General Cycling Discussion - Prices

Everyone (well, not everyone) knows you should get your bike at a bike store, not a discount store. It's also accepted that you should find a bike store staffed with people of character, after all, it could become a menage a trois, or "love triangle:"
you, your bicycle and the people at the bike shop.

But just as things start to get cozy in the relationship, you start finding out that you don't have to pay $3 for patch kits, $2 each for CO2 cartridges, or $10 for a chain tool.

Doesn't this undermine trust in a relationship? Is this something we just accept, like the faults of a spouse? I am not ready to accept it yet.

If I feel like it, I will "cheat" on my bike shop. I will go anywhere I have to to beat unreasonable prices, as long as quality doesn't suffer. And so far, I've done well.

Some components i bought at the LBS are much cheaper on the "net", but i try to get equal with it.
For example; at my bikeshop HS-33 costs about 225$, on the internet 175$, here`s the difference to large so i purchase the brakes on the net.
It`s nice supporting the LBS, but it has to be fair on both sides and not only yours!

Originally posted by Pete Clark
If I feel like it, I will "cheat" on my bike shop.

OOOOhh! I feel like such a ****! ;)

I'm in the same category of looking for a better deal on the add-ons. But my thinking is that if I'm buying a maintenance item or something I want setup correctly like a bike computer, I will pay a little extra...If I'm buying shorts or a lock, and I can save a few bucks, why not?

This is a curious phenomenon, and one that I have no experience with. As a shop employee, I can not only get a stellar price, but I can also maintain my nice, warm-fuzzy relationship with the aforementioned shop. This is a happy arangement for both me and my employer, as all the money they feed me more likely than not will be immedieately pluged back into the shop. Perhaps this is why they hired me. They know that I am a hopeless gear head, and rather weak willed when it comes to new toys, and they, not I, will profit from my employment there. I can almost justify it by telling myself that I'd buy it all anyway, but now I get a good price. Almost.

In any case, employee discounts are still cool. We should all be so lucky.

I just reread my last post, and realized that it sounds a lot like bragging. Though not my intention, I suppose it sort of was. I doubt it will weigh too heavily on my conscience, but still...

I wish I could get an employee type discount...I'd be bragging all the time.;)

Going back to the LBS vs Mailorder debate...I bought my bike from an LBS and take it back there for maintenance issues. Also, if they have a part that is closely priced to what I can get from a mail order place I'll buy it from the bike shop. But if I need a part and there is a BIG price difference than I'll get it from the mail order place. Do I feel guilty, no...as much as I like to help out my LBS I also have to look out for my best interest.

Funnily enough I work in a so called Discount Bike Shop - Halfords in the UK. I've been there 8 years, and from day one I've been saying to head office that we need to be in a position to at least order decent stuff in, I've always been told no it won't sell etc....

They finally relented and my store has some of the best sales figures in the company (450 stores). This is because I bend rules and order stuff in which I know will sell. The knock on effect is that more "Enthusiast Bikers" come in and spend more money :).

The way I look at it now is that when I started working there I wouldn't have bought anything from there, now I will and do.

I still use LBS/Internet/Mail Order supplies based on price.

Originally posted by toolfreak
It`s nice supporting the LBS, but it has to be fair on both sides and not only yours!
That's the way I see it, too, Mark. I would like to buy everything from my bike dealer who's been good to me, but charging twice or three times what I might have to pay elsewhere is no longer being good to me.

Originally posted by LightBoy
I just reread my last post, and realized that it sounds a lot like bragging.

To me it just sounded like a description of a fortunate situation. I'm glad you have a job you can enjoy, and some side benefits. If only more people could be that happy! :)

Originally posted by Campag Fetish Boy
[B]They finally relented and my store has some of the best sales figures in the company (450 stores). This is because I bend rules and order stuff in which I know will sell. The knock on effect is that more "Enthusiast Bikers" come in and spend more money :).

Excellent!

I go from one LBS to another, until I found the item price to my budget, then I buy the merchandize

Wait for the sales. One big LBS has a "50% off everything" weekend every 3-4 months. Another has "30-70% off everything" week at least a couple of times a year. It does kinda make you wonder what their regular margins are.

I know, and I usually do my buying spree during the winter, that way I got to haggle a lot on these LBS, they tend to sell items at cost sometimes,

I will shop around 3 or 4 LBS's in the area, and only purchase on the internet if i can save more then 10 - 20%. If i can purchase a new toy for $60 at the LBS or $50 on line, i'll spend the extra $10 and the LBS.

I have also noticed that my fav LBS regulary gives me discounts on just about everything i purchase, just the other day i purchased $59 Fox riding shorts, but the LBS owner gave them to me for $50 even, as "im such a good customer" :)

The place i purchased me first "real" mountain bike just went under last year, i think it had something to do with them able to have 50% off sales every spring. If i know there making 50% margin on price they normal have, theres no way im going to support that. I love cycling, but im not going to pay $1500 for a $1000 bike i can pick up down the road, ouch!

Lightboy, i was offered a job at my LBS, i refused as there was no way i could afford working in a bike shop. The pay is higher then what i currently make, but i would be bringing home a lot less cash, and alot more gear i dont need :) Plus the hours sucked, i cant wake up before 1am ;)

Silly wabbits...

Bike shops don't make money selling BIKES(at least not much anyways), the money comes from selling parts and accesories. That's where the bigger margins are.

No one opens a shop with the idea of becoming the next Bill Gates. If your LBS guy drives a BMW chances are there are "outside forces"(e.g. family money, previous career savings) at work. Most LBS owners are bike geeks, just like you and me! They generally have a passion for the sport and want to be a part of the cycling community. When was the last time you saw Supergo or Pricepoint sponsor a local tour, ride, or race(unless you live near one and then I suppose *they* ARE your LBS)?

It's a common misperception that all mailorder is always cheaper than the LBS. I can flip through any number of catalogs(Performance, Nashbar, CC, Excel) and see that our prices are the SAME and sometimes lower on "regularly priced" items. Our customers pay tax, but skip the shipping charges.
They can try stuff on, have items installed, pull stuff out of the box and actually touch the goods before laying down cold hard cash.

Perhaps the biggest reasons to patronize your local LBS are the intangible ones. If your LBS is a good one, be good to it. Many of our customers just like to come hang out and talk "bike". They often ask for advice before making a purchase. They like to share race/crash/vacation pictures and stories with us. They use our parking lot as a place to meet for group rides. We pump up their flat tires, sell them Clif bars "on credit", and refill their water bottles if they stop in during a ride.

There have been times in my cycling-life when I have NOT had an LBS job. I still went to bike shops, asked for advice, went on group rides and plunked down full-retail(knowing what cost was)because I understood that the owner still had rent/utilites/salaries/taxes to pay.

Sorry to write a book, obviously I feel passionately about the subject. I do think there ARE appropriate times to use mailorder(clearance items that are below "cost", items that are not available locally), but generally I'll choose to keep my money "local".

Thanks for listening(and no I don't shop at Wal-Mart. Don't get me started on Wal-Mart...)

Originally posted by Campag Fetish Boy
Funnily enough I work in a so called Discount Bike Shop - Halfords in the UK. I've been there 8 years, and from day one I've been saying to head office that we need to be in a position to at least order decent stuff in, I've always been told no it won't sell etc....



Hi CFB,

I'm really impressed with Halfords newer better specced image, they have some really cool stuff, and a nice new Downhill Team to boot!!!

I think I'd go for the cheaper option everytime, be it internet, or LBS....sorry, that's me 2p's worth.

Rich ;)

I have had several bike shops bend over backwards for me. That seems to be the norm for the folks who work in them. Bike shops seem to be the last place left on earth where people don't seem to care as much about making a buck as they do helping me.

BUT...

It's obvious to me that cycling is considered a sport that well-to-do people spend their spare cash on, rather than a necessary means of transportation. Anyone who can afford a $1000 bike, $100 helmet, $300 in clothing, etc. and rides only half the year can also afford the prices. More power to them, I wish I could, but that's not me. In fact, I am probably in the minority on these forums in the respect that I can barely afford to cycle at all.

I had a friend go looking for a bike. The LBS rep treated him like he didn't matter. To the bike shop, he probably didn't, because he couldn't afford the prices (yet.) So there are two sides to the coin.

Pete,
Sorry to hear that your friend was not treated with the respect he deserved. I hope he does not give up on cycling and will possibly look for another bike shop.

My motto is "everybody's money is green"; whether they are looking at one of our $70 used bikes or a $200 BMX bike or a $2000 race bike. Every customer deserves to be treated well.

About shops: they vary widely. My last shop was in an affluent area in a large city. Most of our customers were well-heeled "enthusiasts". We sold lots of $$$ road bikes to people doing "charity rides" and local triathlons.

The shop I am in now is on a busy street in a small town. Our customer base is more varied. I have to say I love it. We have many customers who do not drive cars; whether for financial reasons, medical limitations, or loss of driving privleges(hey! where'd the spell-check go???). We also are close to three schools, so we get the 'after school' crowd.

The goal(as it should be for ANY small business)is to make sure that each customer leaves feeling satisfied.

I think it's sad that bikes are only considered "toys" and "recreation" in our culture. I too use my bike as transportation, so I know that feeling you get when motorists are looking at you like some kind of freak or non-human("I drive-therefore I am"?).

I'm wordy today. Better get out the bike and ride to the libray and the post office and...

Ever make up errands just so you can spend more time on your bike? :)

Originally posted by poptart
Better get out the bike and ride to the libray and the post office and...

Ever make up errands just so you can spend more time on your bike? :)

Enjoy your time on the bike and think of us poor souls stuck in cubicles.

Originally posted by poptart
I think it's sad that bikes are only considered "toys" and "recreation" in our culture. I too use my bike as transportation, so I know that feeling you get when motorists are looking at you like some kind of freak or non-human("I drive-therefore I am"?)

Ever make up errands just so you can spend more time on your bike? :)
Good post, Poptart.

I would like to see more bike shops treat cycling as a valid form of getting around, even encourage it. They might be suprised at the extra business. Look at Henry Ford. He transformed the automobile from a luxury item into a common person's vehicle. The expanded customer base made him rich.

There's no reason XXX-marts have to dominate the low-income bike market with their dangerous machines. Anyway, I've seen $400 bikes sold at XXX-marts! None for me, thanks!

Maybe if they invented an "ACME Instant Bicycle: just add a drop of water and, voila! Completely assembled!" ;)

Originally posted by poptart

Ever make up errands just so you can spend more time on your bike? :)
Don't we all? My first class this morning was less than a block away, but I left early so I could take the senic route along the river. Sure it was an extra two miles, but...well, you know.

Well, I bought my bike from my LBS, and I have spent quite a bit of money there on upgrade. I know I pay more for components through them, but they will install them. I could probably do some of the work myself, but I feel more comfortable letting more experienced hands do it better and faster.

As a CPA who used to consult for small businesses, I can assure you that your LBS is not getting rich just because they charge prices that are a little higher. A small shop, even a largish shop, has very high fixed costs. Also, because they order from distributors in smaller quantities, they pay higher wholesale prices than chains or higher volume Internet retailers like Nashbar or Performance, etc.. I would venture to guess that the owners of most LBSs are NOT riding around in Mercedes and Lexus automobiles. They have to make some kind of profit just to stay in business.

I buy what I can from my LBS. If they have something I need and it is at least reasonable, I will buy it from them. Even if the price is several dollars more than I can get it online, I will buy from the LBS for convenience. This afternoon, for instance, I plan to stop by to pick up a VistaLite setup at the same price Nashbar sells it for. On the other hand, I will not pay ANYONE $50-100 for shorts or jerseys. Sometimes I will get the LBS to special order something. But some less expensive items they probably don't make enough to even make it worth their while. So I basically try to balance my purchases, giving the LBS as much business as I can.
FWIW,
Raymond

Originally posted by Pete Clark
...I am probably in the minority on these forums in the respect that I can barely afford to cycle at all.


Well, it's at least a minority of two. If I'm lucky enough to get Social Security next year, at age 62.5 (how do they figure these things out?!), I'll still have less than twice what I make now: $619.99 a month, my retirement payment. That's IT. Rent, food, everything comes out of that.

I could probably get some kind of a job. But my conviction is that I did not retire in order to get a job. I got completely fed up with the work world such as I knew it, after forty-plus years of it.

So I squeeze by, I ride my bikes, which I acquired, like everything else, before I retired--and I will not be buying big-ticket items from my (very helpful) LBS or mail-order anytime soon.

I've got an interesting opinion on this. As a shop employee, I don't find fault with people getting their stuff from mail-order. I can empathize with someone who wants an XTR remote shifter or whatever and can mail-order it for 30% less than what they can buy it from us, especially if it's not something we have in stock and we have to order it as well. What really pisses me off is when they bring in their parts to have us install them and then bi*ch when we charge them labor. The funny thing is that with the labor and shipping, it comes out to be the same price as if they bought it from us in the first place. How do people like this think we stay in business?

This however was not my point on this subject. As a person who loves to work on bikes, I usually (prior to LBS employment) bought things mail-order, but purchased new bikes, frames, shoes...etc. at the shops. I also spread my money around at 3 or 4 of the LBS. I always wondered why no one was making me a good deal on a regular basis. Now that I work in a shop, I see first hand how important our regular customers are, I also have learned why the people who spread it around are "traitors". If you commit to one shop, they will take care of you. If you spread it around (including mail-order), they won't do you any favors. It's a decision you must make, do you want the deal right here right now, or do you want the long-term deal?

I hope this makes sense, because as I read it, I'm not sure if my point comes across as well as it does in my head.

Later Gator
Boomer:p

Originally posted by vfboomer
If you commit to one shop, they will take care of you. If you spread it around (including mail-order), they won't do you any favors. It's a decision you must make, do you want the deal right here right now, or do you want the long-term deal?

I hope this makes sense, because as I read it, I'm not sure if my point comes across as well as it does in my head.

I think you expressed it well, and it's the same as what I figured out, though I don't, and didn't, work in a LBS.

I'm not sure there's any one best solution to the situation. My bike dealer knows I've got things by mail-order from Performance and Nashbar, and he doesn't hold it against me and continues to be helpful and friendly. But I wouldn't blame him for taking the other attitude.

With my money situation I have to find bargains. Like right now at performancebike they have Fox racing Mesa gloves on sale for 18 bucks!!! But I didn't get paid last payday do to some miscommunication/computer/carelessness problems. I am fuming about it right now.
But anyway, when I have the money for my bike I'm gonna go to the shops in Columbia and say, I have x dollars, and I am going home with a bike today, and I wan't a bike-lock as part of the deal, gimme your best price. I'm hoping my plan works. I might bring someone along to play devil's advocate.

Originally posted by fubar5
...when I have the money for my bike I'm gonna go to the shops in Columbia and say, I have x dollars, and I am going home with a bike today, and I wan't a bike-lock as part of the deal, gimme your best price. I'm hoping my plan works. I might bring someone along to play devil's advocate.
Practice ahead of time so that you can say that and it carries the notion "And I'll probably be out of the mood tomorrow!" I bet it will work. Good luck! (And on the exam, too.)

Originally posted by vfboomer
I always wondered why no one was making me a good deal on a regular basis. Now that I work in a shop, I see first hand how important our regular customers are, I also have learned why the people who spread it around are "traitors".
Are you serious, vfboomer? I've worked in customer service and I always assumed I was serving the customer, not the other way around. If I wanted their business, I had to be better than the guys across the street.

