Commuting - Oh Shooooot.

Yes, it happened. Today I saw a Walmart Schwinn Varsity at school. And as an added bonus, it's drop drop handlebars were turned up side down. Yes, upside down.

Not cool.

Sometimes the entire bike rack at my school will be walmart or target bikes, 8 or more bikes in a row. Maybe 1 in 50 bikes is a road bike of any type. Only about 1 in 30 uses anything but a 10 dollar cable lock.

They get people where they need to go though I imagine. Everyone isn't a bike nut. I saw upside down riser bars today....looked terrible. Upside down (non chopped) drop bars must be ugly as sin.

Hahah. Must've been a sight.
The Varsity actually has a pretty decent frame, the whole bike weighs in at roughly 25 pounds (albeit with ****ty components and a double crankset). It's worth checking out if you're really strapped for cash; you can go to your LBS and swap out a few components for $50 and you've got yourself a truly 'entry level' road bike.

No matter how ugly or cluelessly set up the bike is, it can always be worse. They could have driven a car.

Hahah. Must've been a sight.
The Varsity actually has a pretty decent frame, the whole bike weighs in at roughly 25 pounds (albeit with ****ty components and a double crankset). It's worth checking out if you're really strapped for cash; you can go to your LBS and swap out a few components for $50 and you've got yourself a truly 'entry level' road bike.
Perhaps the cyclists who owned the bikes in question were more interested in commuting to school by bicycle than getting a "road bike" or impressing those enthusiasts who think a "properly" setup de rigueur road bike is required to commute to school. All the local road bike enthusiasts apparently don't commute with them to school, hence their absence from the bike racks filled with bikes of actual bike commuters.

i have seen so many upside down drop bars on the trail. when my motobecane road bike from mid 70's was given to me from my friends mom, it had the drops upside down.(she knew some one in miami who races bikes, and he gave it to her in like 79'. she road it like 5 times)

i have seen so many upside down drop bars on the trail. when my motobecane road bike from mid 70's was given to me from my friends mom, it had the drops upside down.(she knew some one in miami who races bikes, and he gave it to her in like 79'. she road it like 5 times)
There is a reason of course for modifying bikes with drop bars. Drop bars can be dang uncomfortable and/or impractical for lots of people; especially those who are interested in cycling to school, work, wherever without training their body to endure the posture of a racer boy.

No matter how ugly or cluelessly set up the bike is, it can always be worse. They could have driven a car.
Very good point.

Holy crap. My touring bike with drop bars makes me a racer.
I think not.
Anyhow, with the addition of a new pair of bib shorts and a jersey maybe....

I know I wouldn't leave my roadie locked to a rack outside a school! It dosen't get left anywhere outside if I'm not beside it. For that I use a beater. I can't help but smile at the mental image of a Madone 5.9 with the bars turned up though!!!

I have to agree that there are ways to set up a drop bar (besides flipping it upside down) that are comfortable and non-racer boy oriented. But heck, if people are happy with their bars pointed to the sky by all means let them have at it.

Holy crap. My touring bike with drop bars makes me a racer.
I think not.
Anyhow, with the addition of a new pair of bib shorts and a jersey maybe....

Only if it's a "Team" jersey!:D

How about a full kit? :p

Even more racer like? :)

In the Netherlands, you will see thousands of bikes parked in front of train stations. Virtually all of the bikes are the Dutch equivalent of a Wal-Mart bike, because, in the Dutch way of thinking, spending a lot money on something just invites it to get stolen, and it's just transport anyway. I'd love to see thousands of Wal-Mart bike on the streets.

In the Netherlands, you will see thousands of bikes parked in front of train stations. Virtually all of the bikes are the Dutch equivalent of a Wal-Mart bike, because, in the Dutch way of thinking, spending a lot money on something just invites it to get stolen, and it's just transport anyway. I'd love to see thousands of Wal-Mart bike on the streets.
Yep, and you'll probably see a million bikes before you'll see one Madrone or its ilk used for daily commuting.

No I take that back, some people can't tell time unless it is done with the "best" watch like a Rolex, and some might think a Madrone is the most "best" tool for commuting too. You just won't find such well equipped cyclists commuting in any place where cycling is actually considered a normal activity conducted by people who are not enthusiasts.

The Dutch and the cyclists of other countries where bike commuting is considered acceptable behavior by the general public, believe a bike used for frequent commuting needs to be properly equipped to commute, not go on a cross country tour or enter a race. Hence the bikes come equipped with fenders, lights, racks, comfortable geometries, etc. And all for a price far better than seen displayed on the typical "product" found in a US LBS.

If I'm going to commute on a xmart bike for 60 miles RT, you might as well rip my spine out now.

If I'm going to commute on a xmart bike for 60 miles RT, you might as well rip my spine out now.
I seriously doubt if 99.99% of the world's cycling commuters (or people who would even think about using a bike for commuting) could care less about what equipment is suitable for someone who chooses to cycle commute 60miles daily. Or maybe would care as much as they would about picking their own equipment based on what is best for the Tour de France. Both scenarios are about as relevant to their normal cycling routines.

If someone is preparing for a race or chooses to cycle commute 60 miles a day, by all means he should choose a suitable bike. But don't think for a second that such specialized equipment is considered the standard by which other commuting cyclists should judge their own requirements.

Obviously, being a bicycle hobbyist, I wouldn't be caught dead on any x-mart bike; however most people don't ride 140-170 miles a week, nor to they lose sleep at night thinking about what sort of upgrade to do next. If Walmart is selling Schwinn Varsities, I'd say thats a good thing. The x-marts around here only carry BMX and full suspension mountain bike look alikes. For similar money a Varsity is way better that a full-suspension Magna.

I was in Wal-Mart, last week. They had three Schwinn Varsity's on the rack and all three had the drop bars installed upside down. Only wish I had a camera with me.

I volunteer for the MSU bike project and basically we take old donated bikes, fix them up and lease them out to community members. A lot of our customers are international students. its really interesting to see which bikes different people gravitate towards. A lot of americal students want the xmart full suspension, 21 speeds, even though we have a totally flat campus. On the other hand most of the european students head for the singlespeed/coaster brake/three speed/ fendered bikes. People really have different ideas of what their ideal commuter is going to be and it appears that it really is culturally influenced.

I volunteer for the MSU bike project and basically we take old donated bikes, fix them up and lease them out to community members. A lot of our customers are international students. its really interesting to see which bikes different people gravitate towards. A lot of americal students want the xmart full suspension, 21 speeds, even though we have a totally flat campus. On the other hand most of the european students head for the singlespeed/coaster brake/three speed/ fendered bikes. People really have different ideas of what their ideal commuter is going to be and it appears that it really is culturally influenced.
Very interesting, and not a surprising observation, Chipko. Glancing at some of the threads on this "commuter" list should give a pretty clear indication that the priorities and equipment requirements of many cycling enthusiasts who may (or may not) commute (and like to discuss bicycling on the Internet) significantly differ from the priorities and requirements of cycling commuters found commuting everyday for real, elsewhere in the non-enthusiast world.

I've noticed that most people who commute around here do so on Wal-Mart bikes. I ride my Lemond quite a bit, but I have secure, indoor parking. If I had to leave it outside somewhere, I'd ride my 15 year old Wal-Mart MTB. I think alot of the hardcore bike commuters do so because they have to. (DUI, to young to drive, can't afford a car, etc.) In this case most aren't likely to spend $1000 + on the bike they ride to work. So, Huffy, Roadmaster, Next are the bikes of choice.

I agree with you FLBandit, except for describing the "hardcore bike commuters" as those who "have to" because of DUI, age, poverty. As soon as their probation ends, they reach driving age, or make enough money to afford a car, how many will continue to ride a bike to work? I doubt very many.

I'd always considered the hard core to be those who ride a bike because they love it and can't stand to waste an opportunity to ride.

Just a small point, and I hope I'm not derailing the topic.

Hardcore was a poor word choice on my part. I should have just said most of the commuters I'm familiar with. You are correct in that most people will drive when they are able. A guy where I work bought a Wal-Mart roadbike awhile back for transportation to work. We talked quite a bit about bikes and riding etc. Well, once he got his tax return he got a cheap car and then the attitude was "Thank goodness I don't have to ride that bike anymore". A hardcore commuter would have used the money on a better bike and gear.

Hardcore was a poor word choice on my part. I should have just said most of the commuters I'm familiar with. You are correct in that most people will drive when they are able. A guy where I work bought a Wal-Mart roadbike awhile back for transportation to work. We talked quite a bit about bikes and riding etc. Well, once he got his tax return he got a cheap car and then the attitude was "Thank goodness I don't have to ride that bike anymore". A hardcore commuter would have used the money on a better bike and gear.

I believe it. That reminds me: the other day my wife said "we just got our tax returns back and we're going to get a refund. What do you want to do with it?"

I was thinking don't say new bike, don't say new bike, don't say new bike. I opened my mouth and out came "How about a new bike?"

D'oh!

Hardcore was a poor word choice on my part. I should have just said most of the commuters I'm familiar with.
IMO the use of the term "Hardcore" in this context is almost synonymous with roadie, club cyclist or cycling enthusiast/hobbiest, or all. "Cycling commuters" include many more slices of the public, whom can be found worldwide, especially if one looks beyond the perspective of the North American road cycling enthusiast. These non-hardcore commuters don't necessarily take their equipment nor themselves so seriously as the "Hardcore".

IMO the use of the term "Hardcore" in this context is almost synonymous with roadie, club cyclist or cycling enthusiast/hobbiest, or all. "Cycling commuters" include many more slices of the public, whom can be found worldwide, especially if one looks beyond the perspective of the North American road cycling enthusiast. These non-hardcore commuters don't necessarily take their equipment nor themselves so seriously as the "Hardcore".

I doubt there are many who ride to work everyday who wouldn't describe themselves as "enthusiasts." Even if they don't race or belong to a club, you have to have a certain level of enthusiasm to ride a bike in traffic and the weather.

The other difference between the European commuter and the Canadian/USA commuter - the distance. I am sure there are a lot less people over there who commute 10 miles or more. It is the same situation as busses/trains - everything is more spread out here, so transport choices are different. Why buy a racer bike when you are going 1 mile to everything you need?

I doubt there are many who ride to work everyday who wouldn't describe themselves as "enthusiasts." Even if they don't race or belong to a club, you have to have a certain level of enthusiasm to ride a bike in traffic and the weather.

I suspect in europe and in many of the world's poorer regions, there are many bike commuters who are not at all enthusiasts. People who ride their bikes because they can afford a bike and not a car, and people who don't use a car because the problems of traffic and parking make cars so darn inconvenient.

I suspect in europe and in many of the world's poorer regions, there are many bike commuters who are not at all enthusiasts. People who ride their bikes because they can afford a bike and not a car, and people who don't use a car because the problems of traffic and parking make cars so darn inconvenient.
I suspect you have never been in countries like The Netherlands, Japan or Germany, and don't know what you are talking about if you think that the cyclists there are only those who can't afford cars. People cycle there in very large numbers because cycling makes so much sense, and the bike commuters don't obsess about or demand bicycles that are stylishly appropriate for racing, "training", or touring from one side of the country to the other.

Also do you you think driving/parking a car is convenient in downtown areas of large US cities, especially in the East?

The other difference between the European commuter and the Canadian/USA commuter - the distance. I am sure there are a lot less people over there who commute 10 miles or more. It is the same situation as busses/trains - everything is more spread out here, so transport choices are different. Why buy a racer bike when you are going 1 mile to everything you need?
What makes you think that there are very many people, or significant numbers/percentages of cyclists, in any country, willing to commute 10 miles or more each way on a regular basis by bicycle if they have any alternative? And if they have no alternative wouldn't consider moving closer to their destination or change destinations rather than depend on cycle commuting?

I know there are enthusiasts who do it; I am one of them, but I don't fool myself into thinking that such long distance commuting is anything but a fringe activity by a fringe group of cyclists. Please no extrapolations from a poll of Bike Forum Members.

I'd just like to say a few words in defense of Wal-Mart bikes. My current ride is a sub-$100, hand-me-down Roadmaster, originally purchased at Wal-Mart. My budget is limited, and I just haven't had the money to spend on a bike this year. I ride about 10-20 miles a day; since August, I've ridden the Roadmaster over 3000 miles, and it's performed just fine. I bought new tires and upgraded the pedals and handlebars, and I've adjusted the rear derailleur a couple of times, but otherwise it's been trouble-free.

I've gotten fresh air and sunshine (and sometimes rain); I've burned thousands of calories; I've learned a lot about riding; I've had fun; and I've even commuted a little. I might have skipped cycling until I saved $500-$1000 to buy a "real" bike, but why?

I've gotten fresh air and sunshine (and sometimes rain); I've burned thousands of calories; I've learned a lot about riding; I've had fun; and I've even commuted a little. I might have skipped cycling until I saved $500-$1000 to buy a "real" bike, but why?
Good question, Mild Al. It will be interesting if anyone can provide a sensible expaination why your bike isn't "real" enough.

I'd just like to say a few words in defense of Wal-Mart bikes.
I might have skipped cycling until I saved $500-$1000 to buy a "real" bike, but why?

I'm with you, brother. My bike is a step up from that, a $300 Giant Cypress. But every time I start talking with certain people, they look down their noses at it and say "You ride so much, you deserve to buy yourself a NICE bike."

Sorry, I **LIKE** my bike. OK, I wouldn't ride it across the US (at least not without a few upgrades). But I've got close to 4000 miles on it, and I've had to do very little to it apart from lube it and replace consumables (brake pads, tires, chains). OK, the rear wheel was built for ****, and I built a new one for it. Apart from that I just bolted on a bunch of accessories and just ride.

Seems like all these people talk about is how I could go faster on a better bike. They don't seem to believe me when I tell them that I am not really interested in going faster; I just want to ride. I rode with a club exactly once, and I am just not into that stuff. I go exactly how fast I want to go, and if I fall behind, well, see ya.

I read this thread yesterday and have been thinking about it ever since. I'm sure I'll get flamed and maybe more, but I have to give my opinion. This thread is pathetic and counterproductive as well as in the wrong place. If you want to post crap like this ask the admin to create a "pissed because everyone's not like me" forum and post away. Most of the commuters in here get riled up by people "judging a book by the cover" and assuming you lost your license or have to ride because you got in some sort of trouble and now here you all are critisizing people for COMMUTING?!?!?! Who cares what kind of bike they have, I myself own a Target bike Schwinn SX2000 hardtail mountain bike, it's for Commuting for christ sake not time trials...it had everything I needed, eyelets for a rack and fenders (which I haven't gotten yet but they're on my list) and it was under $200 which was a big deal for me since I was saving for my first child.

Shame on you all who are making assumptions about peoples lives based on the type of bike they ride. I myself would rather EVERYONE have a target/walmart bike as long as they would stay out of their cars.

IMO the use of the term "Hardcore" in this context is almost synonymous with roadie, club cyclist or cycling enthusiast/hobbiest, or all. "Cycling commuters" include many more slices of the public, whom can be found worldwide, especially if one looks beyond the perspective of the North American road cycling enthusiast. These non-hardcore commuters don't necessarily take their equipment nor themselves so seriously as the "Hardcore".

I kind of think the difference in Hardcore commuters vs others (DUI's etc.) is mainly a matter of need. Many people ride because they don't have an alternative. Others ride because they like to. Some have beliefs that lead them this way, some want the exercise cycling provides, and others just like to ride. Most of the latter group have other options, but cycle by choice. I have both a car and a truck (and until recently two motorcycles) but ride my bike to work whenever I can. I just like to ride. To me zipping along on my Lemond, or my ParkPre MTB, or even my 15 year old Roadmaster just makes me feel good.


BTW, I see nothing wrong with this thread here. It may stray a little, but overall it is about commuting.

I kind of think the difference in Hardcore commuters vs others (DUI's etc.) is mainly a matter of need..
I think another difference is in numbers. The community of self proclaimed "Hardcore cyclists" is tiny but for some reason think that their advice is golden for the vast majority of cyclists who are "others". Note that all other cyclists who are considered "others", by the self appointed hardcore (who may or may not commute) are not necessarily lowlifes, though that seems to be the opinion of some of the hardcore roadie elitists.
"Hardcore cyclists" IMO, being those who may think that being equipped for long and/or fast trips including 60 mile daily R/T commutes is a typical bike commuter concern.

It will be interesting if anyone can provide a sensible expaination why your bike isn't "real" enough.

I'm not going to comment on anyone's choice of a bike. If it has wheels and functioning, comfortable components it is "real enough."

Back to the original post of a Schwinn Varsity with upside down drop bars...my complaint against x-mart and low-price bikes is the assembly. Bicycle components are not difficult pieces of equipment, but poor installation can be vary dangerous. Having unskilled employees unboxing and building up any price bike can result in injury or death. I don't care if a bike is inexpensive, but if it is unsafe because of assembly or poor maintenance then it is not worth $0.01 for saving money. Of course, that also depends on the owner.

Back to the original post of a Schwinn Varsity with upside down drop bars...my complaint against x-mart and low-price bikes is the assembly. Bicycle components are not difficult pieces of equipment, but poor installation can be vary dangerous. Having unskilled employees unboxing and building up any price bike can result in injury or death. I don't care if a bike is inexpensive, but if it is unsafe because of assembly or poor maintenance then it is not worth $0.01 for saving money. Of course, that also depends on the owner.

Good point. I'll have to admit that my x-mart bike may not be typical. It's an older-model Roadmaster (with a Made in USA sticker on it!), and my dad was the original owner. I know he did some mods on it, and he may have fixed some of the bugs before I got it.

I didn't mean to say that more expensive bikes aren't worthwhile (I'd like one myself!); I just wanted to point out that I personally have had a good time with my x-mart bike.

And this is a good time for me to relate the experience my good friend had at walmart while looking for a bike for her mother-in-law.

They were looking at bikes when a store employee came up. They explained what they were looking for, and said they wanted to buy the bike unassembled, so they could put it under the tree without giving away what it was. The employee then told them: "Oh you don't want to do that, they all get so beat up in shipping that half the parts are bent and stuff and we have to bend them back before we can even put the bike together". Then she asked what they do if a part breaks and he said they find something that looks close to it and use that instead. He then claimed that this was a problem at "all bike stores".

Needless to say, they left without a bike.

There are plenty of ways to get a bike that is put together better than your average walmart bike, will serve the purposes of even a short commute better, and is more likely to fit you, for the same or a similar price. For the most part the walmart bikes are not worth what you pay for them, I even know someone who had to return the bike he got there because pieces were falling off after less than a week of being ridden 2 miles each way to school.

"Hardcore cyclists" IMO, being those who may think that being equipped for long and/or fast trips including 60 mile daily R/T commutes is a typical bike commuter concern.


*shakes head*
When did I ever say my commute was typical?
Someday you should actually read replies rather than wandering off on a tangent related to whatever voices you are listening to in your head say at that particular time.

Plus, my original response was toward your idiotic assertion that anyone with drop handle bars is a racer.

<-- grumpy and tired of ILTB's lovely posts.

I wouldn't trust the assembly. The parts always seem heavy and built like tanks. X-Mart bikes seem a bad deal to me because $200 (and a little patience) in the used market can get you a great bike with very dependable parts. Far nicer than mountain bikes with fake suspension. Right now, I am biding my time for the garage sales to begin.

my complaint against x-mart and low-price bikes is the assembly.
I've read many anecdotes about shoddy assembly of x-mart and low-price bikes on BF; usually it appears to be from shills for high priced bicycles only sold at the poster's favorite LBS (if not the poster's employer.) I have yet to read anything that indicates buying higher priced bikes at an LBS is any guarantee of better or safer assembly by high paid, highly motivated technicians. I also seem to recall reading of safety recalls for the high priced product as well as the the low cost stuff.

*shakes head*

<-- grumpy and tired of ILTB's lovely posts.
You sure you are not tired as well as grumpy from your 60 miles R/T commute? How often do you commute that distance? What else do you have time for?

I've read many anecdotes about shoddy assembly of x-mart and low-price bikes on BF; usually it appears to be from shills for high priced bicycles only sold at the poster's favorite LBS (if not the poster's employer.) I have yet to read anything that indicates buying higher priced bikes at an LBS is any guarantee of better or safer assembly by high paid, highly motivated technicians. I also seem to recall reading of safety recalls for the high priced product as well as the the low cost stuff.

The front wheel of my youngest cousin's bike from an x-mart failed (the wheel came off) on his second ride. The impact against the bars ruptured his spleen and nearly killed him.

I do not work for, nor have I ever worked for, a bike shop.

I agree that a bike shop is no guarantee against bad assembly, but it is their only business. I like the odds a great deal more. Most shops hire people that are at least bike knowledgeable and have at least one trained mechanic who checks new people’s work. I should imagine it is part of the interview, and I doubt that there are bike specific questions in the hiring process down at the super center.

I go exactly how fast I want to go, and if I fall behind, well, see ya.


Beautiful, just beautiful.

I can't say anything about Wal-Mart, but I worked for Target a couple of summers back in high school. The bikes there were _NOT_ assembled by Target employees, but rather by a rep from the bike manufacturer who came by once a week to do assembly and return repairs.

Edit:
There was, however, no training for the sales people about the bikes.

I go exactly how fast I want to go, and if I fall behind, well, see ya.


Beautiful, just beautiful.
In fact, those words are good commuting cycling advice. Sure beats the "pain is gain" mantra from the speed demon afficianadoes.

Well, I have both a Wal-Mart Bike and a few higher end bikes from the LBS. In my opinion there is no comparison. Riding the two back to back the difference is night and day. I can look at the Roadmaster and see the misalignment of the front wheel with the naked eye. The higher end bikes are manufactured to much closer specs. Do Wal-Mart bikes have a place? Sure! However, if someone is serious about riding a bike from the LBS is the way to go. It doesn't have to be the $10,000.00 Lance replica, but the quality will definately make a huge difference.

If someone is serious about riding a bike from the LBS is the way to go. It doesn't have to be the $10,000.00 Lance replica, but the quality will definately make a huge difference.
Sure; makes sense, as long as the definition of being "serious" is purchasing/riding bikes that have an LBS provenance.
IMO, the use of the phrases, "serious," "real," "hardcore," or "true" are seriously misused/delusional when used to describe oneself or one's assumed comrades as being superior or more knowledgeable than all the "Others" (i.e. not serious, not real, not hardcore, and not true.)