Advocacy & Safety - A legal question

Now i know its illegal, but when i'm in high traffic area, i always ride against the flow of traffic. I just don't trust using a small rear-view mirror. anyone else do this?

That REALLY dangerous in central NC. Drivers would have a difficult time gauging your speed, placing you and them at risk. When I'm on fast roads, I'll continue to ride on the right.

Riding against the traffic flow is one of the biggest causes of bike-car collisions.

To better understand why (among other things), I suggest you look up the book Effective Cycling on amazon.com, check out the reviews, and order yourself a copy. It could save your life.

I would never, ever ride against the flow of traffic. Trust me, I've ridden on the busiest streets around my city and I would never ride against traffic even on a residential streets.

It's not only dangerous to you, but it is also dangerous to your fellow cyclist who you might encounter(those who follow the law anyway). You will not only confuse them, but you will also be putting them at a greater risk because you are forcing them to pass you, potentially exposing them to faster traffic on the next lane, confused at that.

Riding against the traffic flow is one of the biggest causes of bike-car collisions. And how about bike-bike collisions?.. I had a few close calls... one cyclist I encountered was so amazingly brainless as to ride a bike at night in a high traffic area against the flow of traffic wearing dark clothes and having zero illumination (no lights, not even reflectors, nothing...) I barely managed to avoid him.

Anyway, cars running into bikes from behind isn't really that frequent a problem, and poor visibility is often a factor. You're certainly safer going with the flow than against it, unless you do some crazy things (have no lights at night for example).

As a driver I'm telling you this is THE worst thing you can do. Especially if there are freeway or other freeway type entrances. When merging in to the traffic drivers look in to their mirrors, over their shoulders in general paying attention more to what's behind them to their left then what is infront. Also there is a psychological factor. It's one thing to catch up and pass a cyclist, it's another to see them comming AT you. Also there is no option of slowing down for a safe spot to pass. Ridding against traffic is THE worst thing you can do.
As a cyclist I cringe everytime I see another cyclist ridding against traffic. Now it means I have to worry about not only cars to my left, but a rider that is flying towards me.

Now i know its illegal, but when i'm in high traffic area, i always ride against the flow of traffic. I just don't trust using a small rear-view mirror. anyone else do this?

Buy a bigger rear view mirror. This practice is completely unfair to other cyclists who ride with traffic. Very selfish approach.

It's actually pretty funny to this this thread in A&S. Amidst all the heated arguments about whether it should be right tire track or centre of the lane with shifting right as faster traffic approaches... :D

I'm gonna start looking for Charles Swartz in the Polk Country obituaries.

Charles, while I have no doubt your death will be painless, I'm concerned your exploding bodyparts may cause a debilitating, painful injury to innocent passersby when they collide with same. Please reconsider your theory.

Now i know its illegal, but when i'm in high traffic area, i always ride against the flow of traffic. I just don't trust using a small rear-view mirror. anyone else do this?

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. This just shows you that even people who should know the law better than anyone else - don't. Or don't believe it anyway and have ridiculous assumptions about bikes and the way they should be ridden... Sad.

Not only are you doing one of the most dangerous things you can do on a bicycle, you are doing it in the cyclist death capital of the USA, Florida. Please be careful, I would recommend that you don't even ride a bike if you are going to continue doing this.

I have always had the question, when does the bike bail out of a dangerous situation? If you are facing traffic and you see a car coming right at you, when does it become obvious to leave the road in a hurry? I imagine facing traffic, the rider wants to watch the car collide with them.
One day in my car, coming home from work a little after 4 PM, in front of me in my lane, was a disturbance. People were suddenly swerving around some object ahead, and when I saw it? A young guy, straddling a bicycle with a broken chain, walking it along in the wrong lane. Not even off the road, combining the slow speed of a pedestrian with the danger of being a wrong way cyclist.

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.
Charles, I commend you on your willingness to learn from others.

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.

Lots of police confuse cyclists with pedestrians. Pedestrians are often nearly invisible at night; walking with their backs to traffic at night on rural roads is associated with higher rates of fatal collisions compared to facing traffic. But at intersections, it's actually safer to walk in the same direction as cars, since drivers entering or crossing at junctions are looking toward the direction of approaching cars and not the other way.

Cyclists in daylight or using lights at night are visible to overtaking drivers and have much less to fear from same-direction traffic, generally, than intersection traffic, and are much safer than pedestrians at night. Cycling with the normal direction flow of vehicle traffic reduces collisions for cyclists and also makes it easier for everybody else sharing the road.

-Steve

I have always had the question, when does the bike bail out of a dangerous situation? If you are facing traffic and you see a car coming right at you, when does it become obvious to leave the road in a hurry? I imagine facing traffic, the rider wants to watch the car collide with them.


Be predictable. Ride with traffic and hold your line, and let passing traffic do the passing. You can't tell by looking whether a vehicle is going to swerve or brake, and your swerving at the last second will just confuse the driver.



One day in my car, coming home from work a little after 4 PM, in front of me in my lane, was a disturbance. People were suddenly swerving around some object ahead, and when I saw it? A young guy, straddling a bicycle with a broken chain, walking it along in the wrong lane. Not even off the road, combining the slow speed of a pedestrian with the danger of being a wrong way cyclist.

If he's not riding, he's a pedestrian. When you're a pedestrian, if there's no sidewalk, the place to be is facing traffic.

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.

Good thinking! Unfortunately, as other will tell you, a lot of law enforcement folks are not really up on transportational cycling.

Instead of the mirror, try practicing a quick shoulder check while keeping a straight line. Perfect this technique in low traffic or even parking lots before jumping in the deep end!

A lot of law enforcement officials are ignorant to the relevant laws concerning cyclists because they don't encounter them enough.

Another reason not to ride against traffic is the closing speed. A car at 40mph is only closing on me at 20mph if I'm going 20mph. On the other hand, if YOU'RE going 20mph the wrong way, its actaully closing in on you at 60mph. Having 2 seconds vs. 6 seconds of reaction time for the driver can be the difference between life and death for you.

We're ripping you for a reason, because we don't want you to become a statistic.


The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.

My theory is that busy streets are for cars. In cluster **** NYC I have been told that at least one bike rider per day is hit and killed by cars. I mostly ride on two types of roads, sidewalks and non busy streets. Granted I am an oddball here because I must drive to work because I do construction, and I ride for recreation only, but the way I see it, most often times, a driver who has a choice of running your ass over or hitting another car will take you out. I value my life, and thats why I would never do a daily bike commute on a busy city street.

Hey, I'm in Polk County also. I ride SR 33 alot and also the Van Fleet and Auburndale trails. Polk City to Lake Alfred is a great ride also.

Yea... I don't think 365+ cyclists die a year in NYC...

http://www.urbanites.plus.com/troll.gif

My theory is that busy streets are for cars. In cluster **** NYC I have been told that at least one bike rider per day is hit and killed by cars. I mostly ride on two types of roads, sidewalks and non busy streets. Granted I am an oddball here because I must drive to work because I do construction, and I ride for recreation only, but the way I see it, most often times, a driver who has a choice of running your ass over or hitting another car will take you out. I value my life, and thats why I would never do a daily bike commute on a busy city street.

NYC had 21 bike fatalities in 2005, which was a big increase from the average of 17 per year over the past decade. By contrast, between 1994 and 1997 50 pedestrians were killed by cars in NYC while walking on the sidewalk.

You can ride where ever you like, but your theory is wrong. Busy streets are an excellent place to cycle.

My theory is that busy streets are for cars. In cluster **** NYC I have been told that at least one bike rider per day is hit and killed by cars. I mostly ride on two types of roads, sidewalks and non busy streets. Granted I am an oddball here because I must drive to work because I do construction, and I ride for recreation only, but the way I see it, most often times, a driver who has a choice of running your ass over or hitting another car will take you out. I value my life, and thats why I would never do a daily bike commute on a busy city street.
Riding on sidewalks is a major contributing factor of bike-car collisions.

To better understand why (among other things), I suggest you look up the book Effective Cycling on amazon.com, check out the reviews, and order yourself a copy. It could save your life.

Lets please not get the idea that I have never ridden on the street. If you didn't know, by my username, I do a ride every year called the Michigander. On this ride, I have crossed the state of Michigan 5 times, and I was hit by a car once on this ride. (It destroyed a rim, but my Klein was fine.) Additionaly, I almost got hit by a garbage truck, and also some ***** on a cell phone in an Escalade. I speek with some experience, specificaly about 1,600 miles of very diverse road experience, and about 5,000 more of neighborhood riding. Granted thats not the 200,000 miles many of you daily commuters have under your belts, but its not like I'm completely talking out of my ass here.

About NYC, evidently my info was wrong, and I'm glad we could clear that up. Incase anybody wondered, the person who told me that grew up in NYC, and while recently visiting he saw a cyclist get crushed by a truck, so he may have just been so upset that he was making false claims.

If we can learn anything from Sydney's death, or a relative of mines paralasis, it should be that cars are dangerous, and that we all must exersize extreme caution while riding with traffic. Every time we ride we risk our lives, and it up to each of us individualy how careful we want to be. Many of you seem to think that I am overly careful, and if I pay for it at the gas pump, I don't care.

In addition to all the other good arguments for not riding against traffic, you are forcing cars to pass you whether it is safe to do so or not. The car doesn't even have the option of slowing and waiting for a safe place to pass. And by the way less than 10% of bike car accidents occur from the bike being hit from the rear. More than 90% of the trouble is in front of you.

Lots of motorists die in car crashes every year too, probably many in NYC, but we don't hear any of them saying "never drive on busy streets." But I guess the perception is that bicyclists are at MUCH higher risk relative to motorists. I'm not so sure. I'd like to know what the fatality rate was for those 21 cyclist deaths, ie. how many deaths per 100,000 miles (or hours or trips). Compare that to motorist fatality rate during the same time period, same city. I bet cycling doesn't come out more than 3 times the risk.

Lets please not get the idea that I have never ridden on the street.
That certainly was not my impression. The issue here is your theory:

My theory is that busy streets are for cars.

Lots of people, including many cyclists with thousands of miles of road experience, agree with that theory. That doesn't make it true. Countless vehicular cyclists have learned to navigate traffic safely, effectively and comfortably, even on very busy streets. Anyone can, if they believe they can. But believing the theory "that busy streets are for cars" is not the way to get there.

And by the way less than 10% of bike car accidents occur from the bike being hit from the rear. More than 90% of the trouble is in front of you.
And a significant percentage of that 10% is comprised of:


Cyclists riding too far to the right, which often encourages motorists to squeeze in with them in a too-narrow-to-be-safely-shared lane, coupled with the cyclist adjusting or falling left, in front of a passing vehicle.
Cyclists veering in front of a passing car (perhaps by looking back and not knowing how to hold a straight line).
Cyclists riding too far to the right on a relatively quiet road, perhaps in a shoulder or bike lane, and thus not getting the attention of approaching faster traffic, that inadvertently drifts into the shoulder or bike lane and strikes the unnoticed cyclist (we've had several threads on specific instances of these types of usually fatal incidents).


Motorists simply slamming into the back of a cyclist who is traveling in the traffic lane is practically unheard of.

Now i know its illegal, but when i'm in high traffic area, i always ride against the flow of traffic. I just don't trust using a small rear-view mirror. anyone else do this?


No, it's the most dangerous thing you can do on you bicycle in traffic. And if you come accross me on my bike going the right way, expect an earfull.

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.
Just shows you how clueless law enforcment is about cycling.

but the way I see it, most often times, a driver who has a choice of running your ass over or hitting another car will take you out.

You're forgetting another choice, the brakes.

[QUOTE=slvoid] We're ripping you for a reason, because we don't want you to become a statistic.

I've gotta say though that the pile of s*** im being buried in is at least done two things: 1) I will NOT ride against traffic again and 2) I've proven to my father that he's wrong and people more knowledgeable than he say so. Thanx

We're ripping you for a reason, because we don't want you to become a statistic.
I've gotta say though that the pile of s*** im being buried in is at least done two things: 1) I will NOT ride against traffic again and 2) I've proven to my father that he's wrong and people more knowledgeable than he say so. Thanx
I'm glad you've taken the advice to heart (not to mention to Dad). But, there is a broader lesson here. Anyone who thinks that riding against traffic might be okay, as you did when you started this thread, probably has significantly more to learn about safe traffic cycling besides learning to ride with traffic. This is why I suggested you check out the book Effective Cycling on Amazon. Have you read the reviews? What do you think?

I'm glad you've taken the advice to heart (not to mention to Dad). But, there is a broader lesson here. Anyone who thinks that riding against traffic might be okay, as you did when you started this thread, probably has significantly more to learn about safe traffic cycling besides learning to ride with traffic. This is why I suggested you check out the book Effective Cycling on Amazon. Have you read the reviews? What do you think?

Three touts of the same book in this thread alone, through a specific retailer no less. I'm guessing that you get royalties or commission for this. I hope you realise that boards like this operate far better for the discussion for which they were intended if they aren't continually congested with spam like this.

Hey Charles, it's to your credit that you were willing to consider the arguments and not just get you back up when we piled on you.

The only reason i mention this is because my father is a sheriff's deputy and he even advocates the pratice. I thank you for your comments and will go with the flow.

He should no better. It is a silly notion to think riding that way is even remotly safe. Either learn to ride with traffic or get off the road. That way you spare some car driver from having nightmares after running you down.

Three touts of the same book in this thread alone, through a specific retailer no less. I'm guessing that you get royalties or commission for this. I hope you realise that boards like this operate far better for the discussion for which they were intended if they aren't continually congested with spam like this.

For the record, I do not get any royalties or commission for the sale of the book Effective Cycling which I recommend solely because of how much I personally got out of it. Similarly, I am not in any way affiliated with Amazon except as a customer. I don't even own Amazon stock. The only reason I mention Amazon is because I happen to know that Effective Cycling can be difficult to find in local stores, but it is available there, and because I think the reviews there are fair.

For the record, I do not get any royalties or commission for the sale of the book Effective Cycling which I recommend solely because of how much I personally got out of it. Similarly, I am not in any way affiliated with Amazon except as a customer. I don't even own Amazon stock. The only reason I mention Amazon is because I happen to know that Effective Cycling can be difficult to find in local stores, but it is available there, and because I think the reviews there are fair.

There is a line between recommending a book and spamming. That line is crossed when you tout it in every other post as an answer to everything.

2) I've proven to my father that he's wrong and people more knowledgeable than he say so. Thanx

I LOL-ed at this.

There is a line between recommending a book and spamming. That line is crossed when you tout it in every other post as an answer to everything.
Dude, lighten up already. I'm simply recommending a text with basic traffic cycling information - the content of which is the basis for courses taught by LAB - to relative newbies. The first two references were recommendations to two separate people. The third was mainly to find out if the first one took me up on the recommendation.

If you think it's spam, then report it as such, and we'll see if a moderator agrees. There is a button for that purpose.

I also recommend Cyclecraft by John Franklin and The Art of Urban Cycling by Robert Hurst, but recommend Effective Cycling over those for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. Ideally, anyone who cycles in traffic would read all three books.

I find helmet heads book recomendation as being very helpful and i dont see why any argument over possible royalties should even be brought up in this forum. A good book is a good book and i also have found amazon to have lower prices than other competive sites.

P.S. This message was brought to you courtasey of Amazon.com

There is a line between recommending a book and spamming. That line is crossed when you tout it in every other post as an answer to everything.

It does get kinda annoying, HH.

I'm simply recommending a text with basic traffic cycling information ...

I also recommend Cyclecraft by John Franklin and The Art of Urban Cycling by Robert Hurst, but recommend Effective Cycling over those for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. Ideally, anyone who cycles in traffic would read all three books.
But what is best? I think best in this particular case is instantly available no cost information on safe cycling.
Once can get that here: http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/index.htm (for example)

Maybe it doesn't meet your particular nitpicky criteria or suggest to do things in subltely different ways, but it certainly gets folks off in the right way and does not teach dangerous methods. If you really wanted to help you could give the readily availble info and note that for more in depth understanding and techniques one can order xyz book from abc source.

Al

I find helmet heads book recomendation as being very helpful and i dont see why any argument over possible royalties should even be brought up in this forum. A good book is a good book and i also have found amazon to have lower prices than other competive sites.

P.S. This message was brought to you courtasey of Amazon.com

There is good stuff on the web too.

http://bicyclesafe.com/ for example

Charles - I have a very small mirror that mounts on my glasses, it is much more effective than a handle bar mirror for monitoring the traffic behind you. By making small movements of the head you can scan a wide area behind you - even traffic merging from a highway exit to your right. Mirrors are not used to avoid crashes, but to know when it is safe to change lanes.

I sometimes ride against the traffic or on the sidewalk, but when I do I take extra care of the special dangers - cars coming out of intersections or driveways will be looking in the wrong direction, or may not be able to see me because of obstructions.

Yes, yes, streetsmarts and bicyclesafe.com are excellent resources as well. And we might as well mention the Cycling Safety and Vehicular Cycling pages on Wikipedia.

However, while these intros provide essentially the same basic nuts and bolts, and are a good place to start, they don't convey the big picture, a good understanding of which is required to really be able to implement these techniques effectively in realtime while cycling in traffic.

I mostly ride on two types of roads, sidewalks and non busy streets.

The problem with sidewalks is that you still have to cross intersections, which is where most car-bike accidents happen, and here the sidewalk cyclist is in far greater danger than the road cyclist. Not to mention the threat you pose to pedestrians. As a pedestrian I've been hit and knocked down by a cyclist...and I didn't like it!