Touring - Classic 80s Touring Rigs

In another thread, someone mentioned these bikes as being the classic 80s touring rigs:

* Trek 720
* Specialized Expedition
* Miyata 1000
* Univega Gran Turismo

Are there others out there? This isn't meant as a request for an exhaustive list of any and every bike that somebody labelled a touring bike, or that ever had a pannier attached to it. Nor is it meant as a search for the most expensive custom rigs ever built.

But I am wondering what bikes properly deserve mention in the same breath as the classic Trek 720? And what are there respective strengths and weaknesses?

Schwinn Voyageur....one of the best!

Trek 520 and Raleigh; after about '86 or so, mtbs like Fisher, Specialized, Diamond Back &etc.

Which Raleigh?

The 1000 is about the best touring bike ever made. I had a 610 (slightly cheaper model) and even used it a couple times in road races after stripping it down. Very stiff, stable while still handling nicely around corners, and not too terribly heavy for 1982 at 23 lbs.

Az

I have a repairable Miyata 1000 frame. Someday, someday. Do classic touring bike have to be from large/mainstream companies like Trek, Miyata, and Raleigh? There are a few small, even solo builders that have been making true hardcore touring bikes since the 1970s. Would some of them count?

Which Raleigh?

The Raleigh I know had [probably straight guage] Reynolds tubing (not 520--can't remember which) and a seat stay tube that was wrapped entirely around the stem-side of the seatpost tube (above the top tube) in one continuous piece from axle to axle. Never seen another bike made that way.

Also, rack and pump fittings, triple crank, high flange hubs, narrow tubing but also a heavy bike. Ugly green color tho. Actually, late 70s. :)

I have a repairable Miyata 1000 frame. Someday, someday. Do classic touring bike have to be from large/mainstream companies like Trek, Miyata, and Raleigh? There are a few small, even solo builders that have been making true hardcore touring bikes since the 1970s. Would some of them count?I just didn't want to muddy the waters with touring bikes that were great bikes but that were out of reach for most people price-wise. Let's say if the bikes you're referring to were in the same ball-park price-wise, then they should be counted. Same with bikes from the 70s or 90s. But only bikes that were purpose-built as loaded touring bikes-- not other types of bikes, like mt. bikes, for example-- that were pressed into service for touring. Only bikes built for loaded touring.

What I'd like to get is a sense of which bikes belong in this category, and what their strengths and weaknesses were. For example, the Univega Gran Turismo is made from triple-butted CroMoly, but somebody mentioned that it has a relatively high bottom bracket.

Never seen another bike made that way.I've seen that seat stay treatment on at least one other 70s Raleigh-- I think it was a Grand Prix. Look closely at the seat stays in the attached pic...

Raleigh Alyeska (http://www.discountbikes.net/road/raleigh-alyeska/)

I have three touring bikes - 1969 Paramount - spread to 130, Campy racing triple 11-28, 50-40-26 so many 1000's of miles still going strong and looks great.

1998 Waterford 1900 " From InterBike Show" - 9 speed Durace Barends, 11-34 - Still running Ultegra triple - but bottom end is now a 26, Tubus racks - 1.25 Top Tours

3/4 Built NOS Miyata Valley Runner, Hugi Hubs 217 Mavic, Durace 8 speed barends, XT - 12-32, Black Brooks B-17 Special, Sugino AT's 48-34-24.

I had the Univerga mentioned not much of a bike - Trek 720's and Specialized Expeditions awesome, Fugi made some nice touring bikes also and I rode with a guy with Alyeska and it seemed well built

I have a Nishiki Cresta, from maybe 1983. It is a dedicated touring bike, and I have a picture of it up on the "loaded rig" thread.

It is lugged, butted chro-mo steel (Tange something-or-other), with 5 speed freewheel, and Suntour/Sugino except for BB and rear der, which I've replaced with Shimano, and a new Nitto stem. It had the Suntour Mountech derailleurs, of which supposedly the rear derailleur was a serious liability. Mine was just wearing out, and also not able to handle my silly 38-tooth cog.

I've done one short trip, and lots of local riding. I'm happy with it, although I lust for a new bike. Ken Kifer had one, but was not too enthusiastic about it (kenkifer.com). They are/were a middling-to-good production bike, but not too common now, I guess. If anyone knows more about them, I'd be interested.

I've seen that seat stay treatment on at least one other 70s Raleigh-- I think it was a Grand Prix. Look closely at the seat stays in the attached pic...

That would be it. As you can see, it has a long wheelbase. That's what you're looking for, e.g., any older bike that has slack angles (instead of more compact "upright" 73-74 degree angles) and, longish chainstay length.

I really think you have to include the the Miyata 610 touring bike as one of the classic touring rigs, with essentially the same great equipment as the 1000, but with a frame that was considered as strong if not stronger than the 1000. Also for consideration was the Fuji America touring bikes in the 80s, including quality components as well as touring details such as brazed-on spoke holders, 40 spoke rear wheel, triple bottle mounts and fork lowrider mounts.

I rode a Nishiki international (mid 80s I think) with biopace rings up front with the remainder of the drivetrain being 6spd suntour accushift stuff. I rode the wheels of the thing, but I still have the frame. The frame has canti-mounts, eyelets for fenders racks, and front low-rider mounts.

Schwinn Voyageur....one of the best!
Not a good bike in the 25" size. It would wobble like it was made out of rubber bands. Mine was finally stolen and I (finally) replaced it with a '90 Atala cyclocross bike that has NONE of the shaking problems that the Voyageur had though I believe it may be a tad heavier. Also the Atala doesn't sting your hands when you ride over a railroad track but that might have to do with the handlebars.

Also the Atala doesn't sting your hands when you ride over a railroad track but that might have to do with the handlebars.In what way (might it have to do with the handlebars)?

Not a good bike in the 25" size. It would wobble like it was made out of rubber bands. Mine was finally stolen and I (finally) replaced it with a '90 Atala cyclocross bike that has NONE of the shaking problems that the Voyageur had though I believe it may be a tad heavier.Have people found that it makes any difference, or no difference, to use a bike other than a bike with touring geometry? What I mean is if you've toured with both bikes purpose-built for loaded touring, and other, non-touring bikes, did you notice any appreciable difference?

I have toured on bikes with touring geometry and with racing geometry. There are differences. Touring bikes have rack mounts and clearences designed for comfort. Racing bikes are about being effcient and quick handling. I never really noticed much in the road shock transmission, but the relaxed handling of the touring bikes (low BB, longish fork rake and stays) makes eating and drinking under way much easier and steadyer, and less "swervey". Its also much easier to control the tourng bike in heavy winds with traffic flying by you. They are less likely to try to fly under the 18 wheeler that just blew past. Also, on the mecanical side, its a pain in the butt to try and rig racks on a bike with no eylets, and the rigged rack tends to losten, slide, and come detached.

This is my 80's Trek 620, with a few updates. It's a full-on touring bike in every sense.
http://static.flickr.com/37/102210570_16b460c7bf.jpg?v=0

Fun thread! The three all-time 1980's classic standard bearers (for production touring bikes) have to be the Miyata 1000, Specialized Expedition, and the Trek 720. These three land cruisers got the touring specs just right--awesome touring bikes, even by today's standards. Others that follow include the Nishiki Cresta and Nishiki Continental, Raleigh Alyeska, Univega Gran Turismo, Schwinn Voyager, Fuji America.....Trek 520. The Dawes Galaxy has been around forever and fits right in here too, as well as nice touring-specific models from Centurian and Panasonic (can't remember their names). In the early '90s the Bridgestone RB-T entered the picture carrying the lugged-steel production touring standard for awhile.

Here (http://www.daystarbotanicals.com/bicycles/index_exp.html) and here (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journal/page/?o=sx&page_id=30234&v=51) are pics of my '83 Specialized Expedition--an awesome touring rig!

Ted Phelps
Central Valley, CA

If you want to get a bit exotic, the Rene Herse marque in France, now lost to history offered some classic touring bikes http://www.pianosromantiques.com/projetRH.html

The great "King of Mercia" is still made in the UK--and at a pretty reasonable price, all things considered: http://www.merciancycles.com/bikes.asp

I'm sure there are other classic British bikes as well.

