Training & Nutrition - Diabetes and long rides

I'm working up to 50+ miles per and I'm finding that I'm hitting a blood sugar low that has been hard to supplement after a couple of hours of steady riding. Been using juice and PowerBars, but they upset my stomach after a while. I've looked into several things; fruit (dried and fresh), pre-ride loading and drink supplements.I'm not on insulin, but do take meds daily. My average blood sugar is around 100 most days. Any suggestions from Diabetic riders out there? I'm curious to hear what you use/think.
thanks in advance

Slowrider,

If you have been keeping your blood sugar around 100, then you are doing pretty well. I understand that most diabetics do not adjust their diet adequately and have all sorts of gyrations in blood sugar levels.

I am not a diabetic. But a cycling buddy of mine came down with it. I have ridden a number of long rides with him including some centuries. He has had good luck with GU packets to keep his blood sugar up and I doubt that those would bother your stomach.

I recall reading somewhere that exercising muscles do not require insulin to suck sugar out of the bloodstream. I recall on one century, my friend ate his favorite snack, a SNICKERS bar, for the first time since being diagnosed. It did not spike his blood sugar. However, since he had not been eating sweet things for so long, the SNICKERS bar tasted "funny".

Good luck to you.

Pat

Slowrider,

If you have been keeping your blood sugar around 100, then you are doing pretty well. I understand that most diabetics do not adjust their diet adequately and have all sorts of gyrations in blood sugar levels.

I am not a diabetic. But a cycling buddy of mine came down with it. I have ridden a number of long rides with him including some centuries. He has had good luck with GU packets to keep his blood sugar up and I doubt that those would bother your stomach.

I recall reading somewhere that exercising muscles do not require insulin to suck sugar out of the bloodstream. I recall on one century, my friend ate his favorite snack, a SNICKERS bar, for the first time since being diagnosed. It did not spike his blood sugar. However, since he had not been eating sweet things for so long, the SNICKERS bar tasted "funny".

Good luck to you.

Pat

Slowrider,

If you have been keeping your blood sugar around 100, then you are doing pretty well. I understand that most diabetics do not adjust their diet adequately and have all sorts of gyrations in blood sugar levels.

I am not a diabetic. But a cycling buddy of mine came down with it. I have ridden a number of long rides with him including some centuries. He has had good luck with GU packets to keep his blood sugar up and I doubt that those would bother your stomach.

I recall reading somewhere that exercising muscles do not require insulin to suck sugar out of the bloodstream. I recall on one century, my friend ate his favorite snack, a SNICKERS bar, for the first time since being diagnosed. It did not spike his blood sugar. However, since he had not been eating sweet things for so long, the SNICKERS bar tasted "funny".

Good luck to you.

Pat

Slowrider,

If you have been keeping your blood sugar around 100, then you are doing pretty well. I understand that most diabetics do not adjust their diet adequately and have all sorts of gyrations in blood sugar levels.

I am not a diabetic. But a cycling buddy of mine came down with it. I have ridden a number of long rides with him including some centuries. He has had good luck with GU packets to keep his blood sugar up and I doubt that those would bother your stomach.

I recall reading somewhere that exercising muscles do not require insulin to suck sugar out of the bloodstream. I recall on one century, my friend ate his favorite snack, a SNICKERS bar, for the first time since being diagnosed. It did not spike his blood sugar. However, since he had not been eating sweet things for so long, the SNICKERS bar tasted "funny".

Good luck to you.

Pat

I know that this starts to sound repetitive, but one thing that helps me are Payday candy bars. That and peanut butter. There is some magic to a little fat and protein with the sugar that helps.

I am not diabetic either ... I'm actually the opposite: hypoglycemic.

However, as a general guideline it is recommended that on rides over 2 hours we should consume approx. 250-300 calories per hour. That 250-300 calories can come from whatever sources that work for us, and since we are all individuals, we all tolerate different things in different ways.

Some suggestions:
-- energy bars - there are other brands besides Powerbars out there. My suggestion would be to go to your local LARGE grocery store and take a look at what they've got on the shelves. Mine stocks probably 20 different brands each with at least 5 different flavors, so quite a good selection. Pick out several that look tempting and fit with your diet, then take a variety on your rides so that you do not eat the same bar twice in a row. Experiment! You might find that some do not work for you, and others are great.

-- cereal bars/granola bars/fig newtons, etc. - if you can eat those, give them a try.

-- nuts - if you are not allergic or intolerant to those, bring a baggie with you on a ride and eat them as you ride. I keep salted almonds in my bento bag when I ride so that I can eat them on the go.

-- fruit - fruit is all right except that it doesn't have much in the way of calories. A banana is only 80 calories and so you'd need to eat three of them each hour which could get a little much pretty quickly. But fruit can be good for some variety.

I like to stop at least once for a meal on most of my centuries, so if you head up to that distance, and if you decide to stop for a meal, choose things that have a low glycemic index.

I hope some of this helps! :)

I'm just getting my distance up, but, FWIW, some nut/seed/raisin trail mix before a ride (with no insulin bouls; I'm type 1) will carry me for about 50km/2 hours. After that I've had good luck with a pack of peanutbutter crackers. I figure I'd need a pack of crackers every 25km, but I won't know for sure until I get past 75km.

I'm a type I on an insulin pump and have found that it doesn't really matter where you get your carbohydrates from, as long as you are getting enough for your distance. The longer rides typically will require something with some fats and protein so that it slows down your absorption and lasts longer (a sandwich, chocolate milk, whatever agrees with your stomach). I find that mixing granola bars, fruit and nut bars and energy drinks will get me 60+ miles, century distances require something a bit more substantial.

I recall reading somewhere that exercising muscles do not require insulin to suck sugar out of the bloodstream.
correct

Thanks, lots of good suggestions. I like the idea of a snickers bar. I havent had one in over three years! I have to watch the sugars though, I react quickly. Before I came up Diabetic, I used to use Edge bars for my weight training workouts. They are loaded with carbs and protien, so much so that I would actually get a rush from them. Haven't seen them for a while, but as was mentioned, changing up would be a good idea.
thanks again

Machka,
Great web page. Enjoyed the pic's of the various rides. I've been updating mine and hope to have it posted soon. The old site, theme and structure is no longer usefull or valid. Also thanks for the tips.
take care

MisterJ
I hear ya. I like oatmeal with peanut butter before a ride (actually anytime, but works great for pre-loading) and according to my family, if I could get away with it, I would live on peanut butter and cheese. Good thing for me, my wife knows better!:D

are you people insane? you have diabetes and you wanna eat snickers bars? wow...

I'm not diabetic, but I do stick to a low carb/high fat diet. from what I understand, this diet is perfect for anyone who has diabetes, particularly type 2. I've read account after account of people who've gone off their meds, and pretty quickly, just by cutting out sugar and starches alltogether.

I know you think you need carbs for endurance exercise, but that is just hogwash. there may be a small performance boost, and even that is debatable, and negilble at best. and if you have diabetes, how in the world can it be worth it?

are you people insane? you have diabetes and you wanna eat snickers bars? wow...

I'm not diabetic, but I do stick to a low carb/high fat diet. from what I understand, this diet is perfect for anyone who has diabetes, particularly type 2. I've read account after account of people who've gone off their meds, and pretty quickly, just by cutting out sugar and starches alltogether.

I know you think you need carbs for endurance exercise, but that is just hogwash. there may be a small performance boost, and even that is debatable, and negilble at best. and if you have diabetes, how in the world can it be worth it?

For those who don't know, there are two different conditions referred to as diabetes, known as (what else?) type 1 and type 2. Type 1 is characterized by the lack of insulin production by the body (or, "outsourced" insulin production) and little ability to regulate blood glucose levels. Type 2 is characterized by the inability of the body to use the insulin that's being produced. There are significant differences between the management of those two conditions.

As a type 1, I manage blood glucose levels almost minute-by-minute, balancing activity/exercise, insulin levels, food, and taking into account as many other factors as I can, like stress, that head cold, etc..., and with a lot of finger sticks. I get best results with carbs and fats/protiens before and during my rides to maintain a safe & effective blood glucose level. Exercise tends to suck the glucose out of circulation, so I need something coming in to balance that. A mix of carbs, fats, and protiens gives me a blood glucose rise that matches my draw-down.

Note that diabetes is a very individual condition. What works for me might not work at all for someone else. There's a lot of rules of thumb, but it mostly comes down to trial & error. The bottom line is not what you eat, but blood glucose levels.

Well put. I'd like to point out that just because I may want a snickers bar, doesnt mean that I'm going to eat it. There's a lot of food like that. In truth, I'm better for not having those things I may crave. But I agree on two points: 1. that diabetes is a personal condition, and as such has to be dealt with on an individual basis. 2. You've got to use what you're body requires for fuel, ie carbs, proteins and fat. It all matters. The issue is how much of what. It is about the glucose levels, regulating that is the key. I can eat 10 grapes and almost peak, but I can eat a quarter of watermelon and not feel a thing.
My sole purpose in this thread has been to see what others are doing, look at those suggestions and see what may work for me, albeit, trial and error. I'm sure that there are ideas that others have that I havent thought of yet.
Will I start eating snickers bars during rides...probably not. But I'm still looking for that combination of 'real' food and diabetic safe food that will help me finish my long rides without the hard crash. There in lies the trick.
I appreciate all the info.......keep it coming! That goes for 'normal' people too....they still have to find the right combination to keep them going.

I recall reading somewhere that exercising muscles do not require insulin to suck sugar out of the bloodstream. I recall on one century, my friend ate his favorite snack, a SNICKERS bar, for the first time since being diagnosed. It did not spike his blood sugar. However, since he had not been eating sweet things for so long, the SNICKERS bar tasted "funny". Pat, you're correct. Snickers is the same as GU and energy-drinks once it's digested. Comes across the intestinal walls into the bloodstream as glucose/sucrose/fructose, your mucle-cells won't have any idea what the source was. Due to the limited rate of digestion & absorption of 250-300 cal/hr max, your blood-glucose level will always drop as you ride no matter what you eat (assuming you're riding at 500-800 cal/hr rate, beginning to fit-rider levels). Your muscles are always burning off glycogen & glucose faster than you can replenish them.

What slowrider1 wants to do is the same as any other ride who doesn't want to bonk at 50-70miles is to eat. Rather than trying to take it in all at once when you start feeling light-headed and woozi, start eating early, about 30-minutes into the ride. Take in 200-cal/hr and that should let you extend your distance to 80-100miles before bonking... depending upon pace... Monitor your blood-sugar, you'll notice that it steadily drops during the ride... just drops slower when you eat.

2. You've got to use what you're body requires for fuel, ie carbs, proteins and fat. It all matters. The issue is how much of what. It is about the glucose levels, regulating that is the key. I can eat 10 grapes .

actually, your body has zero requirement for carbs. good healthy carbs contain stuf that's good for you but nothing that is essential. You can live quite heartily on fat and protein alone. you CANNOT do so on only carbs...

also, once you've trained yourself to exercise using fat as fuel rather than glucose ( by switching to a low carb diet and continuing to exercise), bonking isnt an issue. bonking happens when you run out of your two hours or so supply of glucose. you have an endless supply of fat, even if you are lance armstrong or mick jagger skinny!

I dont have diabetes, so maybe I dont understand the issues, but I do know a low carb diet does wonders for the condition, type 2 particularly, and that you simply dont need to be fueling your workouts with glucose... so if you are diabetic and you are doing so... well, it just seems crazy to me...

Pat, you're correct. Snickers is the same as GU and energy-drinks once it's digested. Comes across the intestinal walls into the bloodstream as glucose/sucrose/fructose, your mucle-cells won't have any idea what the source was. Due to the limited rate of digestion & absorption of 250-300 cal/hr max, your blood-glucose level will always drop as you ride no matter what you eat (assuming you're riding at 500-800 cal/hr rate, beginning to fit-rider levels). Your muscles are always burning off glycogen & glucose faster than you can replenish them.

What slowrider1 wants to do is the same as any other ride who doesn't want to bonk at 50-70miles is to eat. Rather than trying to take it in all at once when you start feeling light-headed and woozi, start eating early, about 30-minutes into the ride. Take in 200-cal/hr and that should let you extend your distance to 80-100miles before bonking... depending upon pace... Monitor your blood-sugar, you'll notice that it steadily drops during the ride... just drops slower when you eat.


Danno,

That would square with my friend's experience. His blood sugar slowly but surely declined during a long ride. I think what worked best for him on a long ride was eating often and early, a sort of preemptive action.

Pat

well, it just seems crazy to me...

Not the first time I've been called crazy :).

Actually, life out here at the end of the bell curve can be quite interesting... you should see the view!

When taking Glucovance several years ago, it was easy to reach the bonk point, and it came on rather suddenly. After losing a substantial amount of weight through diet and exercise, I came off the meds. Now, I will have a Glucerna drink before a longer ride, usually with an Edge Protien drink as well. About an hour into the ride, I'll eat a Balance Bar (one of the chocolate cake types) and perhaps another after another hour. Of course I hydrate well also. Once at home, I'll usually have a banana, some grapes or a pear. If I eat one of these snacks soon after a ride, it has no noticeable impact on glucose levels. It's as though I was still exercising. Generally, my longer rides are 2.5 to 3 hours. No bonking.

Hope this is helpful.

If I eat one of these snacks soon after a ride, it has no noticeable impact on glucose levels. It's as though I was still exercising.

In effect, you are still exercising. The increased metabolism will continue for some time after stopping. The liver also takes up some additional glucose to replenish its stores.

Note that your quickest way out of a low-blood-glucose bonk is simple carbohydrates, however, they won't usually last long.

I'm a type 2 diabetic. On longer rides, I'll eat a BALANCE bar about half way thru. They are about 250 calories and have a good spread of carbs, protein and fat so you don't get the sugar high and then crash. My medicine is 2 pills a day, one in the AM and one in the PM. I'll skip the PM pill if I've gone on long distance rides or worked out heavy that day.

Also, I use a heart rate monitor on my rides so I can stay in Zone 2 and Zone 3 where you burn more fat than sugar. Before that I would go faster and be in Zone 4 and Zone 5 which just burns sugar and I would bonk after an hour. Now I can ride for hours if I watch my heart rate.

I get the BALANCE bars at Sam's Club / Costco where you get a box for about $12.

Mark
1998 Lemond Alpe D' Huez (go fast days)
2003 Litespeed Blue Ridge (go long days)
2001 Gary Fisher Tassajara (up and down days)

I'm hearing this low carb diet thing and am looking into it My carb intake is regulated now, but I may need to revise the plan..........thanks

Also..burning fat is the plan..I've got enough to spare, heck that's part of the mission and why I work so hard. Plus along with excess body fat, I'm short and compact, been a weight lifter most of my life and trying to lean out is a new experience for me. But thats the goal! At 5' 7" I have a 38" waist and 48" chest and right now tip the scales at 225. I've begun to realize that as I'm getting older I am A: finding that I dont want to do all the lifting (would rather ride) and B: am literally tired of carrying it all around. I'm not sure how low I can go, but right now hitting 200 is goal 1.

Just an aside, it IS possible to stress your body (a type I diabetic's) hard enough during a workout to raise your blood sugar, not lower it. Little known fact.

For extended riding is anyone one the opinion that a diabetics view of strict adherance nutrition may give one and advantage. Simply for the fact that someone who is succesfully managing thier diabetes through diet is more in tune with what thier individual energy needs that are for the activity that they are doing.

Is there something to be learned from someone that has a chronic condition, who manages thier condition so that they can remain active yet suffer minimal symptoms?

Using a framework that a diabetic uses, or something simmilar, to keep caloric management so the body uses the calories in a most efficient manner in order to avoid symptoms; whatever the symptoms would be, of course, would depend on the individual.

Also..burning fat is the plan..I've got enough to spare, heck that's part of the mission and why I work so hard. Plus along with excess body fat, I'm short and compact, been a weight lifter most of my life and trying to lean out is a new experience for me. But thats the goal! At 5' 7" I have a 38" waist and 48" chest and right now tip the scales at 225. I've begun to realize that as I'm getting older I am A: finding that I dont want to do all the lifting (would rather ride) and B: am literally tired of carrying it all around. I'm not sure how low I can go, but right now hitting 200 is goal 1.

you should check out the following sources:

books:
dr. berstein's diabetic solution
stuart middleman's "slow burn"
phil maffetone's "the maffetone method"
Younger Next Year (althought I would ignore their anti-sat. fat position)


web sites:
the diabetic threads on forum.lowcarber.org
www.diabetesincontrol.com
theomnivore.com
westonaprice.org
www.thincs.org
www.weightoftheevidence.com
www.proteinpower.com/drmike/


there's more but that's all I can think of at the moment...

good luck!

This is all good info. I have been a Type 1 for 30 years now and am in good control and no complications. I have been riding bikes very casually my whole life and have recently gotten in to road biking. I usually ride between 10 to 20 miles but would like to do longer rides. I have wondered how other type 1 diabetics do this. I usually just slightly load up on carbs before riding and this has worked well for me as my levels have never gotten above 150 and are usually below 100 when I'm done. How often do you test on long rides? I'm fairly new to biking but not to diabetes so anything I can learn will help.
Yes you can stress your body to raise your glucose but it is usually your liver that putting out the glucose from adrenaline. I know mine will spike under stress and extreme conditions. Everybody is different and what works for one may not work for another.

I usually ride between 10 to 20 miles but would like to do longer rides. I have wondered how other type 1 diabetics do this.

I start out with a bag of trail mix (Kar Nut unsalted original mix - just seeds, nuts, and raisins; about an even mix of fats, carbs, and protien). If I'm not riding, I usually have to do an extended bolus for this, so I figured this would carry me for a while.

I've been testing just after my rides as I've increased the distance. I found that when I got to around 55km, I would start getting blood sugars below 70, so I figured I'd need to start eating at around 50km.

On my longest ride so far, 75km, I ate a a pack of peanut butter crackers at 50km and made it to 75km with a reasonably BG, so I figure I'll need one more pack of crackers to make it to 100km. This is at about a 27kph pace

I figure with this strategy, I don't have to carry my meter and stop to test. I can get the data I need as I increase my distance. If you're going to go out and do a century with no existing data, I'd suggest you probably want to test every hour or so to establish a baseline. "Your mileage may vary."

Nice to know that someone has gotten farther than me without complications :) (coming up on 20 years since diagnosis).

I start out with a bag of trail mix (Kar Nut unsalted original mix - just seeds, nuts, and raisins; about an even mix of fats, carbs, and protien). If I'm not riding, I usually have to do an extended bolus for this, so I figured this would carry me for a while.

I've been testing just after my rides as I've increased the distance. I found that when I got to around 55km, I would start getting blood sugars below 70, so I figured I'd need to start eating at around 50km.

On my longest ride so far, 75km, I ate a a pack of peanut butter crackers at 50km and made it to 75km with a reasonably BG, so I figure I'll need one more pack of crackers to make it to 100km. This is at about a 27kph pace

I figure with this strategy, I don't have to carry my meter and stop to test. I can get the data I need as I increase my distance. If you're going to go out and do a century with no existing data, I'd suggest you probably want to test every hour or so to establish a baseline. "Your mileage may vary."

Nice to know that someone has gotten farther than me without complications :) (coming up on 20 years since diagnosis).


Thanks for all the info. I work hard at it but as you know it is not easy. It is like having another full time job that goes 24 hrs a day 7 days a week.

