cherry pearl paint color is very nice. What an amazingly comfortable ride, and I actually have 27 usable gears (no grinding!) ranging from 16.1 to 99.5 gear inches. For most of my local riding in the Binghamton NY area, it hasn't been necessary to use the granny gear because the middle chainring takes me down to 23.4 gear inches (unbelievable!) I've been commuting to work this week on it, and am looking forward to touring this summer. Thanks for sharing your comments and prices with me! Reg

I'm curious, what's the setup on your gearing? I know, I could go to Sheldon Browns Amazing Online Gear Calculator and figure it out, but I'm lazy. :) I'm running a 44*32*22 with an 11-32 cluster, but have always been a gear-head back to the days of the 'Half-Step with Granny'.

Steve W.
Who has a kitty helping him post today.

A little shop i frequent charged me only $100 to assemble my LHT. I have a tendency to crossthread (caveman in shop class) so first time build ups are worth it to me. I think most shops are flat rate build ups, seems like its 150 bucks if i'm remembering correctly all the rate boards i've seen lately.


Plus they have all those tools you don't want to spend a fortune on and may hardly ever use again, and the little parts and supplies you may not even know you need.

Hey, So my friend has the bug to have a Surly LHT built up. The shop says its heavy, and will cost way too much. They would rather sell her a Cannondale. So all these nice LHT's what was the final price tag? (If I can be so brazen). Thanks Jim

Like others have said, of course they'd rather push the Cannondale onto her. It's in stock. However, one can build up an LHT to whatever exotic level they wish to, depending upon the level of components that they put on it. Keep in mind that if she does by a pre-built bike like the Cannondale, by the time she may end up swapping out parts to personalize the bike to her liking, what would end up costing more in the long run? Of course it's heavier; it's a true touring bike. I love it when bike shop experts place that kind of an opinion on them. Anyway, she'll probably end up taking their advice, and getting the Cannondale in the end anyway. Typical for a newbie cycle tourist to do that. That's how the majority of us learned. :eek: