What's your attitude about cars?

[Helmet Head]

What's your attitude about cars?

[oilfreeandhappy]

Guess we voted the same.

[randya]

I would have guessed Serge liked cars, and enjoyed riding his bike with them...;)

[UmneyDurak]

I love cars, I love bikes, life is good. :D

[CommuterRun]

I think the time for Americans to seriously start reducing their dependency on cars is now. If we don't start now, one way or another, it's going to be forced on us later, but the way things are in this country, far too few people are going to do this voluntarily and then when they have to do it they're going to moan, groan and whine to the government to "do something", when it's the people who should be doing something about the problem, because their attitude is the problem.

As for myself, I'm car lite. Back before I retired the wife and I decided we were going to be a one car family. A bicycle and trailer serves me well for getting around, errands, work, hunting, fishing, etc. Consideration of this came into play on where we were going to live after I retired, and there are other things we do. Like not running the AC in the house, not turning on the heat unless the temperature in the house falls below 60, turn off the lights in unoccupied rooms, etc.

[cyclezealot]

Cars should only be used where necessary. Their need be reduced. They cause only grid lock and inefficient use of resources. Cars are necessary for many, but incentives should be made to find alternatives. May dislike of cagers usually is caused by their abuse and disrespect for cyclists.
Plus too many are cigar smoking, tobacco spitting slobs. Just kidding.

[galen_52657]

The US is in the grips of an unholy alliance of auto manufacturers, oil companies and road contractors. Together with all of their supporters and suppliers this group has virtually taken over and have managed to sell the US populace on the need to live as far away from work as possible and the idea that any form of public transportation is for the underclass.

It will take a long an concerted effort to ween average Americans from their cars.

[2manybikes]

Cars are part of life. No big deal. They are not going away. Cyclists and cars have to co-exist like it or not.

[cyclezealot]

That's it Galen. DOn't think anywhere is the world is mass transit maligned like it is in the US. Not just now is the US in the grips of your unholy alliance( asphalt contractors , auto manufactuers, and the oil lobby..) Remember GM was determined in the early days of the auto to do in public transit and the railroad.) And they did.
If American's had a broader view of all forms of transportation, I would not get on such a high horse condemning the auto... I like my family vacations in my car too. And the result, to force Americans into the quagmire of suburban sprawl and that miserable commute.
How nice it is to live in part of the year, where suburban sprawl ends no more than 15 miles out of the city center and the land is used to cultivate wine and great tasting fruit. and that is likely how it will remain. And within the city center, since we are mostly urban dwellers the phrase rings true, ' we must all learn to get along,' instead of escapism into the suburban jungle.

[dobber]

Consideration of this came into play on where we were going to live after I retired, and there are other things we do. Like not running the AC in the house, not turning on the heat unless the temperature in the house falls below 60, turn off the lights in unoccupied rooms, etc.

Little House on the Prairie?

[Roughstuff]

Low cost, flexible transportation is essential to economic growth. The car allows you to go when you want, where you want, with a great variety of sizes shapes and degrees of comfort. Compare this to the bus, which are oversized, awkward, and like all socialist offspring, on a schedule and agenda of their own.

we have a multidimensional trasnport system in the usa...cars, trucks, trains, and aircraft, which move goods and people rapidly and efficiently almost all the time. Sure, in clogged hopeless eastern cities and western ****holes like Los Angeles, you spend alot of time sitting in traffic. In cases like this buses and subways have a reasonable role to play.

Much the same for the bicycle. It has an interesting (some would say quaint) role to play in the trasnportation matrix. To me it is not used enough...there are alot of local trips where we could use bicycles instead of cars. Similarly, walking is underrated.

roughstuff

[Bekologist]

My attitude about cars-

Americans are pigs, %5 of the worlds population consuming %25 of the worlds resources. Our country is mired in overconsumptive insanity.

