I recently started a new job that requires a 50 minute drive each way. With gas prices heading up, I have been investigating utilizing a combination of train and bicycle as an alternative. The vital statistics for me and my ride are
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 170 lbs.
Length of ride: 4.5 miles
Type of ride: Relatively flat, low-traffic, paved road
Train: Amtrak (sans bike rack)
Despite a lot of research, I could still use some advice on the following:
Make -- I think that I've narrowed my choices down to Dahon (Espresso, Jack, and Speed) and Strida. I like the purported ease of use and maintenance of the Strida, and in terms of train storage, the form factor when folded appears to be superior to the Dahon. However, I'm concerned about the 16" wheels and the current lack of US distributor. Which leads to...
Wheel size -- It looks as if most people recommend the 20" wheels. I find myself drawn to the 26" bikes, however, based on my conception that the biked leg of my commute will be easier with larger wheels and a 26" bike would be more feasible for longer rides. But, then I have to balance that with my concerns about...
Folded size -- As far as I have been able to discern, the Amtrak guidelines for folded bikes are pretty vague. I have a fear that some overzealous official will refuse to let me take a 26" on the train, leaving me stranded 50 miles from home. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Range -- It's hard to find good information on effective ranges for these bikes. Knowing that there are a lot of individual factors that come into play, if I were to go with the Strida, what would be the maximum distance I could expect to cover comfortably? How about for the 20" and 26" Dahons?
Any comments, recommendations, or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Anthony
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I recently started a new job that requires a 50 minute drive each way. With gas prices heading up, I have been investigating utilizing a combination of train and bicycle as an alternative. The vital statistics for me and my ride are
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 170 lbs.
Length of ride: 4.5 miles
Type of ride: Relatively flat, low-traffic, paved road
Train: Amtrak (sans bike rack)
Despite a lot of research, I could still use some advice on the following:
Make -- I think that I've narrowed my choices down to Dahon (Espresso, Jack, and Speed) and Strida. I like the purported ease of use and maintenance of the Strida, and in terms of train storage, the form factor when folded appears to be superior to the Dahon. However, I'm concerned about the 16" wheels and the current lack of US distributor. Which leads to...
Wheel size -- It looks as if most people recommend the 20" wheels. I find myself drawn to the 26" bikes, however, based on my conception that the biked leg of my commute will be easier with larger wheels and a 26" bike would be more feasible for longer rides. But, then I have to balance that with my concerns about...
Folded size -- As far as I have been able to discern, the Amtrak guidelines for folded bikes are pretty vague. I have a fear that some overzealous official will refuse to let me take a 26" on the train, leaving me stranded 50 miles from home. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Range -- It's hard to find good information on effective ranges for these bikes. Knowing that there are a lot of individual factors that come into play, if I were to go with the Strida, what would be the maximum distance I could expect to cover comfortably? How about for the 20" and 26" Dahons?
Any comments, recommendations, or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Anthony
We're very similar...only I'm 1" shorter and 5lbs heavier (I like pizza). I commute by train daily, then bike 4.5 miles each way from the train station to work, then 1.1miles each way from the train station to home. I own both a Xootr Swift (primary bike) and Dahon Vitesse D5 (retired behind the sofa).
On to your concerns:
20" wheel bikes render a much more manageable and less obtrusive (aka, less likely to piss-off the train conductor) folded package. I've seen the 26" Dahon folders on the train, and let me tell you, the owners NEVER fold them. They're just too bulky to carry in that fashion, and too bulky to store on the train in any place other than the bike rack. 16" wheel bikes are cute and cuddly, but that's about it. Stick with 20". You'll thank me when it's time to buy tires.
The range you can cover comfortably on any bike is mostly a result of fit/riding position. Whichever bike you choose, take her out for a test-ride...don't make the same mistake I made by just talking the bike for a once-around-the-block jaunt. If your commute is 4.5 miles, then put 4.5miles on it and see how you feel afterwards. Then go and test another model. If you consider getting a 20" Dahon, I highly recommend you stay away from the non-height-adjustable stempost models like the Vitesse, TR, and Boardwalk. At your height, your saddle will be close to 5" BELOW the handlebars. If you like this sit-up-and-beg riding position, then feel free.
CHenry
Consider a Swift folder. With the simplest fold, it can stow on a train without taking more than about 5 seconds to either break down or set up. I can't speak for Stridas, but their small wheels won't ride as well as a 20 inch bike.
brakemeister
speed 8
simply "da -best"
:-)
Thor
Simple Simon
Strida3 - it loves trains (even loves overhead racks on trains) ;-) .. si
ajmancus
Thanks for your advice. I'm so glad I came across this forum; it's really helped to hear from so many experienced riders. I spent some time last night reading the Swift folder thread (a brand I had not even heard of). That's a nice looking bike, and I like the idea of a solid frame, rather than one that has some type of hinge in it. So, I think I'll be saving up a little bit more money, shaving my head, and joining the Swift cult. ;)
Anthony
pharnabazos
Folded size -- As far as I have been able to discern, the Amtrak guidelines for folded bikes are pretty vague. I have a fear that some overzealous official will refuse to let me take a 26" on the train, leaving me stranded 50 miles from home. Does anyone have any experience with this?