Patronizing small businesses is something I try to do, also. I agree that sometimes loyalty to a local business is more important than flocking to the cheapest high-volume dealer and leaving the mom and pop stores to wither and die. In fact, I remember getting lots of nice perks that way, with a smile and a wink. That's how the number "13" got the name, "baker's dozen."

But family businesses like that knew how to attract customers by
their savvy, down-to-earth community business skills. They went after new faces, they never called someone a "traitor" because they bought something elswhere. They just welcomed everyone with that, "Hey, good to see you again, where ya been, Smith?"
attitude. I would never give my loyalty to a shop that thought I owed it to them.

But your point does carry merit, given that today, too many businesses are driven by fierce competition over low prices, which
favors the success of the biggest and largest companies, not necessarily the best companies.

But I still won't pay $50 for a flannel shirt, even if the mechanic does give me a free extra service. If that makes me "Benedict Arnold," than so be it.

Good points, vfboomer. I probably spend 95% of my bike money, a considerable sum over the last few months, at one LBS, where I have been treated very well. Even though most of the people there are very serious cyclists and racers, they have been very kind and encouraging to me. When I first showed up there, I was a middle aged fat guy looking for a hybrid to commute 20 miles roundtrip. They didn't laugh. As I learned more and got used to riding, I would ask their advice about upgrades. Of course, they were always glad to get business, but a couple of times they suggested that a particular upgrade might not be worthwhile. I felt like they treated me fairly and with respect.

I also buy a few things from a couple of other LBSs closer to my house, but just little odds and ends that I know my shop doesn't have. For instance, my regular LBS carries only Specialized tires as their "run of the mill" every day type, plus a few lines of higher end racing and mtb tires. I tried the Specialize, and I think I prefer Continental, so I will buy them from the store near my house that carries Continental. Now the stores I patronize lightly know me, but they don't offer me a discount, nor do I expect it. My regular LBS started knocking something off, without making any kind of announcement. But when I get to the register, my buddy says "That'll be (some amount slightly less than marked)." It was a little joke for a while because I would naively say "That's all? But it's marked $$." To which he would roll his eyes and say, "Can't I give you a little break?" Now I've gotten used to it, but I'll sometimes still say "That's all?" and he will grin and say "I hate when you say that!"

So when I got ready to pay for the VistaLite I mentioned, I kept my mouth shut when the price was less that he had quoted earlier and less than Nashbar, I might add.
Regards,
Raymond

I feel I need to clarify my use of the term "traitor", that may have been a little too harsh. How about, "non-regular". I do agree that the shop needs to go the extra mile to get customers and more importantly to try to keep them coming back. I realized long ago that bike shop employees sometimes fall into "snob mode" when dealing with new riders and it's something I've personnally tried to avoid.

What my point is for instance, I had a guy in my shop this past Sat., I was dealing with him for well over an hour, fitting him, letting him test ride a series of bikes, doing what I'm supposed to do to sell him a bike. We didn't have the shoes he wanted, so we made a call to the other bike shop in town, found out they had them and sent the customer to the other shop (To get the customer what he wanted-talk about customer service - sending them to another shop)

No problem, he ended up coming back and buying the bike from us, great! But when he went to the other shop in town to buy shoes, he also bought pedals and a bike rack for his car. Granted, we didn't have the shoes he wanted, but we did carry the same exact pedals and rack. We found this out because he asked US to put the pedals on his new bike, and we also realized his cleat was not properly attached to his shoe. Yes, we did take care of him and make things right for him, but we did charge him full price for th h20 cages and bottles that we usually always throw in for free! Did we do that intentionally, No, but we were a little peterbed (sp?) as we are looking at the exact set of pedals in our display case. After he left, we were talking about this and just laughed about it. Did we come out ahead in the long run, yes, but we had to work our as*es off in order to make the sale, then fix the other shops mistake. I guess that's just part of the game.

I do however feel that small shops can't compete with mail-order, where we stand out is customer service. Notice "service" that's our priority. For some customers it's easy, for others you have to fight for it. Inevitably, the easy customers will get a better deal. Just part of human nature. Customers that make it hard are those shopping around and bringing in stuff they buy from M.O.

To summarize, please support your LBS. If you buy M.O. we understand, but you deal with putting it on your bike. If you can't, don't expect the LBS to do it for free. You've just stabbed the knife and you are turning it when you complain about the labor charge.

That all I had to get off my chest! May seem harse, but I'm really sympathetic and compassionate about bikes. I fully understand customer service and I wish more people would understand LBS loyalty. It easy when it works both ways and you meet in the middle.

Later Gator
Boomer:beer:

Originally posted by vfboomer
To summarize, please support your LBS. If you buy M.O. we understand, but you deal with putting it on your bike. If you can't, don't expect the LBS to do it for free. You've just stabbed the knife and you are turning it when you complain about the labor charge.
Anyone who brings in a part they bought elsewhere and asks someone else to put it on for free (unless it's your significant other) is crazier than they look! Do people really do that? Dag!
:confused:
Get their business card and "patronize" their business. Let them know up front that you don't expect to have to pay. I wonder how much service you'll get...

Pete,

You'd be surprized, no embarrassed for the whole cycling community, how many times that happens.

Later Gator
Boomer:(

Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er

I got paid and still have no money.... :)

I bet I know where all that money is too....:eek:

Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er


My girlfriend's pocket?

That's a good place.

Rainman,
Sounds like you got it made dude!!!!!

It varies for me.

I go to my LBS looking for something simple: 700 x 26 tires, wire bead. They don't have it. They can order it though about $22. A package of skabs or some park tire boots? Nope. I go to Performance - can get a kevlar bead tire in that size for $16, plus some nice shorts on special for $40, they have 4-5 cyclometers with cadence. Dang, I drop a C-note on mail order in no time at all. And I feel like a crumb.

My LBS has bent over backwards to help my wife with shoes and saddles, they swung a sweet deal for one of her co-workers on a new bike after giving him some bad info on pricing. The other LBS gets my club some good deals on gear and glasses but he is a 30 minute drive for me. Man, it is tough. I love having a great selection at my fingertips and shopping in the comfort of my skivvies. But the LBS are the strongest advocates for the sport in my community. I feel like I'm abandoning friends.

It's good to get some input from you LBS types, to give us the other side of the story. I guess it takes all kinds!

I try to patronize my LBS, but sometimes they don't have the items available or the price difference is so great (would you believe nearly twice as much for a computer mount?)that I just have to mail order.

Now the other thing is that the mailorder place I usually use (Mountain Equipment Co-op) is opening a store here next year, so I guess then they will be an LBS too. They are an extremely socially and environmentaly conscious organization, so it makes sense to support them, and their store prices are as good as their catalogue prices. I'm wondering how that will impact the existing shops.

Originally posted by Ba-Dg-Er


Uhm no... it's not... not at all.... because it's quickly being spent on something I don't want.

Well, at least she likes what your money is being spent on....She does right?:(

Ooooohh, that is NOT good:( :( :(

Here's my dilemma. The big mail-order company is one of my local bike shops. They're located in a big shopping center, easy parking, big inventory, buyers club. They're friendly, helpful, take back anything that you're dissatisfied with. I have no complaints. Then there's what I consider the LBS. Been there since before I moved to the area (16 years ago, all others have come and gone). It's run by people whose lives are literally cycling. It down by the university, hard to get to on a narrow backstreet. It's not a big place, but they know their sh*t, and when you take something in for service, it's been done right. I've had them do plenty of maintenance on parts I've bought elsewhere, never had the gall to ask them to install stuff bought elsewhere.

The mail-order company gets my business for things like inexpensive, no-name jerseys, tubes, and other incidentals. The LBS gets my business for service, and when I want parts that I need advice to make the right purchase, and/or want follow-up support for (such as installation advice) afterwards. The price difference, even though I don't have to pay postage, isn't usually that much.

Roadbuzz,

That's no dilemma! Give your LBS the business. They have served you well, their prices are fair, and they know their, uhum ... stuff! You are blessed, and they should be too.