Advocacy & Safety - Pedestrians and their dogs

So for the ump-teenth time today, I almost ran over a pedstrian and his dog.

There is a bike path that runs along the top of the Hetch Hetchy aquaduct system here in Mountain View/Los Altos/Palo Alto. Very nice, it does have a broken yellow line painted down the cetner of it.

I come upon a group of pedestrians and as per the norm, they are just standing on the path, blocking it while bull****ing with each other. As I come upon them, I ring my bell, no response. 'EXCUSE ME PLEASE! ON YOUR LEFT!', slowly riding off onto the trail's shoulder.

So what does the living-brain-donor with the dog do? He moves off the trail to the left, right into my path. And he has the chutzpuh to say to me, 'Hey, watch it!'

Nice, huh? Whatever happened to paying attention to what's going on around you and abiding by common sense?

This is one of the many reasons I point blank refuse to even consider using bikepaths.

Well, I'm going to use the bike paths because they aren't just for pedestrians but also for cyclists. Either way, if people (bicyclists and pedestrians included) were just a little more cognizant and considerate of people around them, it would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone to use the paths.

Regardless, I use them because they are safer than riding on the street. I'd rather run over someone's dog than get run into by a car. Besides, I'm not going to surrender one of the few paths designated as a 'bike path' to selfish pedestrians.

It just sucks because everytime this sort of stuff happens to me, the less and less tolerant I become of such selfish behavior. If these folks didn't have kids with them, I would have had some pretty choice words for them (I actually said nothing in response).

I worry about dogs too, on those occasions when I do use the bikepaths- i.e during rush hour when certain roads and intersections are dangerous. ONe thing I do is call out to my riding partner "Hey, watch out for that dog up ahead!" usually the owner will hear me and leash in their dog. Of course, that only works if I'm riding with somene else. Otherwise, I'll nicely call out, "Watch out for your dog!" I have found that dog owners generally tend to be concerned with their dogs and will make sure they grab them out of your way. It's the people with kids who are clueless.

I'm not as nice as you. I usually don't say anything but just try to avoid an accident. But sometimes I'll flatly say to the dog owner as I pass, 'Put your dog on a lease like you're supposed to, dumbass.'

But people with kids.... argh... They are truly the worst. I mean, if your kid isn't old enough to understand to stay to the right and to not cross a path without looking and yielding, then your kid isn't old enough to be out there on a bike where cyclists or other traffic that's moving faster than a brisk walk.

I mean, I love to be out for a Sunday stroll myself. But I also understand that when I'm on a public pathway, I need to be considerate and aware of others. But most pedestrians/dog owners/people with very young kids, they are just so selfish, they don't care about anyone else around them.... and then they wonder why cyclists scream at them when they get forced off the trail/road. Dumbasses....

Originally posted by jatkins679
Well, I'm going to use the bike paths because they aren't just for pedestrians but also for cyclists.

If pedestrians are also allowed to use it then what you are taking about is not a bike path but a multi-use path. The pedestrians generally have right of way.


Either way, if people (bicyclists and pedestrians included) were just a little more cognizant and considerate of people around them, it would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone to use the paths.

I agree that it can be frustrating to ride these paths. I've learned that if I need to ride quickly I need to use the street. Sometimes I can tolerate just cruising down the path, but very rarely.


Regardless, I use them because they are safer than riding on the street. I'd rather run over someone's dog than get run into by a car. Besides, I'm not going to surrender one of the few paths designated as a 'bike path' to selfish pedestrians.

In fact, bike paths can be, and usually are, more dangerous. Mixing pedestrians (including small children who don't know to 'keep right), roller bladers, dogs, 'sunday' cyclists and triathlete cyclists is an invitation to disaster. Also, you are not usually immune from being struck by a car because most bike paths still have to intersect with the streets at some point or another and it is intersections which by far carry the most risk.

Often, the users of the path do not have right of way.

Also, rather than being on a major street where motorists are likely to pay attention to cross traffic, one is often emerging from somewhere the motorists are less likely to expect vehiclular cross traffic and accidents are quite common. Of course, individual paths tend to vary but in general, they are a poor choice unless you are going less than 5 m.p.h. In my experience, the benefit of 'bike' paths is to motorists, who often percieve cyclists as the cause of their traffic delays.

Thank you Bikerider. I could not have said it better myself. You omitted to mention that most bikepaths don't actually go anywhere either. Generally bikepaths are fine if you are prepared to "give way to pedestrians" or observe a speed limit of "10kph" (that's the bikepath speed limit here in Queensland) or "dismount to cross road/bridge/footpath/whatever the council feels like putting there" every 40 metres or so.

For those of us who don't like any of the above, we'll continue to use the road. Incidentally, I estimate I have ridden almost 100,000km on various roads in various settings in almost all possible conditions. If being hit by a car is as inevitable as most path advocates seem to think it is, I'm going to go out and buy a lottery ticket.

Originally posted by Chris L
If being hit by a car is as inevitable as most path advocates seem to think it is, I'm going to go out and buy a lottery ticket.

Luckily I haven't been involved in a major accident on the roads yet. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket too. Of course, having said that, I've tempted fate and probably won't live till the end of next week now. Actually my last accident with an automobile happened a couple of months ago and was on a bike path. I rounded a corner and there was a park service truck sitting squarely across the path. I braked hard but still managed to tap it. There was no damage or injuries and I was even still upright. The park service guy who had been checking something out in the woods came over to see if I was okay. He apologised profusely and moved the truck over to the side of the path.

People think they will get run over by a car coming up behind them. From what I have read there is an extremely low incidence rate for this type of accident. Crossing an intersection using a sidewalk/path is much more dangerous.
Where I have been living I use both path and road. What cheeses me off are the low class individuals who allow their dog to crap on the path.

What I hate are those expanding leashes - you know, the ones that have the leash coiled up in the handle. It makes it look like the dog is on a 3' leash when he is by the owner, but the dog actually has like 20' of leash-line.

I was riding by a lady and her HUGE dog. He saw me on my bike and took off running full speed at me. Since he had a super long leash, he worked up a lot of speed and momentum.

But when he got to the end of the leash BOIYOIYOIYOIYOOOOIIIIING!! Both the dog and the owner when flying back at each other. Hee hee hee:D :D

Originally posted by bikerider


If pedestrians are also allowed to use it then what you are taking about is not a bike path but a multi-use path. The pedestrians generally have right of way.


No, you're making assumptions and you'd be wrong. This is signed as a 'bike path' and there is a broken yellow line down the center of the path. What do you think all that means?

No, you're making assumptions and you'd be wrong. This is signed as a 'bike path' and there is a broken yellow line down the center of the path. What do you think all that means?

Well I feel your pain. But a pedestrian almost always has the right of way, wether on a road, bike path, side walk, etc.

Andrew

Pedestrians have the right-of-way on sidewalks, but I'm not sure anyone knows for sure who has the right-of-way on a multi-use path. It's the law of the jungle.

It varies somewhat from state to state, but pedestrians do not generally have the right-of-way. Drivers are advised not to hit pedestrians, even jay-walkers, but that's a different thing than pedestrians having the right-of way.

If you are off of the road, and there is no other sidewalk per say, you are going to have a hard time convincing anybody you were in the right when you run into a pedestrian, marked path or not (on the road, you probably hit the nail closer on the head). There are a few of these paths around here as well, although they aren't specifically marked as bike paths (although they are advertised as such), but good luck trying to get any decent riding done on one of them.

One of the things I love about visiting the Netherlands is the huge amount of bike paths that are everywhere. And there are also sidewalks and roads to go with them. Sure at time they are crowded and you can't really go very fast, so when I'm there I'll just ride at an off time (and even so, riding on the roads is so much nicer since motorists actually see you).

Andrew

Originally posted by jatkins679
No, you're making assumptions and you'd be wrong. This is signed as a 'bike path' and there is a broken yellow line down the center of the path. What do you think all that means?


The yellow line means absolutely nothing, and the meaning of the other things is negligible. There have been situations like that in this country, too. Cyclists have complained about pedestrians using signed "bike paths" when there was even a separate pedestrian path not 3 metres away. They got nowhere. It means absolutely nothing. If you were to actually collide with a pedestrian on one of these paths, I know whose side the law would be on (regardless of who was at fault).

Originally posted by jatkins679
I come upon a group of pedestrians and as per the norm, they are just standing on the path, blocking it while bull****ing with each other.
I am fairly certain these ped's and their canine cohorts don't practice this coffee-house chatting while standing squarely in the middle of the street...then again, come to think of it, I have seen that before!

:eek:

But sometimes I'll flatly say to the dog owner as I pass, 'Put your dog on a lease like you're supposed to, dumbass.'
But people with kids.... argh... They are truly the worst.. . .

Why don't you stick with your previous policy and just say "Put your kids on a leash, dumbass" :D

Once, some kids were being very rowdy in the supermarket. Many people were annoyed, but too polite to say anything. Not me. :) I said "Did you monkeys just escape from the zoo, or do you belong to someone?" The mother heard, and went over to them and (finally) settled them down.

We don't have any bike paths here... heck, we don't even have any bike lanes. In twenty plus years of riding here, I've never had the slightest problem with pedestrians. That said, when I go visit my folks, their town has a fine interlocking system of bike lanes-- which joggers constantly occupy. Based on this, I think I'll go with no bike lanes/paths...
The only time I've had a problem with a dog is once an unleashed, unsupervised flea catcher of a dog ran out and attacked me. I swerved to avoid it, hit a parked car, and destroyed the front fork on one of my Peugeots. What a pain to replace-- I finally gave up and replaced fork, headset, bars and stem to get around the threading problems. I should have just run over the dog, he was about the size of a rat and I think I would have done less damage to the bike.

Hey bikes are traffic they belong on the street with the rest of the traffic. :D seriously we only have one path in town that is designated fro bikes and peds (that i know of) and i avoid it during the summer becasue of all teh people with walkmen on who can't hear you yell "on the left" and insist that they should walk right down the center of the path! But since i cycle all winter, its not a hassel during the cold months since who but us fools are out during the cold months???:p Oh and One accident involving a car in 2 yrs is pretty good i think. Fellow backed out of the drive w/o looking till the last minute he stopped i almost stopped and combined it was enought to upset me No damage to me bent a chainring on the bike. easy to fix.

"Once, some kids were being very rowdy in the supermarket. Many people were annoyed, but too polite to say anything. Not me. I said "Did you monkeys just escape from the zoo, or do you belong to someone?" The mother heard, and went over to them and (finally) settled them down."... Sounds like something I would have said.

Regarding peds being hit... I know in some states there is a clause in the law about peds taking care... which means if the peds dart out into the street, not in a marked area such as a cross walk, etc., and they get hit, its their fault. Same goes on a bike.

In Adelaide a designated "bike path" is just that, you can not walk on it and can be ticketed. They are covered by our road rules and treated like a road as far as the law is concerned. Unfortunatley there is only one such path and it is only 5km long, the new section which is 20km long is open to everyone.

Here is link to a guy that has made the policing of this bike path his mission. http://www.veloway.org/

Here is a link to an article in todays paper about "paths"
http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,5805776%255E2682,00.html

I stopped using shared paths once I started averaging +25kph. I found it to be too dangerous for me as well as for other people. I now stick to the roads.

CHEERS.

Mark

Some of them are supposed to be legislated here in Queensland, too. The trouble is, it's one of those legislations that is simply never enforced.

Originally posted by jatkins679
I'm not as nice as you. I usually don't say anything but just try to avoid an accident. But sometimes I'll flatly say to the dog owner as I pass, 'Put your dog on a lease like you're supposed to, dumbass.'

But people with kids.... argh... They are truly the worst. I mean, if your kid isn't old enough to understand to stay to the right and to not cross a path without looking and yielding, then your kid isn't old enough to be out there on a bike where cyclists or other traffic that's moving faster than a brisk walk.

I mean, I love to be out for a Sunday stroll myself. But I also understand that when I'm on a public pathway, I need to be considerate and aware of others. But most pedestrians/dog owners/people with very young kids, they are just so selfish, they don't care about anyone else around them.... and then they wonder why cyclists scream at them when they get forced off the trail/road. Dumbasses....

You're the man! Couldn't of said it better myself. :thumbup: :beer:

Like Dutchie said BIKE PATHS are not for anyone but bicycles and are usually running beside the roadway.

MULTIPATHS like the ones that you see in parks and have grass and flowers and such are for everyone and I have never seen one that does not have a 10mph (or equal) speed limit on it.

If you have the need to speed, you have to get out on the big road and dice it up with the autos. the MULTIPATHS are not race courses.

Ever seen Gladiator, where Maximus was in the arena and those scythe chariots came out?

God I hope someone invents some of these for bike wheels:

Pedestrian 1: So I was like, that was good beer.

Pedestrian 2: Yeah, nice and rich.

Pedestrian 1: Hey, hear that? Sounds like a biker. Let's release our German Shepards to scare the hell out of him.

Pedestrian 2: Great idea!

(Pedestrians release dogs)

Dog 1: Woof woof!

Biker: Holy ****! Dogs! Chaaaaaarge!

(Grinding noise)

Pedestrian 1: (No comment).

This is exactly the reason I always slow down to a crawl or stop when around a pedestrian, dog or not. Of course, it's no big deal to me. The fastest I think I've ever gone is around 15 mph on a shallow incline. Heavy bike, I'm not in great shape to begin with, and most of my town is pretty flat. :)

The worst experience I ever had with a dog wasn't on the road, but in someones yard. Way back in the dawn of time just after I was out of highschol I was biking to work when someones little daughsund came tearing out their front door as I rode past on the other side of he road, barking like mad, dashed right out into the street and got nailed by a passing car right in front of me. Family came out of the house screaming and wailing, and carried to poor little animal back into the house. I had no idea what to say or do and it still tears me up to this day. :(