One thing to consider here is the folded size of a Swift. I don't know what the guidelines are for Amtrak, but the swift has a much larger folded size than e.g. a Dahon unless you start dissassembling it. A member here gave the dimension of the folded swift as 12"x35"x37"--that's three feet in two directions. A Dahon Speed P8 is 13" x 25" x 32".
Dave Hickey
IWheel size -- It looks as if most people recommend the 20" wheels. I find myself drawn to the 26" bikes, however, based on my conception that the biked leg of my commute will be easier with larger wheels and a 26" bike would be more feasible for longer rides. But, then I have to balance that with my concerns about...
This is a popular misconception about 20" wheeled bikes. My longest ride on a 20" wheeled bike is about 110 miles. I was more refreshed after the ride than I was on my "big" bikes. Small wheeled bikes are geared so every turn of the crank moves the bike the same distance as a 26" or 700c wheeled bike.
I run the equivilent of 28c wide tires on my Bike Friday and I find the ride more comfortable than my road bikes that run 23c or 25c wide tires
maunakea
@Dave Sounds like you have an Air Friday or an Air Glide. ....?
james_swift
Thanks for your advice. I'm so glad I came across this forum; it's really helped to hear from so many experienced riders. I spent some time last night reading the Swift folder thread (a brand I had not even heard of). That's a nice looking bike, and I like the idea of a solid frame, rather than one that has some type of hinge in it. So, I think I'll be saving up a little bit more money, shaving my head, and joining the Swift cult. ;)
Anthony
Splendid choice. The difference in ride quality between my Swift and Dahon frames is like night and day. As for the folded dimensions, my Swift's folded width is identical to my Dahon. The only difference is that the Swift is a much taller fold. I've been able to stand in the train car during peak commute with my Swift folded at my side without complaint from any of the train conductors. It takes up about the same standing space as a passenger with an upright suitcase, once you remove the bars (which is very quick and easy to do). If the Amtrak doesn't have a bike car, you can always stash your Swift in the luggage car (my preferred method).
Dave Hickey
I have a Pocket Pilot and a Pocket Rocket. I'm seriously considering an Air Friday but I don't know which of my current bikes I'd sell....
ajmancus
This is a popular misconception about 20" wheeled bikes. My longest ride on a 20" wheeled bike is about 110 miles. I was more refreshed after the ride than I was on my "big" bikes. Small wheeled bikes are geared so every turn of the crank moves the bike the same distance as a 26" or 700c wheeled bike.
That is so perfectly logical that I'm a little embarassed it didn't occur to me before I asked my question.
I run the equivilent of 28c wide tires on my Bike Friday and I find the ride more comfortable than my road bikes that run 23c or 25c wide tires
It's been more than 10 years since I've had a bike, and I'm unfamiliar with most of this material. If you don't mind a followup question -- what are the pros and cons of wider tires? Do wider tires equate to a more comfortable ride? And, with more suface area on the road, does that impact the handling or other characteristics of the bike?
Thanks for indulging my curiousity.
Anthony
folder fanatic
Here are the rules for taking a folding bike on Amtrack from it's web page:
For assistance, please call 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).
Folding Bikes Brought Aboard as Carry-On Baggage
Folding bicycles may be brought aboard certain passenger cars as carry-on baggage. Only true folding bicycles (bicycles specifically designed to fold up into a compact assembly) are acceptable. Generally, these bikes have frame latches allowing the frame to be collapsed, and small wheels. Regular bikes of any size, with or without wheels, are not considered folding bikes, and may not be stored as folding bikes aboard trains.
You must fold up your folding bicycle before boarding the train. You may store the bike only in luggage storage areas at the end of the car (or, in Superliners, on the lower level). You may not store bikes in overhead racks.
The rules seem to have become more stricter recently. I would opt for the most compact size when folded for any bike I would bring on the train. I suggest you call first before you select and purchase a bike and ask what is new size restrictions and what is the largest case that can be taken onboard as a carry-on. Try not to be tempted to do check-in as you want to be flexible as you can (getting on and getting off the train without any problems or finding assistance in getting your bike out of storage). I think my 20 inch Dahon Boardwalk is out now. But my Brompton might still have a chance to be taken on with me. Then select a bike that will not be thrown off the first time you try to board and you waste your money on something that cannot be used for multi-modal commuting.
Remember to print out the official webpages of each of the transit companies you will be using containing the rules of your folder for your sanity and protection against being prevented from boarding.
maunakea
@ff I think the folding 20" Dahons are still OK on Amtrak, at least in the Boston/D.C. corridor. The biggest factor is picking less crowded trains. Passenger complaint = conductor confrontation.
juan162
Just so you know, a stock Bike Friday pocket tourist sells for just $10 more than the swift...it's worth checking out
Juan162
mutteraj
Let me start off by saying that I am a Amtrak conductor on San Joaquin trains. Oakland Ca - Bakersfield Ca. A lot has to due with what type of passenger car you are using and how it is configered inside. Here in CA we have mainly bylevel CA cars. They each have 3 racks for full sized bikes or bagage. The guidance we are given by managment is that we can carry as many bikes as we want but they must not block doors, wheelchair access, extend into isles or dammage passenger/railroad property. The short of it is once the bike/bag space is full. You can only take on true folders that will fit in the smaller baggage areas or between the seats. I have never had to turn away a Brompton or swift they allways seem to fit some where safley. My recomendation is to ride the train during rush hour before you buy a bike and check out the bike space. Look at the amount of space for full size bikes then look for space that true folders would fit in. example: small luggage racks, over head racks or space between two seats facing back to back. CA and NC trains are both funded by state DOT money Amtrak is only the operater. You may find more info on the NC DOT web page.
mutteraj
If there are bike lockers at the train stations. You could also keep a lower cost full size bike in a bike locker at the destination train station. This way you do not have to mess with carrying a bike on/off the train.
jss273nyc
I have a Helios P8 and love it. I'm 5'7" and 160 lbs so we have pretty similar builds. I don't have too much experience riding other folders, although I did try a Brompton which I found too squirrely. I considered the swift as well, but the only thing that made me decide on the Helios instead was the not so compact fold. I figured, if I'm going to get a folding bike it should at least be compact. Anyway, just my two cents.
EvilV
A few weeks ago, I tried out some folding bikes at a dealers and hated them all. They felt really strange with very rapid steering. Nevertheless I needed a folder and settled on a Taiwanese copy of the Brompton called a Merc. Within two days, I grew to love it. It's very rideable once I got used to it; it's so easy to pick up and bring into the house, and it folds to a package 23x22x10 inches. It is now my mount of choice for any local road type useage. When I get on my Scott Aspen, it feels like a tank; seems to be stuck on a rail when it comes to a turn, and feels very cumbersome.
Like mutterage up above said, you won't get turned away with something like that. My 10 mile a day commute is a breeze now. Oh I forgot to say, it folds in about thirty seconds and fits into the supplied carrying bag in about twenty more.
eubi
Well, as you know, a bike is a very personal choice. There's no ONE PERFECT one. Have fun shopping.
Just so you know, I'm 6'1", 230#. I REALLY like pizza! :D
My daily round trip commute to the park n ride is 4.8 miles. All uphill at night or downhill in the morning. Traffic is somewhat heavy at night. But I've been a bike commuter all my adult life, so traffic doesn't scare me.
I ride a Dahon Speed 7. The minute I saw it I knew it was coming home with me!
20" Wheel size is a good balance of foldability and rideability. Also, it just looks kind of Euro and cool to me. Geared correctly, riding on 20" wheels compare to 26" wheels. Yes, I sat on the floor in the LBS and worked out the gear inches before I bought the Dahon.
We are allowed to bring full-sized bikes on the Metrolink here in the LA area. There are special areas for bikes. However, if it really gets crowded, the conductor has the authority put you out and make room for sitting passengers. With a folder, you can probably fit it under the seat or on the floor between your legs, and everyone is happy. You will have to check with your particular rail authority on this.
The longest I have ridden my Dahon at one time is 25 miles. Except for the nose of the saddle being just a bit too wide for my taste, it was quite comfortable. The Scouts I rode with still had to work to keep up with me! I was in no discomfort during or after the ride.
If there is any down side, it is that I tend to baby my Dahon compared to my Cannodale MTB. Folders are a bit flexible due to their design. I won't get out of the saddle and honk on the folder as I would the MTB.
Welcome to this forum. Let us know what you decide to get!
arommel88
I find it ironic to say that if you are looking for a folder you might not want a Swift, but if you are looking for a bike you want a Swift. It seems like a bike that happens to fold indeed. That is my problem, I want a bike to take o the train and part of the ride is trying to store it. However if I wanted a bike I would go for the Swift because sooner or later I going to need it to tavel well.
amitkulz
I find it ironic to say that if you are looking for a folder you might not want a Swift, but if you are looking for a bike you want a Swift. It seems like a bike that happens to fold indeed. That is my problem, I want a bike to take o the train and part of the ride is trying to store it. However if I wanted a bike I would go for the Swift because sooner or later I going to need it to tavel well.
Yep, especially after seeing james_swift bike with the drop bars, it looks like a racer. Sometimes it looks like a MTB with the straight bars. And after seeing pics of wav's green mean machine, I probably think that it is a bit like my black n green Ninja (the mirror made me think of the Ninja). Ninja refers to Kawasaki EX250 motorcycle. There is no alternative for me for a 30 mile one way ride.
See this link (http://mk.nabausha.com:1085/users/abhi/images/ninja250.jpg)
My Ninja looks like this (http://www.bikez.com/pictures/kawasaki/2005/21472_0_1_2_ninja%20250%20r_Image%20credits%20-%20Kawasaki.jpg)
amitkulz
EvilV and others,
How does the 3 speed Sturmey Archer feel like on the Merc/Brommie etc? Do you feel it lackin in any way? I usually am in 7th gear in my 8 speed DT
Chop!
From all I've seen and heard about the Swift, I would say that it would not be the best folder to reccomend for carrying & storing on a train. It's size & shape folded doesn't lend itself to all trains and buses.
As the query was for a bike which is suitable for mixed travel surely any compact folder would be more suitable than a Swift?
ajmancus
I find it ironic to say that if you are looking for a folder you might not want a Swift, but if you are looking for a bike you want a Swift. It seems like a bike that happens to fold indeed. That is my problem, I want a bike to take o the train and part of the ride is trying to store it. However if I wanted a bike I would go for the Swift because sooner or later I going to need it to tavel well.
Thanks for the empathy -- it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this. ;)
From what I have read, here and other places, the swift does not seem to fold as compactly as some of the other 20" bikes. On top of that, it is more expensive than some of the other models (such as the Dahon Speed). As far as I can tell, most people agree that it is a quality bike with good riding characteristics.
My commute is probably somewhat different from that of most of the people here. The train is not a commuter train, it just happens to run where I need it to run at a time that works for me. I will have a reserved seat and the number of passengers per car is pretty small. Also, the station(s) I will disembark at are not busy commuter depots. So, I may not have to put as much of a premium on the folded size as others. In that case, the Swift might be right for me.
Once again, thanks for the comments and suggestions. They are much appreciated.
PS: I live in the Raleigh-Durham area, and I am having a hard time finding bike shops that stock folders. Does anyone know of any in the NC Piedmont?
ajmancus
From all I've seen and heard about the Swift, I would say that it would not be the best folder to reccomend for carrying & storing on a train. It's size & shape folded doesn't lend itself to all trains and buses.
As the query was for a bike which is suitable for mixed travel surely any compact folder would be more suitable than a Swift?
Chop, I visited your website and it looks as if you have owned multiple Stridas. Would you mind sharing your feelings about their ride and comfort? I have roughly 4-4.5 one way for my commute; is this feasible on a Strida?
Thanks.
Chop!
I find the Strida III is ideal for around town and quite capable of a 4-4.5 mile journey. I go much further on mine (but I have changed the saddle for a sprung flamed custom jobby which is wider & a lot more comfortable!)
Remember though that it only has 1 speed so it could be hard work in hilly areas, it is also important to check that the seat height adjustment suits your height, as heightening the seat makes the seat move closer to the bars. I'm 5' 9" and it's ideal for me.
All new Stridas are IIIa models, i.e. with a small roller that prevents the belt from jumping when under heavy load. The Strida is super clean, no oil, grease or brake dust etc. low maintainance, and great in that you can wheel it along when folded, it is the fastest fold that I've come across, and they give a 60 day money back guarantee!
amitkulz
Thanks for the empathy -- it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this. ;)
PS: I live in the Raleigh-Durham area, and I am having a hard time finding bike shops that stock folders. Does anyone know of any in the NC Piedmont?
I was told that <a href="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bike_Shops/NorthRoad_1.htm">North Road Cycles </a>, Raleigh, NC 919-828-8999 stock Pashley Moultons. Give them a call and see if they stock any others you might like.
EvilV
EvilV and others,
How does the 3 speed Sturmey Archer feel like on the Merc/Brommie etc? Do you feel it lackin in any way? I usually am in 7th gear in my 8 speed DT
Sorry for the delay in responding -
Until now, I've been a mountain bike rider. I have two, one set up for rough 'off road' riding and one with hard pumped road tires, so I'm used to lots of gears, and low ones. The gears on the Merc run out at 45, 60, and 80 (units expressed in the old fashioned gear inches system). This was not what I was used to and came as a slight shock to be honest. I think my other bikes go down to about 23 inches and I do live and use the bike in a hilly and windy area. I'm no spring chicken either at 55 years old, but I am reasonably fit. I can ride the thing up some pretty steep hills, but it's obviously not a mountain bike. I just drop it into bottom gear and stand up and pedal like hell.
I am flirting with the idea of dropping the overall gear ration by buying a smaller front chainring, but as I get used to the bike, the attraction of this idea gets less. I've covered a couple of hundred miles on the bike since I got it a couple of weeks ago and I have hardly used the other bikes since. The tiny Merc just seems 'right' somehow; neat and tidy, nimble and just really neat.
In the next couple of weeks, I hope to try a bit of a tour on it - maybe two or three days, and of course, I'll have no trouble transporting it to the start or from the finish. No more of that anxiety of whether the train guard (conductor) will decide there isn't enough room. Last year when trying to return from a trip in the Yorkshire Dales to where we'd left the car, my son and I were competing with about six other cyclists for space on the train - I don't need that kind of anxiety, and if the Merc works out for gentle road touring, I won't have it anymore.
Until now, I've been a mountain bike rider. I have two, one set up for rough 'off road' riding and one with hard pumped road tires, so I'm used to lots of gears, and low ones. The gears on the Merc run out at 45, 60, and 80 (units expressed in the old fashioned gear inches system). This was not what I was used to and came as a slight shock to be honest. I think my other bikes go down to about 23 inches and I do live and use the bike in a hilly and windy area. I'm no spring chicken either at 55 years old, but I am reasonably fit. I can ride the thing up some pretty steep hills, but it's obviously not a mountain bike. I just drop it into bottom gear and stand up and pedal like hell.
I am flirting with the idea of dropping the overall gear ration by buying a smaller front chainring, but as I get used to the bike, the attraction of this idea gets less. I've covered a couple of hundred miles on the bike since I got it a couple of weeks ago and I have hardly used the other bikes since. The tiny Merc just seems 'right' somehow; neat and tidy, nimble and just really neat.
In the next couple of weeks, I hope to try a bit of a tour on it - maybe two or three days, and of course, I'll have no trouble transporting it to the start or from the finish. No more of that anxiety of whether the train guard (conductor) will decide there isn't enough room. Last year when trying to return from a trip in the Yorkshire Dales to where we'd left the car, my son and I were competing with about six other cyclists for space on the train - I don't need that kind of anxiety, and if the Merc works out for gentle road touring, I won't have it anymore.
Thanks for responding! I am seriously interested in the Merc but I was concerned if I could stand up and pedal uphill like in a single speed. You answered me on that one.
folder fanatic
EvilV and others,
How does the 3 speed Sturmey Archer feel like on the Merc/Brommie etc? Do you feel it lackin in any way? I usually am in 7th gear in my 8 speed DT.
As far as I can tell, most people agree that it is a quality bike with good riding characteristics.
My commute is probably somewhat different from that of most of the people here. The train is not a commuter train, it just happens to run where I need it to run at a time that works for me. I will have a reserved seat and the number of passengers per car is pretty small. Also, the station(s) I will disembark at are not busy commuter depots. So, I may not have to put as much of a premium on the folded size as others. In that case, the Swift might be right for me. -amitkulz
folder fanatic
EvilV and others,
How does the 3 speed Sturmey Archer feel like on the Merc/Brommie etc? Do you feel it lackin in any way? I usually am in 7th gear in my 8 speed DT.
As far as I can tell, most people agree that it is a quality bike with good riding characteristics.
My commute is probably somewhat different from that of most of the people here. The train is not a commuter train, it just happens to run where I need it to run at a time that works for me. I will have a reserved seat and the number of passengers per car is pretty small. Also, the station(s) I will disembark at are not busy commuter depots. So, I may not have to put as much of a premium on the folded size as others. In that case, the Swift might be right for me. -amitkulz
I personally don't find the three speed of the Sturmey-Archer limiting. It might be for someone who is used to snapping the derailleur into a extremely low gear everytime you go up a hill. I live in an area where there is alot of hills that start steep right from a complete stop just before starting to climb it. I have had both derailleur and now the internal hub gears on all my bikes and even still ride the same hills since I left my kiddie bikes behind many years ago. I am also fast approuching my fifties and is now "retired" from road biking. I only have 2 folders with AW three speed gearing and a ancient Phillips 3 speed nonfolder at present. I find these bikes very fine for the types of hills encountered here. I just have to make sure they are geared properly at purchase in order to face the terrain around here. Each bike has a mid-forties (44t-46t) chainring and about a 14t-16t rear cog. I may not have the range that a derailleur bike has, but what I have is far more satisfying since I can shift it when stopped-great for starting from complete stops. I tend to ride slower now and when I encounter hills, stay in my saddle and gently pump up the hill (especially if I am due at a business meeting). No problems encountered on or off the bike.
As for the folded size of the bike, I would go for the smallest folder you find appealing. I would stay in the 20 inch and below range for possible use on a bus, another train where it might be more crowded, small car or taxi, etc. On a folding bike, you will encounter many situations where the bike will be fitted into tiny nitches, or even bagged and attempted to pass for luggage. My Dahon and my Brompton has been used in a manner far beyond anything I thought of when I purchased these bikes. Being 20" and 16" respectively, each bike was able to adapt to the unforseen situation.
As for selection of a given make or model, you will find as I and many on this forum that you will probably not stop at one folder, but instead find yourself buying another one that fits your needs of a particular riding style at a given time. I should know-now I have 2 that overlap yet satisfy different needs at any one time.
ajmancus
As for the folded size of the bike, I would go for the smallest folder you find appealing. I would stay in the 20 inch and below range for possible use on a bus, another train where it might be more crowded, small car or taxi, etc. On a folding bike, you will encounter many situations where the bike will be fitted into tiny nitches, or even bagged and attempted to pass for luggage. My Dahon and my Brompton has been used in a manner far beyond anything I thought of when I purchased these bikes. Being 20" and 16" respectively, each bike was able to adapt to the unforseen situation.
That's a good point. Thanks for the insight
As for selection of a given make or model, you will find as I and many on this forum that you will probably not stop at one folder, but instead find yourself buying another one that fits your needs of a particular riding style at a given time. I should know-now I have 2 that overlap yet satisfy different needs at any one time.
Yes, it does seem to be quite addiction. I'm considering starting off with a less expensive model until I'm sure that I can make this commuting plan work. Then, I can upgrade to something more upscale.
ajmancus
I was told that <a href="http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bike_Shops/NorthRoad_1.htm">North Road Cycles </a>, Raleigh, NC 919-828-8999 stock Pashley Moultons. Give them a call and see if they stock any others you might like.
@amitkulz -- Thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to check it out.
amitkulz
I personally don't find the three speed of the Sturmey-Archer limiting. It might be for someone who is used to snapping the derailleur into a extremely low gear everytime you go up a hill. I live in an area where there is alot of hills that start steep right from a complete stop just before starting to climb it. I have had both derailleur and now the internal hub gears on all my bikes and even still ride the same hills since I left my kiddie bikes behind many years ago. I am also fast approuching my fifties and is now "retired" from road biking. I only have 2 folders with AW three speed gearing and a ancient Phillips 3 speed nonfolder at present. I find these bikes very fine for the types of hills encountered here. I just have to make sure they are geared properly at purchase in order to face the terrain around here. Each bike has a mid-forties (44t-46t) chainring and about a 14t-16t rear cog. I may not have the range that a derailleur bike has, but what I have is far more satisfying since I can shift it when stopped-great for starting from complete stops. I tend to ride slower now and when I encounter hills, stay in my saddle and gently pump up the hill (especially if I am due at a business meeting). No problems encountered on or off the bike.
Thanks for the feedback, ff!
I am saving up for the Mercbike, and I will ask for the same configuration, I don't want to change anything later. i.e 44-46 chainring and 14-16 rear cog.
wpflem
Thanks for the empathy -- it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this. ;)
PS: I live in the Raleigh-Durham area, and I am having a hard time finding bike shops that stock folders. Does anyone know of any in the NC Piedmont?
Your best bet is to go look for Dahon dealers in your area starting at:
(http://www.dahon.com/locator/nadealers.htm).
They will do a search if you pop in your zip code. The other brands such as Birdy, Brompton, Moulton, Bike Fridy etc. will list US dealers at their website. Precious few bike shops in the USA will have more than a folder or two.
amitkulz
If you want a smaller chainring, you will need to be prepared to shorten the chain as necessary. I found that my son's roadbike chainrings have the same hole spacing and number of webs, so I pinched his 39 tooth inner ring and fitted it alongside the 52 tooth standard one. Ive seen discussions on Brompton forums where people manually change from large to smaller chainring as needed when hill climbing or riding into strong headwinds. I thought it would work fine, but it didn't because the chain tensioner derailed the chain when on the small ring. Folks say that the Brompton tensioner will handle a 20 tooth difference, but I can assure you that the Merc one won't. It would work fine if I shortened the chain, but then I'd need to settle for always being on the small ring.
I find that as you swap to the small chainring, the tensioner jockey wheels move apart and the chain is nolonger guided properly and derails. This is only a function of chain length though, a couple of links less and it wouldn't happen.
Where are you based Amitkultz?
By the way, I don't think you could fit a larger rear sprocket with this tensioner either. The clearance between the fixed jockey wheel and the sprocket is JUST enough for the chain to pass through and mount the sprocket. A larger sprocket and they would be coliding, I'd say.
The way to go for lower gearing is smaller front ring and shorter chain. Before you start look at the angle and jockey wheeel spacing of the tensioner, photograph it maybe and then strive to keep the relationship with the smaller sprocket and a shorter chain.
EvilV,
I am in Louisiana, definitely not bike friendly country! But I see more cycles out here in last three months. And I see a lot more of the motorcycles. Maybe its because I am now noticing them. But its also I think because of the high gas prices. When I bought my Ninja to work, some people told me that they are picking up motorcycles (Vulcan 8-900cc, entry level Harley, entry level Virago), and trying to sell their cars/trucks. The sleeping elephant is now being awakened. The little man is now going to survival mode. I have vowed to myself, to avoid buying a car again if possible. The guys who fix your cars are shady for the most part, I only found one fellow who was a student like me, who told me nothing but plain unvarnished, honest to goodness truth. Damn lying culture we have sunk too, shafting the others is the name of the game.
