Training & Nutrition - weekly winter cycling/weight program
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12-08-02, 10:02 AM
I have just returned to the gym, over the last 6 weeks to try and gain some strength for next season.The problem is I am still trying to find how to split my time, between the bike and the weight, so that I am not overtraining and being able to recover.
I usually go the gym in the mornings and split up so I concentrate on
Mon/thu : Chest, Tricep, Shoulders
Tue/Fri Back,biceps,legs (abs most days)
My weekend consists of 4 hour run on sat then maybe 3/4 hr run on sunday.There are some winter club runs on tue and thu which are steady pace,ocassionaly minute or so fast spells(in small gears) and on wednesdays I usually go out for hour or so and do some jumps and sprints(not too big gears).
Any ideas about how to split the week so that I have at least 2days weights,maybe one day sprints/ jumps and should I still go out on tue/thu rides with club or cut back on one?Usually I need to push harder than normal on tue/thu after weight training in morning(or day before) but is this not just the general thing that comes with weight training, your cycling speed drops until heavy weight training decreases?.Any thoughts? thanks
12-08-02, 10:15 AM
My problem is similar.
I want to do the trainer - I guess 3-4 times per week - for about 40 minutes each. I have the trainer at home, along with the spinergy videos.
I have a complete home gym and do a lot of weight training at home.
I also try to power walk daily for two miles.
I have to leave for my job at 6:50 am, and don't return home until about 5:00 pm. My job is pretty exhausting, and I just don't have the energy to exercise in the pm, except for power walking.
So, I guess I will try the following in the mornings from 5:30 - 6:15:
Saturday WL and a ride if possible
Sun Trainer or ride if possible
R - Trainer
F - Trainer
Plus power walking in the evenings.
Wonder if I can keep it up??
I also attempt to combine weight training for muscle/strength gain and anaerobic fitness with significant cycling for aerobic fitness ,muscle tone, transportation and just fun.I find that I have to prioritize one or the other for a period of time (it can be as short as that week)to see any results as they are basically conflicting goals and too much sucess in one actually limits your sucess in the other.For a few years when I began weight training seriously I limited aeobics and went with a 5way high volume split to see any results as I tend to be a hard gainer.More recently having added back significant cycling I truthfully struggle a little with the volume approach and find in this situation less can be more effective though for now I have stayed with a one bodypart /day split.The keys I find are increased calories to support the activity level,plenty of rest,stress minimization and as I said priortizing one or the other and if you start feeling overtrained cut back on the one not focused on at the time however don't get overly sucked into the fear of overtraining mantra if you are not at least approaching overtraining you are probably not working hard enough too many people simply use it as an excuse not to work out .
12-08-02, 07:39 PM
The keys I find are increased calories to support the activity level
I seem to have a very good suppply of built-in reserve calories, ahich, I sadly state, will probably nourish me for much too long.
Ah - to have the problem of needing increased calories. I can't wait for the day.
I'll try the mixed program, but really appreciate the input on changing emphasis weekly, and will give that consideration.
I am not really into a lot of gins right now with the WL, but do want to maintain. I really want to increase the aerobic.
If your focus is on aerobic then muscle maintenence is a realistic goal on the weight front.Keep in mind this still requires lifting just the intensity doesn't have to be as high as otherwise.For endomorphs who gain muscle but also fat easily which it sounds like your'e saying you are this is probably a smart way to focus for much of the time as you will tend to have a lot of natural muscle but have problems making it defined/visible.You can check back on the weight thread of P.B. Walker where Maelstrom and others with similar goals described a circuit weight routine which is a good routine for restricted calorie diets and cutting bodyfat.
12-08-02, 10:12 PM
For endomorphs who gain muscle but also fat easily which it sounds like your'e saying you are
No - I have broad shoulders, etc. I guess I am just a mix. I and m,any others really don't buy into the "morph" thing. No one is one type. We are all mixtures.
Most folks in power lifting pretty much discount the morph theory nowadays.
I agree everyone is a mixture of bodytypes.However in the absense of specifics it is necessary to talk in generalities and I usually classify people complaining about fat as endo people complaining about lack of muscle as ecto and people not complaining as meso for purposes of discussing routines.The point I was making is if you have trouble losing fat you likely have a good muscle base as well and should follow routines suggested for endos whether you classify yourself that way or not if your goal is to lose fat which is what I thought you were saying you wanted to do. The routine is really for cutting fat while minimizing muscle loss no matter the bodytype.Of course if your into powerlifting its all about numbers anyway. Most powerlifters like extra bodyweight in any form as it helps lift more weight.
12-09-02, 03:27 AM
i've struggled with the same thing the last few winters...
from your description, the problem i see is the legs on Friday and the long ride on Saturday. unless you're spinning and riding easy which is unlikely on a long ride, i think that sounds like trouble -- if you're lifting right, your legs should be jello and riding hard will actually hurt your training by inhibiting the recovery.
i don't really have a definite plan, but i did something pretty close to you riding with a group on Wednesday or Thursday nights, and lifting 2 days a week for back/bi, 2 days for chest/tri and legs ONCE per week. the day after legs i did almost no riding (maybe commuting or light spinning) and the 2nd day easy. for me, i lift legs really HARD and need almost 2 full day otherwise i feel like i'm not recovering. i also stepped up my running to mabye 2 days a week to help add to my total cardio training...
it depends on your goals, but i would tend to suggest either/both:
1) cut your cycling to 1 or 2 days a week (spinning and easy cycling doesn't count)
2) limit your leg workout to only ONCE per week
in general it's hard to do both lots of cycling and lots of leg work. i think most of the stuff i have read is that the many pros really cut back their riding and maybe only do one real ride a week and concentrate on spinning (technique work too) plus LEG weights. the idea is, take a break from competitive training, maximize your strength gains and then in the early spring regain your cycling-specific strengths on top of the added weight-training gains.
12-09-02, 07:55 AM
originally posted by DnvrFox
I and m,any others really don't buy into the "morph" thing. No one is one type. We are all mixtures.
while not always correct, i believe the basic idea is quite useful - especially for people starting out.
i am a hard-gainer (ectomorph) and i worked out hard with weights on and off from about 19 to 22 while never gaining any muscle mass or weight (i got stronger of course). i was 145lbs at 6'1" when i was 22. between 27 and 29 i gained 15lbs from lifting 6 days a week and concentrating on my diet, and got to a max of 170lbs. since then i have lost 5-10 lbs (last summer during heavy cycling i was under 160) since i only lift 1-2 days a week the last year or so. anyway, someone like me has very different weight lifting goals than an 18 year old who can go to the gym and lift for 2 months and gain 5 pounds of muscle mass (like many of my friends back then) who then also tend to be the people who when they stop lifting turn to fat (i just loose weight and get scrawny).
there are many factors, but as a starting point i think the categorization can be valuable --- endomorph (fast gainer- build muscle easy, difficult to loose fat), ectomorph (hard-gainer, hard to build muscle mass, excessive body fat control less of a problem) and i forgot the last term (isn't it "normal" or middle?)
12-09-02, 09:22 AM
Here's some good information about the different body types.
Remember, your mileage may vary.
Nathank...how was the ride today (Monday, 9th December) in Munich? It was wild here in Eastern Switzerland!
Nathank You did a good job of summarizing the usefulness of bodytypes as a starting point much better than I did in fact and I like your advice about limiting cycling afte leg training as well.I think the third bodytype is mesomorph the naturally atlethic type with broad shoulders ,slim waist,good natural musculature and low bodyfat.Most people have some meso characteristics but are haunted by some of either endo or ecto as well which they need to focus on if their goal is to make their body more athletic/mesolike.
12-10-02, 04:44 AM
hey Tom, thanks for the link. that's some interesting stuff, but i think it has to be taken only approximately. also i think i agree with the part about almost everyone being a combination of 2 or even all 3 types. i am an ecto/meso as i was the scrawny guy in high school and i am picky about food - although i have broad shoulders, good hand-eye coordination, like physical challenges and am pretty athletic... at 15 i would have been primarily an ecto (5'2" and people asked if i ate or not and basically saw only ribs when i took off my shirt) and now primarily a meso as i have worked and trained a lot to build some muscle and my athletic talents (6'1" 160-65lbs, 31" waist, relatively broad shoulders and V-shape)
as to Munich. Winter arrived while i was in Barcelona last weekend and it's barely gotten over 0C this week and is supposed to be even colder later in the week. but no precipitation, so it's just cold out there. the commute today was great except my nose was pretty cold - maybe i'll have to pull out the face mask soon.
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