Tandem Cycling - Santana "Team" Tandems

My girlfriend and I are very seriously considering purchasing a new tandem. I am an experienced road cyclist (primary ride is my Trek 5200). She is new to cycling as a "sport" (she's done casual riding on clunkers), but is at the same fitness level I am (her primary activity is distance running).

We tried a couple of tandems this past weekend at a shop that specializes in tandem/recumbants. Specifically, we tried a Co Motion Speedster and a Santana Team AL (2005 model I believe). We both strongly favored the Santana. To me, it felt quicker and more nimble, but also more stable (maybe that seems like a paradox?). We didn't have time, however, to ride the Team Scandium, which I understand to be the new version of the Team AL, with a somewhat differently constructed frame and the new "perfect 10" STI system from Shimano.

My questions are the following:

1) I used to ride aluminum frame Cannondales, which while very responsive, became too hard on my body. I love my Trek carbon. Although the Santana felt very nice on the test ride, and not at all jarring, I'm wondering if anyone with more experience with the Santana AL frames can comment on their comfort over the "long haul."

2) Is a new Team Scandium worth the nearly $1000 price difference over the older Team AL? How much of an upgrade are we talking here?

3) Am I crazy to be contemplating dropping 6-7 grand on a first time tandem? My GF, who is generally the Voice of Reason in our relationship, is actually very excited about it and not at all hesitant. I guess I'm just worried that she might change her mind down the road, so to speak. I suppose this is probably not a truly answerable question, more along the lines of a relatively anonymous unburdening of my worries.

I'd also be interested in any general impressions/thoughts on the Santana Team bikes.

I'd be more concerned about the relationship. Not that you give any indication other than a good one and I assume it is but if for any reason you break up what ever tandem you buy towards the expensive end will seem like a silly investment. Not that this helps but maybe you can either get a less expensive one used or see if there is a way to rent one on a weekly or monthly basis to get your feet wet.

I agree with Gerald. You are taking alot of risk for either small performance gain or huge financial loss. Take your time on a tandem purchase, it is very much like when you first start getting interested in single bikes. It takes time to learn what you like, don't like and become conversant on the subject. If it were my decision, I would look at getting a decent $1,500 or less used/new tandem. Much less exposure.

My then girlfriend and I almost bought a tandem a number of years ago (it may have been a Burley). We went over to my friends house to check out the bike. He and his wife had tried it but it did not work out for them. A few months later they were divorcing. My girlfriend and I broke up a year or two later. Looking back, I think the tandem would have complicated things between us. We did end up back together and are now married. 12 years gone and we just bought our first tandem and are loving it. No regrets about not doing it earlier. There is another thread just started today or so where the couple is recently divorced and he has the tandem and no stoker.

I did not like the ride of the Santana AL. Everyone said the larger frame and physics took the harshness out of aluminum. I rode some of the original Cannondales and Kleins, never liked AL and still don't, too harsh for my small frame. My wife even noticed the harshness of the AL switching from the steel. That left out any AL frames for us.

Of course I only offer this as my experience. My opinion is to save a little cash, get a bike that won't hurt as much if it does not work out. Unless of course you make stupid money, lol.

Don't worry about spending an absurd amount of money on something that you might not be be riding in a year of so. It could be worse; you could own a Hummer!

Just to clarify, aluminum doesn't have to be harsh. Our '05 C'Dale is very compliant, much more than our
'05 CF seat stay/fork Trek 2100 road bikes, yet it is very responsive--just right for our taste. Let me refer you to this site which explains that geometry can play a much more significant role than materials alone: http://www2.sjsu.edu/orgs/asmtms/artcle/articl.htm. However, I certainly do know what you mean about early C'Dales. I have an early '80s SR600 that beats the hell out of me, but our tandem is just right (IMO, of course). You can purchase a new C'Dale with Ultrega brifters, Ultrega RD & FD, wonderful Avid BB-7 disc brakes, and A-719/Hugi 40H wheels for about $2,500 which includes a life-time frame warranty, and (hopefully) the support of your LBS. It's one of the best deals out there for a mid-range tandem.

