Commuting - 6 or 12 degree HID flood?

I've narrowed down my light choices to a 12 or 6 degree flood on a 13 watt HID. I'm mainly concerned about visability in low light traffic conditions (rain, dusk), but I'd also like to clearly see where I'm going on semi-lit streets as well as on a pitch-black MUP.

Which do you think will better do the trick. My Cygolite HID just died (after a miserable 18 month life), and I have not been able to find any technical information to tell me what that was. If you know the answer to that, it will give me a frame of reference.

Thanks.

I've got a 6 degree spot, but I've never seen the flood, so I can't help you much. I think I might go for the 12 degree if I did it again. Here's a picture I took of my 6-degree model (trailtech)
http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2774&g2_serialNumber=1

Go with 12. Bigger is always better, in my opinion.

Koffee

+1 to the 12. Having a nice wash of light over the road is preferable IMHO.

I've got a 6 degree spot, but I've never seen the flood, so I can't help you much. I think I might go for the 12 degree if I did it again. Here's a picture I took of my 6-degree model (trailtech)
http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2774&g2_serialNumber=1

That light pattern is scary. There was enough wildlife on my commute last fall that a 6 degree spot was out of the question. I have a headlight with a bright spot that lights the entire width of a two lane road at 50 yards with spill to the sides for cross traffic. Go for the 12 degree and have a broad beam front light for traffic areas, please.

I've narrowed down my light choices to a 12 or 6 degree flood on a 13 watt HID. I'm mainly concerned about visability in low light traffic conditions (rain, dusk), but I'd also like to clearly see where I'm going on semi-lit streets as well as on a pitch-black MUP.

Which do you think will better do the trick. My Cygolite HID just died (after a miserable 18 month life), and I have not been able to find any technical information to tell me what that was. If you know the answer to that, it will give me a frame of reference.

Thanks.

Check out:

<http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=743>

They sell replacement HID bulbs. I've bought batteries from them, they seem honest.
They also have a HID light for around $120, assuming you already have a battery.

Thanks to all who helped. I picked the 13W 12 degree flood. I checked with Cygolite (my POS dead HID) and they said it was also a 12 degree flood. I think that's about right.

I really appreciate the pix of Itsjustme's 6 degree spot. But that seems just too narrow to me for urban riding. But hey, to each his (or her) own. If it works for you, great. I think the spot would be most helpful on rainy days nights/early mornings when I need to be able whether that bloth in front of me is a hole, an oil slick, or just a discoloration or shadow. But, the flood seems like a more useful general purpose light.

P.S. Mods, this is the second thread about my light search. I started it because I wanted to discuss 12 degree v. 6 degree floods. Sorry if that was a mistake. I'd have no objection if you merged this thread into the first one (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=185370).

I actually wanted the 12 degree flood, but they mis-shipped me the 6 degree one. I didn't mount it on my bike for over a month, by which time they wouldn't take it back.
So be sure to check to see which one you have before you run out of time.

In reality lighting pics never seem to be accurate; the eye doesn't see how the camera does. The light to the side is brighter than it appears there, it's just that the spot in the center is very very bright and tends to de-accentuate the side lighting. I have no problems seeing stuff on the periphery; in fact my wheel casts a strong shadow, and washboarding and potholes are very well defined.

Thanks to all who helped. I picked the 13W 12 degree flood. I checked with Cygolite (my POS dead HID) and they said it was also a 12 degree flood. I think that's about right.

I really appreciate the pix of Itsjustme's 6 degree spot. But that seems just too narrow to me for urban riding. But hey, to each his (or her) own. If it works for you, great. I think the spot would be most helpful on rainy days nights/early mornings when I need to be able whether that bloth in front of me is a hole, an oil slick, or just a discoloration or shadow. But, the flood seems like a more useful general purpose light.

P.S. Mods, this is the second thread about my light search. I started it because I wanted to discuss 12 degree v. 6 degree floods. Sorry if that was a mistake. I'd have no objection if you merged this thread into the first one (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=185370).

