Is there somehting wrong with not going as fast as you can?

[GrannyGear]

Bunch of suckers (and not wheelsuckers)! You guys have been drawn into the same false polarity that Like to Bike started over Serious/Elitist...just another iteration of that.

Shall we argue chocolate vs. vanilla, steak vs. chicken?

Some personalities are competitive, some aren't. Some ride for heart rate, some to smell the roses. Don'cha get it? If you eschew speed and competition, personal goal setting via cycling....then don't take offense when you get passed (but do take offense if some arrogant hammerfoot sneers at you). If you are a speedshark, or push yourself towards personal goals, don't highhat tourists and flowersniffers.

Iraq is an issue, abortion is an issue.................cycling style is a matter of taste, need, and circumstance.

We have been baited into a needless controversy...........which may be fun and lively in itself but should also make us feel a bit "used" by some who thrive on trolling and provoking.

[Digital Gee]

Bunch of suckers (and not wheelsuckers)! You guys have been drawn into the same false polarity that Like to Bike started over Serious/Elitist...just another iteration of that.

Shall we argue chocolate vs. vanilla, steak vs. chicken?

Some personalities are competitive, some aren't. Some ride for heart rate, some to smell the roses. Don'cha get it? If you eschew speed and competition, personal goal setting via cycling....then don't take offense when you get passed (but do take offense if some arrogant hammerfoot sneers at you). If you are a speedshark, or push yourself towards personal goals, don't highhat tourists and flowersniffers.

Iraq is an issue, abortion is an issue.................cycling style is a matter of taste, need, and circumstance.

We have been baited into a needless controversy...........which may be fun and lively in itself but should also make us feel a bit "used" by some who thrive on trolling and provoking.

Where do I submit this post as my nominee for Post of the Day? :)

[shokhead]

And some ride just to pass anyone so they can use the,i dropped someone line.
I am not fast but i keep up a pretty good 90-95 cadence for my ride. I'd say 30% of the riders that past me i repass within 1-2 miles and i havent changed my speed. Some just have to blow by someone to keep there hugh head hugh. Whatever. I'm not changing the way i ride. I pass and get passed. I dont pay it no mind.

[FarHorizon]

Hey FH - if you were running a manufacturing company with taxes so high that making a profit is difficult would you build what MOST people want or what a few people want?

Hi cyclintom!

Were I in business, I'd build what would sell. Your claim that Trek, et al, know the market so well is belied by the success of Electra. Their Townie models sell so well that now Trek (and everyone else) are trying to get in on the action. Why didn't Trek market a Townie first?

I suggest that Trek, et al, were (are?) caught up in a myopic focus on "the 20's market" which, undoubtedly, is most interested in race bikes. I further suggest that the largest, most flush-with-cash, and most un-targeted bike market on the planet is BABY BOOMERS! I further contend that most baby boomers (you and the majority of BF posters may be exceptions) DON'T want ultra-light racers with twitchy angles and razor-narrow tires.

If the average golfer could walk into his LBS, find a comfortable road bike suitable for people OVER 120 pounds in weight, the LBS could SELL that bike to the golfer. 100% of the road bikes on my LBS's rack fail to meet these criterion.

Trek, et al, are slowly waking up, though. In a year or few, I think that numerous companies will offer bikes like I describe. Why? Because THEY'LL SELL! I could be wrong for a number of reasons (the bike companies may not wake up, baby boomers may not buy bikes, hell could freeze over...), but I think I'm right. Time will tell.

[stonecrd]

+1 to GrannyGear - Let's Just Ride

[FarHorizon]

+1 to GrannyGear - Let's Just Ride

+1 again to just ride. To the OP's question, no, there's nothing wrong with not going as fast as you can. I went as fast as I could today (REALLY hammered :D ). Why? Because I felt like it! Most days I don't and just spin along at whatever speed I want to go. No matter what speed you go, it's always better to just ride (especially rather than just NOT riding!).

[Digital Gee]

There were so many life lessons wrapped up in a 3 hour ride, I felt like I was 6 years old again!

Ain't it great? Thanks for a great ride report. And welcome back to the saddle!

[GrannyGear]

+1 to DeeGee above.

Riding a bike is kind of like........let me see, kind of like--riding a bike! You never forget. A nice wrap to this thread.

B.P.....you are one among many people here I would like to ride with some day.

[DnvrFox]

Richard Cranium vs ILTB

This ought to make for some good reading!


Oh, I don't know. I think Dick has already shot his load with his reference to "mediocre" riders not up to his standard. There is nothing more for him to say other than he either meant it or did not.

Yes, you are right. In my experience over many years, RC tends to shoot his ammo and try to do his damage, and then sneaks off.

You, on the other hand, . . . .

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Yes, you are right. In my experience over many years, RC tends to shoot his ammo and try to do his damage, and then sneaks off.

You, on the other hand, . . . .
I on the other hand can defend what I write without resorting to double talk about being all for cycling diversity, do your thing, and brotherhood while posting (or condoning/making excuses for) derisive comments about those who don't meet my own cycling standards.

However why bother; the forum has its gang of five or so good buddies who get their chuckles joshing and high fivin' each other over their cutesy banter. And I do not choose to have my honest opinions made the butt of their dang "clever" remarks.

I think I'll join RC.

[cyclintom]

Regarding frame angles............my relaxed Romulus is a much better ride for 60 miles or more and rough road..

There's a perfect example - Grant OBVIOUSLY makes a product that fits the description of people here. But he can hardly make ends meet and he's been working at it for many years now. That's something that Trek and Cannondale avoided by going for the most popular uses of bikes.

For riding in a group and "pushing" a bit, my 74/74 bike handles better. There is a utililtarian side to frame geometries. We don't all ride the same style, and as individuals we may well ride diffently on any given day. It would be simpler to have one bike, but I wouldn't want to. John E.'s comment on classic 73/73 comes close to the one bike does it all ideal. But, I doubt that jppe would give up his Trek full race...nor would Like to Bike easily relinquish whatever opposing bike he prefers. I agree its a pity that to get a quality 72/72 new bike, one has to go to a boutique maker like Rivendell.

Keep in mind the number of people who visit our section of BF and the number who visit "Road Cycling". Like it or not, we ourselves are a worthy but small niche in the world of cycling. If everyone rode Basso Gaps they'd be as happy as they are now on their upright boneshakers....until some guy claimed his Pinarello Prince was more radical and therefore "better". Bike manufacturers know this.
My Basso Loto is a real joy to ride but I'll tell you - the Look KG241 rides even better still.

[Blackberry]

"I renewed my youth, to outward appearance, by mounting a bicycle for the first time." Mark Twain, Speeches

This is an interesting remark, because didn't Mark Twain/Samual Clemens grow up before the bicycle was invented? (He did say it was the first time he had mounted a bicyle.)

Apparently, he perceived the bicycle as an instrument of rejuvenation.

Or, an instrument of humiliation, which he associated with being young.

Interesting question, so I decided to do a little research. Mark Twain, it turns out, wrote the essay, "Taming the Bicycle" in 1888, which is when the high-wheeler was well-established. He lived until 1910. You can read the essay here:
http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/888/

[cyclintom]

Clclintom,
I'm not being judgemental, nor am I conplaining about people who go faster than me. In fact, I go faster than many people myself. I was merely sparking a discussion on the philosophical/cultural aspects of cycling as it is practiced, at least in my neck of the woods. I have no difficulty with people cycling any way they please. Again, just trying to sitmulate a little discussion on behavior that I've noticed.
My appologies if I mistook your attitude Jack. With so much venom flying around on the group because of people's apprehension of being dropped it's hard to tell who is serious and who isn't.

I'm middle of the pack and at the end of races when everyone else sprinted for the line I dropped out the back knowing that I didn't want to win but just be a part of it all.

Same with group rides. I don't want to lead except when I'm riding in a group and they can't steer straight or they keep slowing to a crawl or some such.

Finding the perfect group is hard but it's even harder keeping it intact so that you can ride together often enough to keep yourself happy.