JLauren

I've been a diabetic for 40 years now and no problems. The most important thing is keeeeeeep on keeeeping on :-) Good things are comming. If your not on an insulin pump GET ON ONE!!!! I spent 35 of those years on shots an the control was ok but not great, now I have great control (A!C 6.1 as of last week) without much effort compared to before. Its soooo easy

I ride about 100 to 120 miles a week because i commute on my bike. I like to eat bagels w/ PB when I do a long ride. I also turn my pump back 50%

Thanks for the info. I signed up for lowcarbers after I saw your post. There are a lot of great people there as well and many cyclists. This is the kind of stuff I've been looking for.
And my hats off to those cyclists that are type 1 (or 2), who have made cycling a part of their lifestyle. I dont have to deal with insulin shots, but my father in-law did, and it was an obvious pain (no pun intended). So kudos and thanks for the inspiration.:D

If anyone is still following this topic, I managed my first 100km ride today.

Started out with the trail mix as usual, a pack of crackers at about 52 and 75km, water, water, and more water, and finished up with the antimatter gone, warp drive a hopeless pile o' lead, impulse drive failing, an average speed of 26.35kph (the wind was no help - is it ever?) and a blood sugar of 94 :).

actually, your body has zero requirement for carbs. good healthy carbs contain stuf that's good for you but nothing that is essential. You can live quite heartily on fat and protein alone. you CANNOT do so on only carbs...

also, once you've trained yourself to exercise using fat as fuel rather than glucose ( by switching to a low carb diet and continuing to exercise), bonking isnt an issue. bonking happens when you run out of your two hours or so supply of glucose. you have an endless supply of fat, even if you are lance armstrong or mick jagger skinny!

Umm. No.

It's true that you having adequate fat supplies isn't an issue for the vast majority of people. But when you are exercising, you are burning a combination of fat and glycogen, with more glycogen being burned at higher intensities. When you run out of the glycogen stored in your liver, you bonk, and your body goes into survival mode, to provide enough glycogen to keep your brain going. Your muscles can survive on fat alone - but at a much lower rate - or they can tear themselves down to create glycogen.

Both of those are *bad*.

Now, how long it takes depends on a lot of factors - how hard you're exercising, what you've eaten recently, how much glycogen you have stored in your liver. If you ride right when you get up without eating anything, you have a good chance of bonking fairly quickly. If you had a good pre-ride meal and/or sports drink, you can last longer.

All the references I've seen from cycling coaches say that low-carb is not a way to improve exercise performance.

If anyone is still following this topic, I managed my first 100km ride today.

Started out with the trail mix as usual, a pack of crackers at about 52 and 75km, water, water, and more water, and finished up with the antimatter gone, warp drive a hopeless pile o' lead, impulse drive failing, an average speed of 26.35kph (the wind was no help - is it ever?) and a blood sugar of 94 :).

That is fantastic. Someday I will get to the 100K point. Starting out slow and trying to see what happens to my blood sugars during a ride. Signed up for a 30 miler in Philadelphia to benifit the American Diabetes Assoc. Got to start somewhere!

Umm. No.

It's true that you having adequate fat supplies isn't an issue for the vast majority of people. But when you are exercising, you are burning a combination of fat and glycogen, with more glycogen being burned at higher intensities. When you run out of the glycogen stored in your liver, you bonk, and your body goes into survival mode, to provide enough glycogen to keep your brain going. Your muscles can survive on fat alone - but at a much lower rate - or they can tear themselves down to create glycogen.

Both of those are *bad*.

Now, how long it takes depends on a lot of factors - how hard you're exercising, what you've eaten recently, how much glycogen you have stored in your liver. If you ride right when you get up without eating anything, you have a good chance of bonking fairly quickly. If you had a good pre-ride meal and/or sports drink, you can last longer.