I just didn't want to muddy the waters with touring bikes that were great bikes but that were out of reach for most people price-wise. Let's say if the bikes you're referring to were in the same ball-park price-wise, then they should be counted. Same with bikes from the 70s or 90s. But only bikes that were purpose-built as loaded touring bikes-- not other types of bikes, like mt. bikes, for example-- that were pressed into service for touring. Only bikes built for loaded touring.

What I'd like to get is a sense of which bikes belong in this category, and what their strengths and weaknesses were. For example, the Univega Gran Turismo is made from triple-butted CroMoly, but somebody mentioned that it has a relatively high bottom bracket.

Thanks for the excellent reply. It is fair for the general public to sent a loose limit. Yet, on a recent ride a visitor asked a small group what their bikes cost. At $1,600 my Bruce Gordon was the least expensive out of six bikes. The top was some $3,400. I've bought four tourers and pay a bit more each time.

We got a lot of Peugeot bikes in the late 70s and 80s, not sure what the touring models were called. I had one in the 70s.

I also wonder if during the 80s Nashbar had their touring frame out already. Rings a bell but I could be wrong.

Have people found that it makes any difference, or no difference, to use a bike other than a bike with touring geometry? What I mean is if you've toured with both bikes purpose-built for loaded touring, and other, non-touring bikes, did you notice any appreciable difference?
I should note that my Atala cyclocross bike is from circa '90 and back then the cyclocross geometry was quite close to touring geometry so I can't tell any difference.

The old touring handlebars were made quite heavily compared to modern handlebars and they were much narrower (38 cm normal width if memory serves) making them a great deal stiffer. Consequently they didn't bend at all and transmitted road shocks straight to your hands. When you rode over railroad tracks you'd almost scream from the shock to your palms.

People tended to let loose of the bars over tracks because of that and would crash more often. Today I haven't had that problem. Bars are wider and lighter and flex a little.

i recently picked up a miyata 615 on ebay. i've been told it may be an early 90's model, actually, so may not fit in this thread--it has a 6 speed cassette (18sp altogether), and downtube shifters. i haven't toured on it, but i commute 20 miles roundtrip to work on it, and i really enjoy the ride (much more than the trip on my previous bike, an early 80's le tour). it's triple-butted cromoly frame, the same as the 1000's, but maybe cheaper components. i was curious about it's history, tho'. i see lots of 610's and 1000's, but this is the only 615 i've come across. i've heard that bike manufacturers sometimes add a new or modified line of bikes in a production year, and so these bikes often come in under the radar, so to speak, and/or are maybe not produced in the same quantities. did miyata decide to upgrade/modify the 610 in mid-"season"? or is the 615 a branch in the evolution of miyata bikes?

I've heard that the small-framed 615's used a 24" front wheel. Otherwise, I'd been of the impression that they were a replacement in the model lineup (for the 610).

For anybody who's interested, the July 1984 issue of Bicycling had an article on loaded tourers, complete with a comparison between the Trek 720, the Specialized Expedition, and the Cannondale ST-500. What's really useful about this article, in my opinion, is that it has spec comparison sheets for every loaded touring bike made that year.

Any chance of a scan?

I can try. Failing that, I can make photocopies. I'll try a scan first.

I forgot to add the best touring bike from the old days - I mean the best mass produced. The Raleigh Kodiak. Although it was only sold for a couple of years they were by FAR the best touring bike I ever saw. Unfortunately mine was a 24" and I needed a 25" so I ended up selling it.

Fun thread! The three all-time 1980's classic standard bearers (for production touring bikes) have to be the Miyata 1000, Specialized Expedition, and the Trek 720. These three land cruisers got the touring specs just right--awesome touring bikes, even by today's standards. Others that follow include the Nishiki Cresta and Nishiki Continental, Raleigh Alyeska, Univega Gran Turismo, Schwinn Voyager, Fuji America.....Trek 520. The Dawes Galaxy has been around forever and fits right in here too, as well as nice touring-specific models from Centurian and Panasonic (can't remember their names). In the early '90s the Bridgestone RB-T entered the picture carrying the lugged-steel production touring standard for awhile.

