View Full Version : Training Plan vs. Adhoc Riding
Furious_G
04-09-06, 11:03 PM
Had my first ever road race on the weekend (www.colerainetour.com)
I entered my self in C grade and I came 12th out of 50 including a 2nd on one of the KOM's.
I was speaking to some people there and most were amazed that I had no coach or training program.
Basically what I do is ride to work about 4 days a week (30kms each way in heavy traffic) and ride about 80~100km each day on the weekend (roughly about 420kms for the week).
I don't do intervals or anything, I just go out and ride hard from the start to the end. Not flat out but about 8/10 for effort.
My question is: would a specific training program wirtten by a coach / pro make me a better cyclist than what I am doing now? Bear in mind the traffic I ride in (and traffic lights) make it near impossible to do much of anything useful whilst commuting. I always ride by myself and not in a group.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
531Aussie
04-09-06, 11:19 PM
I often wonder exactly how important VERY specific training routines are. Brad McGee came straight off the 2004 Tour and won a gold and a silver medal in the team and individual pursuit. His lead-up didn't involve any specificity, all he did was "bust his guts" for 3 weeks in The Tour.
I really believe that training with adrenalin, ie, in races or competitive groups is a very effective way to train, as long as the standard is tough enough.
I am in roughly a similar situation; what i think would happen and has happened to me is you would reach a plateau which accords with your current riding "program". That plateau would place in a certain spot in competition. If you wanted to do better, you would need to elevate your plateau, perhaps with more specific training. Also, your muscles take years to reach their plateau as opposed to your cardio system which takes no more than a year.
Similar situation here, I commute 50k a day 5 days a week, and do 80-160 k on weekend day, take one weekeend day off.
I've tried to think of a way to convert some of the commutes to follow a more 'training' style ride. Unfortunatly since the min distance is fixed similar to yours, we cant just make some days 1/2 the dist and 2x the effort. Also due to hills I cant make a day a recovery ride style either.
About all you can do is try to add intervals on the home commute one or two days a week.
Similar situation here, I commute 50k a day 5 days a week, and do 80-160 k on weekend day, take one weekeend day off.
I've tried to think of a way to convert some of the commutes to follow a more 'training' style ride. Unfortunatly since the min distance is fixed similar to yours, we cant just make some days 1/2 the dist and 2x the effort. Also due to hills I cant make a day a recovery ride style either.
How about your granny gear? One can make any hill a recovery ride with a low enough gear. (Except extreme ones)
DannoXYZ
04-10-06, 02:58 AM
Yeah, the route and distance isn't a big concern. You can customize your programme by making your commute into a series of 1-block long 100% all-out screaming sprints with recovery for 3-4 blocks. Another day can have 2-3 mile intervals. Another day can be tempo pace the whole way. Hill-intervals to blow up at the top on others. Recovery is simply a matter of granny gears and keeping the HR down the entire time... :)
as for this:
I don't do intervals or anything, I just go out and ride hard from the start to the end. Not flat out but about 8/10 for effort. This is fine for winning C-races and getting you into mid-pack at the next level up. But you won't be winning them either. This kind of training is getting caught in "no man's land" of training, not enough intensity and not enough distance.
In order to do well at the higher categories, you need to be able to hit 50-65kph at 100% effort in order to hang on to some of the breaks and contest the finish. No way to achieve that kind of speed unless you actually train at those kinds of speeds. Which requires using periodization on the ride itself (sprint, recover, sprint, recover, etc.) as well as on weekly and monthly macrocycles. Some days will be sprint days, some intervals, some tempo, some hill-climbs, some endurance, some recovery, etc. Stringing a series of these days into optimized weeks and several weeks together per macrocycle is how you can improve as fast as possible. Sure, you don't have to have every day planned out for a year and you don't have to stick to it religiously, you'll just improve at a slower rate, not a big deal unless your paycheck depends on it. ;)
How about your granny gear? One can make any hill a recovery ride with a low enough gear. (Except extreme ones)
In my lowest gear, I cannot spin up my hills, I cannot even sit and pedal up some of them. They require standing and hammering. See my sig :)
Unfortunatly ( or fortuantly depending on how you look at it) , i live on a steep hill.
In fact, on one of the routes up my hill, is a plaque. Where it states that the "Man In Motion" around the world trip that Rick Hansen did (http://www.rickhansen.com/) this was the 2nd steepest hill he went up. The first was a section of the great wall in China.
Wow. What's the grade?
No idea
But the ironic part is the city has it listed as a main bike route on the citys bike map :p
Its fairly short though, probably 5-600 ft elevation change, but i cant get up without breathing thru my ears, defeating the recovery ride part :)
531Aussie
04-10-06, 11:49 PM
^^^^^ that would make it tough to have easy/spin days on the bike.
The old adage that "racing is the best form of training" really rings true for me. When I'm chasing or being chased by a group of dudes, I'm capable of near super-human efforts that are impossible when I'm riding alone!! :p
timmhaan
04-11-06, 08:57 AM
i'm the opposite. i really respond better to a training program. i used to ride unstructured and sucked at my first few races. i was being dropped early on.
for me, adding structure, recovery, and eating better made all the difference. i'm a weak rider to begin with and have little to no natural talent for this sport, so i really need to rely on training to get by.