I agree with the above posters to first get your feet wet with a more moderate approach (new our used). If things don't work out, you'll only be out hundreds, not thousands of $$. Regardless, welcome to this addiction. Hope you like it as much as my stoker and I.

Only the two of you can decide if your relationship is strong enough to invest this kind of money. Here's how things went for us. My stoker and I were together for 10 years (8 married). We were ridding most of that time. We bought a one year old Trek T200 for our "test" tandem. Rode it two years and sold it for what we paid for it. It was our intention to buy a Santana Noventa when we headed to our favorite LBS. After discussions with the shop, who knew our riding habits very well, and Santana, we were talked into buying a TeamTi700. Over 20,000 miles later we have no regrets about spending the extra money.

OHB, I hear ya on the Al. I forgot that we also test rode a C'dale tandem, it did not feel as harsh as the Santana, but we did not like the handling near as much as the Santana. I wish we/I did like the Aluminum, it would make so many more tandems/singles available to us.

I do hope to be able to test ride more tandems in the future. I can see us going for something custom but that will likely be 4+ years away while my wife grows to learn what she likes and does not like.

Bikes and relationships are completely personal. There is no point in telling someone they are wrong in those areas, you can only offer opinions when asked :).

We tried a couple of tandems this past weekend at a shop that specializes in tandem/recumbants. Specifically, we tried a Co Motion Speedster and a Santana Team AL (2005 model I believe). We both strongly favored the Santana. To me, it felt quicker and more nimble, but also more stable (maybe that seems like a paradox?).

Just curious; which shop? Which tandem did you ride first? How far did you ride on each tandem? Did you go back and re-ride the first tandem again after riding the second?

FWIW: A Santana (or KHS, or Bilenky) will almost always 'feel' better to a new captain and tandem team than a Co-Motion. The steering geometry is not as aggressive on these other models which makes them feel less wobbly when you're just learning to ride as a team. Assuming you've both been properly fitted and been given some rudimentary instruction on how to increase your odds for success as a tandem team via communication and working together, every time you get back on a tandem you should find that you both will continue to come up the learning curve as a team and each successive ride will be less wobbly and unpredicatable. The point being, first impressions on tandems can be misleading when you're just learning how to ride a tandem. Always do yourselves a favor before plunking down the credit card by re-riding the first tandem you tried and any others that you rode early on to validate that your initial impressions were valid.



We didn't have time, however, to ride the Team Scandium, which I understand to be the new version of the Team AL, with a somewhat differently constructed frame and the new "perfect 10" STI system from Shimano.

You can read what Mr. Bill at Santana wrote to me last Fall regarding the new Scandium frames (as well as few other things) as a follow-up to phone call where we talked about Santana's new stuff for '06 at this link: http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1674373&postcount=1



Although the Santana felt very nice on the test ride, and not at all jarring, I'm wondering if anyone with more experience with the Santana AL frames can comment on their comfort over the "long haul."

Santana builds all of its tandems to be first and foremost, comfortable. Thus, of all the aluminum tandem frames on the market, Santana's are the most compliant YET, still stiffer than their steel or Ti models. In fact, it could be argued that a Co-Motion Speedster is about as stiff as a Santana Sovereign or Team AL. As for comfort over the long haul, your wheelset, tire selection, and psi decisions are what you use to fine tune "comfort". Going from a 28mm to a 32mm tire (or from a 25mm to 28mm) can dramatically change how any tandem "feels" and handles.


Is a new Team Scandium worth the nearly $1000 price difference over the older Team AL? How much of an upgrade are we talking here?

One way to look at it is $1.69 a gram for gross weight savings on the frame. As for the less tangible and quantifiable riding characteristics (never mind the added dent resistance), you'd have to ride one and make that call based on your own impressions. Scandium has been one of the "hot" alloys of late and if you're looking for the latest and greatest in Aluminum frame materials, Easton's Scandium is definitely on the A list for those who pay attention to such things. Similarly, Columbus Spirit-Niobium falls into that same category for those who put steel on a pedestal.


Am I crazy to be contemplating dropping 6-7 grand on a first time tandem? My GF, who is generally the Voice of Reason in our relationship, is actually very excited about it and not at all hesitant. I guess I'm just worried that she might change her mind down the road, so to speak. I suppose this is probably not a truly answerable question, more along the lines of a relatively anonymous unburdening of my worries.

You'll need to consult with your accountant and search your soul on this one mate. To some folks, dropping $7k on a "bike" is beyond the realm of rationale behavior... to other folks it's a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. Your girlfriend's enthusiasm sounds great... just keep it in your head that you're buying a tandem for yourself that she will be sharing with you. If she becomes a "pre-you" to a future partner and cycling is a pre-requisite for that future partner, you're already one step ahead of the game. Heck, you'd be surprised at how many tandem couples have "met by tandem". In fact, Santana's founder -- the aforementioned Bill McCready -- met his wife Jan cruising around looking for a stoker before the start of a cycling event: life's been but a dream for them ever since as it has for several other couples whom we know that were "joined by tandem".

That said, what others have suggested is what I have advocated since shortly after buying our first tandem many moons and two custom road tandems ago..., consider a second hand machine for your first tandem -- married or not: http://www.thetandemlink.com/usedhome.html#anchor948986


I'd also be interested in any general impressions/thoughts on the Santana Team bikes.

Like every tandem builder, Santana has its qwerks, its detractors, and its die-hard fans. However, all things considered, Santana makes a great product and provides the vast majority of its customers with outstanding support. I'd be lying if I suggested there weren't some unhappy campers -- some for good reasons and some for not-so-good reasons -- but so do all the other builders. Considering how many tandems Santana has produced over the years, I'd say the number of unhappy campers is statistically insignificant: most folks never regret buying one. In fact, we started out with a brand new Santana... and it was a great first tandem. As for the "Team" models, just keep in mind that if you strip off the paint and components, all of the Santana tandems share the same design philosophy and geometry. The "Team" designation was adopted back in the late 80's or early 90's (I forget) to differentiate their top of the line triple geared touring tandem -- the fillet-brazed steel Sovereign -- from the go-fast DuraAce equipped fillet-brazed steel model. Strip off the components and decals and both frames were the same. Today, Santana uses the "Team" designation on it's high-end models which, for the most part, come with all of the go-fast goodies "standard". Thus, a Team AL (now replaced by the Team Scandium) was a Sovereign with FSA carbon cranks, Shimano-Santana Sweet 16 wheelset, V-Max carbon fork, and Ultegra STI shifting (now 10 spd). The Reynolds Ouzo-pro carbon fork w/DuraAce caliper brakes front & rear or a rear disc are options. As a comparison, Co-Motion's Robusta is essentially a Roadster (Easton 7005 aluminum) with all of the Co-Motion spec. go-fast goodies that prices out about the same as the Team Scandium with the V-max fork.

Bottom Line: The decision is yours, but when in doubt test ride before you decide... the handling of the different brands are distinctive and beyond that you end up paying to get weight off the frame and lighter, sexier components.

P.S. Regardless of what you pay for your tandem, just keep in mind that you might still find yourselves getting blown away by teams on tandems that cost 1/2 of what a Team Scandium or a Co-Motion Robusta will set you back. You can't buy a faster tandem, you can only buy a tandem that will make you want to ride more often which could make you faster.

As to boyfriend/girlfriend committment: is she willing to pay for her 'half' of the tandem? Is wedded bliss planned?
Reality check:Tandem prices have entered the strato$phere . . . 7,000 does not get you the 'best/fastest/lightest' any more.
Other materials to consider: ti or carbon fiber.
However for a first tandem would not suggest getting the 'ultimate'; settle for something that fits, that you both like and can resell in a year or so when you two are more knowledgeable riding 'in tandem.'
Then you can get your dream machine.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Thanks for the helpful suggestions/information. Couple of things:

GF and I have been living together for a while, and are, actually, planning on getting engaged soon. Of course, that does not guarantee 50 years of subsequent cycling bliss, but of all the things I'm concerned about with respect to buying a tandem, the durability of our relationship is the least troubling.