Here (http://www.daystarbotanicals.com/bicycles/index_exp.html) and here (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/journal/page/?o=sx&page_id=30234&v=51) are pics of my '83 Specialized Expedition--an awesome touring rig!

Ted Phelps
Central Valley, CA

Have to agree with this.
But Canadians (like me) never got much of a chance to buy a Nishiki Cresta (the Continental was the top of the line rig) or a Schwinn, Univega, Panasonic or Fuji.
At the time, the Trek touring bikes were popular along with the Nishiki Continental and International and the Raleigh Alyeska.
We did have Velo Sport, Apollo and Marinoni though. I am unsure ie Maronini was building a dedicated touring bike in the 80's though.
*0's touring rigs seemd to get it all right by 84'-85'. These were the glory years of touring on factory bikes even though they were not big sellers at the time.

How about the Centurion Pro Tour. I have an 83 year model and have thought about touring on it. Seems like a solid bike.

I have a 1986 Miyata 1000, a 1980 Motobecane Super Tourer, a Mikado Cycle Toureur and a Velo Sport Appalachian and I have never toured on any of them! I always use a modified Mtb to tour with and I recently noticed that old Rocky Mountain catalogues from the 1980 and early 90’s list some of their early Mtb’s as touring bikes.
In my opinion the Miyata 1000 seems to be the best design out of all of the ones I have and I really enjoy riding it. This summer I will definitely take it on a long tour.

dont forget the gitane gran tour 1984
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=91067&d=1231162483

In another thread, someone mentioned these bikes as being the classic 80s touring rigs:

* Trek 720
* Specialized Expedition
* Miyata 1000
* Univega Gran Turismo

Are there others out there? . . .

I used to tour with a guy who rode Fuji Gran Tourer SE, which was a fairly cheap bike but it had a light and strong frame, long wheelbase, stable enough for him to ride no-hands while fully loaded. He'd be steaming along at 15 or 20 mph, using both hands to take pictures with this big SLR camera he carried. All in all his bike seemed just as good as the one I was riding, which was a Trek 720.

This is my 80's Trek 620, with a few updates. It's a full-on touring bike in every sense.
http://static.flickr.com/37/102210570_16b460c7bf.jpg?v=0

I have this one.


Paint on mine is a little worse-for-wear, but, it works!

I have a Nishiki Cresta, from maybe 1983. If anyone knows more about them, I'd be interested.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=390318&highlight=

Took me a minute to find it. That's about all the info I've found on them. I don't think they were that popular in the states.

I have one too:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3121323080_a897ee8830.jpg?v=0

I like it too. Same as you. Just short day trips for now.

dont forget the gitane gran tour 1984
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=91067&d=1231162483

Sweet Jesus that thing is yellow! I like that aero helmet.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=390318&highlight=

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3121323080_a897ee8830.jpg?v=0


drool...

that is gorgeous.

I was on the lookout for a second bike, so I didnt have to use my "posh" bike in the rain, however I ended up with a bargain bike, that i now love so much i havent used the posh bike, the Dawes is like the excellent all rounder, i cant say its light, as it weighs quite a bit, but its comfortable, gets up hills really easily, theres always the perfect gear, and it takes all my cycling bits, looks pretty cool with a brooks b17 saddle and carradice saddlebag, and only cost me £120 secondhand although i did pay another £40 for the saddle brand new.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2635/3765703219_8ce8055ecf_b.jpg

I have toured on bikes with touring geometry and with racing geometry. There are differences. Touring bikes have rack mounts and clearences designed for comfort. Racing bikes are about being effcient and quick handling. I never really noticed much in the road shock transmission, but the relaxed handling of the touring bikes (low BB, longish fork rake and stays) makes eating and drinking under way much easier and steadyer, and less "swervey". Its also much easier to control the tourng bike in heavy winds with traffic flying by you. They are less likely to try to fly under the 18 wheeler that just blew past. Also, on the mecanical side, its a pain in the butt to try and rig racks on a bike with no eylets, and the rigged rack tends to losten, slide, and come detached.