All the references I've seen from cycling coaches say that low-carb is not a way to improve exercise performance.

ummm no yerself, ha haaa

there obviously a lot of debate about this, and just because all the references say so dont make it right, you know...

anyway, if you are healthy and free of diabetes and want to fuel your workouts with carbs for a sliight performance advantage, that's one thing. But if you do have diabetes, that is a completely different story. It is perfectly possible to fuel long workouts on a very low carb diet (I do it all the time), and if you have a diabetes, well, it only makes sense to check that out. Maybe it's true that you can only ride slower, (I dont buy it), but even so,if you have diabetes, so what?

If anyone is still following this topic, I managed my first 100km ride today.

Started out with the trail mix as usual, a pack of crackers at about 52 and 75km, water, water, and more water, and finished up with the antimatter gone, warp drive a hopeless pile o' lead, impulse drive failing, an average speed of 26.35kph (the wind was no help - is it ever?) and a blood sugar of 94 :).

Good going on the 100 km ride, did you check your BGs during the ride at all? I like to eat some fatsand proteins with my carbs on long rides to slow the breakdown of the carbs, it seems to slow the drop. I dont remember if you use a pump or not, but if so, checking your BGs a couple times between eating to determine if your basal rate change is correct. I run mine at 30% while biking.

Good going on the 100 km ride, did you check your BGs during the ride at all?

No, but I did collect a lot of "ending blood sugars" as i was increasing my distance. Every time I stepped up the distance another 10 or 15km, I'd get another data point along the way to 100km. That's how I arrived at my current feeding schedule.


I like to eat some fatsand proteins with my carbs on long rides to slow the breakdown of the carbs, it seems to slow the drop.

Me too. Everything I'm eating before, during, and after is a mix.


I dont remember if you use a pump or not, but if so, checking your BGs a couple times between eating to determine if your basal rate change is correct. I run mine at 30% while biking.

I do. Oddly enough (although being odd isn't odd at all for me :)), I haven't had the need to make any basal adjustments. Perhaps could do it with less food if I did, but eating less is not an objective of mine.

I have to lower my basal when biking, otherwise I get real low, real fast. More than anything else biking lowers my blood sugars dramatically. I rode with a guy once who didn't lower his basal but instead ate a granola bar every 30 minutes.

Yup, as was said earlier, you gotta do what works for You.

If anyone is still following this topic, I managed my first 100km ride today.

Started out with the trail mix as usual, a pack of crackers at about 52 and 75km, water, water, and more water, and finished up with the antimatter gone, warp drive a hopeless pile o' lead, impulse drive failing, an average speed of 26.35kph (the wind was no help - is it ever?) and a blood sugar of 94 :).

Definitely still following. There are alot of good discussions coming out of this (and some interesting arguments too), so I'm seeing other views on excersing with diabetes. And BTW: way to go on the ride. I'm fairly slow (12-14mph average, as the season goes) but then my goal has never been speed. I like the idea of a 'snack' mix and I am working on a sampler. Picked up a hydration pack Saturday, so I can carry plenty of water and a bottle or two of a mix. Just have to experiment and find out what works best for me.

Keep up the riding, I hope to catch up to you before the seasons out.

I am trying different means of hydration also. I carry one water bottle and one bottle of a drink that will elivate my BG. Also carry some granola bars for longer rides. Have not needed to much yet but always be prepaired. I have been averaging about 17.5 MPH in 15 to 20 mile rides so far and this will really bring down my BG. It has been intersting but I really have to plan it out before I ride. I am hoping to talk to more diabetics on the Tour de Cure ride in Philadelphia this June.

Would be interesting to plot BG vs. time on a graph. Maybe draw separate lines for different rides of different intensities to see how BG responds...

Would be interesting to plot BG vs. time on a graph. Maybe draw separate lines for different rides of different intensities to see how BG responds...

The only way that would produce anything useful is if it was completed in a lab. Too many external forces affect your glucose levels from hydration, stress, food eaten the day before, previous exercise the day or more before, illness, age of insulin, temperature, etc... it would be very hard to control all the variables in order to plot a useful graph showing the change in glucose levels versus time/exersion of a multiple different rides.

Ok, forget comparing different rides. Would be interesting to see how BG varies during a single ride though..

