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And I'm feeling pretty bad about it. On a 35-mile ride by myself and there is a pack of three dogs a certain point who always chase. Today this one dog came on hardcore while his buddies chased to more or less chase. His teeth were clinched like he was ready to bite and he was inches from the front wheel/right leg. Me or him, crash or no crash. So I clipped out, tried to scare him away by yelling and put my foot out. Ended up bopping him in the face causing him to stop, he let out a whimper and then a little kid came running after him. Kept on going, but was this excessive? Anyone have something like this happen? Will PETA be knocking down my door in the morning?
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excessive, uncalled for, and inhumane.
just ride faster, man.
and if that fails, you know the stupid mongrel is just trying to intimidate you off of his territory.
but don't feel bad. just don't do it again.
No, not excessive. The dog was chasing you because it felt threatened. At the same time the owner was not responsible enough to keep the dog contained & probably knows his dog will give chase, all the more reason to keep it contained. The owner deserves to be kicked more then the dog does. There are no such thing as bad dogs, just bad dog owners.
A dog like that comes near me, I don't kick but it does get a facefull of pepper spray. Quite effective. The only time I do not use the spray is when the dog is only running toward or after me with out being aggressive. Then I know it only wants to play or wants attention. Depending on my mood I have stopped I gave the dog attention & of course got the dog off of the street so it doesn't get hit by a car. If a dog is being aggressive & wants to attack the last thing I worry about is if it is hit by a car.
excessive, uncalled for, and inhumane.
just ride faster, man.
and if that fails, you know the stupid mongrel is just trying to intimidate you off of his territory.
but don't feel bad. just don't do it again.
You're probably right, but this sucker was about to take me down and I responded without thinking. Gonna drop a few gears next time and hammer on.
excessive, uncalled for, and inhumane.
just ride faster, man.
and if that fails, you know the stupid mongrel is just trying to intimidate you off of his territory.
but don't feel bad. just don't do it again.
I thought this was a joke until I realized you were serious. I would've kicked the dog in the face too if it looked like it was going to bite me.
2mtr you have got to be kidding, just search for how many people on these forums have been bought down by dogs or bitten, Saluki IMO it was justified and in the same situation I would do the same again.
I am a dog person, I know it is usually the owners fault but that doesn't mean if you are in a bad situation you shouldn't take steps to protect yourself and outriding a dog isn't always an option.
You used exactly the amount of force needed to stop the animal. Hopefully, this was a painful but not permanently damaging lesson for both dog and owner.
I carry Halt. I also make sure it's visible. I want dog owners to know that there are consequences if they let Fido chase me. Yes, I could usually out run the dog, but high speeds on an MUP are not always safe, and sometimes I just don't feel like sprinting.
Kick the mutt to the curb. You did him a big favor.
When I was young I had a neighborhood dog constantly chasing me when I was riding my dirt bike thru' the 'hood to get to the trails. I could always accelerate away from danger. On day I had enough of the shenanigans and slowed to let him catch me instead of racing away. As the dog came up to my right side, I helped his head find its way under my back wheel with my foot then roosted off the back of his neck. The dog ran away with its tail between its legs and from thence forth stayed on the porch as I'd ride by.
Just gotta show them who's boss.
Unfortunately, sometimes you have to do that. If you really feel bad about it, drive on over and confront the owner. It's not the dogs fault, it never is. It's the pet owners responsibility, by law, to keep the dog out of the road, and away from moving vehicles. If they can't control their pet, then they have no business having one.
I've confronted people several times on this subject. Usually it's just someone who is irresponsible and doesn't realize, they just wanted a dog for a pet. Once you lay down the law with them, they'll usually make an attempt to control the dog.
Now that's alpha-dogging!
pooch comes after ol' brunop with teeth bared ready to bite and that fcukin' cur will be lucky if all he gets is a kick in the face. harumphhh!!!:)
Probably not excessive, but you feel bad about, don't you?, otherwise you wouldn't have posted.
Many years ago I was being chased uphill by a dog whose intentions I didn't know, so I pepper sprayed him. He stopped, got disoriented and got hit by a car.
The howling and yelping of the injured dog just killed me, knowing it was my fault he got hit.
Then I learned that a well aimed spray of water from a water bottle stops any dog. I can pick them off as far as 20 feet away. The water gets in their eyes for a second, they put the brakes on, and you're gone. Never had this fail. Never had a dog resume the chase after being sprayed once.