Zonatandem -- It would be nice to split the cost of the bike 50/50, but our financial realities simply don't allow for that right now. She's working to finish her PhD in anthropology. I practice law. She'll chip in what she can, but it won't be nearly 50% of a 6-7 grand bike.

Tandemgeek - We test rode the tandems at a shop called Mt. Airy Cycles, which is about an hour from where we live in Maryland. We rode the Co-Motion first, for about 10-15 miles. We rode the Santana Team AL next, for about 5 miles. Unfortunately, we didn't have the time to re-ride the Co-Motion, but I plan on doing so when we go back next.

The Santana did feel more comfortable, probably for the reasons you articulated. But it also felt faster, more nimble, and more responsive -- as soon as we started pedalling I felt much more like I was on my single than was the case with the Co-Motion. Maybe the better wheelset had a lot to do with that? I'm very interested in trying one of the comparable Co-Motion tandems (Robusta and the other one whose name escapes me). Unfortunately, the shop we went to doesn't have either of those models in stock -- apparently they do more business in Santanas than Co-Motions.

I agree that the idea of starting with something less-expensive makes a lot of sense financially. My fear is that if I settle for a lower-performance bike, then I may find myself pining for my single rather than enjoying the tandem.

You might want to at least ride a Cannondale and Trek, they offer a lot for the money. We rode a Santana, before buying the Trek, and while we liked the Santana, it was a fair bit more expensive, with lesser components, and really didn't fit us or ride much different. So that made the decision much easier. We also looked at the Cannondale, and I liked the disk brake setup, but the Trek with the full Utrega was the smoothest of any of the bikes we tried. Now the Santana was a lot less then what you are looking at, but we've been very pleased with our Trek. Tandems seem to carry fairly decent resale values, so if you decide you want to upgrade, you can alwasy sell and recoup much of you investment, plus computers, racks, etc... can usually transfer to the new bike. I've seen '04 and '05 T2000s sell for a couple hundred more then we paid on ebay, and we bought ours new from a dealer.

John

I agree that the idea of starting with something less-expensive makes a lot of sense financially. My fear is that if I settle for a lower-performance bike, then I may find myself pining for my single rather than enjoying the tandem.

We've owned our tandem for almost a month now, and I have to agree with what's already been said about not dropping a load on the first one. When we decided on our barely used Burley Duet, I had no expectations of duplicating the riding experience of my single. Instead, I focused on finding a ride that fit us well, was comfortable to my wife, and wasn't overwhelming to her. She is a pretty strong rider in her own right, but moving over to a tandem is a transition that won't happen overnight, or with just a few rides.

My hope is that we will ride this bike into the ground, then trade up in a few years, but if that doesn't happen, at least my money's in the bank instead of in the garage.

Think about how you want to use this tandem and how long you want to own it in addition to all the other stuff.

My wife and I just got a Team Niobium. I was thinking about the Scandium, but was talked out of it by my LBS for several reasons. First, the thin walled Alu dents more easily than steel. Second, it is much harder to repair. Third, the ride is probably not as nice as the Niobium (though I did not ride any Alu models, so I can't say). I will say that the Niobium is extremely comfortable.

Also, I really like the components on this years' Team models. We got the Reynolds fork and the Dura Ace brakes as an upgrade. The 10 speeds with a 34t low gear is wonderful. We have not had to use our small ring yet. Also, the latest version of the Shimano wheels is just amazing. They are relatively light and very fast. The head mechanic at the LBS (a long time tandem rider) tested the bike with my wife while doing some adjustments and all he could talk about was how fast the wheels were.