For a "good touring bike," how low is a low BB? How long is longish fork rake?

I have a Woodrup Giro that has been seen as a good basis for a tourer, but its BB is nowhere near "low."

Bob Jackson has been making touring bikes for a long time, but they were never mass imported to my knowledge. I bought mine new over the winter, but their basic frame design has stayed the same over the years. You see older ones on eBay from time to time, and they usually seem to have long-reach brakes rather than cantilevers.

I am still riding my Univega Gran Tourismo...but considering retiring it this year if I can find a cannondale t1 with small frame at a reasonable price. Anyone know of one for sale?

Cannondale started selling touring models in 1984. All aluminum frame, nicely designed for touring.

I have a 1984 Specialized Sequoia, which is the light touring version of the Expedition. Same geometry but without canti studs, basically. It is great.

there were a bunch of lesser known touring rigs from the 80s as well. here is a japanese shogun tourer, freshly rebuilt:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2610/4200722385_66d1e8f182.jpg

Ok so I am unsure of the year of my new touring bike. I am sure it is a 1990 but it could very well be a 1989 so it kind of fits in this category. I just think that is is a beautiful bike and built just like all other great touring bikes I have been researching. I have always loved Fuji and I think they went over the top with this bike. I love vintage bikes that still provide a reliable if not better ride than some of the bikes being produced. It is true that they don't make them like they used to.

So here is my addition to the list... '89-'90 Fuji Saratoga



130697130698beautiful bike I must say... great steel with beautiful lugging detail, decent drivetrain, spare spoke holder on the chainstay, cantilevers, good rack mounts, good seat post and stem, good ergonomic alloy bars, bar ends, good pedals, etc.

Does anybody know about what this bike went for brand new? It is comparable to most bikes touring today and I only paid $220 so I think I win.

Schwinn Voyageur....one of the best!

The 1986 Schwinn Passage, which was the touring model just below the Voyageur that year, is also pretty decent. I think 1986 was the only year it was made. It has a Columbus Tenax frame with braze-ons for 3 water bottle cages, front and rear racks, and a pump peg. Came with a 40-spoke rear wheel and Weinmann alloy rims, Dia-Compe cantilever brakes, and triple chain wheel (15-speed... 3X5). The Passage was made in the U.S.A. with imported components. It sold for about $310 in 1986 ... how quaint! My Passage was modified by a previous owner. The modifications include added Shimano safety levers (they are nice and snug, but move freely) to the brake levers, and stem shifters in place of the down tube shifters. For touring, I actually like these modifications quite a bit. I added the stainless steel fenders. They came off a very badly rusted Bridgestone Kabuki T-5 from the late '70s (?). The T-5 had 26" wheels, so I had to retrofit extenders on the rear fenders stays. I put a Brooks B-17 leather saddle on it, but kept the original Selle saddle for posterity. I have several sets of panniers for it to choose from, but like my old light blue Cannondales the most. I think the previous owner loved this bike as much as I do.

The 1986 Schwinn Passage, which was the touring model just below the Voyageur that year, is also pretty decent. I think 1986 was the only year it was made.

The 1985 Schwinn Le Tour Luxe is identicle to the '86 Passage (and a departure from the 1983-4 models). I have one that my son uses and it is a decent bike. I do noy have any pictures of mine, but here is the catalog shot:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/balindamood/Bike%20Posts/schwinn1985_01015.jpg

I ride an '84/5 Lotus Odyssey. The earlier ones were second shelf, but by '84, they really seemed to improve.

My original as found at the Salvation Army:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/balindamood/Oddysey/IMG_0606.jpg

As I cleaed it up, I ugraded the bars, shift levers, fenders, and such:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q184/balindamood/Oddysey/Picture017.jpg

The only thing I might yet change is the 36/36 spoke 27" wheels for 36/40 700C, but after 1100 mile loaded late summer and the existing wheels are doing great.