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I went out to the track for practice today...
At the end of the session, I tried my first timed flying 200m .
We practiced it 3 times before I ran it timed. I raced against another guy who was faster than me by a few inches.. He inched me out on the straight away.. but It gave me an incentive to push harder.
I ran it in 13.84 sec.
My gearing was 50x15.
I know I can do much better, specially if I am fresh.
I got to train with a guy who was at the olympics 3 seperate times. He gave me lots of good advice and timed me on the 200m.
I had a blast ! =)
I hope to improve on that time with more practice. :o
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Damn, nice. None of us broke 14 our first time down there. Grumble. = )
not bad, 10 secs is your goal... so push harder now
Congrats!
My first one at the Intro to Racing CLinic was 14.3(49x16)
The next week at the Sprint Tourney i got it down to 13.78(49x14)
My goal is sub 13 by the end of the season.
Have you seen any of the articles on the strategies behind doing the flying 200 and how to apply them to any track you go to? I have read them but dont know where they are? anyone......
When I practice it with other people I have found it much more fun to try to catch someone (let them start a few bike lenghts ahead) instead of doing them by myself
Congrats!
My first one at the Intro to Racing CLinic was 14.3(49x16)
The next week at the Sprint Tourney i got it down to 13.78(49x14)
My goal is sub 13 by the end of the season.
I am going to shoot for sub 13's as well. Lets see who can get to it first ! =)
not bad, 10 secs is your goal... so push harder now
Holy crap ! I can't imagine doing that almost 4 seconds faster... thats silly fast.
Have you seen any of the articles on the strategies behind doing the flying 200 and how to apply them to any track you go to? I have read them but dont know where they are? anyone......
When I practice it with other people I have found it much more fun to try to catch someone (let them start a few bike lenghts ahead) instead of doing them by myself
Link ?
Fixed Gear Fever had a thread on "TT drop-down marks" it had some discussion of strategy at different tracks.
I have been told that the best line is to take is to make a diagonal line from the apex of turn 2 to the outside of the pole at the start of turn 3. This will give you some benefit from "coming down the hill" will allow you to take the shortest line and be gradual enough that you will not have to do any "twitchy" moves to slow you down.
Depending on your gear and your control of your bike you will stand longer or shorter in the run up to the start.
You should aim to be going full speed at the 200 meter line(not jumping that late, but rather already going full speed and trying to hold it for all you have)
It was mentioned that it is better to getting on top of the gear early and spinout than to be chasing the gear during the TT.
Just bragging, what else...
Hi Ford,
Nice times!! For my first time on the track in 2004, I got a flying 200 of 14.5 on my Bianchi Pista with 48x16 using 15 year old mountain bike shoes with toe clips and single strap. At the time, I was 40 yrs old and the bike was one week old, this was my first track bike. I was riding 200 miles a week as a messenger so I had a good base with plenty of intervals on the streets of NYC. All of that definitely helped. When I rode that 200m I felt that I was spun out of gear but after reading many posts about rpms, I can see that I will have to get many more rpms out of my legs before I can consider myself to be spun out. Still I felt I could have used a few more gear inches. Also smoked nearly a pack of Newports daily. Anyway, like the title of my post says, I'm just bragging. On 04/08/2006 I'm going to do a 6 mile road ITT. That may be enough incentive to persuade me to quit smoking and concentrate on riding faster. Smoking is just something I enjoy, just as I enjoy cycling. The only thing about smoking and cycling is that I'll have to decide how serious I want to become with racing. Since I normally do all my riding alone the ill effect that smoking has on my physical condition doesn't come into play. I enjoy riding hard and in the future I'd like to get serious with Master's racing on the track so I know that I should quit smoking. I love to ride the track bike. The bike just seems to beg you to push it harder and harder.
My only riding in 2005 has been a 5 mile each way daily commute on the track bike. On New Years day 2006, I rode the track bike on a group ride with the local racing club. I impressed the other guys once on that ride by skidding...sliding to a stop on a downhill at a red light. One guy said, "I got to hand it to ya, you didn't wreck anybody!" We rode 40 miles that day and I maintained pace with the leaders and at times pushed the pace. I did not suck wheel that day. I even dropped back a few times to pull a couple of people back up to the pack. The last time I dropped back to pull another rider back up is when I bonked hard. I had to stop for a candy bar and water as we approached the entry back into town. When I stepped off the bike for this stop I had tunnel vision and was seeing spots I was actually close to blacking out. I was fine after I got the snickers bar and water. This ride started at 12noon and I hadn't eaten anything since 2pm the previous day. All this and still smoking Newports nearly a pack a day. Yada, yada, yada,...brag, brag, brag.
This post looks a tad bit long (understatement) sorry to bore anyone who might have read to this point in the post. Oh, well, I guess that writing online somewhat anonymously allows me to go on and on without regard to whether anyone cares to read it or not. I guess this type of writing is better reserved for a blog or a diary but as I'm somewhat anonymous, I'm going to post this anyway. Sorry if this gets posted multiple times but my browser keeps timing out when attempting to submit my reply. I am on DSL.
Peace
TJ
Congrats!
My first one at the Intro to Racing CLinic was 14.3(49x16)
The next week at the Sprint Tourney i got it down to 13.78(49x14)
My goal is sub 13 by the end of the season.
well u r pedaling like 90 cms more using 49x14 than using 49x16... and u just got down less than a second?? I mean... dont take me wrong ok? but think in this one... U just add like 2.5 feets more by revolution in your pedals tight? well if u think that u just keep the same ammount of revolutions U just have get 10 or 12 secs in 200 meters... not less than a second as u did ... u didnt improve not even a second... I think u have to meditate about this and think what was wrong and why u practically didnt improve at all putting more juice to your bike... by the opposite u just did it worse.
The answer is that u r very slow and u need to get more power and as an advice, do not get that (power) using heavy gears Because ull make the situation even worse. Not even in my peack of my carrer as a tracker I put 49x14, not even think about it, maybe in the road but in a track?? and at the beggining of the season????? who is teaching u dude??? Track training is super simple, pure and u have to be very carefull because u can screw up big time your improvements if u do stuff such a put those heavy gears... but is your problem not mine... if u continue using such a heavy gears like that even a turtle with 2 legs tied could win u an sprint easily.. Even I can do it with 40 pounds everweight... :P
When i was 15 y/o i was doing under 13 secs in 200 meters using 50x16 at the end of the season. And when I was junior (17) i was doing 11 secs using 50x15 in a concrete 45 degress track. When I was cat-1 I was doing under 10 secs and i wasnt the best sprinter... maybe many of u dont know but in a sprinter race if the racer sprint or launch the attack before the 200 meters line u end up doing like 9 secs... and usually u get 10 / 11 secs basically sprinting the last 150 meters, so imagine the power and speed u have to have to do that...
Well my advice is continue riding with 49x16 and race using 49x15 notihng more than that... well cya around... :)
Um6970,
1) I used a heavy gear because I CAN NOT SPIN!!! When I did my first TT, my butt was bouncing all over the place because I was spun out....
2) That gear was ONLY used for the TT, I rode 49x15 for the actual sprint tourney.
3) As I have said many times, I am old, fat and out of shape. I have put under 100 miles in on a bike this year. I am 6'3" and 220.
4) I have owned a road bike for less than 2 years, and probably have a total of 250 miles in.
5) Did I tell you I am a fat guy who can not spin?
6) My road bike has 180mm cranks...my track bike has 170mm cranks...have I told you that I can't spin yet? I have probably put in a total of 70 miles on the track.
7) Who is coaching me? No one....I get to the track a couple of times a month(10 times in my life)...have been on my road bike once this year(5 miles or so).
I was timed on the 5th lap of a keirin the same day.. I ran the lap in 24.31 seconds.
that was 333 meters.
I was using 50x15 and I could not spin it out .lol not enough strength yet.
just to be clear...when I say I spun out, I mean that my body could not smoothly spin the cranks any faster without bouncing all over the place. I was only hitting between 125 and 130 rpms on the 49x16.
I went to the larger gear to try to use my weight and the banking to get up to 120 rpms or so..if I had been able to, that would have been the 13.3 which was my goal for that TT.
The concept of a "season" is only valid if you are actually training to a plan. At Hellyer we have 3-4 sprint tourneys(one every month) so to ride a small gear since it is only "early season" would take away several of those opportunities. Our Regional USACycling director actually wants to hold our Regional championship in May.....
Um6970,
1) I used a heavy gear because I CAN NOT SPIN!!! When I did my first TT, my butt was bouncing all over the place because I was spun out....
2) That gear was ONLY used for the TT, I rode 49x15 for the actual sprint tourney.
3) As I have said many times, I am old, fat and out of shape. I have put under 100 miles in on a bike this year. I am 6'3" and 220.
4) I have owned a road bike for less than 2 years, and probably have a total of 250 miles in.
5) Did I tell you I am a fat guy who can not spin?
6) My road bike has 180mm cranks...my track bike has 170mm cranks...have I told you that I can't spin yet? I have probably put in a total of 70 miles on the track.
7) Who is coaching me? No one....I get to the track a couple of times a month(10 times in my life)...have been on my road bike once this year(5 miles or so).
HI again...
The spin problem is easy to fix... rule number 1... "DO NOT USE CLINCHERS NO MORE!!! GET TUBULARS!!!"... get tufo tubular clinchers if u cant afford new wheels. The jumping problem over the seat will start going away as the season goes by.
Second advice... use your road bike as a fixed gear... take the crancks out and put the 170 mms in the road bike. Again... USE TUBULARs/tubular clinchers. Do distances using 42x18 (listen to me OK?)... ride 30 mins in the road and then come back to your house (1 hour total), 1 hour is more than enough. Do that like for 1 week... Everything will hurt because u have to get used to the cadence... do not force yourself OK?? do it quietly... for sure u have a cateye device so control your pedaling using it, using 42x18 (or similar) easily u can get 80/100 rpms (i sugest try to stay that hour at 80 rpms). The trick is get your body used to high cadence.
Second week... the same but longer time (1.5 or 2 hours)... Oh go to the road 3 times per week that's all, u need to rest (believe it or not).
3rd week... I want u to change the 18T cog for a 17T cog... the same stuff again... 2 hours... blah blah. Dont worry if u feel that u arent developing strengt OK? thats natural... strengnght is developed with the time and after all is more efficient sombody who can stay pedaling for hours at high cadences than a super slow tank!.
4th week I want to do sprints... but sprints seated... i mean changes in the cadence.. start accelerating little by little... so u'll do a progression... go out for 2 hours and do 4 times the sprint stuff. 200 meters "sprints"... once the sprint finished u have to continue pedaling as usual... 80/90 rmps... do that for 2 weeks...
6th week... if everything went ok u'll be faster for the 7th week, and u should be thinner aswell.
Go to the track time to time, but do not abuse of the gears... try to ride light... maybe 50x16 but no more than that... u lack of 2 things, agility and power... and to have power u have to work agility 1st u know...
This is the way u train a newbie (and kids) basically, old school training i must say too. If u have more questions let me know... hope this could help other people. I'm just letting u know a very basic traning plan because traning plans depends of the rider and other factors. As an example I used to weight 65 kgs (do the math ok?) when I retired from racing i was 68 kgs, now im like 85 kgs or so (maybe more) but I still have a lot more cadence than a people who might be traning everyday. I learned to spin the way I told u... sadly and this is the most shocking thing for many people who wants to try racing... is that when u think that your spining is very good and u race for the very 1st time, then u realize that u arent because 1 thing is traning other one is racing... but well that is something people has to learn the hard way....
Good luck :)
It was not an issue of my tire slipping on the track and spinning..it was my legs could not spin any faster, and thus I could go no faster. I was running tubular tires.
As I said before, I do not have time to get out..either on my road bike or fixed gear.
Tubulars or clinchers won't affect your ability to spin, at least not in the range Zapp is looking for. Fixed gear on the road is useful, but not required. In fact, sometimes people are afraid too spin too fast with a fixed gear on the road because they know they can't just coast if things get a bit hairy.
Better to use the normal road equipment and spin up to 120+ and try to hold that against low resistance (down a slight hill) for 10+ seconds. Then work on increasing the rpm's you can hold for 10-20 seconds. Sprints on the flat for 10-12" out of the saddle in a 53x17,18 are good practice too.
When I was cat-1 I was doing under 10 secs
Where'd you do this and when? Bogota? I'd say you were a pretty impressive sprinter in your time if you were doing under 10 seconds repeatedly, since the officially recognized world record is just over 10 seconds, I believe, and Harnett's sub-10 was taken at altitude, thus impossible to match at most tracks anyone here's likely to be racing on.
I hate to call BS (and I apologize for doing so if I'm off-base), but just want to point out that ZappCatt's times are pretty damned good, especially so for somebody who doesn't get out to the track that much and there's no reason to discourage him.
