You'd think that with increase in fuel prices people would react by purchasing smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles or by decreasing the amount of driving they do. But the opposite seems to be happening .............
Width of parking spaces may be upped in Red Deer
http://www.reddeeradvocate.com/
By PAUL COWLEY
Advocate staff
Apr 26 2006
Call it the SUV squeeze.
Planners were asked Monday to boost the size of future parking spaces to 2.8 metres wide from 2.6 metres.
Councillor Jeffrey Dawson, who owns rental car businesses, pointed out it costs him thousands of dollars a years in dings. Dawson admitted he was not sure if his business interests put him in a conflict of interest on the bylaw changes that passed first reading Monday but said he would like to see planners bring back new width standards when the issue goes to a public hearing May 23.
Councillor Cindy Jefferies also raised the issue during a review of new parking standards for the city.
Increasing parking spaces was considered, but planners opted to recommend that the driving lanes between rows of parking spaces be widened to seven from six metres instead, said Martin Kvapil, planning assistant with Parkland Community Planning Services.
Proposed standards also include limits to the lengths of parking spaces, with more landscaping requirements.
Also proposed are changes requiring new high schools and churches to provide a lot more parking.
Growing numbers of vehicle-owning students mean the old standard of one parking space per three students at senior high schools is too low. “More students are driving to school within that age group,” Kvapil said.
The city’s existing high schools would not meet the proposed standard of one space per 1.5 students.
That prompted Councillor Larry Pimm to request staff contact the school boards to let them know what is proposed because it would affect future planning.
It is also recommended that churches be required to offer one parking space per 2.5 seats, compared with the current standard of one per eight seats. Kvapil said the recommendation is based on existing parking deficiencies and the results of a parking study that consultants prepared for Calgary in 2004. Councillor Tara Veer questioned if the parking space boost would allow smaller churches to expand on the lot sizes usually available to them. Kvapil said that a church could seek a parking relaxation in that case. Councillor Jeffrey Dawson said that a number of large churches have already moved to large sites in the county. He asked if the bylaw changes were meant to force larger congregations outside the city. Kvapil said that was not the intent of the bylaw.
Parking at shopping centres was also reviewed but no changes were recommended.
The parking shortage at Red Deer Regional Hospital Centre was also raised. Councillor Cindy Jefferies said she knows of a female worker on a years-long waiting list for a space, who has to walk a considerable distance at night to reach her vehicle. Kvapil said the hospital situation was not addressed and would require a separate review.
~~~~~~~~~~
Are they doing the same things in your area? Are they increasing the size of the parking spots so that SUVs will fit? Are they increasing the number of parking spots because the number of drivers has increased that much?
I had a little bit of a laugh when I started reading that article ... they're increasing the sizes of airplane seats, and restaurant seats, and so on to accommodate the increasing size of North American humans ... and they're increasing the size of parking lot spaces to accommodate the increasing size of North American vehicles. :lol:
derath
04-27-06, 06:07 AM
In a way that is great. Larger spaces means fewer overall spaces. Which means more pain parking for all drivers, which, coupled with higher gas prices, could mean more people deciding alternative transportation is worth it.
-D
bikebuddha
04-27-06, 06:46 AM
Here's an idea. Wait until after the repaving is done and then that night you and some buddies go out and paint the lines 2.3 meters wide. Hilarity ensues.
Roody
04-27-06, 11:59 AM
I think the gas prices are only now starting to get high enough to affect motoriand purchasing behavior. If the prices stay where they are, or go up, we will soon see some changes. I would wait until the end of the summer before I restriped my parking lot. The situation is very volatile right now, we will know more soon.
Machka
04-27-06, 12:08 PM
In a way that is great. Larger spaces means fewer overall spaces. Which means more pain parking for all drivers, which, coupled with higher gas prices, could mean more people deciding alternative transportation is worth it.
-D
No, unfortunately they want to expand the parking lots ... use up grassy area, cut down trees, whatever it takes to make more parking spots available.