Background for asking about special chainring/cog setup on future Merc
I wanted to get a Brompton or a Dahon Vitesse D5 initially but held off. The Brompton due to its insanely high price, and the Dahon due to its delayed availability. For Dahons, if I cannot get a whole bike in time (3-6 weeks is unreasonable for a commodity bike, which is what Dahon Vitesse is IMHO), how can I get special order parts if needed? At least that was my impression just before I bought the Downtube.
I treat Downtube very roughly, and I bought it solely because of Wavshrdr's, BruceMetras, RafaelG et al comments. I value their comments more than any company brochure. I won't stick with some brand blindly, they got to earn my business (Wavshrdr put it nicely when responding about Dahon vs Brompton). Again, I am thinking about Merc solely because of Wavshrdr and your experience. I lurked for a while, 1-2 months, reading posts off and on before starting to post.
I just want to get a Merc (or a Brompton) for those times when I will have to travel to big cities for conferences in next 2-3 years. Will allow me to stay 3-7 miles away from conferece hotel while saving $25-75 a DAY!!! One of our annual conferences is a week long! And we grad students don't usually get reimbursed the whole amount. I feel that there is no option for me but a Brompton or its clone Merc. The Downtube won't cut it, and I have realized that people have multiple folders here so I will get one too! (and one more and then one more and then...lol)
Right now, I don't think it is worth it to spend a $850-1000 for a 5+ speed Merc (the new model Wavshrdr drives) because of my cash situation. But I might scrimp towards a $500-600 deal tops. So I thought I should get a model which can handle Atlanta type hilly country. I don't remember reading where you are from, and so am not sure if you have been to Atlanta in Georgia. Up and down, up and down. I don't have cash for customization later, just routine maintenance. I like to keep things stock, as far as humanly possible! lol... Believe me, I have never ridden a bike with gears in my life prior to Downtube. When I stopped riding bikes in the late 1980's the derauillers were too expensive in my neck of the woods, and so I knew only single speeds. I never even knew before 2-3 months ago that there was such a thing as internal hubs! The Downtube is good for around town, and longer rides. IMO the Merc is most bang for the buck in really cramped situations…
I really appreciate your detailed response and trying to caution me!
Also I haven't had time to digest the technical stuff yet. I will try to order Merc with the correct setup by asking the merchant for his recommendation, and explaining my needs.
What setup would you (and others) recommend if I have to get a Merc and it is offered in a 3 speed Sturmey Archer? Should I swap out to a 5+ speed internal hub or try to juggle with the chainring / cog?
Thanks
EvilV
Amitkulz -
I live across the pond in Northern England.
I gather from the fact that you are a grad student that you are young, so I'm assuming that you're strong...
I think I told you that I am 55 years old, so I am a bit less strong than I was at your age. There are certainly times on the Merc when I've had to dismount on really steep hills. A 45 inch bottom gear is not the same as a 23 inch bottom gear on a mountain bike. I have done lengthy tours in hilly terrain on my mountain bikes in the last year or two, but I know the current gearing on the Merc would oblige me to get off and push in the same terrain. Last year I crossed Britain on the Coast to Coast route which takes you over the Lake District mountains and the Pennines and involves about seven thousand feet of climbing in 129 miles. Much of the climbing is somewhat steep, hard climbs over a couple of miles. These would be hard work on the Merc, but you're more or less as fast up hills like that if you just get off and walk.
This page shows the profiles of the British sea to sea route:
http://www.c2c-guide.co.uk/profiles.htm
This page has some quite good pictures of the countryside:
http://www.c2c-guide.co.uk/offroad.htm
Maybe I missed some posts of yours earlier on about the Downtube. I looked at that bike yesterday on the web and thought it looked a great bargain at the prices Dr Yan is charging. It doesn't fold quite as small as the Brompton / Merc clone, but it was a greater range of gears, whioch for hills is what you want. If you have a Downtube and don't need a folded size of 22x23x10 inches (Brompton /Merc size) why not save your cash and stick with that?
As for the Merc question at the end of your post - In the UK it is only available as a three speed with the SA hub. I know there is a six speed version which Wavshrder owns. I expect that is achieved with two rear cogs and a derailier type change in addition to the SA hub - that's what Brompton do. A five speed internal hub if one was available would give smaller gear steps which is easier on the legs, but it might not give a greater range of ratios overall.
I use this page to easily calculate the range of gears and their ratios:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
When you do the calculation the browser opens a new window with the results. Be advised that you should close that window if you want to do another calculation with new values in the first window. If you don't close it, the answers page stays the same.
amitkulz
Thanks, sorry for the late reply!
I will be 30 next month.