I own a car, and i fell guilty every time i drive it, about once every couple of months. i've been cognizant of american's role as wasteful world consumers ever since the Club of Rome began to consider the notion of 'finite resources' and 'sustainable globalism'.

[Az B]

I have a love/hate thing going on with cars.

While I enjoy owning a car, I can also see how insidious they've become. They've affected our countryside, our air quality, and our fitness. They are essentially luxury items that have become necessities because of a laziness in action and a way of thinking. We've become so used to them, we can't imagine any other way of getting around.

I think it's time to break the addiction while it's a choice. If we wait much longer, it will be forced, and then it will not be as easy.

Az

[JRA]

No matter what any of us thinks about cars, they aren't going to go away in the forseeable future.

Even $50 a gallon gasoline (when it happens, not 'if') won't be enough to get most Americans out of their cars. Nor will $50 a gallon gasoline result in any large-scale change in attitude toward mass transit and/or human powered vehicles.

There will likely be some decrease in car usage but probably not a tremendous decrease in car ownership. The biggest change is likely to be in the type of car - away from gas-guzzlers to smaller, more efficient, cars and to cars that use other fuels.

The American love affair with the personal automobile will be a long time in dying - if it ever dies. Americans will give up on other things before they get rid of their cars. Even more than it's the dream of owning a home, the American dream is the dream of owning a car.

Check back in 50 years.

I expect to see $50 a gallon gasoline in my lifetime. I don't expect to see an end to the American love affair with the personal automobile. It just isn't going to happen.

[genec]

While cars do provide vital transportation links for many users, the abuse of the auto as a status symbol and a sex symbol have created unrealistic dependence and desire for something that is a simple tool.

Imagine this same overprotective desire for power tools or a box of wrenches.

Meanwhile, this overdependence on the auto has created a nation of non-exercising fattys like never before seen in history... folks have become so lazy that a trip of a few blocks for a quart of milk requires driving a 3000 pound gas hog.

The economic dependence on both the auto and the oil it demands has caused us to engage in wars and make decisions globally that are detremental to both humans (air quality) and to our nation ("America is addicted to oil" -GW Bush).

Reducing the over all use of autos in this country is a situation well past it's prime.

[genec]

Exxon surpassed Walmart as the 'wealthiest' corporation in the world last year. A company that sells one type of product, earning more wealth than the worlds largest consumer goods retailer selling everthing nder the sun, including gas!

It's even worse than that... 3 of the top ten highest profit companies in the nation were oil companies. So this is not an Exxon exclusive.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/03/news/companies/mostprofitable_f500_fortune/?cnn=yes

[ignominious]

We are unfortunate in that motorised transportation, meaning fossil fuel driven motors, have become an intrinsic part of our world, our society and our mentality. Lacking the foresight that we now have today the assimilation of this mechnism into our culture was done without any consideration given to redundancy within the system, of which there is currently none for all practical intents and purposes.

In a culture that is as consumer driven as that typical of "western" countries, the transportation of goods and the flexibility of service delivery is an essential mainstay of the economics of which we rely. When all of that transportation and flexibility is dependant on one single element, fossil fuels, then we are, as I'm sure is now abundantly clear to all, in impending trouble. Our further misfortune is that it is only natural that we would seek to replicate in our personal lives. It is transportation, in whatever form, that forms and important function in society, not cars specifically.

I would argue that the opinion that we should reduce dependancy on cars, or get rid of them ASAP, whilst essentially good ideas, are the wrong way of thinking about the whole thing. This is likely to lead to a substitution which would very likely lack the redundancy that would have gone some ways to preventing this issue in the first place. I am firmly of the opinion that we should start rethinking our dependancy on transportation and consumerism as a whole.

As far as cars are concerned, I think that a harmony with cyclists, and indeed all road users, is acheivable and should be sought, regardless of the level of their usage. After all, if cars were not dependant on fossil fuels and could be sustainable, then what parts of your opinion of them would change?