What brand light did you get? I would have said the wider beam too.

I ended up with the Trail Tech 13W lamp 12 degree flood. I'll post again in about a week when everything arrives to see if it works.

I ended up with the Trail Tech 13W lamp 12 degree flood. I'll post again in about a week when everything arrives to see if it works.

That seems like a good light for the $$ to me. I'll be interested to hear about it.

I have a 16 degree spread bulb. I though I would get the wide beam for off road, and just live with it on road, and see what happens. Because the bulb is symmetrical the wide beam also is wide in the direction of close to the front tire and far down the road at the same time. Not just right and left. Even on a road ride I like to see far away, and still be able to see the the ground nearby just in case I have to swerve around something. I don't see this mentioned much.
I'm pretty happy with the wide beam for road riding.

That seems like a good light for the $$ to me. I'll be interested to hear about it.

I have a 16 degree spread bulb. I though I would get the wide beam for off road, and just live with it on road, and see what happens. Because the bulb is symmetrical the wide beam also is wide in the direction of close to the front tire and far down the road at the same time. Not just right and left. Even on a road ride I like to see far away, and still be able to see the the ground nearby just in case I have to swerve around something. I don't see this mentioned much.
I'm pretty happy with the wide beam for road riding.
I'm almost there. Everything works on my DIY HID except the one part I got straight from the manufacturer. Any thoughts on what might be wrong? When I plug the battery directly into the light, it works. When I plug the battery to the light through the Trail-Tech switch, it works, but it won't turn off. I called Trail Tech. They said to send it in and they would take a look at it.

Here's what I ordered from batteryspace.com:

Trail-Tech Individual 13W MR11 Eclipse HID Light Assembly for HID Lighting DIY
12 Degree flood
Part#: HM-HIDEHID-X

11.1V 7.2 Ah Li-Ion Battery in Water Bottle + Smart Charger for HID / Halogen Bikelight
Part#: CH-UNLI72C09

As I said above, I got the Trail Tech switch bought from the manufacturer. I believe it's the one on this page, except mine is blue.

I had to solder the female connecter to the switch cord, and I'm far from a master at that, so let me know if that could cause this problem. I don't see how it could, but if I knew what was really wrong, I wouldn't be posting this. Also, the battery has not been fully charged.

Fortunately, the light works off old NiMH battery from my POS Cygo-Lite HID system. That has a switch that works. But I'd really like to swtich to the Li-Ion battery if I could.

Also, someone said that I don't need a switch with a low battery indicator. Is that correct? If I don;t need it, how do I know to turn off the light before I damage either the battery or the light?

I used it going to work this morning in the dark and home from work in the rain. I connected it directly to the Li-Ion battery. It's really bright. Now, if I can just get a switch that works.

I'm almost there. Everything works on my DIY HID except the one part I got straight from the manufacturer. Any thoughts on what might be wrong? When I plug the battery directly into the light, it works. When I plug the battery to the light through the Trail-Tech switch, it works, but it won't turn off. I called Trail Tech. They said to send it in and they would take a look at it.

Here's what I ordered from batteryspace.com:

Trail-Tech Individual 13W MR11 Eclipse HID Light Assembly for HID Lighting DIY
12 Degree flood
Part#: HM-HIDEHID-X

11.1V 7.2 Ah Li-Ion Battery in Water Bottle + Smart Charger for HID / Halogen Bikelight
Part#: CH-UNLI72C09

As I said above, I got the Trail Tech switch bought from the manufacturer. I believe it's the one on this page, except mine is blue.

I had to solder the female connecter to the switch cord, and I'm far from a master at that, so let me know if that could cause this problem. I don't see how it could, but if I knew what was really wrong, I wouldn't be posting this. Also, the battery has not been fully charged.

Fortunately, the light works off old NiMH battery from my POS Cygo-Lite HID system. That has a switch that works. But I'd really like to swtich to the Li-Ion battery if I could.

Also, someone said that I don't need a switch with a low battery indicator. Is that correct? If I don;t need it, how do I know to turn off the light before I damage either the battery or the light?

I used it going to work this morning in the dark and home from work in the rain. I connected it directly to the Li-Ion battery. It's really bright. Now, if I can just get a switch that works.

It seems that a lot of people have problems with Trail Tech lights and their switches. Check out this thread from Mtbr.com for four pages of info on the light.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=78470&highlight=TrailTech

BTW I thought I'd just chime in, you should be able to adjust the focus a bit by changing the distance from the spark to the back of the reflector. If you were making a homemade unit, you might even be able to have the entire bulb assembly in like a damper assembly that has a knurled end threaded on the back of it that allows you to dynamically adjust the focus.

I'm almost there. Everything works on my DIY HID except the one part I got straight from the manufacturer. Any thoughts on what might be wrong? When I plug the battery directly into the light, it works. When I plug the battery to the light through the Trail-Tech switch, it works, but it won't turn off. I called Trail Tech. They said to send it in and they would take a look at it.

I think if you just wait a little longer you will get the switch problem worked out. There seems to be a pretty good chance it really is a switch problem. Hang in there untill you talk to Trail Tech about the switch. I think you're almost done.

BTW I thought I'd just chime in, you should be able to adjust the focus a bit by changing the distance from the spark to the back of the reflector. If you were making a homemade unit, you might even be able to have the entire bulb assembly in like a damper assembly that has a knurled end threaded on the back of it that allows you to dynamically adjust the focus.

I would like to place my order now for one "Slvoidlights adjustable focus HID with flip down glare shield" before they are all sold out.

I would also like one "Supercooled LED" headlight. I could pick those up at the factory on my bike in two days, provided I have enough ammo.

:) :rolleyes:

Heh believe it or not, if I use the machinist we have at work, I can probably design it and have it built for the same price as your edison. ;)


I would like to place my order now for one "Slvoidlights adjustable focus HID with flip down glare shield" before they are all sold out.

I would also like one "Supercooled LED" headlight. I could pick those up at the factory on my bike in two days, provided I have enough ammo.

:) :rolleyes:

I think if you just wait a little longer you will get the switch problem worked out. There seems to be a pretty good chance it really is a switch problem. Hang in there untill you talk to Trail Tech about the switch. I think you're almost done.
Thanks. Do you know if I am damaging the light by hooking it directly to the battery?

There was an issue with some batteries giving off too much initial voltage after a fresh charge and destroying the HID bulb connected directly to it.

I have that light hooked directly to a battery. It's simply a question of voltage. The ballast in the light ideally wants 12.8-13.5 volts. TrailTech lists 14.8V as the max. I'm running mine on 12.6V straight into the light. I've had no problems with this setup.

Before, I ran a 14.4v, unregulated, into the light. a 14.4v NiMH puts out > 14.8V for > 1 hour at load, and I fried the HID. But if you use a 12V pack you won't have this problem.

If I was doing it over again I'd get a 12V NiMH and be done. I didn't go with LiIon because LiIon shuts down in cold temps, which is mainly when I need the light.

The switch on the TrailTech lights acts as a voltage regulator so that it doesn't fry the ballast, which is built into the HID capsule itself. In cars, the ballast is pretty sophisticated, and can smooth out fluctuations in current, but the ones that are on bike-sized lights are less so.

To have a HID bike light where you could adjust the beam like you can on a Mag-lite [turning it to adjust the focus of the beam], you would want to do it with a projector/lens arrangement instead of changing the position of the reflector. That would also allow you to introduce a cut-off shield if desired.

Heh believe it or not, if I use the machinist we have at work, I can probably design it and have it built for the same price as your edison. ;)

Funny and true at the same time.

Probably less. :o Too late for me!

Thanks to everyone. I think I'll just use my old Cygolite NiMH battery (which has an internal switch) until I get the switch back from Trail Tech.