Reminds me of a song from back in the 60s or 70s ... Big Yellow Taxi
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
and a swinging hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged all the people
A dollar and a half to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And they put up a parking lot . . . . .
oilfreeandhappy
04-27-06, 02:30 PM
Great song. I was listening to that the other day. Also reminds of Joni Mitchell's other song - "The Circle Game", with these continuing stories about more cars, parking, etc.
DavidLee
04-27-06, 05:16 PM
Interesting article, thanks Machka. I was just thinking about parking lots yesterday as I was looking for a suitable place to lock my bike at the grocery store. :mad: On any given day the parking lot for that grocery store is maybe 25% full as is most of the parking lots it seems. Now I guess they need to accommodate "just in case" but all that empty parking space and I can't even find a decent rack to lock my bike. :(
smurfy
04-27-06, 09:58 PM
If you also noticed many new homes in the 'burbs have taller garage doors to accomadate big SUV's.
Machka
04-30-06, 02:23 PM
Interesting article, thanks Machka. I was just thinking about parking lots yesterday as I was looking for a suitable place to lock my bike at the grocery store. :mad: On any given day the parking lot for that grocery store is maybe 25% full as is most of the parking lots it seems. Now I guess they need to accommodate "just in case" but all that empty parking space and I can't even find a decent rack to lock my bike. :(
It's the same with my college. There's a rack outside in a sort of courtyard off the campus bar, but unless I rode a $10 beater there's no way I'd park my bicycle there ... I wouldn't feel confident that it would still be there when I got out of classes .... or be in rideable shape. Also, every time something is going on in that area, they don't allow people to leave their bicycles in the racks.
But the college parking issue has come up in several city meetings lately. There aren't enough parking spots for students, so many students are parking in the streets in the residential areas around the campus and walking from there ... and apparently this is annoying the residents in those areas.
I'm one of the ones who parks in the residental section and walks from there, but if they would give me a secure place to park my bicycle, I'd happily ride most of the year ..... I suspect others would too ... and that might solve the parking issues there. But perhaps that's too simple and obvious. Instead they are planning to build a new parking lot.
Dahon.Steve
05-01-06, 10:17 AM
It's the same with my college. There's a rack outside in a sort of courtyard off the campus bar, but unless I rode a $10 beater there's no way I'd park my bicycle there ... I wouldn't feel confident that it would still be there when I got out of classes .... or be in rideable shape. Also, every time something is going on in that area, they don't allow people to leave their bicycles in the racks.
Bicycle racks in college compuses are bad news. Then again, bike racks in general are bad news.
The best place to leave a utility bicycle is a place where it is hidden from foot traffic. This may mean walking several blocks away from the campus but it could work out fine. Make sure the bike isn't worth much and use the Kryptonite New York 3000.
Dahon.Steve
05-01-06, 10:21 AM
Are they doing the same things in your area? Are they increasing the size of the parking spots so that SUVs will fit? Are they increasing the number of parking spots because the number of drivers has increased that much?
New home, apartment and codo construction much include indoor parking for the motorist. As a result, this is driving up the price of ALL housing in general as builders must spend additional funds in creating allocating additional garage space, separate building and huge basements for the motorcar. It's an incredible waste of money and increases the cost of living for everyone.
cerewa
05-01-06, 10:41 AM
New home, apartment and codo construction much include indoor parking for the motorist.
Was that a typo- supposed to say "must" instead of "much"?
I think the free market ought to be left to take care of whether builders in crowded cities provide parking.
If condo buyers don't demand parking lots, builders shouldn't make any- and the people who do want parking lots can use the ones that already exist, at the prices parking-lot-owners already charge.
Dahon.Steve
05-01-06, 11:02 AM
Was that a typo- supposed to say "must" instead of "much"?
I think the free market ought to be left to take care of whether builders in crowded cities provide parking.
If condo buyers don't demand parking lots, builders shouldn't make any- and the people who do want parking lots can use the ones that already exist, at the prices parking-lot-owners already charge.
It was a typo. Sorry. The word was must.