[webist]

.....and there are other things we do. Like not running the AC in the house, not turning on the heat unless the temperature in the house falls below 60, turn off the lights in unoccupied rooms, etc.

Environmental altruism or economic necessity?

[HiYoSilver]

Where are the interesting poll questions:

SUV's suck, but cars are good
Trucks should taxed 10 x auto taxes so they are a rental moving vehicle instead of a one driver transportation vehicle
cars are good, but drivers suck
bikes are great, but wrong way unlighted riders suck
cars are ok, but state licensing does not manage driver education well enough

and multiple choice option

[Roughstuff]

I am firmly of the opinion that we should start rethinking our dependancy on transportation and consumerism as a whole.....

?


Let me agree and disagree with this at the same time. :) We have known since Roman times that a trasnportation network is crucial to a nations economic and political survival. Get rid of inexpensive transport and the only thing you can eat, buy and use is stuff within arms length of you. Not an attractive alternative. I am eternally grateful for oranges from florida, software from Washington State, electronics from japan, beer from Germany, and caviar from Russia.

At the same time, as the price of fuels rise, it DOES shoft (somewhat) the playing field away from the mega-marts of the world and the USA, that depend on global spider webs of suppliers to produce their products.

roughstuff

[genec]

After all, if cars were not dependant on fossil fuels and could be sustainable, then what parts of your opinion of them would change?

While you are right about the economy and the need to easily deliver goods... certainly this does not apply at the local level where autos are often used for very short trips that could easily be done either by walking or by bike.

The classic example is dropping the kids off at a neighborhood school.

Clearly a reduction in local short trips could reduce some of our pollution and oil dependence while fostering better health through simple local walking trips.

Other positive benefits could also arise from the reduction in short trips:

Deaths due to asthma in the US more than doubled between 1979 to 1995, with the preponderance among the elderly, closely tracking increased pollution due to auto emissions.

Evidence is mounting that automobile-oriented land use policies reduce transportation choice, adversely affect air quality and safety, and discourage physical activity:

Between 1977 and 1995, trips made by walking declined by 40 percent for both children and adults while driving trips increased to almost 90 percent of the total.

During the past twenty years the time we collectively spend in traffic grew 12 times as fast as the population while the number of trips taken on foot dropped by 42 percent.

One-fourth of all trips people make are one mile or less, but three-fourths of these short trips are made by car.

Although almost half of all trips were less than three miles in 1990 -- a convenient distance for a bicycle less than one percent of trips were actually made by bicycle.

From the Centers for Disease Control, 2003
http://www.naab.org/information3902/information_show.htm?doc_id=194272

[baj32161]

I suppose cars are a necessity for some, but where I live I see my nrighbours getting into their cars to drive to the Subway shop or Rite Aid for a 2 litre bottle of Coke. I take my bike and pull up just as they are getting out of their cars in the parking lot. I pedal by them silently (and sometimes not so silently) snickering at them. The round trip is 2.7 miles. I am not usually getting Coke though. I wouldn't even think of driving on that kind of errand.

[Roughstuff]

[/URL]It's even worse than that... 3 of the top ten highest profit companies in the nation were oil companies. So this is not an Exxon exclusive.

[url]http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/03/news/companies/mostprofitable_f500_fortune/?cnn=yes (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&sid=aNKSSHwUPxok&refer=columnist_berry)


So what. That just proves ya have to be a BIG COMPANY to provide energy to a multi Trillion dollar economy. Their profit margin was 11%. That is ALMOST EXACTLY the profit margin at your average, typical, run of the mill non-financial corporation last year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&sid=aNKSSHwUPxok&refer=columnist_berry

roughstuff

[Keith99]

Cars will make no difference. Heating and air conditioning will make no difference. As long as the number of people keeps going up sooner or later the bubble will burst.

