Fifty Plus (50+) - Does rude rule?

As was at my local LBS talking with a few of the employees about things that are different today than they were in the 70s when I started riding. I pointed out that in the 70s when you passed another rider you always acknowledge him or her with a slight hand wave or nod of the head. I said that yesterday I passed three other riders, did a slight wave and head nod to all three with no acknowledgment from any of them. The youngest guy in the shop says, "That's 'cause rude rules." He went on to give his version of why acknowledgement of another rider was not cool. So, does rude rule? If so, what's happened in the last 30 years?

Cycling is no different from anything else. I think "rude rules" has taken over every day behavior all over. From people who think it's okay to be on the cell phone while placing their order at the front of the line in a restaurant, thus making us all wait a bit longer, to people who will literally reach in front of you at the soft drink dispenser to get their drink, from people who will sashay across the street a great distance from the cross-walk and then give you a dirty look for giving them a beep, to people who think it's fine to call everyone 'dude,' and on and on it goes. I think we've forgotten about respect and courtesy and all that good stuff, and I think it's quite sad. I too have tried acknowedging other riders with a head nod or mini-wave, and almost every time, I get nothing in return. I've about given up. Yes, there are good reasons they may not acknowledge me (didn't see, in their own zone, etc.) but I don't think it takes much to smile or nod. I'm too old fashioned, I guess. :mad:

As far as acknowledgement from passing riders go, don't forget what you look like. I ride with sweats on when it is cool out, and am quite comfortable. But I don't have leg warmers, arm warmers, etc, which in some peoples eyes may make you beneath acknowledgement. Also if you are on anything old school, the same rules may apply.

On some of the rail-trails I ride, some days there are hundreds of riders I meet. I've given up trying to acknowledge everyone. On slower days on the trails I will. I don't consider the lack of a wave or nod as being rude. Many people out for a ride especially early in the year are dealing with the long layoff of the winter. When you feel good it's easy to wave or nod, but when you're struggling....
I just don't think the average rider spends enough time in the saddle to feel good towards the end of their ride.

Fortunately, folks around here are pretty friendly. I have met some really nice people while cycling. I always give some kind of nod or whatever.

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For my part, I always wave, nod, whatever. Id say that about half of those I come across acknowledge me, but I dont care. I'm waving anyway. It makes my little corner of the world just a bit better. Rude only rules if you let it.

Things are a little better here in the southeast despite the northern invasion. Almost all riders on trails acknowledge each other, even the ones who refuse to yield when I'm going uphill and they're going down hill. On the American Tobacco Trail MUP, about 75% of the cyclists acknowledge each other. I'm not much of a road cyclist, but what little I do, I receive an acknowledgement about 40-50% of the time.

I don't agree with "rude rules". I think more of the "predator and prey" logic. When you first look at someone else, you make an instand judgement. If you think they are a "predator" you give them space. If you think they are "prey" material, it's ok to invade their space. Certainlya guy on a bike dressed in Lycra with a bright yellow jersey on is not going to be considered a predator, so some try see what they can get away with. On the other hand, someone who rides in on a Harly with full leathers won't get pushed at all.

Everyone is looking to better everyone else. Feeling good about yourself often means you have to look down on others.

Small minds have always existed, there are just more of them nowadays.

I've got one Geezer that I see on my rides nearly every day for the last 4 years. He only scowls at me when I say hi to him......and I say hi every time. It's gotten to be a game with me now. I try to think up new greetings for him. He probably thinks I'm making fun of him, but I'm not (or wouldn't ) if he'd just nod, wave, raise a finger, smile or even give me the finger. I refer to him as smilin' Jack. :D

[QUOTE=Dakota] Everyone is looking to better everyone else. Feeling good about yourself often means you have to look down on others. [QUOTE]


The power of one-up-manship? How insecure does someone have to be to build their self-concept and self-esteem on making others look bad? Hell, I've lived over half a century; I'm happily married; I've raised two adult kids, neither of which are in jail; I paid my way through college including gradutate school; I must be doing something right. I sure don't need to make others look bad to let me know that. The only time I'm interested in making someone look bad is if they are foolish enough to try and make me look bad. As a friend of mine says, "I'm not vengeful, but I am provokable."