I really have no regrets about the choice. I think the Niobium is a great choice, especially with the upgraded fork and brakes.

Good luck,
Ira

We test rode the tandems at a shop called Mt. Airy Cycles, which is about an hour from where we live in Maryland. We rode the Co-Motion first, for about 10-15 miles. We rode the Santana Team AL next, for about 5 miles. Unfortunately, we didn't have the time to re-ride the Co-Motion, but I plan on doing so when we go back next.

Although not necessarily intentional, there's sometimes a feeling that some dealers use Co-Motions to sell Santanas... (less assembly, higher margin). Again, both are great bikes but the Co-Motion is not the one to start off with for your first tandem test ride if you have access to a Santana, Trek, KHS, or Bilenky. And, just be aware that a Co-Motion fitted with a Wound-Up carbon fork will be even more "wobbly" feeling on the initial ride than one fitted with a steel fork. For those who take to their handling, Co-Motion's only come into their own once you get a few tandem miles under your belt and settle in as a team. Personally, I don't care what brand of tandem anyone buys so long as they find one that fits properly and makes both riders feel confident early on. The quicker you settle-in, the more likely you'll continue to ride.


The Santana did feel more comfortable, probably for the reasons you articulated. But it also felt faster, more nimble, and more responsive -- as soon as we started pedalling I felt much more like I was on my single than was the case with the Co-Motion. Maybe the better wheelset had a lot to do with that? I'm very interested in trying one of the comparable Co-Motion tandems (Robusta and the other one whose name escapes me). Unfortunately, the shop we went to doesn't have either of those models in stock -- apparently they do more business in Santanas than Co-Motions.

Larry Black, owner of Mt. Airy & College Park Cyclery, has forged a long-standing and great relationship with Bill & Jan McCready. He often fills the role as "chief mechanic" on their large, high-end overseas tours and yes, he sells a lot of Santanas. Back to your first impressions, there's no doubt that the lighter frame, Shimano wheelset, and rock-solid geometry of the Santana produced a great ride vs. the steel Speedster which most likely was fitted with much heavier, conventionally spoked wheels. As you note, taking a spin on the equivalent Co-Motion Robusta would be a better apples-to-apples comparison. The other high-end Co-Motion you are probably thinking of is the Supremo (comparable to Santana's Team Niobium): same go-fast goodies hung on a Reynolds air hardened steel frame.

Although I'm not positive, I think your closest Co-Motion specialist is TandemsEast just across the river from Philadelphia in Pittsgrove, NJ. [http://www.tandemseast.com/] Like a lot of the tandem specialty dealers, Mel & Barb Kornbluh run the business from their home and they are one of Co-Motion's top 10 dealers. Definitely the right place to go for a Co-Motion. Unfortunately, they don't sell Santana's tandems so the possibility of a back-to-back test ride is pretty remote. That could be good or bad but, on the bright side, I'm pretty sure he'll have several other brands/models of tandems in your size to look at or test ride, including some Bushnells.


I agree that the idea of starting with something less-expensive makes a lot of sense financially. My fear is that if I settle for a lower-performance bike, then I may find myself pining for my single rather than enjoying the tandem.

It's all about buying within your budget and, yes, you could definitely find yourself longing for the thorougbred rather quickly if the tandem thing clicks with you and your stoker. Moreover, upgrading a tandem is a losing proposition as the go-fast goodies are expensive. We outgrew our first tandem ($3,600 tied up in a '96/97 Santana Arriva) in about 7 months. Sold it for $2,950 with 4,000 miles on the ODO in Dec '98 about a week before our $6,500 custom Erickson arrived. In hindsight, if I knew about tandems 6 months after we owned our first tandem, I would have made a different purchasing decision. And, with what I know now -- still having the first Erickson tandem plus a second Erickson S&S "travel tandem" that we acquired in '02 -- I'd probably pick something different still. It's a never-ending learning process.

Make the best decision you can working within your budget and you'll do fine. If you decide you want something different later on, a high-end Santana will always demand a premium on resale... and nothing says that you can't have more than one tandem in the stable. Heck, I'm pining for a vintage French touring tandem... go figure.

I agree that the idea of starting with something less-expensive makes a lot of sense financially. My fear is that if I settle for a lower-performance bike, then I may find myself pining for my single rather than enjoying the tandem.

Mike,

I have been a cyclist for 20 years. I also live in Maryland and I bought my tandem from Larry Black. I am also unmarried. I wanted to spend more time with my girlfriend doing something active and I had hopes that if I introduced her to cycling, she would enjoy it and we could ride together. But, I didn't want to spend a ton of time coasting at 9 MPH which is what it would be (and is) with her on a single!

In the Fall of 2004 I visited Mt. Airy cycles on two occasions with my girlfriend. They steered us (slightly) toward the lowest end Santana. I test road the steel Santana, an aluminum Trek, a Cannondale, the KHS Milano and a Longbikes tandem.

I thought they were all nice. But the test rides were the first time my girl or myself had ever ridden a tandem. I ended up getting the bottom of the line KHS Milano. Why? because I could not justify the difference in the ride of any of the other bikes considering that the next closes bike in price was more than twice the cost. I have 'personalized' the bike since then with a few upgrades but still have maybe $1200 in it.

I have a carbon fiber racing bike. I still love to ride the tandem! Just being out there poking along with the one you care about is so much fun! We will go fast some times, but I tend to get myself into trouble with that and have been working on not being so competitive. Your speed will have more to do with your combined abilities than with what bike you buy.

No mater what tandem you get, I don't think you will have to worry about not wanting to ride it...as long as your girl is into it.

(QUOTE from above) I ended up getting the bottom of the line KHS Milano. Why? because I could not justify the difference in the ride of any of the other bikes considering that the next closes bike in price was more than twice the cost.


We started out on a KHS Milano :) to see if the wife even liked Tandem riding(we were never able to ride the same pace on singles). I will say for the money the KHS is a very nice tandem with good performance. It takes time on a tandem and a few miles to figure it all out. What we found as we progressed as a Tandem team, is that we wanted more weight savings and better components being the KHS was around 45 to 46 pounds. We upgraded to a Cannondale that was on sale and found the tandem to be lighter by several pounds and it took less effort to get up to speed and had a much stiffer frame. We were so hooked after having the Cannondale for about 8 months along with a Trek for a short time, also a great Tandem but we sold it to some friends wanting to get into Tandem riding. Then we upgraded to a top line Co-Motion and wow! we found ourselves climbing grades on our normal riding routes 3 to 4 miles per hour faster with less effort and coming down grades with smooth flawless fast handling and steering. If you ride a lot and it is the one thing you and your partner love, (in my case my wife) by all means it is worth the higher price paid for a top line tandem.

The key thing is riding together and enjoying the Tandem experience with whatever Tandem you own. I prefer to ride a Tandem with the wife over my single bike any day.

Take care,:)
Bill G

Great to hear you've got a good relationship going and she is willing to kick in part of the cost . . . got to start this "we" business early. As for a 50 year lomg relationship, we have that beat as we celerated 51 years of *happy* marriage this year and 31+ years as a tandem duo.
Both Mel and Larry are great people to deal with and extremely tandem savvy; we started out with a production tandem in '75 and have since owned 4 full custom tandems.
As for tandems lasting . . . . put well over 50,000 miles (each) on the last 3 customs and currently have over 10,000 miles on our c/f Zona tandem.
We consider a quality, good fitting tandem, to be an investment in our good health.
You have the right approach . . . do some test riding and then you two can decide
Good luck in your quest!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Something told me I had imput on this thread.

Last march I broke my leg. While on pain killers and unable to do for myself I bought a burley rumba softride frame off ebay. built it got it going around June.