Actually I'd rather have a gas guzzling, heat too much, air condition too much, have too much, water the lawn way too much society when the bubble does burst. If there is excess when things finally go wrong then that excess can be discarded. If society has no excess when the bubble bursts the only thing that can take up the slack is people dieing. (Not to say that an a overusing society people won't die, just that part of the correction can come from other places).

[bikebuddha]

I voted other, mostly because I love cars especially old cars but we do need to reduce our dependence on the automobile.

[bikebuddha]

I voted other, mostly because I love cars especially old cars but we do need to reduce our dependence on the automobile.

[ignominious]

Let me agree and disagree with this at the same time. :) We have known since Roman times that a trasnportation network is crucial to a nations economic and political survival. Get rid of inexpensive transport and the only thing you can eat, buy and use is stuff within arms length of you. Not an attractive alternative. I am eternally grateful for oranges from florida, software from Washington State, electronics from japan, beer from Germany, and caviar from Russia.

At the same time, as the price of fuels rise, it DOES shoft (somewhat) the playing field away from the mega-marts of the world and the USA, that depend on global spider webs of suppliers to produce their products.

roughstuff

My opinion is very humble here, afterall I'm not social designer, but let me challenge you on a few points here.

Why are you using fossil fuels to deliver software from Washington State? Is there some problem with the carbon neutral and ostensibly free delivery method of downloading.

Sure the electronics coming out of japan are of a superior design quality to peer devices from North America, but does that warrant production and distribution from the country of design? Theoretically it is entirely possible to have them built to the same quality closer to home, isn't it?

If beer from Germany is so good, and I agree that in comparison it is, why then is it not being manufactured in the same manner by local producers? Have you tried all of the local producers?

Are you as eternally grateful for the produce and products that are indigenous to your local area? Or are you obedient to the marketing of the exotic over the local? You proclaim gratitude at having these things available, but does purchasing them genuinely warrant the social and environmental impacts.

Please don't take this as me having a go at you personally. This is just exemplary of how I feel that people should endeavour to consider their own footprint in this world and also where the stuff that they consume and why.

[Roody]

I think within the next 10 years cars should be banned from cities and greatly taxed in rural areas. This will not destroy our economy. It will preserve ou planet.

[ignominious]

While you are right about the economy and the need to easily deliver goods... certainly this does not apply at the local level where autos are often used for very short trips that could easily be done either by walking or by bike.

The classic example is dropping the kids off at a neighborhood school.

Clearly a reduction in local short trips could reduce some of our pollution and oil dependence while fostering better health through simple local walking trips.

Other positive benefits could also arise from the reduction in short trips:

Deaths due to asthma in the US more than doubled between 1979 to 1995, with the preponderance among the elderly, closely tracking increased pollution due to auto emissions.

Evidence is mounting that automobile-oriented land use policies reduce transportation choice, adversely affect air quality and safety, and discourage physical activity:

Between 1977 and 1995, trips made by walking declined by 40 percent for both children and adults while driving trips increased to almost 90 percent of the total.

During the past twenty years the time we collectively spend in traffic grew 12 times as fast as the population while the number of trips taken on foot dropped by 42 percent.

One-fourth of all trips people make are one mile or less, but three-fourths of these short trips are made by car.

Although almost half of all trips were less than three miles in 1990 -- a convenient distance for a bicycle less than one percent of trips were actually made by bicycle.

From the Centers for Disease Control, 2003
http://www.naab.org/information3902/information_show.htm?doc_id=194272

All very well on the pollution front but, as I asked, what would be your opinion of cars if they were sustainable, and by that I mean non-polluting as pollution is not sustainable. This is one of those hypothetical situations, so imagine, for instance, a car that was solar powered but capable of all of the actions in terms of speed, handling and load carrying of petrol driven cars?

[Roody]

HH, maybe cars are what you should lobby about, as far as I can tell from your posts in here, you spend a lot more of your life driving cars and your RV (HH- a recreational vehicularist!) rather than riding your bike. When's your next RV trip?