When it comes to new home construction, builders in small and large towns and cities must get permits from city hall. Even if you have lots, the local planners will require more constructed as those who will move into a new large complex will probably bring cars taking up all the available street parking.
gwd
05-01-06, 01:07 PM
This larger parking space thing might be a re-adjustment. Around here in the 1980s shopping mall owners who wanted to expand and meet the requirement for providing parking repainted the spaces smaller so they could get a few more on each row.
On the issue of home construction...
My building was built in 1949 and had 1 parking space for every 6 units. We had streetcars back then. The funny thing is that even into the late 1990's the spaces weren't fully used. Back then, the building management let some people have two spaces. Now, with more affluent people moving into the neighborhood there is a waiting list for spaces with a one space per unit limit. The car people complain loudly about the lack of parking. The building management has repainted the spaces to squeeze in 3 more cars.
To our car people's credit when management asks if the parking issue is important enough that we replace the garden with a small parking garage they say no. I suppose the extra parking garage could have a green roof to preserve the open space but green roofs don't support 80 foot oak trees do they?
AlanK
05-01-06, 05:39 PM
Hmm... I've read several times in the last year that SUV sales in the US have declined by over 50%. They attribute this to the increase in gas prices. Maybe it's different in Canada.
Machka
05-01-06, 05:48 PM
Hmm... I've read several times in the last year that SUV sales in the US have declined by over 50%. They attribute this to the increase in gas prices. Maybe it's different in Canada.
I live in a part of Canada where EVERYONE drives massive pick-up trucks or SUVs. It's cowboy country round these parts ... that and oil!! When I drive my little (borrowed) Ford Focus, I feel like a dwarf next to most of the vehicles on the road here. But I didn't notice this proliferation of oversized vehicles when I lived in Manitoba, so I think it depends on the part of Canada.
AlanK
05-01-06, 05:58 PM
I live in a part of Canada where EVERYONE drives massive pick-up trucks or SUVs. It's cowboy country round these parts ... that and oil!! When I drive my little (borrowed) Ford Focus, I feel like a dwarf next to most of the vehicles on the road here. But I didn't notice this proliferation of oversized vehicles when I lived in Manitoba, so I think it depends on the part of Canada.
Yeah, sometimes I forget how rural so much of Canada is - as if the US is the only country in the world with hicks and rednecks:D
Chris L
05-02-06, 09:50 PM
Hmm... I've read several times in the last year that SUV sales in the US have declined by over 50%. They attribute this to the increase in gas prices. Maybe it's different in Canada.
That still means that all the ones they bought last year and the year before are still on the road.
Personally, I don't think fuel prices are going to have all that much effect on human behaviour unless they go really high. I remember my mother telling me of what would happen in the supermarket where she used to work. Basically if people couldn't afford fuel or cigarettes, they'd just make other sacrifices to pay for them. Often it would mean buying less food for their children (I'm not making that up). Rising fuel prices won't make people drive less until they reach a point where people start running out of sacrifices.
manual_overide
05-02-06, 10:37 PM
No, unfortunately they want to expand the parking lots ... use up grassy area, cut down trees, whatever it takes to make more parking spots available.
Reminds me of a song from back in the 60s or 70s ... Big Yellow Taxi
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
and a swinging hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged all the people
A dollar and a half to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And they put up a parking lot . . . . .
i love that song! of course, i hear the newer counting crows version more than the original, but i like 'em both!
Bike_UK
05-03-06, 04:33 AM
Gas prices have still got to get a lot higher before anything will change. There was a headline on British news last night that the average price for a litre of petrol has now reached 96.9p. Quick conversion gives just over $8 a gallon.
Now we do tend to drive smaller-engined, more economical cars over here but there is certainly no mass-move towards driving less. Instead we buy a new car, that gives us an extra 5mpg and drive around a bit more! (From memory) we have more than 20 million cars on our roads in a country of 60 million people - it's crazy. Traffic jams are no longer an event, but an inevitablity during some stage of any journey.
Roody
05-03-06, 12:20 PM
I was remembering back to the gas crisis of the 1970s. People did start buying economy cars at that time. That's when the Japanese first gained market share in the US. And that's when they first started putting special areas in parking lots for "Compact Cars Only."
So I imagine we'll see similar here very soon, if it hasn't already started. They said on the news that hybrid sales are up 64 %. (Disclaimer--I cant remember the exact figure.)
adgrant
05-03-06, 01:17 PM
Gas prices have still got to get a lot higher before anything will change. There was a headline on British news last night that the average price for a litre of petrol has now reached 96.9p. Quick conversion gives just over $8 a gallon.
Thats an imperial gallon though. It is more like $6.70 a US gallon.
Bike_UK
05-04-06, 06:27 AM
Oops! Thanks for that.
But the other point stands - we are still driving around paying twice as much for gas as you guys so there won't be less driving from the masses for a while.
adgrant
05-04-06, 10:21 AM
Oops! Thanks for that.
But the other point stands - we are still driving around paying twice as much for gas as you guys so there won't be less driving from the masses for a while.
Probably not. Many cities in the U.S. don't even have a workable mass transit system. Even those that do (e.g. NYC tristate) are sometimes so expensive that it is often cheaper to drive even with one person in the car. Even with the higher gas prices, it costs me $10 in gas and tolls to drive my car to work or $25 to take mass transit. Guess how I get to work? AT least I am not driving an SUV.
wsexson
05-04-06, 01:55 PM
Yuck!
wsexson
05-04-06, 02:00 PM
New home, apartment and codo construction much include indoor parking for the motorist. As a result, this is driving up the price of ALL housing in general as builders must spend additional funds in creating allocating additional garage space, separate building and huge basements for the motorcar. It's an incredible waste of money and increases the cost of living for everyone.
In California garages are used to store a tremendous pile of crap that never gets used for anything. Cars get parked on the street, in the driveway, or under a canopy.
slagjumper
05-08-06, 11:12 PM
Someone on city planing must stand to make some money selling parking lot realestate. In the US, we have enough cars to completely fill Connecticut. We should all drive our vehicles there and abandon them. What is the average waiste size of Red Deer residents? Perhaps they need SUVs.
folder fanatic
05-10-06, 11:52 AM
It's the same with my college. There's a rack outside in a sort of courtyard off the campus bar, but unless I rode a $10 beater there's no way I'd park my bicycle there ... I wouldn't feel confident that it would still be there when I got out of classes .... or be in rideable shape. Also, every time something is going on in that area, they don't allow people to leave their bicycles in the racks.
But the college parking issue has come up in several city meetings lately. There aren't enough parking spots for students, so many students are parking in the streets in the residential areas around the campus and walking from there ... and apparently this is annoying the residents in those areas.
I'm one of the ones who parks in the residental section and walks from there, but if they would give me a secure place to park my bicycle, I'd happily ride most of the year ..... I suspect others would too ... and that might solve the parking issues there. But perhaps that's too simple and obvious. Instead they are planning to build a new parking lot.-Machka
I would not get your hopes up too high. I had to give up cycling after I transfer to another non cycling (cars were king at that commuter school)college 25 years ago. No safe place to keep it as the gang members for East Los Angeles always make a point to visit our campus for good pickings periodically. Nothing changed and nothing improved that I could see when I visited the campus a short while ago on business. I would opt for the folders especially now and lug them about in a luggage cart for safe keeping now and in the future if I returned at most universities.
folder fanatic
05-10-06, 11:56 AM
Bicycle racks in college compuses are bad news. Then again, bike racks in general are bad news.
The best place to leave a utility bicycle is a place where it is hidden from foot traffic. This may mean walking several blocks away from the campus but it could work out fine. Make sure the bike isn't worth much and use the Kryptonite New York 3000. -Dahon.Steve
Would not be recommended in gangland areas.
fordfasterr
05-10-06, 12:00 PM
Down here where I live .. (Fort Lauderdale).. I've noticed that more women drive SUV's than men...