His teeth were clinched like he was ready to bite and he was inches from the front wheel/right leg. Me or him, crash or no crash. So I clipped out, tried to scare him away by yelling and put my foot out. Ended up bopping him in the face causing him to stop, he let out a whimper and then a little kid came running after him. Kept on going, but was this excessive?
I take it you don't go out looking for animals to kick, so I'd say if he chases you again, feel free to "bop" him on the nose as often as it takes. He wasn't hurt and he has no "pride" to damage. It's just a play for dominance to him, but for you, it could be avoiding a trip to the hospital. Just be sure you don't crash trying to kick the dog, it might be better to outrun him (for your sake.)
Don't feel bad, the dog doesn't.
And by the way, don't forget to report unleashed dogs to animal control. They begin to exhibit pack behavior when loose.
Ended up bopping him in the face causing him to stop, he let out a whimper and then a little kid came running after him. Kept on going, but was this excessive?
If you didn't kill the dog, gut him and eat him for supper (try some Korean recipes), I can't see how it can be called excessive. ;)
excessive, uncalled for, and inhumane.
just ride faster, man.
You can't outride a dog. The dog didn't get hurt because you "kicked" it. He got hurt because he got to close to a dangerous moving vehicle. This was an excellent outcome...taught the dog and his owner a lesson.
Not excessive, you do what you have to do.
Agreed...and can understand that you might feel bad about it afterwards.
I understand that you might feel badly because you hit a dog that was just doing what dogs do, but I think you did nothing excessive and nothing out of place. Even if that dog wound up having to take a trip to the vet (which, incidentally, I think is unlikely), what would have happened if he chose to chase a car instead of a cyclist? As someone else said, valuable lesson for both dog and owner.
For those who say, just outrun it, that's sometimes not possible. For starters, if you don't notice the dog fast enough to keep him behind you, you may not be able to outrun him. Moreover, there are some fast dogs out there. I have a golden retriever who has some great acceleration and can really move when he gets going. I don't know how he'd react to a cyclist because he's never gotten the chance to demonstrate it and never will. A responsible dog owner keeps his dog fenced in for the safety of others and for the dog himself.
Unless the dog was whining loudly and continuously after the kick, you didn't do any actual harm. I don't advocate violence against animals, and it may well make the dog's aggressive problems worse in the long term, but in the short term you were faced with a self-defence situation, and did the best you could. Don't feel guilty, but do take proactive steps to stop this.
We hear about dog attacks all the time, and more often than not the dog is blamed. Ontario now has a ban on all pit bulls because of attacks. As a dog owner I can tell you that 100% of the responsibility is the owner's - always and all the time. Yes, all dog species have some traits they have been bred for, but it is the owner's job to know that, restrain the dog, and train the dog. Chasing after bikes is a self-rewarding behaviour: every time the dog chases a bike, he has "chased away" a threat from his territory. This yells out two problems to me: the dog feels threatened by strangers and thinks his territory needs to be defended, and secondly the dog doesn't trust his owner to be alpha-male and take care of intruders. That's probably a very stressed out dog.
Check into local by-laws, and report the owners if they are breaking any animal control bylaws (e.g. keeping a dog fenced in). You will be doing the dog a favour. You should also consider speaking to the owners and suggest they hire a professional trainer. An aggressive dog isn't something that should be shrugged off, its a serious problem.
Unfortunately, in my experience, people take advice about dogs about as well as they take advise about kids. Kids, however, are not likely to bite your ankle as you cycle down the streets.
if a dog chases you on a regular training ride that you do or your regular commuting route you've got to find a way to deal with it other than outrunning it every time. The dog is being reinforced by that behavior to see you (and other cyclists) as prey. And trying to outrun a dog can be dangerous. I once went into a major sprint to outrun a dog that was bounding down a hill, he shot right in front of me and I nailed him mid-body and slid on my hip bone for 30' of pavement. He ran off yelping and I was in pain for weeks.
and if a dog is super aggressive a kick in the face is a justifiable defense.
My favorite deterrants are:
water bottle sprayed in face
call them as if you are their owner. So as they're chasing I say things like, "C'mon, good dog! Atta boy! What a goooood dog!" The more high pitched baby talk the better. If it doesn't work on the dog anyone within earshot will die laughing.
Go really slow (or stop) and toss them bits of hot dogs (if I have to go by them every day)- eventually they come out wagging their tails.
A well timed, loud, authoritative, "NO!!" works well on otherwise well behaved dogs that just got stimulated by the passing cyclist.
find their owners and kick them in the face, spray them with pepper spray, spray water at them, jolt them with a cattle prod and tell them to tie their stupid dog up or control it's behavior.
and yes, I too, have kicked dogs, whacked them in the nose with my hand or fist, used pepper sprays, air horns, bike pumps, seen them waiting and gotten a fistful of sand by the side of the road and thrown that in their face but a good spray of water works as good as anything and if none of these things work then ride like you're being chased by the devil and don't look back.
As a dog owner I can tell you that 100% of the responsibility is the owner's - always and all the time.
We took our new "puppy" to potty-training class. They told us that if the dog goes potty in the house, it's our fault, not the dog's.
By contrast, the neighbor has a very large, aggressive dog. He told my daughter, "Don't walk your dog near my house, you're making my dog mad." He's not taking responsibility for his own dog, but he's expecting us to take responsibility for his dog.
Psh.
Sometimes a squirt of water in the face of an aggressive dog is enough to startle them into giving up the fight.
Unfortunately, sometimes you have to do that. If you really feel bad about it, drive on over and confront the owner. It's not the dogs fault, it never is. It's the pet owners responsibility, by law, to keep the dog out of the road, and away from moving vehicles. If they can't control their pet, then they have no business having one.
I've confronted people several times on this subject. Usually it's just someone who is irresponsible and doesn't realize, they just wanted a dog for a pet. Once you lay down the law with them, they'll usually make an attempt to control the dog.
Worked for me. A man laughed at me for complaining about his two toy poddles chasing me. I asked if his kids would be upset if a car ran them over. Never saw them in the street again.
I'm going to ask this question EVERY time these threads start.
Why are roadies such pansies when it come to dogs?
I'm going to ask this question EVERY time these threads start.
Why are roadies such pansies when it come to dogs?
That will make you a troll. The OP was hardly a pansy...he (inadvertently) 'pwned' that dog.
Go really slow (or stop) and toss them bits of hot dogs (if I have to go by them every day)- eventually they come out wagging their tails.
that's an awful idea - when I was a kid, our original mailman used to leave a dog biscuit along with our mail (we had a through-the-door mail slot). mailman changed, new guy didn't have dog biscuits, and my dog wanted to kill him until the day he died. he was never mean or agressive to anybody else, but that mailman must have maced him a half dozen times - and he deserved it, too.
how do you think the dog will feel about other cyclists who don't bring them treats?
I'm going to ask this question EVERY time these threads start.
Why are roadies such pansies when it come to dogs?
I'd love to see your reaction on one back country stretch near a pig farm with 5 vicious dogs and a big old bumpy up hill that we used to train on just for the fun of watching macho guys who asked such questions as they got their answer.
Saluki, you feel bad? Check out this monster thread from last year... Pit Bull Thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=113660&highlight=pit+bull) Almost 500 replies.
If you didn't permanently hurt that dog, chalk it up and move on. You did what you had to do with a lightning fast decision. If you feel you need to do something different next time, the ideas above should help. Don't feel bad because someone is not keeping their dog under control. Feel bad for that dog because its owner is a bum. Next time it might not be a foot.... it might be the wheel of a big truck or something, which would be no good. Poor dog.
Keep riding.
And I'm feeling pretty bad about it. On a 35-mile ride by myself and there is a pack of three dogs a certain point who always chase. Today this one dog came on hardcore while his buddies chased to more or less chase. His teeth were clinched like he was ready to bite and he was inches from the front wheel/right leg. Me or him, crash or no crash. So I clipped out, tried to scare him away by yelling and put my foot out. Ended up bopping him in the face causing him to stop, he let out a whimper and then a little kid came running after him. Kept on going, but was this excessive? Anyone have something like this happen? Will PETA be knocking down my door in the morning?
So ... did the dog attack made you brake stride/cadence?
I have always first tried spraying the dog with water from my water bottle. Has worked. Some dogs are really aggressive and you very well could have needed rabies shots. In the end, did what you had to do.
I do try to report unsecured dogs, when I see them potentially threatening cyclists. Dog are required to be contained within their property.
Why are roadies such pansies when it come to dogs?
I can show you the 'what the eff happened to you there' crater scar on my right calf courtesy of a spitz that attached me on a commute. My son-in-law was up to visit over the weekend sporting 12 stitches that he currently has in his calf courtesy of a pit bull along his neighborhood loop ride. Dog attacks happen to some 5 million plus Americans each year, including riders.
As a dog owner I can tell you that 100% of the responsibility is the owner's - always and all the time.
We took our new "puppy" to potty-training class. They told us that if the dog goes potty in the house, it's our fault, not the dog's.
By contrast, the neighbor has a very large, aggressive dog. He told my daughter, "Don't walk your dog near my house, you're making my dog mad." He's not taking responsibility for his own dog, but he's expecting us to take responsibility for his dog.
The dog owner is responsible. Some dogs are nice, but others aren't because they've been abused/neglected, trained improperly, or have emotional issues. Regardless of the case, it is the owner's responsibility to manage encounters. Just throwing the dog behind a fence doesn't count. If they know the dog will try to get through the fence, they need a one that the dog won't tear up, climb, or tunnel under. <soapbox>It amazes me how many morons think they've done all they need to when they keep a large, aggressive dog behind a rotting wooden fence that can be chewed through in seconds.</soapbox>
To the OP, I doubt you hurt the dog, and I don't think excessive force was used given the circumstances.
In most cases, improper dog management is a result of owners who don't understand what owning a dog means, so talking to the owner can be effective. Reporting people is a good step to take if they won't listen. I've even tried (and sometimes succeeded) in catching dogs that come after me.
If you want to really give someone an experience to remember, calmly walk up with their dog and even the slightest teeth or scratch marks on you. This practically induces a heart attack in some people. When you walk away with nothing more than a request to manage the dog better for its own protection, they'll think they've dodged a bullet and many will get wise.
BTW, my wife thinks I'm a moron for trying to catch strange dogs because it's a great way to get bitten, so I wouldn't necessarily advocate my method. However, it's useful to help people understand that it's in their best interest to manage dogs properly to avoid exposing themselves and their dogs to unnecessary risks.
The owners are certainly responsible for their dogs. But I am immediately responsible for (and quite protective of) my body when it is threatened by animals chasing me. I would have done exactly what the OP did.
It drives me crazy to see unrestrained pets out on the street. The owners may argue "Oh, he's so gentle, he wouldn't hurt a fly" but 1) Passers-by have no way of knowing whether an approaching dog is friendly, hostile, or just doesn't like the smell of your dog/cat on your clothes; and 2) "Friendly" dogs are still animals; sometimes they get overstimulated and wind up injuring people. Unless they are very obviously docile, I tend to be wary of them.
1st time kick the dog. 2nd time, kick it's owner!
Rode by the same dog today and was going to confront his owner if anything happened, but the dog didn't want anything to do with me.
Don't feel bad at all. I often stop in the middle of the road, roll up my bibs, and take a nice long wizz on the dog. They will leave you alone after they see the impressiveness that is your man piece.
Rode by the same dog today and was going to confront his owner if anything happened, but the dog didn't want anything to do with me.
Mission accomplished.
Good for you, it is about time someone connected their foot to the jowls of some mutt. Although I would rather connect my foot with the owners face! Doesn't anyone out there that owns dogs realize that there are leash laws. I see owners opening doors so their "Poopsie" can crap out the door and what do they do? Take off, thats what. Lazy ***** dog owners.
The owners are certainly responsible for their dogs. But I am immediately responsible for (and quite protective of) my body when it is threatened by animals chasing me. I would have done exactly what the OP did.
It drives me crazy to see unrestrained pets out on the street. The owners may argue "Oh, he's so gentle, he wouldn't hurt a fly" but 1) Passers-by have no way of knowing whether an approaching dog is friendly, hostile, or just doesn't like the smell of your dog/cat on your clothes; and 2) "Friendly" dogs are still animals; sometimes they get overstimulated and wind up injuring people. Unless they are very obviously docile, I tend to be wary of them.
I am in peoples houses all day long. Do you know how many old grannies tell me, "oh he won't bite" and as I am following her down the hall, her mutt is taking the back of my pants or socks and trying to make mince meat out of them. It makes me want to take all IRRESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS and shove them all in the grinder. (imo)
That will make you a troll. The OP was hardly a pansy...he (inadvertently) 'pwned' that dog.
roadies are pansies because they dont want their bikes getting scratched. mountain bikes on the other hand are MADE to stand up to the abuse you can dish out to them.