I guess when I started riding in the 70s there were so few of us that we felt a bit like an elite group... those adults crazy enough to still ride bicycles. This was way before most Americans had a clue that there were professional teams in Europe... before it got popular (thanks Greg and Lance). Now that I'm thinking about it, the faulty logic has filtered into all levels of American society. E.g., the Army commerical that proclaims "An army of one". We knew we weren't an army of one out riding the roads in the 70s. We had to rely on one another for help if we broke down, were interested in the best places to get good equipment and repairs (a good LBS was much harder to find then), and wanted as much information about good palces to ride as possible. Maybe the nod or wave was more of a survival mentality... e.g., I'll acknowledge you, because I may need you. Of course, my father says that's what Harley riders felt in the early days. They acknowledged each other, becasue they were reliant on others like them. OK enough of my rant.

Well, your nod and wave didn't count unless it was returned.

I have found that the bike has increased my level of connection with people. During rides most people give a thumbs up or wave except for large groups who are in their pack mentality. Many times we come up on a loan rider and ride together and chat for while. Often I have been speaking with people on the phone or someone doing some trade work and we find out we both ride and have long conversations about bikes. So for me biking has not been a rude experience. I believe that Karma start here, so if I wave and they don't that is their problem.

Every time that I past a roadie I call out loud enough so that they can hear me over the wind noise "How's your ride?" I always get a reaction, typically a smile and a wave. If I can see that they are in the middle of an interval or hard effort I call out "More cowbell!" So far, all I have gotten are laughs and waves or a quick grin and a thumbs up.

I used to travel alot for work and noticed that this phenomenon is also regional. I was blown away on my first trip to Ft Collins, CO because I was standing in line at a supermarket and the woman behind me started talking to me like she had known me all her life. If I tried to start a conversation with anyone in a supermarket line here in Boston, they would either completely ignore you or sue you for bothering them. New England is definately the most unfriendly area of the country I have ever been. Out on the road here I almost never get a return acknowledgment from another rider, on the MUPS it's probably less than 50%, and that is usually a family or older person, never a roadie. Actually the best thing about riding on the MUPS is that the little kids will always talk to you as you pass them.

Actually the best thing about riding on the MUPS is that the little kids will always talk to you as you pass them.

I love talking with little kids on bikes when I'm riding. Their eyes get so big when you stop to chat. I always ask them about their bike... did they name it? Do they ride it often? Only on rare occassions do parents seem annoyed by this.

Actually the best thing about riding on the MUPS is that the little kids will always talk to you as you pass them.

I love talking with little kids on bikes when I'm riding. Their eyes get so big when you stop to chat. I always ask them about their bike... did they name it? Do they ride it often? Only on rare occassions do parents seem annoyed by this.

{ I call out "More cowbell!" **

That's great - perfect for those "really serious groups".

Thanks for a morning laugh!

I've noticed that where we are (southern Oregon) there's a great social/eco thing going. Full spec'd, lycra wearing, carbon fiber equip't riders don't acknowledge anyone outside their little group. The word 'poser' sure comes to mind. We had (he has sinced moved) a LBS owner that set that standard--one of the rudest people, both inside and outside his store.

Outside that group, riders tend to be friendly and at least nod, others want to stop and chew your ear off. Kids of course love it if you talk to them--especially if you help them with a flat.

Interesting antecdote: I was coming home from work a while back and noticed the local recumbent rider (not too many around here) stopped on the shoulder. Since we were several miles from anywhere and it was in the 90's, I made a u-turn and went back to see if he needed anything. Turns out he had a flat, and I asked him whether he needed a kit--I had about a half dozen in the car plus a pump, and a cell phone. Got an incredibly rude reply. I hope the three mile walk pushing a long wheelbase recumbent in the heat was worth it.

John in Oregon

I've noticed that where we are (southern Oregon) there's a great social/eco thing going. Full spec'd, lycra wearing, carbon fiber equip't riders don't acknowledge anyone outside their little group. The word 'poser' sure comes to mind.
Interesting antecdote: I was coming home from work a while back and noticed the local recumbent rider (not too many around here) stopped on the shoulder. Since we were several miles from anywhere and it was in the 90's, I made a u-turn and went back to see if he needed anything. Turns out he had a flat, and I asked him whether he needed a kit--I had about a half dozen in the car plus a pump, and a cell phone. Got an incredibly rude reply. I hope the three mile walk pushing a long wheelbase recumbent in the heat was worth it.

John in Oregon

Have to agree about the "Poser" bit. I am a mountain biker and we are looked down on by the roadies where I live. Rarely get any recognition or response from them, but that does not bother me, What annoys me are the "Young" Riders that do not understand bike etiquette. They are not necessarily Young or new riders but they have not learnt the basic rules of Offroading. Any one climbing a hill has priority- even if it does ruin your downhill run. Any one with the bike upside down has a problem and you stop to see if they need help. And anyone waving to slow you down has seen a problem that you may not have done.

Sounds a lot like common courtesy is just not so common any more.

The youngest guy in the shop says, "That's 'cause rude rules." He went on to give his version of why acknowledgement of another rider was not cool. So, does rude rule? If so, what's happened in the last 30 years?[/QUOTE]

I'm committed to being very UN-cool!

The youngest guy in the shop says, "That's 'cause rude rules." He went on to give his version of why acknowledgement of another rider was not cool. So, does rude rule? If so, what's happened in the last 30 years?[/QUOTE]

I'm committed to being very UN-cool!

Does anyone else remember in the Old Days in the United States, if you drove a Volkswagen Beetle, you flashed your lights at another Beetle? It was a way of acknowledging another member of the "club." Back then, of course, people who drove Beetles were considered nuts, since the car was small and simply functional. I miss those days!

Does anyone else remember in the Old Days in the United States, if you drove a Volkswagen Beetle, you flashed your lights at another Beetle? It was a way of acknowledging another member of the "club." Back then, of course, people who drove Beetles were considered nuts, since the car was small and simply functional. I miss those days!

Beetles are still small and are no longer functional. I used to have an Austin Healey Mk1 "Frogeyed" Sprite and I used to get upset when Mk2's or MG Midgets used to flash me.
Is this your dark past coming out now?- A closet Flasher. What are you going to do when you meet another couple of Huffers on your rides?


Time for editing again

Cycling is 50% physical and 90% mental
2004 Giant Cypress SX
2005 Trek 3900 MTB
1980-ish Univega Viva Sport Singlespeed

Beetles are still small and are no longer functional. I used to have an Austin Healey Mk1 "Frogeyed" Sprite and I used to get upset when Mk2's or MG Midgets used to flash me.
Is this your dark past coming out now?- A closet Flasher. What are you going to do when you meet another couple of Huffers on your rides?

I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll blow their bikes away! :D

I've noticed that where we are (southern Oregon) there's a great social/eco thing going. Full spec'd, lycra wearing, carbon fiber equip't riders don't acknowledge anyone outside their little group. The word 'poser' sure comes to mind. We had (he has sinced moved) a LBS owner that set that standard--one of the rudest people, both inside and outside his store.

Outside that group, riders tend to be friendly and at least nod, others want to stop and chew your ear off. Kids of course love it if you talk to them--especially if you help them with a flat.

Interesting antecdote: I was coming home from work a while back and noticed the local recumbent rider (not too many around here) stopped on the shoulder. Since we were several miles from anywhere and it was in the 90's, I made a u-turn and went back to see if he needed anything. Turns out he had a flat, and I asked him whether he needed a kit--I had about a half dozen in the car plus a pump, and a cell phone. Got an incredibly rude reply. I hope the three mile walk pushing a long wheelbase recumbent in the heat was worth it.

John in Oregon


That reminds minds me of this guy. Definately not your typical bent rider.

http://www.craigslist.com/about/best/por/90958672.html

We pass, or get passed by, at least 50 riders every Saturday morning, most of them regulars, and everyone gives a wave or a "good morning". We've even commented that the drivers seem to be getting more cycle conscious in our area. Everybody asks if you're OK or need help when you're stopped with a flat. Most of the folks on Harley's even wave back, and sometimes laugh, at the geeks in the spandex.

I've got one Geezer that I see on my rides nearly every day for the last 4 years. He only scowls at me when I say hi to him......and I say hi every time. It's gotten to be a game with me now. I try to think up new greetings for him. He probably thinks I'm making fun of him, but I'm not (or wouldn't ) if he'd just nod, wave, raise a finger, smile or even give me the finger. I refer to him as smilin' Jack. :D
Try ignoring him a few times & he'll be even more pissed off & may even start saying 'hi' to you !

if someone doesn't acknowledge my friendly wave, I chase them down and throw their bike over a cliff.

Sounds a lot like common courtesy is just not so common any more.

Just hang around the forums where some are fast to be a jerk. I'm sure they ride the same way. I've given up having a problem with jerk cyclist. Heck i stopped the other day to ask a guy if he needed anything as he was changing a flat. Full gear and riding a Vortex. Nope,you dont have anything i could use. Looks back down and laughts,broke any carbon on that thing yet? I just said C Ya.

A view from a different country. Here in Bahrain (Small island off the coast of Saudi Arabia, current home of the US 5th Fleet) there aren't too many cyclists. However, there is the Bahraini national team, training to qualify for the Olympics - about 20 guys, half or a third my age and easily twice or three times as fast. Everytime I'm passed by them, big smiles and waves and greetings. Once, struggling into a headwind, they come whirring up from behind. The first few smile and wave. A couple of guys in the middle come one each side, ask 'OK?', and shove me into their pace line, and give the necessary shove every now and again to keep me there for about 3 miles until they turn down wind. Fun.
The other kind of cyclist typically comes from India or Pakistan, is working a low paid job, and rides a heavy Indian roadster to work. These guys are politeness itself, and break into a big grin and an arm raised salute every time you wave.
Round here, we have the kind of inter - cyclist greeting that I've never found anywhere else!
(Now the car and truck traffic, that's a different story!)

Once, struggling into a headwind, they come whirring up from behind. The first few smile and wave. A couple of guys in the middle come one each side, ask 'OK?', and shove me into their pace line, and give the necessary shove every now and again to keep me there for about 3 miles until they turn down wind. Fun.


Nice

Fine story wobblyoldgeezer. Reminds me a bit of when I cycled through Greece and southern Italy. Kids would pour out of their houses in small villages just to look at our bikes. Some of them would then proudly escort us through town on their own one-speeds.

I tend to greet other cyclists and get a wide range of responses. The only time I am rude is with wrong-way cyclists or with joggers running three abreast, taking up the entire bike lane. Those who move over or make a reasonable effort to share the road always get a wave and a thank you from me.

"I like everything about cycling except the people that are in it."

My personal experience with road cyclists predominately is that they are an anal-retentive, self-centred, pretentious lot. When I'm out on a lonely stretch of country RR# and I pass a cyclist and give a short hand wave or nod, yet he neglects the courtesy to return the same, that really pisses me off to no-end.

Yet that same rider has laser scanned my ride manufacturer, gear maker and apparel marketer and has instantaneously formed an immediate impression of their status stratification based on how superior, equal or not he is to the opposing rider...........me.

I think the term used in my day is : "a flake"

I also think most of these posers (road-cyclists) take themselves much to seriously. When I spot any of these road a**holes, I just tell myself he must be content, riding his bike with the seat post firmly in place and without the benefit of a saddle.

Does anyone else remember, if you drove a Volkswagen Beetle, you flashed your lights at another Beetle?

I don't remember it when driving Beetles, but I sure remember it driving a split window VW van, my Dad's and both of mine.

I used to travel alot for work and noticed that this phenomenon is also regional. I was blown away on my first trip to Ft Collins, CO because I was standing in line at a supermarket and the woman behind me started talking to me like she had known me all her life. If I tried to start a conversation with anyone in a supermarket line here in Boston, they would either completely ignore you or sue you for bothering them. New England is definately the most unfriendly area of the country I have ever been. Out on the road here I almost never get a return acknowledgment from another rider, on the MUPS it's probably less than 50%, and that is usually a family or older person, never a roadie. Actually the best thing about riding on the MUPS is that the little kids will always talk to you as you pass them.

New England does not stop at the Massachusetts border. You paint a wide condemnation with that small brush stroke. Having made my living for 17 years traveling all over this country, I have to say "unfriendly" is pretty well evenly spread throughout the nation. The South has no lock on friendly and courteous. That friendly how ya'll doin can turn ugly in a heartbeat. The laid back "go with the flow" myth of the West is quickly shot down after an hour of LA traffic. And the friendly down home folks from Arkansas and Iowa have their jerks.

I take the lack of recognition from another rider as it is. An individual snub and not one based on where they come from. Cyclists who are rude and snobby are most likely that way off the bike also. I find that when folks condemn an area as unfriendly, they had their minds made up before they got there and sought out supporting evidence. Or they are still harboring some generational grudge for something that happened a long time ago. Oft times an interaction is tainted by the preconception of those involved.

"I like everything about cycling except the people that are in it."

My personal experience with road cyclists predominately is that they are an anal-retentive, self-centred, pretentious lot. When I'm out on a lonely stretch of country RR# and I pass a cyclist and give a short hand wave or nod, yet he neglects the courtesy to return the same, that really pisses me off to no-end.

Yet that same rider has laser scanned my ride manufacturer, gear maker and apparel marketer and has instantaneously formed an immediate impression of their status stratification based on how superior, equal or not he is to the opposing rider...........me.

I think the term used in my day is : "a flake"

I also think most of these posers (road-cyclists) take themselves much to seriously. When I spot any of these road a**holes, I just tell myself he must be content, riding his bike with the seat post firmly in place and without the benefit of a saddle.

Now your starting to get it. I still give a nod to all i pass but i now dont expect anything back. Makes for a better ride for myself.

I tend to greet other cyclists and get a wide range of responses. The only time I am rude is with wrong-way cyclists or with joggers running three abreast, taking up the entire bike lane. Those who move over or make a reasonable effort to share the road always get a wave and a thank you from me.


DITTO

Until last year, I rode 2500 miles each year on my '73 Schwinn Le Tour. Treated myself to a Cannondale Cyclocross last June and tend to right it most of the time, now. But, for clothing, I wear whatever street clothes suit me - trousers, jackets, electric socks and gloves, water proof shoes, and a warm hat with ear tabs in the winter, shorts and sneakers and baseball cap in the summer. I'm not a fan of the fancy bike clothes (not for me, although they look snazzy enough on others), and I detest helmets (again, for me - they're fine for those who choose to use them). I have a feeling that other "better equipped" riders aren't friendly with me because of my appearance - I don't look like I'm with it. I generally ride alone - love long rides, and ride in all kinds of weather.

I generally nod to all other bikers - most do not acknowledge me. But, they don't bother me half so much as auto drivers who think you have no business on the road.

Cauros

I tend to greet other cyclists and get a wide range of responses. The only time I am rude is with wrong-way cyclists or with joggers running three abreast, taking up the entire bike lane. Those who move over or make a reasonable effort to share the road always get a wave and a thank you from me.

Hell i have HS track teams running across both bikepath lanes and there coach on a bike behind them. When i asked if they couldnt use one side he told me to ride somewhere else. They are all over the place and for some reason when you come up behind and say bike,they are so shocked to see a bike on the bikepath the whole fricken team must be clueless.

Here's my take on the whole thing. People in general have gotten ruder and language more coarse. Too many people in too much of a hurry. On the waving thing. I say hi and/or wave to every rider, runner or walker I see when I ride. I even wave to most vehicle drivers. Out here in Wyoming most of them wave back. The few who don't seem to be younger riders on top end bikes. I think some of them are the "rude is cool" kind but I also think that some of them are so intent on their ride that they actually don't see other riders.
As for Europe, I have lived and cycled in Spain and Germany. In Spain (1981-1983), I was riding a Scwinn LeTour, cotton riding shorts, T-shirt, canvas bike shoes and one of those original "looks like abeer cooler" helmets. I waved at all the Spaniards (wool cycling shorts, team jerseys, leather cycling shoes. etc) and they never waved back. Then I bought a new bike and all the gear. They started waving back and asked me to join the local club. Go figure. Funny, I never saw that many riders on the roads south of Munich (90-92). The ones I did see were friendly enough.
Now if you want to talk about rude people - drivers on Ohau and their attitudes towards bikes - don't even get me started.

Rude does rule.

I ride a BMX bike, wearing jeans (or shorts- weather dependant) & some sort of rock concert t-shirt. I wave & say high to everyone I cross paths with whom aren't in a motorvehicle. It usually takes them by suprise considering the stereotype associated with my clothing.

I like wearing the same get-up to high-end audio/video stores & paying cash for their components...priceless!

The only cyclists I don't bother waving to are the ones wearing music players. I figure they're in another world as it is. What's interesting is that these riders NEVER intitate a wave to me as they pass, either.
Good observation.

Rude does rule.

I ride a BMX bike, wearing jeans (or shorts- weather dependant) & some sort of rock concert t-shirt. I wave & say high to everyone I cross paths with whom aren't in a motorvehicle. It usually takes them by suprise considering the stereotype associated with my clothing.

I like wearing the same get-up to high-end audio/video stores & paying cash for their components...priceless!

This happened to me. A BMX-er came up aside me at a light, and although i glanced at him, I have to admit I dismissed him out of hand, figuring he'd probably dismiss ME out of hand as well, given our vast age difference, so why bother. But, on the contrary, he smiled, said hello, and chatted with me a minute before the light changed.

My heart felt a bit lighter, and then as he pedaled off, he did about two or three dumb things, cutting off a driver, crossing the intersection on a diagonal, and something else I can't recall just now. I was left there feeling rather odd -- a warm fuzzy for the guy who broke through the stereotype barrier to say hello, followed by some irritation that he proceeded to put himself, and a couple of drivers, in danger with his unpredictable and illegal riding, not to mention adding to negative stereotypes about all cyclists.

No moral to this story. I just thought it was rather weird! But i have to admit, if he hadn't said hi to me, I probably wouldn't have said hi to him.

I forgot to mention I'm 35 years old. :eek: Yeah...a 35 year old shaved head BMX'er, wearing a Black Sabbath Reunion Concert t-shirt...lol.

My heart felt a bit lighter, and then as he pedaled off, he did about two or three dumb things, cutting off a driver, crossing the intersection on a diagonal, and something else I can't recall just now. I was left there feeling rather odd -- a warm fuzzy for the guy who broke through the stereotype barrier to say hello, followed by some irritation that he proceeded to put himself, and a couple of drivers, in danger with his unpredictable and illegal riding, not to mention adding to negative stereotypes about all cyclists.

No moral to this story.

I dunno', sounds like kindred spirits to me. Two true individuals breaking the rules, flipping off the establishment in their own unique ways. The BMX'r breaks traffic laws, goes against the grain, lives his life on the edge. He'll tell you that it adds something to his life.

You (and perhaps the rest of us) are also going against the norm--and it surely looks dumb to some. You got out of your car and off your butt and exercised; you're living a different, healthy, unique lifestyle now; and doing it riding a 30 pound machine with no protection, mixing it up with traffic--sorta' puts you out there on the edge somewheres. Not so close as the bmx'er perhaps, but close. And you'll tell us that it adds to your life.

No, not so different.

John in Oregon