City of Cyclists

[HereNT]

Wow - just watched this 20 min about biking in Copenhagen, and it looks truly amazing. I thought we had it good in Minneapolis, but we've got nothing on them:

http://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik/cyklernesby/uk/index.htm

Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...

Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...

[Dogbait]

I watched that video recently and wanted to post a thread about it but the forum was going through the server changeover. It is well worth the time spent downloading..... I am on a cable connection and it took 5 minutes to download the 85mb file. I was impressed with the fact that 90% of the population owns a bike and over 30% use a bike to commute to work. The producers of the video point out that it took 30 years of continuing effort by the elected officials to get where they are today and goals have been set even higher for the future. Our municipal officials in this country could learn a lot from this film and local advocacy groups would be well advised to make sure that bicycle coordinators within government are shown how well it works in Copenhagen.

The video was reviewed on BikePortland.org (http://bikeportland.org/2006/04/05/copenhagen-video-shows-portlands-dream/) on April fifth. There are also two download links on the BikePortland blog.

Dogbait

[randya]

...it took 30 years of continuing effort by the elected officials to get where they are today...
And the investment of ~25% of their transportation budget. In the US, you're considered lucky if 1% of your local or state transportation budget goes towards bicycling.

[Dogbait]

And the investment of ~25% of their transportation budget. In the US, you're considered lucky if 1% of your local or state transportation budget goes towards bicycling.

Roughly the equivalent of the percentage of those commuting by bike for both. If the percentage of commuters rose to >30% in the US, would they not have the political power and will to increase their share of the transportation budget? Chicken/Egg? As the number of bike commuters has increased in Stumptown over the past 30 years, so has the governments investment in cycling facilities.

Dogbait

[markhr]

Wow - just watched this 20 min about biking in Copenhagen, and it looks truly amazing. I thought we had it good in Minneapolis, but we've got nothing on them:

http://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik/cyklernesby/uk/index.htm

Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...

Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...


thanks - very interesting

[joejack951]

I didn't watch the video but just thought I'd share some insight gathered during a short trip to Sweden and Germany at the beginning of this year. At our facility in Eskilstuna, Sweden, I was impressed at how many bicycle commuters were since I'm the only one at a much larger facility in PA. I got talking with a girl who commuted by bike and learned that those who commuted by bike only rode a few kilometers and she was impressed that I ride over 20kms round trip every day. Her opinion was that if those who biked had that long of a commute, they would not be biking.

Basically, the fact that our cities tend to be much larger and the fact that many people don't live in the same town as where they work (compared with the opposite impression that I got from the Europeans) means that we have less bicycle commuters. As long as people in the US don't consider a 30 minute drive to work excessive, not many are going to start biking to work. Bike facilities are not going to change that. I'd say about half of the cyclists I saw in Sweden were not even using the provided side paths (basically sidewalks but smoother and a little wider but shared with pedestrians).

[HereNT]

If you'd watch the video, you'd see how they had all sorts of consessions for the bikers, not just facilities. The traffic lights are set to let the bikers go first, bike lanes have a curb on both sides keeping them from cars and peds...

Basically they've set up the entire infrastructure for bikes as the main form of transportation. I was impressed...

[EnigManiac]

Having just watched the video, I am very impressed. I was aware Copenhagen was a very bicycle-friendly city, but it was educational to see just how much importance it is given by local politicians and how naturally integrated cycling is among the citizens.

Some interesting observations I made, aside from the extensive infrastructure and facilities provided, was that most of the commuters did not wear helmets, but did use their hand-signals, seemingly for the benefit of their fellow-cyclists as opposed to motorists, congestion of cyclists on certain routes. There also was a distinct lack of honking or aggressive driving by motorists---wouldn't THAT be nice---and a remarkable carelessness about locking bicycles. That was indeed a surprise. We, in Toronto, have a bike sharing program, but I particularly liked Copenhagen's coin-operated (just like shopping carts) system.

I have forwarded the video and web-page to my city councillor who also happens to be the Chairman of the Toronto Bicycle Committee and sent it to the Mayor as well.

[HereNT]

I have forwarded the video and web-page to my city councillor who also happens to be the Chairman of the Toronto Bicycle Committee and sent it to the Mayor as well.

I didn't even think of doing that, but it's probably a good idea. The city officials did seem to have some really detailed plans of what they wanted. You certainly don't see that kind of stuff much even here in Minneapolis, and we have a pretty strong infrastructure.

As far as the helmets, it seemed like at least the faster riders had them. It was mainly the people on the old school cruisers that didn't...

[randya]

Roughly the equivalent of the percentage of those commuting by bike for both. If the percentage of commuters rose to >30% in the US, would they not have the political power and will to increase their share of the transportation budget? Chicken/Egg? As the number of bike commuters has increased in Stumptown over the past 30 years, so has the governments investment in cycling facilities.

Dogbait
The investment leads to the riders, not the other way around.

[randya]

I didn't watch the video but just thought I'd share some insight gathered during a short trip to Sweden and Germany at the beginning of this year. At our facility in Eskilstuna, Sweden, I was impressed at how many bicycle commuters were since I'm the only one at a much larger facility in PA. I got talking with a girl who commuted by bike and learned that those who commuted by bike only rode a few kilometers and she was impressed that I ride over 20kms round trip every day. Her opinion was that if those who biked had that long of a commute, they would not be biking.

Basically, the fact that our cities tend to be much larger and the fact that many people don't live in the same town as where they work (compared with the opposite impression that I got from the Europeans) means that we have less bicycle commuters. As long as people in the US don't consider a 30 minute drive to work excessive, not many are going to start biking to work. Bike facilities are not going to change that. I'd say about half of the cyclists I saw in Sweden were not even using the provided side paths (basically sidewalks but smoother and a little wider but shared with pedestrians).
Hypothetically, think about how long you want to spend on your commute. 30 Minutes? That's either roughly 15 miles +/- by car or 7 miles +/- by bike. I agree the American suburbs are not conducive to bicycle commuting, and that's why I would never live in the American suburbs. I've got a 10 minute / 3 mile commute by bicycle to my office. I intentionally chose to live in an inner-city location in order for this to be so. I would never live 30 minutes from my job by either car or bike. Some people in metropolitan NYC commute 3 hours each way. That's just crazy!

[sbhikes]

The pdf is interesting too:
http://www.vejpark.kk.dk/publikationer/pdf/413_cykelpolitik_uk.pdf

I especially like the graph and the paragraph that says when more people cycle, cycling becomes safer overall. So basically, whatever you can do to make more people want to ride bikes will make bike riding safer.

The whole site is much more positive and forward thinking than simply eeking out an existence on substandard roads with alpha-dog steely-eyed stares and defiant lane sharing tactics.

[joejack951]

Hypothetically, think about how long you want to spend on your commute. 30 Minutes? That's either roughly 15 miles +/- by car or 7 miles +/- by bike. I agree the American suburbs are not conducive to bicycle commuting, and that's why I would never live in the American suburbs. I've got a 10 minute / 3 mile commute by bicycle to my office. I intentionally chose to live in an inner-city location in order for this to be so. I would never live 30 minutes from my job by either car or bike. Some people in metropolitan NYC commute 3 hours each way. That's just crazy!

3 hours is crazy. I once drove 50 miles each way to my job for a very short period. I swore to never do that again regardless of the situation. Since then, my commute has gone from 50 to 25 to 14 to less than 7. I find the ~7 mile commute perfect as it assures me an hour of exercise 5 days a week. Of course, if it was less I'd just ride more for pleasure but when the weather's really crappy, it's nice having the exercise forced on me, in a strange way. I only dislike the length during snow storms but those are relatively rare here.

[John E]

Hypothetically, think about how long you want to spend on your commute. 30 Minutes? That's either roughly 15 miles +/- by car or 7 miles +/- by bike. I agree the American suburbs are not conducive to bicycle commuting, and that's why I would never live in the American suburbs. I've got a 10 minute / 3 mile commute by bicycle to my office. I intentionally chose to live in an inner-city location in order for this to be so. I would never live 30 minutes from my job by either car or bike. Some people in metropolitan NYC commute 3 hours each way. That's just crazy!

I currently DO live 30 minutes / 7 miles by bike from my job. That's an hour a day of much-needed aerobic exercise, so where is the problem? My previous office was about twice that far away, but I commuted on San Diego Northern Railroad's superb Coast Express Rail (Coaster) commuter rail line, with a bicycling or jogging connection at each end. It is not realistic to move house every time one changes jobs or moves office. I choose to live in Encinitas, a wonderful small city, most of which essentially is an American suburb. It is also highly conducive to bicycling, jogging, and walking, for exercise and for transportation.

[sbhikes]

Boy I must be really super slow. My 8.5 mile commute (each way) gives me about 1.75 hours of exercise each day.

[chicbicyclist]

Grrr, watching that made me VERY jealous. I emailed my city district representative and non-profit organization responsible for the current waves of gentrification around here the video in hopes that they *might* get inspired to do something like that here.

[o-dog]

wow... I am impressed... and alternately pissed off about how sh***y things are for cyclists here in America in comparison.

I want to visit there sometime soon.

[oilfreeandhappy]

I wonder what happens on an extremely cold, snowy, or icy day? Is the mass transit all of a sudden, inundated with cyclists? Do a lot of people just skip going in to work (I can handle this)? This country is geographically pretty far north.

[nova]

Wow - just watched this 20 min about biking in Copenhagen, and it looks truly amazing. I thought we had it good in Minneapolis, but we've got nothing on them:

http://www.vejpark.kk.dk/byenstrafik/cyklernesby/uk/index.htm

Kind of a big download, but totally worth it. Makes me wish I could move to Europe...

Sorry if it's been posted before - I tried a half-hearted search, but came up with way too many hits...


Is this a video showing eruopes bike road system? Ive seen pics but never the vid and at moment dont want to download got other stuff downloading. Its like places there were made eclusivly for bikes even where cars share the road.

[EnigManiac]

The videostated that 70% of cyclists continue to commute by bicycle through the winter, but I imagine on particularly stormy days, some would drive and others would take transit.

On an unrelated note, we must consider one of the fundamental differences between Copenhagen and most American cities (at least the ones I have visited) and that is that residents live relatively close to their places of employment and residential and commercial properties are intermixed. In every American city I have visited (LA, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Cleveland, New Orleans and Atlanta) the business area is deserted after 5pm and those areas were surrounded by often depressed commercial avenues and low-income urban neighbourhoods. The close-proximity Copenhagen and most other European cities as well as others (such as Vancouver) enjoy naturally fosters a pro-bicycling element. Here, in Toronto, we are much the same way. While industrial areas tend to be mostly in the suburbs where cyclig is less-popular, there are vibrant residential communities within walking distance of the business core, extensive condominium developments interspersed with or mere minutes away from the central business corridors and other office buildings are situated in defined residential neighbourhoods. That is why Toronto has almost as many cyclists as Copenhagen has. According to Now Magazine in 2004, there are an estimated 100,000 seasonal bicycle commuters in Toronto and 10,000 year-round. I would dispute those numbers, however, after comparing the number of cyclists seen in the video and the double-decker or sprawling 2,000-place parking facilities Copenhagen needs to accomodate its' advertised 90,000 cyclists. While UofT, in contrast, has a tremendous number of bike locking ring-posts, I doubt there are 2,000 spots throughout the complex like there were in the video. Still, I would hope our bicycling Mayor would make a greater effort to include some of the concepts Copenhagen has adopted and earn the bicycling vote in the upcoming election.

[cooker]

There's an amateur video of a commute in Amsterdam in this (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=166311&highlight=amsterdam) thread. If you get past the 'auteur's' bad cycling habits, you can really appreciate the cycling friendly nature of that city too.

[cooker]

This country [Denmark] is geographically pretty far north.
It has a very mild climate for that latitude, partly due to you. Every time you have a shower you send a little warm water there.

[cooker]

Is this a video showing eruopes bike road system? Ive seen pics but never the vid and at moment dont want to download got other stuff downloading. Its like places there were made eclusivly for bikes even where cars share the road.
Yeah...they have a wide bike path next to the road with a curb on both sides to separate it from sidewalks and roads, and a separate traffic signal for bikes. They also have an additional set of green bikeways away from the road, I guess through parks etc. I saw the same sort of setup in Hamburg, and have posted in a message just above this, a link to a video by an Amsterdam cyclist. From that, I would say Copenhagen's facilities look better than Amsterdam's...in some places the Amsterdam bike lanes were very narrow and outside the parking lane, with a risk of "dooring". Still they're both fabulous.

[EnigManiac]

see my thread 'Velo-city Vision' regarding a fanciful, but perhaps plausible plan for Toronto.

[Artkansas]

Watch out NY, SF and Boston, they claim that Copenhagen bicycle messengers are the fastest in the world!!!

[Brad M]

Bike lanes? They're all going to DIE!!

[TrevorInSoCal]

I wonder what happens on an extremely cold, snowy, or icy day? Is the mass transit all of a sudden, inundated with cyclists? Do a lot of people just skip going in to work (I can handle this)? This country is geographically pretty far north.

If a recent trip to Austria and Germany is any indication (Went to Innsbruck to snowboard in Feb. and spent a day in Munich before flying back home..), they ride year round.

Innsbruck wasn't *that* cold while we were there (probably around freezing in the early morning and evening hours, and mid 30s the rest of the day), but we saw plenty of cyclists during all hours of the day. The coldest day there was a day spent sightseeing in Salzburg (well below freezing all day)). Saw plenty of cyclists there as well. Munich was probably slightly above freezing while we were there. Lots of cyclists there as well. It started snowing pretty heavily the evening of our day spent in Munich. Didn't seem to slow down the cyclists. We still saw plenty tooling around.

We arrived in Munich in the afternoon and after checking into our hotel and starting to plan our day in the city, I tried to convince my buds that we should rent bikes the next day and wander the city on them. I was the only one that was into that idea, and didn't want to fly solo, so I just stuck with them the next day and we stayed within walking distance of the Hotel...

-Trevor

[scarry]

30 min is just enough riding for my in the morning to get my workout. I live 5 min on bike from work, but ride in a big loop for 30 - 40 min just to get a decent workout.

10 min is not enough to get the blood flowing.

Hypothetically, think about how long you want to spend on your commute. 30 Minutes? That's either roughly 15 miles +/- by car or 7 miles +/- by bike. I agree the American suburbs are not conducive to bicycle commuting, and that's why I would never live in the American suburbs. I've got a 10 minute / 3 mile commute by bicycle to my office. I intentionally chose to live in an inner-city location in order for this to be so. I would never live 30 minutes from my job by either car or bike. Some people in metropolitan NYC commute 3 hours each way. That's just crazy!

[jamesdenver]

Colonia del Sacramento Uruguay has a high bike to car ratio. Although cobblestone streets can do a number on your hands.

Worst city for bikes overseas? My guess is Brasilia, (capitol of Brazil). Kind of like an Epcot center layout which didn't look at life past 1972
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasilia