"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - titanium vs. carbon

I'm sure this subject has been overdone, but....I'm mid-50's, became fanatical about rod biking last summer, want to upgrade from Cannondale (a fine bike but too harsh). Will never race, want to climb better, go distances longer than 25-30 (4-5x/wk.) and be less fatigued at the end. Am getting conflicting info/advice on carbon vs. titanium. Good LBS's promote what they sell...so, they don't help much. Am not expert/experienced enough to know what's what. Am 6', 215. Looking at Kestrel Talon, Litespeed Tuscany or custom (which raises a whole different set of questions) Seven or Sampson. Advice/opinions eagerly sought and appreciated.

This has been discussed a couple of times in the last month or two. Do a search for the threads (I'd try "titanium" and "carbon" first together, and then separately).

I myself have come to the conclusion that I will most likely be getting steel when I get my new bike. For comfort, it has much to recommend it. It will be about as stiff as Ti, and cost considerably less than either Ti or C. Although I have relatively normal body proportions, I will probably go custom--mostly because I have found a builder here who does really great looking steel frames out of Stainless Steel (no rust!).

Remember, getting a bike that fits is more important than what it is made off. Whatever you do, don't compromise on fit.

Cheers,
Jamie

I was in the same EXACT situation and ended up with a Calfee Luna Pro with Campy Chorus
www.calfeedesign.com

I first test rode the CAAD7 (alum) liked it, fast
Then a LeMond Zurich (steel) liked it better, more comfortable
Then a Litespeed Venetto (Ti) like it even more
Then a Calfee (carbon) WOW is the best I can do.

Did I say WOW, an understatement.

Wow, I really wanted to get a Luna. Got any pics????

palooka,

I expect to get my new Luna in about 2 weeks, I will post a pic.

Calfee Luna frameset Cobalt blue fade
Reynolds Orzo Pro fork, carbon steerer, carbon spacers
Velocitiy Aerohead rim 32 degree (yellow)
'03 Chorus 13 29 10 spd group, midcage
Deda handlebar Magic
Deda Magic stem
Chorus seatpost w/setback
Michelin Axial Carbon 23c tires/black w/yellow stripe
Michelin ultralight tubes
Flite genuine gel saddle, manganese rail
Bebop stainless pedal set
Echo F-2 computer w/cadence
Tie & solder r wheel 14 ga. double butted spokes front and rear
2 Arundel carbon bottle cages

Thanks for the replies. Just bought a new, 2001 Litespeed Tuscany frame/ouzo fork. $950. Will build up. Any thought on wheels for a big rider?

Originally posted by rsorganize
Thanks for the replies. Just bought a new, 2001 Litespeed Tuscany frame/ouzo fork. $950. Will build up. Any thought on wheels for a big rider? Well,it probably won't 'beat you up' as bad as the Cannondale. But it's not about material anyway,but more about fit,geometry , how it's enginered and put together.Any material can work or not work for a given situation.Maybe you need to work on fitness and weight too(your own).

Ouch!! Pretty presumptuous and a bit rude, too, Pokey. Asking for advice, not a nip.

:lol:

Woah woah woah, spread the love

Originally posted by rsorganize
Ouch!! Pretty presumptuous and a bit rude, too, Pokey. Asking for advice, not a nip. That's the price you have to pay for FREE advice,and usually there is something to it.Next time fork over $100 in advance and maybe I'll shove a rainbo.

It is truly unfortunate - as is becoming apparent to more and more people it seems - that a person who has some solid knowledge regarding cycling mechanics has the social skills of an eight year old. But that's what life nowadays has come to.

Freedom has its price, and this kind of thing is part of it.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by gmason
It is truly unfortunate - as is becoming apparent to more and more people it seems - that a person who has some solid knowledge regarding cycling mechanics has the social skills of an eight year old. But that's what life nowadays has come to.

Freedom has its price, and this kind of thing is part of it.

Cheers...Gary Lighten up,and maybe try a different brand of prune juice.You people are just wound too tight.Riding your bicycle is good threapy.Try it.

I agree with Pokey... some of you have to lighten up. I think a little dig with some free (solid) advice should be the norm around here!

I am willing to go on record as defending Pokey's frankness. There tends to be a lot of applesauce thrown around, and I appreciate having a few members who play "applesauce detective."

And, there are a few others around here who try to play that role (with less success), but are unable to do so without becoming directly insulting. I have never seen Pokey intentionally insult a person--which should not be confused with calling their opinion wrong--unless he was attacked first.

As a pure matter of fact, the suggestion that provoked this latest exchange stated that the original poster should also focus on his fitness and his weight as a way of becoming a happy cyclist who is able to "climb better, go longer distances ... and be less fatigued at the end." Pokey's implication was that focusing too much on the bike (and its weight) would not get him to this goal as quickly as paying attention to his own fitness and weight would.

That is sound, frugal advice--although it is also rather obvious. To quote Mr. Armstrong, "It's not about the bike." It is not as if Pokey said that the poster was outright "fat."

Cheers,
Jamie

Originally posted by jmlee
"applesauce detective."

Does that come with a badge or at least a laminated ID card?;)

As the 'original poster', do I have the right to close this discussion. For the sake of peace in this little corner of the world, can I declare that I did not take offense!! But, perhaps next time folks can ask, first, before assuming anything about another person? You know those NFL running backs at 6', 220-230? They, too, might feel tired/exhausted after a 'long' ride - especially if it's a new activity. Or, an accomplished distance runner playing a serious game of basketball? In the same way that size/weigth don't automatically prove 'fatness', exhaustion/fatigue in a new activity doesn't necessarily indicate 'being out of shape'. For the record: I could be in better shape...and lose a few pounds (I'm 10 pounds above my weight as a good college athelete). And that, in fact, is why I intend to increase the amount of riding I do and improve the tools I have to accomplish that. But, you understand all that - don't you, Pokey? And, all you were really trying to do was to provide some incentive...right?! I accept that! So, end of this discussion? On to the next target...(oops!) issue!!

...oh, and does anyone have any advice on my question about wheels? I really do believe that there is serious expertise out there...andI'm trying to figure out how to tap into it. I'm thinking Kysrium Elite vs. Velomax Orion. Assuming that I reach the goals Pokey and I have set - say minus 10-15 pounds, Pokey?? - I'll still be a 'big rider'. So, which of these wheels might be better for the current and future (slim, trim and tireless) rsorganize?? Thanks!

I don't think you could go wrong with Mavic 32-hole OpenPro rims and Chorus hubs. They seem to hold up well and will support a more robust rider. I think there are a few x-cross riders out there that use and abuse them.

Originally posted by rsorganize
...oh, and does anyone have any advice on my question about wheels? I really do believe that there is serious expertise out there...andI'm trying to figure out how to tap into it. I'm thinking Kysrium Elite vs. Velomax Orion. Assuming that I reach the goals Pokey and I have set - say minus 10-15 pounds, Pokey?? - I'll still be a 'big rider'. So, which of these wheels might be better for the current and future (slim, trim and tireless) rsorganize?? Thanks! I'm not big on expensive boutique wheels for recreational riders. Consider mavic cxp33 or open pros built with ultegra or DA hubs laced 3x with 14/15 spokes 32 hole.Excel or colorado cyclist does them well. I don't think the elites give you anything the ones I mentiond don't,except looks and a lighter wallet.But for some, looks is everything.

http://bikeforums.net/misc.php?action=faq&page=1#about

Thanks for the advice. This has been quite an introduction to a new part of the cycling world. Cutting the thread....

Originally posted by jmlee
To quote Mr. Armstrong, "It's not about the bike."

The BOOK was not about the bike. He wrote the book about his struggle with cancer and it's effect on his life. Not specifically about biking - and titled the book accordingly.

If there is a professional cyclist that is scientific about not only his training and fitness, but his BIKE, it's Lance Armstrong.

Nice frame/fork, rsorganize. I'm jealous :)

Mike, sweet Calfee :) Love the color combination. Is that a carbon steerer? I would be nervous with a stack like that...

Mike, sweet Calfee :) Love the color combination. Is that a carbon steerer? I would be nervous with a stack like that... [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Palooka, I am new to the sport and this is my first road bike. You are the second person to voice a similar concern...what are my risks?

A very repected LBS owner built this bike for me and seemed to spend a lot of time over the fit.

Originally posted by pokey
Well,it probably won't 'beat you up' as bad as the Cannondale. But it's not about material anyway,but more about fit,geometry , how it's enginered and put together.Any material can work or not work for a given situation.Maybe you need to work on fitness and weight too(your own).

Pokey,
I would just like to say that I find your attitude, unwarranted in the midst of fellow cyclist. From prior experience I have learned that when someone asks in a group advice it is out of trust. Most of the time it is under the guise that one wil not belittled or ridiculed at the expense of making oneself look better or merely to show humor at some level.
It takes a certain amount of calhouns to admit or show ones ignorance about a topic. If we are knowledgeable about the topic moreso than the person asking the queston how is it that they deserve negative treatment?

Thanks, Palooka...really looking forward to building it up and trying to lift what has been a great experience, so far, to something special.

And, Mike, your new bike is truly beautiful. Enjoy!

And, pokey: I'll do my best to 'lighten up' both literally and figuratively.

Peace all!


'war is not the answer'

Rsorganize,

just a question: why the continued dig at Pokey about lightening up? His last post was entirely about wheels. And he stated an intelligent piece of advice (that you can get very good wheels for a lot less money than some of the stuff that is in vogue).

Please don't misunderstand the nature of my post. I know well that Pokey can defend himself. And, I am not trying to play thread sherriff here, but, I find it a little strange that you regarded his first post as harsh and asked us to return to your original question, but then continue to throw out barbs yourself.

Palooka,

with respect to my citing Mr. Armstrong's title, I am fully aware of the content of the book. And, I used it in a different context, to make a different point--i.e. that cycling more about is about what we do on a machine with two wheels, about our bodies and our souls, than it is shaving off a minimal number of grams for maximal amounts of money. Since I assumed that most would know the original context of the quote, I didn't see the harm in turning it to a different purpose. I doubt that Mr. Armstrong would disapprove or disagree with this usage.

I could have easily cited Andy Hamstead (I think), who once said something like "It's not the bike, it's the rider."

Cheers,
Jamie

Relax, Jamie. It wasn't meant as a 'dig'! It was an (apparently weak and ineffective) attempt at humor and to duffuse the tension. Can't we cut this thread, yet?

Originally posted by pokey
Well,it probably won't 'beat you up' as bad as the Cannondale. But it's not about material anyway,but more about fit,geometry , how it's enginered and put together.Any material can work or not work for a given situation.Maybe you need to work on fitness and weight too(your own).

What a low ball attitude... It's about fit, geometry and don't forget bright one...geometry offers a ride that's made up of differing, sometimes controversial materials; some proven, some not so. He was seeking honest advice from the nice helpful people that frequent BikeForums. Then there's the not so perfect smart a** critical attack from someone that's protected by the internet interface and double locked doors spouting off like the little person they no doubt are.

:mad:

remeber, rsorganize, titanium has some seperate precautions that need to be taken to keep it from getting screwed up. For your seatpost, remember to slather it liberally with copper anti-seize grease. Basically, anything that touches titanitum should be greased with the stuff. There is a thread here somewhere.


greasing stuff (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19802)

Originally posted by Phatman
remeber, rsorganize, titanium has some seperate precautions that need to be taken to keep it from getting screwed up. For your seatpost, remember to slather it liberally with copper anti-seize grease. Basically, anything that touches titanitum should be greased with the stuff. There is a thread here somewhere.


greasing stuff (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19802) Antiaseize is nasty stuff,especially on clothers and other places it does not belong.Save it for threaded parts.Grease works fine on a Ti frame with typical Al post(3+ years expeience here). No grease on a CF post though.

Thanks, phatman and pokey....very helpful. Didn't know this. Will talk to my LBS as we put it together and will keep in mind once I'm up and riding.

Peace.

Titanium is Timeless, Carbon is Cool

I'll smack you in the face, and cause you to drool!

RAP BATTLE!!!!!!!

You're playn' the fool
I got no beef wit you,
But now you'll be in pain when I'm through

Well that cat named CarbonRacer, he must be dreamin'
Cause I lost my hard on, and left his mom full of -----.
Ima' pulvarise this retarted website abuser
CarbonRacer? C'mon what loser.
You look pretty dumb, and I'll make you look dumber
when i slap you in the face -- with a Q cumber!
Got this hack in my face,
god he's a waste,
He can't win,
with my rapping skills I'll knock his teeth in!

This is you:

I pretend to be tough so you'll think that I'm cool,
Even though my rap makes me look like a fool.
I don't have ----- yet, but I'll get them soon
My 14th birthday is coming in June!

Ooooooohhhhhhh Yeeeeeaaaah!!!



(Appologies to the rest of you in this thread, but it seemed to me like this thread was pretty much dead anyway...)

:roflmao:
PEACE! We out.

I am currently looking at on of the newer carbons out there...Kuota Khsano. Does anyone know about them

no, but www.calfeedesign.com is worth a look.
Craig Calfee knows what he is doing and has been doing it for sometime.

To get back to the topic at hand.......while weighing 230 I had great success for more than 6,000 miles on 36H Mavic Open Pro CD rims laced to Chorus hubs. You can get them on-line for a good price from Colorado Cyclist. Used with a Record 10-speed gruppo until this past fall. As I am now below 200 I treated myself to a set of Mavic Ksyrium Elites, which I really like, as well. A small bit stiffer than the Open Pro, but also a bit lighter in weight. And they look really flash. Either would go really well on your Litespeed with a nice Campy 10-speed group. Enjoy!

Thanks, PS. I got a great deal on a set of 2002 Velomax Orions. Everyone up here said they're great and that they work really well for bigger riders. I've gone 2003 Ultegra triple and am trying the new Shimano SPD-SL R600 pedals. Am training on old bike now and looking forward to the new one. Thanks everyone!

Peace.

ask and try what works best. depending on the road smoothness of your rides, etc. in a few more years you will be the one dishing out advice from your personal knowledge.
this was an entertaining thread to read. pokey loosens things up. now what tires did you put on the orions? i've been a michelin man but their new line is priced way up there, so am trying some vred's. i can't get the yellow like in the calfee pic --the dust of the midwest would ruin it in one ride.

In repsonse to the "original" poster, I was wondering what h-bar/stem combination will be selected.

"harshness" of ride a as factor in ride comfort extends to these components, yet I haven't heard any manufacturers come up with "packages" that match each other.

Is there a philosophy to "mating" the fork/stem bar materials?

Riph - I'm glad you raise the subject of tires. I have a few new pairs around and would welcome folks' thoughts. I have Vittorio Open Corsa (with which I have had 1500 trouble-free miles on my old bike), Conti GP 3000 and Vred. Tricomp. Thoughts?

RC - am transferring Kestrel Carbon h-bar from old bike and adding a Thomson stem. LBS thought the Thomson stem would work well. Thoughts?

Peace.