(how much gas did Helmet Head blow thru in his RV this weekend? What a gas huffer!)

How were the kids the last time you drove by the university? When's the next time you're going to drive to your dentist to bug the guy about biking?

HH, the defender of petrocentric views of bicycling! All hail Petrol Head!

Exxon surpassed Walmart as the 'wealthiest' corporation in the world last year. A company that sells one type of product, earning more wealth than the worlds largest consumer goods retailer selling everthing nder the sun, including gas!

How much has petrocentrism and the auto-ocracy affected the view of bikes in American society in the last 100 years, is a more telling question...... and how badly the fumes have affected Petrol Head's schema.
Your off topic harrassment of a fellow user is taking most of the fun and usefulness out of this forum. I would rank you right up there with the new server as a major irritant, nothing more. This has nothing to do with your opinions, just your annoying manner of posting. Quit being a jerk. Please.

[genec]

Cars will make no difference. Heating and air conditioning will make no difference. As long as the number of people keeps going up sooner or later the bubble will burst.

Actually I'd rather have a gas guzzling, heat too much, air condition too much, have too much, water the lawn way too much society when the bubble does burst. If there is excess when things finally go wrong then that excess can be discarded. If society has no excess when the bubble bursts the only thing that can take up the slack is people dieing. (Not to say that an a overusing society people won't die, just that part of the correction can come from other places).

Actually the very definition of a "bubble" is that there is an "artificial inflation" of something... either prices, or demand or costs. While people do create bubbles, it is generally by (what were Greenspan's words?) "irrational exuberance," not by sheer numbers in population.

[Keith99]

I suppose cars are a necessity for some, but where I live I see my nrighbours getting into their cars to drive to the Subway shop or Rite Aid for a 2 litre bottle of Coke. I take my bike and pull up just as they are getting out of their cars in the parking lot. I pedal by them silently (and sometimes not so silently) snickering at them. The round trip is 2.7 miles. I am not usually getting Coke though. I wouldn't even think of driving on that kind of errand.

There used to be, perhaps still is, a series of comercials for a local Mercedes dealer. The theme was things are not always as they seem. The idea was that a Mercedes just might not be expensive to won, that you can afford it. Actually it was a very good series of ads. One comes to mind in this thread:

A couple are in their driveway. Both young and attractive wearing sweat suits. They are streatching. someone walks by on hte sidewalk. The guy says let's do it. They get into their car, back out, drive past the alley and park in front of the gym. The walker goes by as they are getting out. They go into the gym.

Perfect example of the extent of overuse of the car by some.

Before we laugh too hard remember they probably went in and got on the stationary bikes.

[Roody]

Actually the very definition of a "bubble" is that there is an "artificial inflation" of something... either prices, or demand or costs. While people do create bubbles, it is generally by (what were Greenspan's words?) "irrational exuberance," not by sheer numbers in population.Good point, Gene. The main problem is not the number of people, it's the amount of resources those people squander and waste. The earth could sustain larger numbers of humans if we would cut back on our inefficient overuse of the treasures we have been given, such as fossil fuels.

Also, most would agree that current consevation measures will help to cushion the "fall" when oil production declines. To save lives in the future, we all need to live more reasonably in the present. Ride your bike to the store!

[banerjek]

Although I barely drive myself and think it would be better if more people found alternative modes of transport, I actually love cars.

When people ask me why they should ride bikes, I give the normal answers, but I also say one of the best reasons to bike is if you love to drive. Driving on congested roads to places with no parking is no fun, and cars are expensive to operate.

If more people biked, driving would be a far more enjoyable experience, even if you couldn't care less about the environment, health benefits, or costs.

[Roughstuff]

My opinion is very humble here, afterall I'm not social designer, but let me challenge you on a few points here....

Please don't take this as me having a go at you personally.


No i won't. All of your questions are quite reasonable; and, as a marketing strategy, you could make those points to the consumers of all the products you mention above. But to some extent, if it could be done, it would be done. I do drink Sam Adams lager alot; Northampton pale ale; and slurp down some Vermont made maple syrup. But I like having the choice of these other products , and it was/is/and always will be the competition from goods shipped elsewhere that helps force down prices to where consumers can enjoy these products.

No one forces anyone to shop at walmart. Most towns i go to still have struggling, undersized, overpriced, and uninspiring areas, often in dying downtown retail ghettos.

And in some cases there is not an alternative. Cold climates depend on fruits and veggies produced elsewhere. The same transportation system that ships these products can be used, at litttle additional cost (if any) to ship many of the other products I have mentioned.

roughstuff

[LittleBigMan]

The more I ride my bike, the more driving my car seems like the "junk food" of transportation.

But when I'm tired, or when I want to take my family somewhere, driving a car works very well.

Overall, I think it's wasteful, but don't think people will drive less until it gets too expensive for them. Even now, it's very expensive!

[genec]

No i won't. All of your questions are quite reasonable; and, as a marketing strategy, you could make those points to the consumers of all the products you mention above. But to some extent, if it could be done, it would be done. I do drink Sam Adams lager alot; Northampton pale ale; and slurp down some Vermont made maple syrup. But I like having the choice of these other products , and it was/is/and always will be the competition from goods shipped elsewhere that helps force down prices to where consumers can enjoy these products.

No one forces anyone to shop at walmart. Most towns i go to still have struggling, undersized, overpriced, and uninspiring areas, often in dying downtown retail ghettos.

And in some cases there is not an alternative. Cold climates depend on fruits and veggies produced elsewhere. The same transportation system that ships these products can be used, at litttle additional cost (if any) to ship many of the other products I have mentioned.

roughstuff


And all this "shipping" is dependent on the personal use of single individuals in large cars?

Shipping is one thing, individual use of autos is altogether a different issue. Try not to confuse the family SUV with an 18 wheeler carrying goods across the country.

[genericbikedude]

I hate cars and all, but am I the only one who finds the term "cager" sort of corny?

[Helmet Head]

Guess we voted the same.
I didn't vote until today, hours after you posted.


I would have guessed Serge liked cars, and enjoyed riding his bike with them..
Once again Randya shows that she pays attention. Yes, I like cars.

Yes, I like camping, and the only practical way I know to accomplish that with my family is by using a car (a camper van in my case).

Yes, I like to visit my extended family that lives 500 miles away, and the only practical way I know to accomplish that is by driving up there, or by flying up there and renting a car (they live 60 miles from the airport, and my elderly mom has no way to get around without someone driving her).

Yes, I like to ride my bike to work, but I also like the time-saving option of using my car to get to work on days when I don't have the time to ride.

Yes, I like to go backpacking in the grand canyon (I'm going there this weekend to attend a symposium on grand canyon hiking), and the only practical way I know to accomplish that is by driving there and back (800 miles each way).

Yes, I like to visit my friends on weekends and evenings, many of whom live too far (20+ miles) to get there and back with my family by bike or public transportation without using up hours unnecessarily, so I like to use my car for such trips.

Yes, I like the cost savings enjoyed by my family when we shop at discount grocers and Costco instead of at the big grocery chain store down the street, but that requires using a car.

And, yes, I enjoy riding my bike in motor traffic. It feels good to be able to use my bike for transportation among all those cagers, using the same rules, on the same roads, and enjoying the same rights.

Cars are great. Bikes are great. Life is good!

[-=£em in Pa=-]

Unfortunately lesser intellects ahve chosen to build our society around this most
declasse mode of transportation so they are still a necassary evil. But I look forward
to the day the go the way of the dinosaur.

[Roughstuff]

You make some good points, but the issue here is personal auto use, not cargo shipments. Look at it this way. If every individual drove his car to Florida to buy citrus, that would be inefficient. Using trucks, trains and even planes to transport the citrus to local markets is more efficient.

As for local produce. I do the best I can in my cold climate. i love to ride my bike a few miles into the country and buy produce at local farmhouses. this way absolutely no petroleum is used in my procurement of food.

Does everybody know that Bikeforums has a "Living Carfree" subforum?

I don' have all the answers..but at the moment EVERY time i try and send a letter bikeforums has software glitch. Maybe tomorrow! :) Thanks folks for your comments.

roughstuff

[ignominious]

And in some cases there is not an alternative. Cold climates depend on fruits and veggies produced elsewhere.

A fallacy that I'm eager to dispell. The produce of the north-eastern seaboard of North America is surprisingly diverse and prior to the electric age starvation was not a leading cause of mortality. Why then do we see far fewer of the ingidenous foodstuffs on the shelves of our supermarkets?

Apart from beer and maple syrup, can you actually name some of the shining lights of the New England agricultural market?

[Roody]

No i won't. All of your questions are quite reasonable; and, as a marketing strategy, you could make those points to the consumers of all the products you mention above. But to some extent, if it could be done, it would be done. I do drink Sam Adams lager alot; Northampton pale ale; and slurp down some Vermont made maple syrup. But I like having the choice of these other products , and it was/is/and always will be the competition from goods shipped elsewhere that helps force down prices to where consumers can enjoy these products.

No one forces anyone to shop at walmart. Most towns i go to still have struggling, undersized, overpriced, and uninspiring areas, often in dying downtown retail ghettos.

And in some cases there is not an alternative. Cold climates depend on fruits and veggies produced elsewhere. The same transportation system that ships these products can be used, at litttle additional cost (if any) to ship many of the other products I have mentioned.

roughstuff

You make some good points, but the issue here is personal auto use, not cargo shipments. Look at it this way. If every individual drove his car to Florida to buy citrus, that would be inefficient. Using trucks, trains and even planes to transport the citrus to local markets is more efficient.

As for local produce. I do the best I can in my cold climate. i love to ride my bike a few miles into the country and buy produce at local farmhouses. this way absolutely no petroleum is used in my procurement of food.

Does everybody know that Bikeforums has a "Living Carfree" subforum?

[ignominious]

I hate cars and all, but am I the only one who finds the term "cager" sort of corny?

Not at all. I find the term basically foolish and a rather pathetic attempt at passive self-aggrandisment. After all, only those desperately trying to be clever would draw a car if asked to draw a cage or vice versa. It's frankly disingenous and does little in promoting the interests of cyclists outside of our own community. Any self-respecting driver would see this as calling names and it will lead them view us in a negative light.

[genericbikedude]

**** drivers. I dont care how they see us. I hope they choke on their big macs. I'm just saying that "cager" sounds silly. Thats all.

[ignominious]

Given that you share the road with them, you might want to start. How they view you strongly affects how they treat you.

[genericbikedude]

If I had my way (or totalitarian dictatorial power), I'd not share.

[ignominious]

All well and good, but until that happens, would you mind caring as how drivers view you also affects how they treat me and I prefer the "treated with dignity and respect" option.

[Helmet Head]

Given that you share the road with them, you might want to start. How they view you strongly affects how they treat you.
I find how I behave, including how I treat them, affects how they treat me FAR MORE than how they view me. Or maybe how I behave affects how they they view me, which in turn affects how they treat me. In any case, I'm able to strongly influence, if not control and actually determine, how I'm treated by them.

[DataJunkie]

I am indifferent provided they aren't right hooking me or attempting to hurt me in any other manner.

Actually, I have nothing against the car. It's the drivers that annoy me from time to time.

I can simplify my response:

my bike > my old camaro > our current 2003 camry > all other cars me and my wife have owned except the camaro. > walking