Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - New Fixed-gear Frame Available

http://www.adventurefind.com/fg/index.html

Basically, Ernesto on the Singlespeed forums of mtbr.com is selling frames. It's got all the details you need at that link. 54cm, 56cm, and 58cm available. Black. 27.2 seatpost, 1 1/8" headtube, 120mm rear spacing, black powdercoat. Frame material is just listed as Cro-Mo (from the looks of it, double-butted). TIG welded. Unicrown straightblade fork with 45mm rake. Looks like a 75 degree ST and a 72 degree HT.

$299 with free shipping and a tube of Fat Kid (http://www.adventurefind.com/hbfk/FAT_KID/index.html) soy lube.

Looks good on paper.

Although I've probably seen hundreds of plain black powdercoated frames, I can't really imagine dropping money on something sans picture.

As always, props to people for getting things done; however, I am not feeling the unicrown straight blade fork.

m.

Ernesto was soliciting opinions for what people wanted in a frame on OST's Yahoo page
so Ill be interested to see what he comes up with. I think he said someone he met at
the indy bike builders show helped him get it manufactured. The fat kid lube is a
good substitute for K-Y if yer in a pinch :p

Does the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?

Does the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?

How many black no-name cr-mo track frames are there?

The ones I had made were at least gloss black :)

Does the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?


I don't see anything wrong with that.

[QUOTE=paul_in_toronto]Does the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?[QUOTE]


who cares whether it is "needed." The more appropriate question is whether there is market demand for another such frame. If there is then this guy will do great. If not, it wont be on the market long.

I don't see what all your attitude is about. Besides, the more firms making the same or equivilent products mean the price on black no-name cromo "track" frames will come down due to increased competition. {i paid attention to those supply and demand graphs in school**

All I know about Ernesto is he references his own nut-sack every single time he posts on the ss-mtbr forum. It's kind of amazing.

why such a limited frame size selection?

why such a limited frame size selection?

probably to keep initial manufacturing costs down

[QUOTE=paul_in_toronto]Does the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?[QUOTE]


who cares whether it is "needed." The more appropriate question is whether there is market demand for another such frame. If there is then this guy will do great. If not, it wont be on the market long.

I don't see what all your attitude is about. Besides, the more firms making the same or equivilent products mean the price on black no-name cromo "track" frames will come down due to increased competition. {i paid attention to those supply and demand graphs in school**


I think it's a valid question.
Why make something that already exists (pake, bareknuckle, IRO, mercier)
From both a business and creative standpoint, I'd like to see something a little different - even if it is just color.
I dunno, I don't think it's a dig against the builder at all.
It's just something to think about.

too bad that fork doesn't have canti-bosses.

Agreed, it may very well be that the market is flooded with these types of no-name black cro-mo track bikes. I'm just saying, a little competition doesn't hurt the price

Ernesto seems like a genuine guy who is really into
what he does....To me its like the IRO / Velocity / Kogswell / Walker
type thing....buying from somebody who is realy into what he does
and co-mingles with the ppls he markets to might be someone you
would want to buy from on principal more than a Mercier or something
like that.
I guess I better change my avatar :eek:

hahaha. i think it might be getting close to happening....i saw it on the horizon and now it might be happening. what im getting at is this....im waiting for some one to drop a track frame that goes for nothing is quality and comes a bunch of colors(think bareknuckle but waaaaaaaaaay cheaper). then the market will hopefully bust open.








man what brand of crack am i smoking? i can dream though right?

I would buy pink and purple track frames
like newspapers.....a few a week !!! :eek: :p

hahaha. i think it might be getting close to happening....i saw it on the horizon and now it might be happening. what im getting at is this.... im waiting for some one to drop a track frame that goes for nothing is quality and comes a bunch of colors
If the folks at bikesdirect.com sold the frame-only of the Motobecane Messenger, Mercier Kilo TT, Windsor "The Hour", and the Fuji Track frames it would already be done. Between the 4 of them you've got blue, orange, black, and red. If you count older Fujis, you get even more colors.