2000 miles later ... We are looking for a new tandem why b/c the burley is just too big for both of us

AND WE ARE HOOKED
but it took a few months more than once she got off the bike in the middle of a ride madder than a hornet ready to walk 10 miles back to the house in her cleats.

after each time I thought to my self Crud I have a ton of money invested in this thing with someone who wants nothing to do with me or this bike.


found a used 00 cannondale (bought for 1200 used for a extended test ride) very nice it was a XS just too big for me.
sold to my tall friend I knew he wanted it if I didn't

So we went to Alabama and test road a few bikes.

Santana team ti travel... very nice could make sacrifces to afford it. est 10,000

co-motion speed travel .... absolutly the best thing I've ridden in a while It was responsive fast made to climb it was a very racey ride est 5,000

What do we have on order .. a 2,499 Cannondale why it has Ultrega rides nice wife likes it. Yep it didnt come with the best wheels or the best cranks but in a few years if I still work for a airline maybe we will drop some coin on the travel tandem.

getting to the point.

As I tell friends who are interested in cycling. go to yard sale find 20 to 100 dollar road bike. ride it... ride it... ride it... Then once your hooked find what you want. too many people buy big ticket bikes befor they ride enough to appreachiate them.

"A tandem speeds a relationship along the direction it is heading."

I've read that in a book, heard it from other tandem riders, observed the results (both ways), and been happily married for six years. Personally, I feel a tandem is more about a relationship than bicycling.

That said, I think several people have provide excellent insight and suggestions regarding the purchase of a tandem. A good used tandem will give you the opportunity to experience tandeming at a lower entry price. Tandem Magazine (defunct) has an active classified ad section. There are always a number of excellent tandems listed.

http://www.tandemmag.com/classified/

Hell, this is a cheap way to "find out" about a relationship. Buy a house and have things go wrong, then get back to me! That aside - aluminum, any sort of aluminum, is not going to be as comfortable as steel, no matter what. IN my experience, Ti isn't as comfortable as steel either but better than Al. Carbon is teh way to go if you can afford it. Having said that, I have a Cdale road tandem which is OK, but also have a Co MO steel w/S&S couplers: far better. I race a COlnago C40, so have some experience with a great handling machine. The Co MO was the best handling tandem we tested. We rode a bunch of them. ONe day I may spring for a carbon tandem but not today. In my opinion that would only be valuable if I start racing and teh weight factor becomes significant. WHich may be next week.

+1 on carbon fiber tandem!

I hope the original poster can hear the 'truth' in the many responses. It might be difficult for him to accept advice to buy a used tandem but certainly there are competent 'entry-level' tandems to consider. I know that our Raleigh Coupe would satisfy him and his sweetie but does he? Our first tandem cost $200.00. We knew each other exactly one week when we bought it. Spending more just was not warranted. Is the original poster going to buy a $25,000 diamond when the time comes 'because he can' or will he buy a $10,000 ring and put $15,000 in an interest bearing account because after $10,000 only a certified gemologist could tell the difference anyway. How does one justify 'only' spending $10,000 on a ring when one has dropped $7K on a bicycle. Of course she's enthusiastic... I only know two very wealthy people. Both are extremely frugal yet the things they purchase serve them very well. It isn't a judgement we are making to offer budget strategies. I think we all feel that a 1300 tandem is certainly enough tandem for you especially since your GF's inexperience is going to limit your performance on a tandem believe it or else. A $3000.00 tandem wont be three times better and a 6K tandem absolutely will not be six times better. I am glad we bought our $200 Kent before buying the Raleigh. The handling of the Raleigh is so far beyond the Kent that had we approached it as our first bike I think we would have found it impossible to ride.

H

buy a $25,000 diamond when the time comes 'because he can' or will he buy a $10,000 ring and put $15,000 in an interest bearing account because after $10,000 only a certified gemologist could tell the difference anyway. How does one justify 'only' spending $10,000


I know you put commas in those jewelry prices, but I had to count the zeros to be sure. :eek:

-Greg

I agree that any team that is not sure about its commitment to tandem riding should not spend large amounts of money on a first tandem. Notwithstanding my endorsement of the Santana Niobium as a great bike above, it was not my first tandem. My first was a used Santana Cilantro that we got for about $2,000, and even that was a stretch.

We really enjoyed it over the years, but it was getting a bit long in the tooth, was quite a bit heavier than the new stuff, and we wanted a travel bike. So for all those reasons, we got the Niobium with couplers. Again, however, if you are not sure that a tandem will work for your relationship or situation, it is not wise to spend lots of money up front.

Ira

[QUOTE=mike974]

My questions are the following:

1) I used to ride aluminum frame Cannondales, which while very responsive, became too hard on my body. I love my Trek carbon. Although the Santana felt very nice on the test ride, and not at all jarring, I'm wondering if anyone with more experience with the Santana AL frames can comment on their comfort over the "long haul."

We own steel and AL Santana tandems we like the AL much better specially on long rides (double centuries).

2) Is a new Team Scandium worth the nearly $1000 price difference over the older Team AL? How much of an upgrade are we talking here?

Have not tried the Scandium. But we have tested and CF Arizona and want to buy one as soon as we can.

3) Am I crazy to be contemplating dropping 6-7 grand on a first time tandem? My GF, who is generally the Voice of Reason in our relationship, is actually very excited about it and not at all hesitant. I guess I'm just worried that she might change her mind down the road, so to speak. I suppose this is probably not a truly answerable question, more along the lines of a relatively anonymous unburdening of my worries.

My wife was/is not a cyclist per-se. She much better likes running, mainly marathons. I also use to run but my knees started acting up. We are now hooked on tandeming and we will love to have more time to ride more. The tandem experience is much more than ridding a single. When we first contemplated buying a tandem she wanted to buy something very close to the best available at that time. I wish I had listened.... we bought a used Burley and rode it sporadically for about 10 years. When an upgrade was inminent again my wife wanted very close to the best. Again I chickenend out and settle for a Soverign. I wish I had listened.... In my opinion, the key is what your means are. 6-7K may not be a lot for you. If you use the tandem for a year it will be well worth it.

People on this forum and eslwere talk about recuping your investment... the way we see it, every mile we ride is worth all the expense.

I'd also be interested in any general impressions/thoughts on the Santana Team bikes.

Because we do not have the money right now to buy the CF tandem, we are ordering a new set of wheels, a Carbon fork and a disk brake to upgrade our Soverign. Even if we only use the upgraded tandem one season... it will be well worth it!

We all have our preferences on what we spend our $$$ on . . . But it does boil down to priorities. We consider our tandem an investment in our health/longevity.
We are retired, own one car and hell of a nice custom c/f ariZona tandem . . . our priorities may differ from yours!

Just curious cornucopia, what do you like more about the AL over the steel, or for that matter any others with opinions on it? Do you prefer AL to steel for all tandem riding and not just longer rides? Why do you prefer the AL especially on the longer rides? Should I assume your answers are your wifes answers? Does your wife use a standard or suspension seatpost?

I wish I could like the stuff, maybe I just need to do extended riding on one after I get some miles on tandems.

Just curious cornucopia, what do you like more about the AL over the steel, or for that matter any others with opinions on it? Do you prefer AL to steel for all tandem riding and not just longer rides? Why do you prefer the AL especially on the longer rides? Should I assume your answers are your wifes answers? Does your wife use a standard or suspension seatpost?

I wish I could like the stuff, maybe I just need to do extended riding on one after I get some miles on tandems.

Two reasons: weight and lateral stiffness. The tandem feels a lot easier on the captain’s butt and stoker’s arms than a single. My wife uses a suspension seat post in both tandems. But, when we tested the CF Arizona, she did not use a suspension seat post and did not miss it at all. I also use double tape on the handlebars.

I can see the weight part but I just have not experienced the more comfort of AL. Oh well, maybe not in the cards in this lifetime :). Trying out a CF would be nice but it will be years before we have enough miles tandeming and can afford one. Anyone want to sell one cheap? lol