Furious_G
04-12-06, 04:32 PM
Becuase of where I am (Melbourne, Australia) I am already leaving for work in the semi-dark and returning in dusk so more riding outside these hours is out of the question.
Can you guys reccommend a training program that is based on my
2 x 1 hour commutes (about 4 days a week) (in traffic) (31km)
and
2 x 3~4 hour weekend rides
I have a Polar 725i with cadence, speed, heart rate, altitude, but NO power meter.
All input is welcomed. :)
Are you the guy on the MTB that I struggled to catch a few days ago on the Dandenong Creek path??? Boy, was he hammering!
Furious_G
04-12-06, 06:36 PM
Are you the guy on the MTB that I struggled to catch a few days ago on the Dandenong Creek path??? Boy, was he hammering!
Not me dude, I have a road bike. My commute starts in Templestowe and goes down reynolds road and all the way down springvale road to Keysborough then back the same way at night.
Enthalpic
04-12-06, 06:51 PM
Becuase of where I am (Melbourne, Australia) I am already leaving for work in the semi-dark and returning in dusk so more riding outside these hours is out of the question.
Can you guys reccommend a training program that is based on my
2 x 1 hour commutes (about 4 days a week) (in traffic) (31km)
and
2 x 3~4 hour weekend rides
I have a Polar 725i with cadence, speed, heart rate, altitude, but NO power meter.
All input is welcomed. :)
It’s hard to make a solid training plan that fits into commuting. If fact many coaches forbid commuting as the unstructured miles add fatigue; thereby reducing the quality of the hard sessions and it also lengthens recovery. However, you can increase the quality of your commuting miles.
At least two of the four commuting days have to be full recovery, so go slower (leave early) and don’t sprint off the stop lines. The other two days can be harder. The key is to not get trapped into medium, medium, medium, medium…. You want easy, hard, easy, hard, rest.
On the harder days play around with how you ride. Do it mostly standing, seated only, overgeared (strength workout) or undergeared (high cadence workout).
Read the cyclists training bible by Joe Friel.
At least two of the four commuting days have to be full recovery, so go slower (leave early) and don’t sprint off the stop lines. The other two days can be harder. The key is to not get trapped into medium, medium, medium, medium…. You want easy, hard, easy, hard, rest.
.
This has always made me wonder if driving one day a week would be better for performance improvement.
I'm definatly in the medmium x 5 camp, with longer rodes on the weekend. With no ability to reduce a ride to purely recovery, would it be better to do...
mon - medium ride
tue - push hard, intervals on way home
wed - drive in
thur - medium
fri - higher intensity
sat - long 3x distance
VosBike
04-16-06, 06:37 PM
Jarery, that new routine seems like a very good idea. You'll still need to switch things up week to week, but as an example week that looks excelent.
The only problem i forsee is that after a time doing this routine your commute simply won't be long enough to keep imporving.
ft_critical
04-18-06, 09:12 PM
At least two of the four commuting days have to be full recovery, so go slower (leave early) and don’t sprint off the stop lines. The other two days can be harder. The key is to not get trapped into medium, medium, medium, medium…. You want easy, hard, easy, hard, rest.
On the harder days play around with how you ride. Do it mostly standing, seated only, overgeared (strength workout) or undergeared (high cadence workout).
Read the cyclists training bible by Joe Friel.
I have been trying to find answers to these questions myself. I do a 30k round trip commute from Glen Iris to the City along the Yarra (sorry to the non-Melburnians) with almost no traffic lights or stops (well for 13k each way at least). I commute 5 days because I just can't stand going back to public transport. I am trying the following routine:
HRM – somewhere between measured at 182 and I think what I have observed at 188 (difficult to be sure it is not interference)
• Mon – Brisk – HR avg 150, about 29kph avg.
• Tues – Hard – HR avg 165, high cadence, about 32kph avg
• Wed – Hard – HR avg 155, big gears, about 30.5 kph avg
• Thurs – Recovery – HR avg still about 130…, speed pretty slow
• Fri – Intervals – These are about 5-800m sprints between landmarks, followed by really slow rides. I am pushing 177 HR then recovering to 130’s 140’s before sprinting again.
• Sat – break
• Sun – either a group ride to Sassafras (80k) or down to the coast around 130k. Don’t really have averages on these yet because the cateye computer on my roadie has b...all functionality.
The reason for trying to put some structure in this is that on the 7km 1 in 20 climb up the Dandenong’s I am getting dropped. Yet, say on Cantebury Road, which is hilly but the hills go for a max of 800m, I am really strong. Clearly, this is because most of my work has been sprints to work at high cadence. I am trying to use the big gear day to replicate the long slow climb to Sassafras.
In one of the other posts someone said that they thought it was possible to be fit for sprints, hills and endurance. I am not sure I can do it via my commute though.
Does, Friel actually cover commuting in his book?
The reason for trying to put some structure in this is that on the 7km 1 in 20 climb up the Dandenong’s I am getting dropped. Yet, say on Cantebury Road, which is hilly but the hills go for a max of 800m, I am really strong. Clearly, this is because most of my work has been sprints to work at high cadence. I am trying to use the big gear day to replicate the long slow climb to Sassafras.
Could be that you have the wrong build for a good climber. If you are strong and light, you will climb well. If you are strong and heavy, you will be better on the flats.
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