[QUOTE=paul_in_toronto]Does the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?[QUOTE]


who cares whether it is "needed." The more appropriate question is whether there is market demand for another such frame. If there is then this guy will do great. If not, it wont be on the market long.

I don't see what all your attitude is about. Besides, the more firms making the same or equivilent products mean the price on black no-name cromo "track" frames will come down due to increased competition. {i paid attention to those supply and demand graphs in school**

Yes there is market demand, but there is also a LOT of competition with companies and products at similar price points with established reputations and distribution. With outsourced production the Taiwanese factories that crank these similar frames out for various manufacturers right next to each other are laughing all the way to the bank.

The cost might come down with competition, but the guy shipping them out of his garage is probably going to take the brunt of having to lower prices because with small production runs (unlike the Treks of the world) he is not in a position to strongarm the plants (or the agent contracting the work) into giving him much of a break on what the frames are costing.

Does this frame have features that distinguish it from the competition? Maybe, but the differences are probably pretty subtle and might not be apparent without riding the thing or seeing it in person (or... hell even in a picture on a web site).

No matter how good this frame is, a few glowing reviews on this forum and FGG can't take the place of a marketing department. How many would-be noobs post here asking for opinions on the relative merits of Langsters, Pistas, Rush Hours, etc... ? These companies have the money and muscle to get these bikes in shops, advertise them, get them reviewed, etc... Also, the average noob wants a BIKE, not a frame which brings me to my next point.

It is virtually impossible to put together a lower end complete bike from new parts for cheaper than you can buy a similar one off the shelf. Why do people build up frames?

1. for fun/challenge
2. to replace a frame that has been damaged, doesn't fit, etc...
3. to get a better frame
4. to create a bike that is not possible to buy off the shelf, with cost as a lesser concern

How does a another powdercoated black no-name cromo "track" frame fit into this equation? I don't personally consider black a "fun" color. I know to some people it is, but there are plenty of other black frames out there that are probably of similar quality, features, and specs, so why this one? The same thing can be said regarding reason #2.

As far as getting a better frame goes, the $300 price point is not "better" for everyone. This frame is undoubtedly better than a gaspipe conversion frame, but does the rider of said frame have a 120 spaced rear hub, the correct bb? a 27.2 seatpost? Most conversion riders consider the true cost and feasibility of upgrading frames before they drop money on a track-style frame, and many of them (me included) decide that it's better/cheaper/easier just to buy a bike and customize from there.

Lastly, there's #4. Not many people who are looking to build up a Phil-hubbed blinged out masterpiece are going to look twice at this frame when a Nessuno/Bareknuckle will get them cool colors, track geometry, and name-brand tubing for a pretty reasonable price, and that's just one example. The other aspect of "not available in stores" is versatility. With a track-style frame there are fewer build possibilities. Unlike, say a Surly Cross Check (has horizontal dropouts, 132.5 spacing, lots of tire clearance, braze-ons for racks and fenders, and so on) there are fewer things you can do with a track-style frame. The Cross Check, while not perfect is unique at it's price point and I'm sure Surly sells a buttload of them. A track bike is a track bike. There just aren't that many different ways to build one up from a functional standpoint.

I'm not saying any of this to discourage this particular entrepreneur. They have a lot more guts than I do, but guts doesn't sell bikes.

when will the market start acknowledging reasonably-priced track frames smaller than 49cm? With so many junior leagues popping up all over, you'de think someone would be on it by now.

why such a limited frame size selection?

Yeah - I agree. Nothing I could ride in that selection.

QUOTEDoes the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?quote

UH THAT was taken out of the mouth of marquee moon. Not me

You know what I designed and had built 50 of my own brand of fixed gear/singlespeed road frames.
I sold them direct and cavern bought some, harriscyclery bought some.., SCOTT at fixedgearfever.com
ended up getting a whole bike from me to test. The guys at cycle solutions even got one.
I talked to some other shop in the states he turned his nose up at them..ha

At the time I did this.. there was barely anything at that price point available..

Now im looking to provide another one.. this time with a fork.. I can see the rules have changed.. Great I get to raise the bar..