I'm a type I on an insulin pump and have found that it doesn't really matter where you get your carbohydrates from, as long as you are getting enough for your distance. The longer rides typically will require something with some fats and protein so that it slows down your absorption and lasts longer (a sandwich, chocolate milk, whatever agrees with your stomach). I find that mixing granola bars, fruit and nut bars and energy drinks will get me 60+ miles, century distances require something a bit more substantial.

Type I on an insulin pump , me too! I think the little packets for those really low's of honey,(McD's or Stinger brand in some bike shops) works well for me. The PayDay idea is appealling as for the sugar/fat/protein/salt maybe an ideal snack. I use the Clif bars as they are good and don't slow down(!) my digestive track.(You know what I mean?) the Stinger packs are good to get you back in a hurry. Here for webpage. (http://www.honeystinger.com/)
I too think the methods use are very personal. I rode across most of the western US with my pump turned off when I rode, minimal basal rate when stopped for the night. No problems, just look after it. I nearly wore out my finger with finger-sticks. Record you results and note the conditions you were riding in. My Two cents..... Best, John

I am trying different means of hydration also. I carry one water bottle and one bottle of a drink that will elivate my BG. Also carry some granola bars for longer rides. Have not needed to much yet but always be prepaired. I have been averaging about 17.5 MPH in 15 to 20 mile rides so far and this will really bring down my BG. It has been intersting but I really have to plan it out before I ride. I am hoping to talk to more diabetics on the Tour de Cure ride in Philadelphia this June.

I'd be interested in hearing what you find out. I've been looking over all the posts and picking out the ideas that seem most appealing to try out. Lots of good suggestions out there. I've been riding indoors for a bit now, and managed to get out last Sunday for a short ride. Sure felt good to be out. I'm planning to get back on schedule in the next couple of weeks so long as work and life cooperate!

All the references I've seen from cycling coaches say that low-carb is not a way to improve exercise performance.

I'm speaking as someone who isn't diabetic, but who has lost ~180 lbs on a low carb diet, and generally advocates them. However, in my personal experience, I have to agree with ericgu. I've only been cycling for less than a year, and only started experimenting with higher carb intake in the past couple of months. I was pretty skeptical that it would make any difference, other than screwing up my fat-burning acclimated metabolism. But in those couple of months, I've found that my cycling fitness, especially hill climbing ability, has increased dramatically...it has been much more noticeable rate of improvement than the previous 8 months or so. I only eat "forbidden" foods (e.g. bananas) immediately before, during, and after rides though. This has not effected my lipolysis rates much at all. I can come back from a ride, drink a whey protein shake and eat two bananas, and still test out with strong ketone levels an hour later. I also have not noticed any increase in cravings for sugary foods.

Plus I love long rides, and the experience of riding has been much more enjoyable because I used to hit a wall after about 3 hours in the saddle where my legs would just feel dead, and the rest of the ride would be torture. Now I can go for 7 or 8 hours and still feel as strong if not stronger at the end of the ride as at the beginning (though by that point I will start to develop soreness in my legs and start to feel sort of out of it, which I assume means I am reaching true endurance limits). I also sometimes used to feel sick about an hour after I stopped exercising (a very strong queasy/motion sick feeling), which doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure what caused this. Maybe low blood sugar?

I generally try to take in about 20-40g of carbs before a ride, and about 20-40 and hour thereafter, plus another 20-40 for recovery. The ability to have some previously forbidden foods like Clif bars, bananas, newtons, PBJ, etc. is also a nice motivation to keep exercising.

I also sometimes used to feel sick about an hour after I stopped exercising (a very strong queasy/motion sick feeling), which doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure what caused this. Maybe low blood sugar?Try monitoring your blood-sugar during this time. Most likely it's been all sucked into your muscles to restore the glycogen-supply and your brain's being starved.

Also try riding FAST at your LT level for 2-hours+ (22-25mph+), once you've bonked a couple of times, you can then compare low-carb vs. iso-caloric replenishment. ;)