I have sat down and done the tradeoff calculation many times. And I feel that it is worth it to get a Merc. The DT is great for longer rides, and I probably won't get another bike for long distance for a few years. We do a levee ride on the Mississippi river which is anywhere from 10+ miles. And also, local 'soft' Mountain Bike trails are a good test of the DT. But when I need to go short distances, quickly fold up and sit inconspicuously in a class, nothing comes close to the Brompton/Merc, eh?
Thanks!
spambait11
But when I need to go short distances, quickly fold up and sit inconspicuously in a class, nothing comes close to the Brompton/Merc, eh?
That's what a Xootr scooter is for.
Are your grad classes that large such that you can't bring a folded bike in inconspicuously, even in a bag?
amitkulz
That's what a Xootr scooter is for.
Are your grad classes that large such that you can't bring a folded bike in inconspicuously, even in a bag?
I don't like the Xootr scooter, that is a kid's toy, and I will never be seen riding in one :)
Seriously, the thing is cheap but the fun factor with a bike is not there. I don't feel any fun when I do ride one. Yes, I have ridden something like it, I don't know what brand it was, and I gave it away to some kid. I picked it up at the corner when somebody threw it for pickup. I have tried roller blades and a skateboard too. My roller blades are a pain to put on/off, and as for the skateboards, I never rode one when I was a kid, so I am at the falling off stage right now :) I roller blade for fun when somebody is willing to do a group ride.
To tell you the truth, I won't attend any classes anymore as of this week. I just have to finish my work, and get out of school, that would take a minimum of two years. I don't have a office or anything unlike some others, so I have to keep it by my side always whenever I am in the lab or somebody's office. I have had two bikes stolen from me, one was a new bike, another was a auction junk piece :mad: I have tried wiht the Downtube but it is too bulky. I agree wholeheartedly with folder_fanatic, the Merc/Brommie would make a (terrific!!) compact package which just can't be beaten. If tomorrow something else comes up, I would seriously consider it too! I am watching for more Merc/Brommie threads.
amit
folder fanatic
You are far more luckier than I, amitkulz. When I was going through the univerisity and my first position, I had to give up cycling because of storage problems and my principal plus the master teachers would balk at tarnishing my "professional image" whatever that is. Now that folding bikes (especially the Brompton) are part of my commuting life-and I am out of grade school teaching for good-I can feel free to continue to cycle and use alternative transportation as needed. Now THAT is true freedom for sure.
amitkulz
You are far more luckier than I, amitkulz. When I was going through the univerisity and my first position, I had to give up cycling because of storage problems and my principal plus the master teachers would balk at tarnishing my "professional image" whatever that is. Now that folding bikes (especially the Brompton) are part of my commuting life-and I am out of grade school teaching for good-I can feel free to continue to cycle and use alternative transportation as needed. Now THAT is true freedom for sure.
ff,
Yes, there is still a big 'image' problem with bikes, as in, it is for kids or how do you shop for groceries or what do you do when it rains or... But I do have a reputation for being a bit weird.:D
I brought the two bikes as single speeds earlier. A new Wal-mart cruiser I bought in 2004 (I believe $60-80, but I don't remember), and other in 2005. I paid very little for the auction piece in 2005, nobody wanted it anyway, I just pushed some Moly grease in the right places and my 10W-30 Amsoil synthetic motor oil on the chain for lube. I can understand someone stealing a new bike, but what I don't get is somebody stealing a old single speed.
My conclusion: A folder is a necessity for avoiding stealing in campus apts :(
ajmancus
Just in case you were looking for a little closure for this thread...
After more deliberation (and speaking with Amtrak), I decided to stick with getting the Swift. Several officials said that the train I will be riding would accomodate the folded bike with no problem. Since that was longer a concern, I was persuaded by the less upright riding position, the fact that it seems to be pretty easy to customize, and, to be honest, the aesthetics (especially after seeing James' pictures with the drop bars). I ordered it today, and I'm now checking the UPS website hourly to follow it's progress. :)
Thanks to everyone who offered advice; I feel much more comfortable with my purchase having touched base with people who actually know something about folders.
Cheers.
Anthony
amitkulz
Good choice there! Let us know how it feels.
Btw, what choice of components did you order?
maunakea
gruppo! gruppo!
ajmancus
Good choice there! Let us know how it feels.
Btw, what choice of components did you order?
I will do that.
For now, I just went with the stock package. The reason is that I'm so new to this, I didn't really even know where to start. My guess is that after riding it for a while, I'll start to want to change/upgrade components. So, look for me on the Swift Folder thread, I'm sure I'll be hitting you up for advice again.
amitkulz
I will do that.
For now, I just went with the stock package. The reason is that I'm so new to this, I didn't really even know where to start. My guess is that after riding it for a while, I'll start to want to change/upgrade components. So, look for me on the Swift Folder thread, I'm sure I'll be hitting you up for advice again.
I am in the same boat as you, don't ask me anything!!! The others are more knowledgeable than me.