Don't feel bad at all. I often stop in the middle of the road, roll up my bibs, and take a nice long wizz on the dog. They will leave you alone after they see the impressiveness that is your man piece.
Be careful. My Beta dog would take one look and say.
Big Sausage, cool, dinnertime!
I doubt that dog will chase cyclists anymore.
Had a dog that was fond of chasing horses until she got kicked in the head. Didn't kill her, but she didn't chase horses anymore either.
If someone doesn't want their dog getting kicked in the face, either train it or fence it up. Simple.
-Marcus.
-on a fully loaded bike (tent, panniers, sleepbag, etc) i was chased by a dobermann pincher (sp) and right when he got to my foot, he experienced zefal aluminum air pump to the nose. direct hit. effective results.
-i have carried HALT, but never used it. have used water from water bottles w/varied effect.
-there was a rider in a club century years ago who was chased by a foo-foo "dog" (****t-Zu or something). he thought nothing of it until it's nose got caught in his front wheel = 'biker down'. he ended with a broken collar bone. -
"Do What You Need to Do" to keep yourself safe from unleashed dogs!
It never ceases to amaze me how many BF users value a strangers dogs life more than their own. If a dog is chasing you, thats a clear sign of aggression. A former coworker of mine was surprise charged by a large bull dog while practicing trials riding. He kicked the things face in and it almost certainly died. He never knew because he hauled ass out of there. He lost no sleep over it. A horrible leg injury from a dog bite could kill you, or if you were luckier it could end your cycling and easy walking days.
A family friend of mine was stealing motors from a junk yard in the 60's when a guard dog attacked him. He stuck a screwdriver in its eye killing it. It was him or the dog, and he chose him. Again, it never ceases to amaze me how few of you would make the same decision.
Heres a test for those of you with all kinds of faith in a water bottle squirt. Find somewhere localy that has vicious guard dogs that bark when you go by, like a car storage lot or something. Bang on the fence and get them to come bark at you. Spray water at them and see if they so much as flinch. I assure you 8 or 9 out of 10 won't.
A family friend of mine was stealing motors from a junk yard in the 60's when a guard dog attacked him. He stuck a screwdriver in its eye killing it. It was him or the dog, and he chose him. Again, it never ceases to amaze me how few of you would make the same decision.
Yes, it is shocking how few of us are thieves.
Heres a test for those of you with all kinds of faith in a water bottle squirt. Find somewhere localy that has vicious guard dogs that bark when you go by, like a car storage lot or something. Bang on the fence and get them to come bark at you. Spray water at them and see if they so much as flinch. I assure you 8 or 9 out of 10 won't.
Somehow I get the feeling that you're the type that's invites trouble:rolleyes:
And I'm feeling pretty bad about it. On a 35-mile ride by myself and there is a pack of three dogs a certain point who always chase. Today this one dog came on hardcore while his buddies chased to more or less chase. His teeth were clinched like he was ready to bite and he was inches from the front wheel/right leg. Me or him, crash or no crash. So I clipped out, tried to scare him away by yelling and put my foot out. Ended up bopping him in the face causing him to stop, he let out a whimper and then a little kid came running after him. Kept on going, but was this excessive? Anyone have something like this happen? Will PETA be knocking down my door in the morning?
Don't feel bad, you did exactly the right thing in defending yourself.
The alternative would have been to allow the dog to bite you so you could sue the socks off the owner, and possibly have the dog put down.
excessive, uncalled for, and inhumane.
just ride faster, man.
and if that fails, you know the stupid mongrel is just trying to intimidate you off of his territory.
but don't feel bad. just don't do it again.
Why not do it again? Where I came from and where I live now, under any circumstances should a dog harm or intimidate people, never, ever.
About dog behaviour, there are some remains in a dog's behaviour from their ancestors wolfs, and one of them is to chasse larger prey, even out of their territory.
Lets say the dog bites, who's falt? The rider that was just passing through, or the dogs' owner? The owner's, of course.
I've kicked them before and, most likely, will kick them again. I always feel bad but I'd feel worse tangled up in a ditch with my bike with a dog clamped to my calf. That foot to the head can save you a lot of pain and grief... sorry for the dog... stupid owners.
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