Trail Tech said the switch worked for them. So I'm back to no switch. I just ran the light directly into the battery, and it was brighter than a car headlight. I timed it, and it ran for 7 hours 20 minutes before the battery died. I used a volt meter to check it just to make sure it didn't drop below 9 volts. It was 10.7 volts before I started my ride this morning, and died en route.

I think I'm just going to get a simple $5 switch from batteryspace. Once I get it fully hooked up, I plan on trying to add a rear LED to it. This is getting addictive.

But for roughly $275 (including the mistaken $35 purchase of a Trail Tech switch). I have a 13w HID that's as bright as a car headlight and runs for more than 7 hours on a charge. I am pleased. Thanks for all of your help.

Trail Tech said the switch worked for them. So I'm back to no switch. I just ran the light directly into the battery, and it was brighter than a car headlight. I timed it, and it ran for 7 hours 20 minutes before the battery died. I used a volt meter to check it just to make sure it didn't drop below 9 volts. It was 10.7 volts before I started my ride this morning, and died en route.

I think I'm just going to get a simple $5 switch from batteryspace. Once I get it fully hooked up, I plan on trying to add a rear LED to it. This is getting addictive.

But for roughly $275 (including the mistaken $35 purchase of a Trail Tech switch). I have a 13w HID that's as bright as a car headlight and runs for more than 7 hours on a charge. I am pleased. Thanks for all of your help.

It sounds as if the switch is not just a switch. It may have some circuitry inside it. Did you try reversing the wires of your connection?

It sounds as if the switch is not just a switch. It may have some circuitry inside it. Did you try reversing the wires of your connection?
No. Could that be the problem? Electricity flows through it. The problem is that the switch won't switch off.

No. Could that be the problem? Electricity flows through it. The problem is that the switch won't switch off.

Yes it definitely could, try it. I'll betcha a coffee that's it. Unless the switch has more than two wires, then the bet is off.:)

How many wires coming out of the switch? Can you post a picture of it?

daily:

there's a huge ~18 month old thread on mtbr.com about tt lights in the "best prices" forum. (edit - i just looked and i cant find the thread, maybe it got moved or archived).

the switch is a voltage regulator + switch (edit - sorry, PINKROBE already stated this) . they've had problems with this component, and last i read were on the 3rd generation, and it sounded like it still didnt work 100 percent.

tt cust service is probably gonna say anything to get you to leave em alone. i bet they hate those lights now.

batteryspace.com sells the tt hid, possibly more that tt (?). bs's solution to the bad switch/reg was to go with lower V battery and bypass the problematic switch/regulator unit.

btw, this topic has already been discussed on this forum, so you might want to search for it.

a few folks have observed that the "bargain" tt hid and its problematic performance makes l&m et al HID look like a real good deal on ebay at $350.

btw tt is now selling a 30w MR16 size hid thats not too expensive. seems like it would be the ideal basis for constructing the ultimate single lamp bike headlamp system. i guess you'd need 8-10 amp-hrs of battery to go with it.

Yes it definitely could, try it. I'll betcha a coffee that's it. Unless the switch has more than two wires, then the bet is off.:)

How many wires coming out of the switch? Can you post a picture of it?
I don't have a digital camara, but there are two wires coming out of it one either side. I should also add that the switch (mal)functions the same way when I connect it to my old 12v NiMh battery.

I don't have a digital camara, but there are two wires coming out of it one either side. I should also add that the switch (mal)functions the same way when I connect it to my old 12v NiMh battery.


That's good to hear, it reinforces my theory a little. It helps eliminate one thing I was thinking about.
Are you waiting for the switch to get to you now?
If you are waiting don't worry about it not working, and don't run the light without it.

I think there is not much else that can be differerent between what you did and what TT did. It is also typical for that kind of product to need the wires connected only in one way. I really think that's it, unless there is something special to shut it off like two pushes of the button, or to hold it for longer than you did. Did any instructions or a schematic come with the switch? Did you see anything on paper, or on the switch, or even on the wires, that said "load" or "line" ?

I did some looking around. I found this. It has two cables one on each side. Each cable has a few wires inside it. I don't know how many. This complicates things. I still think that the difference is that you connected the wires to the battery wrong or the light wrong. If you have two wires in each cable (two for the light and two for the battery) and you get the same result when you try it, one at a time try the wires reversed. You could fry the whole mess doing this too! For something like this there needs to be instructions or a diagram and an understanding of them, to do this right. If you suspect you are in over your head and you have instructions, get help before hooking it up.

This also reinforces that you need this to run the light without damage. Otherwise you will fry the thing eventually. You need it to prevent damaging the battery too. This is important.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All Trail Tech Helmet mounted light kits ship with our HID light controller:
Soft start switch provides optimum power-on conditions for HID lights.
Auto detects between 12 volt and 14.4 volt operating systems.
Battery Low protection prevents damage to rechargable battery sources

Thanks for ll of the help. You're pix is what I have. Unfortunately, I don't have an instruction manual for the switch. At one end of the switch, it has a male connector that came with it. On the other end, it has one red and one black cable. I soldered the red cable to the center of a female connector and the black cable to the outer piece. Then, I attached the soldered female connector to the male connector that comes from the battery. Voila. 7 hours and 20 minutes of power.

The lamp also came with a red and a black cable. Again, I soldered the black to the outer piece of a female connector and the black to the inner piece. I think that must be fine because it works just fine when I connect it directly to the Cygolite battery (which has a switch as part of the battery).

The battery appeared to cut off when it was supposed to. It was 10.6v before a ride to work and died on the way. It's now recharged back to 12.6v and works again.

I think I'll take it to the electronics store where I got a bunch of the stuff to see if they'll help. It's a lot like an LBS--higher prices but the owner knows his stuff and is willing to help. The only problem is that it's hard to get there when it's open. It's open 9-5 M-F.

When I finally get this done, I'll borrow a digital camera from someone and pass it one. Thanks for all of your help!

Thanks for ll of the help. You're pix is what I have. Unfortunately, I don't have an instruction manual for the switch. At one end of the switch, it has a male connector that came with it. On the other end, it has one red and one black cable. I soldered the red cable to the center of a female connector and the black cable to the outer piece. Then, I attached the soldered female connector to the male connector that comes from the battery. Voila. 7 hours and 20 minutes of power.

The lamp also came with a red and a black cable. Again, I soldered the black to the outer piece of a female connector and the black to the inner piece. I think that must be fine because it works just fine when I connect it directly to the Cygolite battery (which has a switch as part of the battery).

The battery appeared to cut off when it was supposed to. It was 10.6v before a ride to work and died on the way. It's now recharged back to 12.6v and works again.

I think I'll take it to the electronics store where I got a bunch of the stuff to see if they'll help. It's a lot like an LBS--higher prices but the owner knows his stuff and is willing to help. The only problem is that it's hard to get there when it's open. It's open 9-5 M-F.

When I finally get this done, I'll borrow a digital camera from someone and pass it one. Thanks for all of your help!


Your descriptions are very good, I think I know what things look like now.

Using the Cygolight battery does not prove or disprove anything without knowing what is under the cover that holds the switch and the little red light, and without knowing the polarity of the plug or connector. Don't open the cover and look. Just because it works does not mean the polarity for the solid state circuit is right,or wrong either.
It's a good thing that you posted the info about using the Cygo battery though, it still is helpful.

If you did not know which was (+) and which was (-) when you soldered the wires to the connector, the chances are highest that it is reversed, compared to some other kind of problem. Your chances of doing it wrong or right is about 50/50. I bet you're not happy about the possibility of resoldering those wires ? Been there, done that.:(

Most of the other things have already been eliminated. The only thing that is not working is the circuit in the "switch" does not shut off the light, but it works for TT. So it's probably connected wrong somehow. It's a solid state circuit turning the light on and off, not the mechanical switch alone.

Good luck at the store, if you get the right person you should be all set. Don't forget to bring everything, not just the switch. Good plan to go to the store.