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it before but there's an interesting mathematical model of the flying 200 at analyticcycling.com; probably worth checking out if you REALLY want to plan your drop down point and trajectory.
When I was cat-1 I was doing under 10 secs and i wasnt the best sprinter... maybe many of u dont know but in a sprinter race if the racer sprint or launch the attack before the 200 meters line u end up doing like 9 secs... and usually u get 10 / 11 secs basically sprinting the last 150 meters, so imagine the power and speed u have to have to do that...
Rubbish and nonsense.
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it before but there's an interesting mathematical model of the flying 200 at analyticcycling.com; probably worth checking out if you REALLY want to plan your drop down point and trajectory.
It's not as useful as being at the track and trying a few 200's and talking to people who are familiar with the lines on the track. The line chosen on a particular track can also vary slightly based on the rider's abilities.
At Hellyer, I use 49x14 if I'm aiming around 12 seconds, and 50x14 for 11.8 or better. Some other guys use smaller gears and higher cadences than I do.
For Zapp, since you're trying a similar gear you'll probably want to either use a long approach acceleration since I doubt you have the strength to get on top of that gear with a shortish jump, or try a smaller gear like 47x14 and get to somewhere near 125 rpm's, until you get better at spinning.
I wish I had a 200 to try haha. Soon enough.
This just past weekend I brough 138m(FCV lap) too 8.4sec with a cadence approach.
It's not as useful as being at the track and trying a few 200's and talking to people who are familiar with the lines on the track. The line chosen on a particular track can also vary slightly based on the rider's abilities.
Totally agree, and certainly didn't mean to imply that it'd be a substitute for actual experience and advice, but for somebody who's trying to do some theoretical planning away from the track it is an interesting curiosity, like most of the models on that site, and might suggest some things to try if you're doing workouts on your own. It definitely deviates from the real world -- there's no way I can see to model complex conditions like track surface quality, wind direction, or just plain weirdness like the cracked pavement in turn 3 at Kissena, or the mini-cyclone that crops up in turn 4 at T-Town.
I wish I had a 200 to try haha. Soon enough.
This just past weekend I brough 138m(FCV lap) too 8.4sec with a cadence approach.
Wow that's a corking time, CR :eek:
Could you fill in some of the details for me, eg gearing, where you started the wind up, any time spent out of saddle on the wind up and for how long etc etc??
Reason I'm interested is we run a similar flying lap thing down at Calshot track which is close in spec to the FCV track (145m, 45deg, wooden, indoors). The official record is somewhere between 9.2-9.3s. I've got my time down to 9.75 last w/e using a cadence-based approach (48x16) which is the fastest of the group I usually ride with down there, but I need some advice/hints to take it to the next level and attack that record! Also, seems like a slow record time comapred to the FCV, given that the track is only approx 8m longer... Can different transitions etc on 2 similarly specced tracks make that much difference??
mickster
Totally agree, ...there's no way I can see to model complex conditions like track surface quality, wind direction, or just plain weirdness like the cracked pavement in turn 3 at Kissena, ...
At least the bump out of 4 is gone now!
Wow that's a corking time, CR :eek:
Could you fill in some of the details for me, eg gearing, where you started the wind up, any time spent out of saddle on the wind up and for how long etc etc??
Reason I'm interested is we run a similar flying lap thing down at Calshot track which is close in spec to the FCV track (145m, 45deg, wooden, indoors). The official record is somewhere between 9.2-9.3s. I've got my time down to 9.75 last w/e using a cadence-based approach (48x16) which is the fastest of the group I usually ride with down there, but I need some advice/hints to take it to the next level and attack that record! Also, seems like a slow record time comapred to the FCV, given that the track is only approx 8m longer... Can different transitions etc on 2 similarly specced tracks make that much difference??
mickster
Gearing: just the right one :) 49/15. FCV has short straits and we get 2 laps to spin up. I used to roll it at a half decent pace up at the top then do most my accelerating on the trasition and utilize my kick. But my times stayed almost identical for like 2 months. This new time I posted was done 1st off with no sleep at all, and nothing more than 2 cups of coffee in me. I also started out with alot more speed and just spun the **** out of myself all the way down the trasition.
We'll see if I can keep shaving the tenths off.
Tonight, a guy from Canada ran an 11.(80?) -- f/200m @ the track, it was quite impressive to see.
The closest one of our local guys did (Mike Lifshotz) was 12.05 (And that was after completing a 10 lap scratch race)... Awesome work !!!
I did not attempt it, instead I focused on not finishing last (even though I did finish last) in the 10 lap scratch race... however I got lucky and finished 3rd in the handicap race .. (2nd place was a 13 year old kid) and Mike Lifshotz was caught me and passed the 13y/o and finished first even though he was handicapped (everyone else was giving up because most people did f/200's just before the race).... lol
Fun night !!!!
Tonight, a guy from Canada ran an 11.(80?) -- f/200m @ the track, it was quite impressive to see.
Cause theres only 3 of us.......... Find out his name, might know him. What was he riding and what jersey?
Cause theres only 3 of us.......... Find out his name, might know him. What was he riding and what jersey?
21 y/o kid. Yellow bike. Did 2 sprints.. first one was good, 2nd was was a second slower.. Then he just watched the rest of the race. (forgot his name).
Anything under 14 seconds is respectable. But as my first cycling coach said, back in the 70's, sprinters and pursuiters (at the top level) are born, not made. You can probably build yourself up to get under 13 seconds for 200m, but unless you're a born sprinter, it's unlikely you'll ever get under 12. And you'll learn pretty quickly whether or not you've got it.
For those of us who weren't born with the right muscle fibers, our coach had us doing team pursuits. I think that these days, if you're not a born sprinter or pursuiter, but you do OK on the road, you should focus on points and scratch races. World class team pursuiters these days are riding 4000 meters in close to 4 minutes from a standing start. This means they're doing 3:1 intervals, with the rest periods at over 60 kmh, in gears of over 100 inches. That just blows me away. I don't think I've ever even gone under five minutes for a TP.
As far as 200m technique, you should just watch what the top sprinters do. Seriously watch their line, and watch when they get out of the saddle and when they get back in. At the 200m Burnaby track, top sprinters are usually up to 40 kmh at 400m to go, out of the saddle in turn 4, at full speed and back in the saddle and maybe 4/5ths of the way up the start/finish at 200m (one lap to go), taking a wide line around turn 1 (making the tight 45-degree banking as wide as possible), coming down to the fourth plank up from the black line at the 40m mark (in turn 2), then following the black line the rest of the way.
- L.
u r absolutely RIGHT :)...
UM
Anything under 14 seconds is respectable. But as my first cycling coach said, back in the 70's, sprinters and pursuiters (at the top level) are born, not made. You can probably build yourself up to get under 13 seconds for 200m, but unless you're a born sprinter, it's unlikely you'll ever get under 12. And you'll learn pretty quickly whether or not you've got it.
For those of us who weren't born with the right muscle fibers, our coach had us doing team pursuits. I think that these days, if you're not a born sprinter or pursuiter, but you do OK on the road, you should focus on points and scratch races. World class team pursuiters these days are riding 4000 meters in close to 4 minutes from a standing start. This means they're doing 3:1 intervals, with the rest periods at over 60 kmh, in gears of over 100 inches. That just blows me away. I don't think I've ever even gone under five minutes for a TP.
As far as 200m technique, you should just watch what the top sprinters do. Seriously watch their line, and watch when they get out of the saddle and when they get back in. At the 200m Burnaby track, top sprinters are usually up to 40 kmh at 400m to go, out of the saddle in turn 4, at full speed and back in the saddle and maybe 4/5ths of the way up the start/finish at 200m (one lap to go), taking a wide line around turn 1 (making the tight 45-degree banking as wide as possible), coming down to the fourth plank up from the black line at the 40m mark (in turn 2), then following the black line the rest of the way.
- L.
13.34 at this months Sprint Tourney. I wish I had more opportunities to run them, but I only have 3-4 more opportunities this year to get under 13.
Was running a 51x15 for the TT this month. I still have not gotten the form down to incorporate getting out of the saddle during the windup.
13.34 at this months Sprint Tourney. I wish I had more opportunities to run them, but I only have 3-4 more opportunities this year to get under 13.
Was running a 51x15 for the TT this month. I still have not gotten the form down to incorporate getting out of the saddle during the windup.
You're getting there! It's tough to get out of the saddle and sprint when you're still going around the turn with the fence coming at you. That takes more practice than you've had so far.
What was your peak speed and speed at the finish?
If you get a chance before the next one at the end of May (I will be there for sure) try the same gear or a 50x15 and just do a more gradual windup and then hit it hard as you exit the turn-most of your hard acceleration while going straight. With the smaller gear you can accelerate quicker and even though you won't be at full speed when you cross the 200m line it is your average speed over the entire distance that determines your time.
Have no idea of speed, just using a generic Performance computer for its cadence. I am having a Powertap built up so will be able to analyze my future rides(cadence/speed/power, etc)
I moved the seat forward, and went to narrower bars...I think the bike is just about set up correctly. I did not have any of the front end twitchyness and was able to keep my speed up through the turns.
Looking forward to meeting you next month. I hope they don't run the "festival of speed" next month. I gotta get another shot at the 200TT!!!!
Have no idea of speed, just using a generic Performance computer for its cadence. I am having a Powertap built up so will be able to analyze my future rides(cadence/speed/power, etc)
I moved the seat forward, and went to narrower bars...I think the bike is just about set up correctly. I did not have any of the front end twitchyness and was able to keep my speed up through the turns.
Looking forward to meeting you next month. I hope they don't run the "festival of speed" next month. I gotta get another shot at the 200TT!!!!
I don't use power on the track, but finishing speed and peak speed (along with average speed calculated from the 200m time) provide a good picture of what you were doing. Power in a 200mTT? You'll need to consider the effects of your various aero positioning because this can effect your speed even at similar watts, and also the lines you try out of turn 2.
As I understand it, the Festival of Speed (I was the one who suggested this to Kevin a few months ago) would include 200m TT's, team sprint, 500mTT, and Kilos. I'm not sure if this is still the case but I'm certain 200mTT's would be available.
I moved the seat forward, and went to narrower bars...I think the bike is just about set up correctly. I did not have any of the front end twitchyness and was able to keep my speed up through the turns.
Most of the time front end "wobble" is caused by having too much weight on the bars from having a really steep angle if attack. (high saddle, low bars) I had big time frame wobble and assumed it was my cheap bars and steel frame. With the assistance of a World champ I would up sliding the post down a bit and the saddle back to balance the bike, and just making sure I had a flat back when in my forward drops. Wobble was gone and I got faster. I spent a week just workin on my position on my new frame before I even botherd with any serious training.
In the words of the most helpfull World Champ ive ever talked too "your position is way off, its like an abortion"
Most of the time front end "wobble" is caused by having too much weight on the bars from having a really steep angle if attack.
Too much weight on the bars can come from having too much weight, eh? :-)
It can also be because the person is relatively inexperienced and a little too stiff in the upper body. It can be hard to remain relaxed during that effort, especially if you're fighting hard to maintain speed. It takes practice.
At the track we're talking about in San Jose, CA the banking is only 22 degrees in the turns, and big guys especially have a bit of trouble holding a smooth line around that turn at their highest speeds.
Ran 2 more 200m fs last night.
First run: 13.42
2nd run : 13.5x
Getting better !
Got to use my new wheels with 50x15 gearing.
I think I could not truly spin up this gear to max speed... I will try to get myself a 49t chainring and hopefully I might get a little bit more speed out of it...
I realized that I should set a goal... 12's .
There were only 2 other guys who broke into the 12's last night and they are both really good riders and I will seek advice from them on how to try to improve my speed.
WOOT !
Too much weight on the bars can come from having too much weight, eh? :-)
It can also be because the person is relatively inexperienced and a little too stiff in the upper body. It can be hard to remain relaxed during that effort, especially if you're fighting hard to maintain speed. It takes practice.
At the track we're talking about in San Jose, CA the banking is only 22 degrees in the turns, and big guys especially have a bit of trouble holding a smooth line around that turn at their highest speeds.
At 185lbs and 6 foot I dont know if i count as a big guy or not but at 60km how hard can it be to hold a line on 22deg banking? Try 45! hahaha.
I agree with you 100% though. It took me a long while before I learnd how to corner at speed without my bike flying back and forth.
We don't have the problem of the bike flying back and forth, we just have to fight the bike from drifting up the track.
With your steep banking, the track pushes your bike down, whereas with our shallow banking our weight tries to push the bike up the track..
45 degrees is easier than on 22 degrees with bumps. And as you go over 200 pounds it gets even more difficult. Around here we say, "If you can hold your line at Hellyer you can hold your line anywhere".
Ran 2 more 200m fs last night.
First run: 13.42
2nd run : 13.5x
Getting better !
Got to use my new wheels with 50x15 gearing.
I think I could not truly spin up this gear to max speed... I will try to get myself a 49t chainring and hopefully I might get a little bit more speed out of it...
For most not-so-speedy riders it is not max speed that is the limiter, it is the ability to hold on to the speed they have. To get under 13 seconds you only need to AVERAGE 34.5mph. So, check your max speed and finishing speed the next time you do 200's. Try to keep the loss within 2-3 mph. You may need to train the length of your sprint more than you need to train your peak speed.
Besides, when you do some match sprints you can't be slowing down towards the line or the person you're racing will just sit in your draft and then pass you when you slow down. 3-ups tend to be longer sprints so your average speed will matter even more.
Ran 2 more 200m fs last night.
There were only 2 other guys who broke into the 12's last night and they are both really good riders and I will seek advice from them on how to try to improve my speed.
WOOT !
I wasn't able to hang around late last night. I assume Tatto Mike and Postal Mike are the two under 12?
Been away from the track for a while so Im probably not up to date on the latest. The most efficient means to gain 200m speed quickly for me was working behind a motor. With an experienced rider/coach on the Motor you can be shown an effective line at the same time you are getting overspeed work and gaining a feel for riding the turn. Be carefull, its addictive!
We don't have the problem of the bike flying back and forth, we just have to fight the bike from drifting up the track.
With your steep banking, the track pushes your bike down, whereas with our shallow banking our weight tries to push the bike up the track..
I found the opposit, Granted ive only raced at FCV Ive ridden a bunch of droms. At FCV if for a second you loose concentration or twitch, up track you go. Hellyar is in Cali correct? Im pondering a move from Canadian winter.
Yes, Hellyer is in San Jose, CA. http://www.ridethetrack.com/index.html
For most not-so-speedy riders it is not max speed that is the limiter, it is the ability to hold on to the speed they have. To get under 13 seconds you only need to AVERAGE 34.5mph. So, check your max speed and finishing speed the next time you do 200's. Try to keep the loss within 2-3 mph. You may need to train the length of your sprint more than you need to train your peak speed.
Besides, when you do some match sprints you can't be slowing down towards the line or the person you're racing will just sit in your draft and then pass you when you slow down. 3-ups tend to be longer sprints so your average speed will matter even more.
Awesome info !
Thanks alot !!!!
I wasn't able to hang around late last night. I assume Tatto Mike and Postal Mike are the two under 12?
Postal Mike did flying 500's.
I don't recall their times... TT MIke ran a flat 12. And the guy with the asian wife (who typically video tapes us) ran a 12.8x (?)
We were all surprised that he ran so fast but it shows that he has lots of power !!
I need to train with him more often !
UPDATE:
I did 2 flying 200's tonight...
1st try: 13.30 !!! (That is .12 faster than a few weeks ago!!!!).
2nd try: 13.8x ... (thats ok, I selected a very bad line and I could not get enough speed..)
Anyway, there is improvement !!!
I also ran a 10 lap scratch race and on the final sprint I pulled on 2 of the guys who were ahead of me in the pack the entire race. =) That was real fun! One of those guys was not pushing it for some reason because last year he brought home 4 trophies in some big track race that I can't recall the name of.
Then there was a points race with just 2 sprints: one at the 5th lap, and one on the 10'th lap.. I was so tired from the first race that I just sat in the back mostly and didn't do anything...
Then after all that is when I did the flying 200's that I posted above... =)
UPDATE:
I did 2 flying 200's tonight...
1st try: 13.30 !!! (That is .12 faster than a few weeks ago!!!!).
2nd try: 13.8x ... (thats ok, I selected a very bad line and I could not get enough speed..)
Anyway, there is improvement !!!
I also ran a 10 lap scratch race and on the final sprint I pulled on 2 of the guys who were ahead of me in the pack the entire race. =) That was real fun! One of those guys was not pushing it for some reason because last year he brought home 4 trophies in some big track race that I can't recall the name of.
Then there was a points race with just 2 sprints: one at the 5th lap, and one on the 10'th lap.. I was so tired from the first race that I just sat in the back mostly and didn't do anything...
Then after all that is when I did the flying 200's that I posted above... =)
You are making great improvements!
You are making great improvements!
Thanks ! I owe a LOT to you guys for helping me out!! =)
Your speed was 32.3256 mph ... holding it for 200 meters .... my lungs just exploded thinking of that.
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