And one of my big problems with other clubs in the area is that they turn every ride into a hell bent for leather race. I think that our club is one of only three groups in the area that don't do that every ride. Not that we're perfect mind you, but USUALLY we don't ride to beat the next guy.

[cyclintom]

Were I in business, I'd build what would sell. Your claim that Trek, et al, know the market so well is belied by the success of Electra. Their Townie models sell so well that now Trek (and everyone else) are trying to get in on the action. Why didn't Trek market a Townie first?
That's a good one FH. I'm sure that they'll just make a killing.

[FarHorizon]

...Grant OBVIOUSLY makes a product that fits the description of people here. But he can hardly make ends meet and he's been working at it for many years now...

Grant doesn't mass-produce or mass-market his bikes. If Giant, GT, Trek, or even Schwinn made a "Grant style bike" and sold it for about $400-600, I believe they'd sell like hotcakes. Since I don't have to run a cycle-manufacturing company, I don't have to put my money where my mouth is. My opinion and a buck'll buy you a cup of bad coffee... You may be right, cyclintom, but I hope I am.

[GrannyGear]

If Giant, GT, Trek, or even Schwinn made a "Grant style bike" and sold it for about $400-600, I believe they'd sell like hotcakes. .

Au contraire.....I don't believe a $500 Rambouillet would sell. People at that price point are not looking for a classic (the 72/72 relaxed angle "serious" cruiser I believe FH mentioned above). Too conventional....neither racy nor upright and comfy....just a seemingly nondescript and generic bike that would look like the mass market bikes of the early 80's. Grant sells to a crowd who are reacting to trendy designs for either sensible or, forgive me, their own brand of elitist snooty reasons. People who appreciate lugs, wider fork crowns, steel itself, longer head tubes, etc. But they would be suspicious of a $500 bike. Joe Public, when he wants a road bike, either wants one blatantly styled for comfort or a fantasy stimulating "race" bike....but probably not a classic, "sound and traditional" bike like a Riv, a Surley, or Kogswell.

There is motion in the industry, I believe, to capture "us"-- somewhat knowledgable and discriminating about bikes .........offerings of "country bikes", Grants 650 wheel bikes, Volpes and Pilots and such that continue to sell...........but they still aren't promoted and sold in mass because there is no mass demand or, to big manufacturers at least, an incipient demand to seriously nurture. So, we the cognoscenti can get what we want-- but at cognoscenti prices. Even then Grant struggles...and others as well remain "boutique".

Perhaps as more boomers get brittle in the bones, or gas prices remain unstable, people will look to riding with a greater sense of utility and marketers in turn will create a non-race public perception that will then project back a demand for non-race bikes. Perhaps.

[carlton]

To me cycling is a pastime not a sport. I ride bikes for one reason" Enjoyment". Sometimes I ride fast, sometimes slow. I never allow what other people think to influence my decision on how I ride. Hope all the rest of you enjoyed your ride as much as I enjoyed mine. Later.

[FarHorizon]

...Joe Public, when he wants a road bike, either wants one blatantly styled for comfort or a fantasy stimulating "race" bike...

Sigh - I fear you may be right.

[shokhead]

You mean full kit with a bike in the 5-8K range and rides weekends only? That joe public?

[BlazingPedals]

You mean full kit with a bike in the 5-8K range and rides weekends only? That joe public?

Like it or not, that's a big slice of the market. They're the ones who keep the bike industry afloat so let's not belittle them for their cycling habits.

[shokhead]

Thats crapola,dont buy it.

[cyclintom]

Grant doesn't mass-produce or mass-market his bikes. If Giant, GT, Trek, or even Schwinn made a "Grant style bike" and sold it for about $400-600, I believe they'd sell like hotcakes. Since I don't have to run a cycle-manufacturing company, I don't have to put my money where my mouth is. My opinion and a buck'll buy you a cup of bad coffee... You may be right, cyclintom, but I hope I am.
Err, explain to me how you make this hand-made lugged steel bike with a really good finish and well thought out details, high quality steel tubing from the best manufacturers for $400-600?

I'm sure that if Ford built a Ferrrari for $12,000 they'd have a sure fire winner as well.