Im working on getting something at a great price

But what price is that?

QUOTEDoes the world need another black no-name cromo "track" frame?quote

UH THAT was taken out of the mouth of marquee moon. Not me

You know what I designed and had built 50 of my own brand of fixed gear/singlespeed road frames.
I sold them direct and cavern bought some, harriscyclery bought some.., SCOTT at fixedgearfever.com
ended up getting a whole bike from me to test. The guys at cycle solutions even got one.
I talked to some other shop in the states he turned his nose up at them..ha

At the time I did this.. there was barely anything at that price point available..

Now im looking to provide another one.. this time with a fork.. I can see the rules have changed.. Great I get to raise the bar..

Im working on getting something at a great price

But what price is that?

y the way Kisha I have a frame smaller then 49cm.. but they didnt sell very well. Im happy to source and design what evr the heck the market shows a demand for.

too bad that fork doesn't have canti-bosses.

Seconded a million times.

There's no shortage of generic 'streettrack' (man, who the hell came up with that term?!) frames on the market today. I'd like to see more pseudocross frames out there designed for 1-cog use.

Honestly, I'd even prefer horizontal dropouts, but I don't care much about derailleur hangers.

That's a Maxway drawing.

Maxway, makers of Kogswell lugged, IRO, Surly,
Ritchey Breakaway, Rivendell Bleriot, many Jamis
frames, etc.

Yes, the main tubes are double butted, 9/6/9.

Maxway does nice TIG frames.

We sold that frame with round tubes, a brazed
fork and fully lugged for $320 as the Model F.

Hmm

Its good I been monitoring this forum before getting any frames made

Sounds like the majority of you would either like ..

!) simple frame or frame fork combo that you could buy at $100 to $150 US

2) A really cheap fixed gear bike..say $200 to $300 with front brake?

3) Some other type of frame that could have more versatility to it, other then fixed gear use.

A color other then black for the frame.. well apparently orange is the new black right?

The reason I choose black for my frames when I had them made was black goes with mostly everything.

Rainbow colors? The price goes up

Generally to do an order from asia for frames you are looking at 50 to 100 pieces sometimes per size.

That is why that guy has only 3 sizes..as well he may not even have any in stock yet and this might be more of a pre order. I remember when I was first planning out my frames.. all sorts of people were interested..but later none bought.

The reality is, the majority of any frames will be sold to someone looking for a weekend ride, or more of a
commuter bike. The core enthuiaist group may be unable to sustain any real sales. So you are left making something that takes "so uncool" brakes and fenders.

In any case Id liketo hear what ya'll think is the sweet spot for frame and fork price..or just frame
do u want a sub $200 frame?

Hey Kogswell dude

Been looking at your site. What brand are your kogswell hubs? They arent quando are they? or formula?

Now a cheap CHROME generic fixed gear frame would be wicked!

Right shiznaz

what kind of price point on the frame?

Steel probably not cheap..unless

Alloy well, polished frame. But alloy has a limited lifespan

No matter how good this frame is, a few glowing reviews on this forum and FGG can't take the place of a marketing department. How many would-be noobs post here asking for opinions on the relative merits of Langsters, Pistas, Rush Hours, etc... ? These companies have the money and muscle to get these bikes in shops, advertise them, get them reviewed, etc...

they must have a marketing dept. whoever came up with that "ballsy" slogan is a marketing genius. someone ring up sky yaeger and tell her she's been owned.

Seconded a million times.

There's no shortage of generic 'streettrack' (man, who the hell came up with that term?!) frames on the market today. I'd like to see more pseudocross frames out there designed for 1-cog use.

Honestly, I'd even prefer horizontal dropouts, but I don't care much about derailleur hangers.

Yep.

Horizontal drops are more fender-friendly. Might as well throw a derailleur hanger on there while you're at it. Oh, but then if I only run one gear on it I have a conversion, and everyone knows that's not cool. Plus they could be sold to people who *gasp* want to run gears. Who wants their money? :eek: :rolleyes: