Survey: 90% of commuter cars have a single occupant

[cerewa]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12191001/site/newsweek/
Newsweek has an online commuting survey wherein 85% of respondents so far commute by car. it's mentioned in this thread in the commuting forum: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=191373



If you commute in a car, are you usually alone? * 26098 responses

Yes
90%

No
9.6%

People come to this forum talking about how people should have the freedom to use their hard-earned money on whatever kind of car they want, because it's legal, blah-de-blah, and one of the significant arguments is that people don't want government looking in to whether they're using their vehicle responsibly. Well, here you go-- if you think single-occupant use of ~3000 pound vehicles is generally irresponsible, people are not using their vehicles responsibly. Those SUVs and cars that are used for commuting etc., are (at that time) not being used because they can carry 5 to 8 people, or because they can carry/tow 800 to 5000 lbs of stuff around.

They are being used because, if you have one and it runs, it's convenient, and easy to ignore the costs to others in terms of environmental harm and buggering up urban planning.


disclaimer: the Newsweek survey is non-scientific. However, I doubt its results are inaccurate enough to affect the point I'm making here.

[oilfreeandhappy]

Sometimes, when cycling to work, just for grins, I count the number of single occupant vehicles. Or other times, I would count the percentage of vehicles that were SUVs or vans. In my area, in both counts, it was a majority. I never would have guessed 90% though.

[adgrant]

I am not surprised, one advantage of not taking mass transit is setting your own schedule.

[chephy]

I am not surprised, one advantage of not taking mass transit is setting your own schedule ...that is going to be completely messed up by sitting in traffic jams formed by people who were all setting their own schedules. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I take public transit occasionally (as well as bike, of course). Average wait time for a bus in Toronto is, I'd estimate, about 10-15 minutes. Average wait time for a subway: about 3 minutes. Average wait time for a bike: 0. Schedule away! :)

[cooker]

I've done lots of counts over 15 or more years. I take the bus regularily in winter and occasionally in other seasons, and if I'm bored and the bus hasn't come I sometimes do these counts. I only count cars/vans/SUVs with no business logo painted on them, and no ladders or landscaping tools etc. mounted on a rack. It's 80-90% single occupancy every time, every locale.

[literocola]

There is no way I could spend so much time waiting in traffic.
I used to have this job where my only route home was this crazy busy steet, and when I got off work at 5pm, the traffic was INSAINE! Every night this strech of road about 5-7 mile staight away of grid lock. I took the bus one night due to the flu and couldnt ride. I was on the bus in that god forsaken gridlock for an hour and 1/2.
When my bike ride in that strech was around 5-10 minutes.
Everyday it was like this... I dont understand how people can punish themselfs like this. Its almost like spending time in a VERY VERY small jail cell with a 360 degree view of other inmates.

[adgrant]

...that is going to be completely messed up by sitting in traffic jams formed by people who were all setting their own schedules. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I take public transit occasionally (as well as bike, of course). Average wait time for a bus in Toronto is, I'd estimate, about 10-15 minutes. Average wait time for a subway: about 3 minutes. Average wait time for a bike: 0. Schedule away! :)

If you car pool you will still be sitting in the same traffic jams but will have an even longer commute because of the need to coordinate with your passengers. Taking a bus is even worse (my least favorite way of getting anywhere). A bike is definitely quicker over short distances assuming you have secure bike storage at work and somewhere to change/shower. Over longer distances rail/subway is often a good option if available. If you have to change trains or switch between subway and train you lose many of the advantages though. In the NYC metro area the trains are also overcrowded and expensive.

The other issue encouraging single occupant cars is that a car that is not driven costs almost as much to own as a car that is driven because of deprecation and insurance (though you will get a break on maintainance). Of course, if someone can get to work without using a car and get buy groceries etc without using a car then they can get rid of the car altogether and save a fortune (the point of this forum of course). In practise, there are very few parts of the U.S. with large numbers of "car free" driving age adults. Manhattan probably has the highest proportion of non car owners of any county in the U.S. partly because of high population density and excellent public transport for things that aren't in walking distance. The large number of cabs and easy access to rental cars also helps but I think the high cost of parking ($300-$800 a month) is what really discourages car ownership.

[cooker]

Manhattan probably has the highest proportion of non car owners of any county in the U.S...I think the high cost of parking ($300-$800 a month) is what really discourages car ownership.

Felix: God'll get you for that! (illegal parking)
Oscar: God never owned a car in New York!

- The Odd Couple (TV series)

[Dahon.Steve]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12191001/site/newsweek/
Newsweek has an online commuting survey wherein 85% of respondents so far commute by car. it's mentioned in this thread in the commuting forum: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=191373


Did you notice the negative photo of the bicycle commuter in that picture. Instead of placing a picture of man or woman in shorts and tennis shirt riding to work, the picture was of an poorly dressed commuter in freezing temperature riding without gloves and just a ball cap.

[Artkansas]

According to that newsweek poll approximately 76.5% of all commuters are alone in their car. That's a tremendous voting block.

Did you notice that the man on the bike is a stock image? I did a quick view of getty's images. Most are not of commuters. But there was one that would have been nicer.
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xt/56706242.jpg?v=1&g=SAM&s=1
I guess Newsweek is too well supported by big business to want to encourage cycling.

[folder fanatic]

Most people would think "Who the f*#& cares!" when they read about single drivers in SUVs. The mass exodus from mass transit (trolley cars) during the post WW2 era was largely in part due to being the king/queen of his/her own little world. You sit on your "throne" watching the poor peasants walking or even cycling about as you are fully protectedly cocooned in your private world. Try to compete with that even now with the fuel prices skyrocking up and up.

[Dahon.Steve]

Most people would think "Who the f*#& cares!" when they read about single drivers in SUVs. The mass exodus from mass transit (trolley cars) during the post WW2 era was largely in part due to being the king/queen of his/her own little world. You sit on your "throne" watching the poor peasants walking or even cycling about as you are fully protectedly cocooned in your private world. Try to compete with that even now with the fuel prices skyrocking up and up.

My neighborhood has trolley cars (lightrail) so they are still around. I've made a personal exodus to live next to one and it was easy. Plenty of these trains are around the country so you don't have to follow the crowd into the burbs and stuck paying high gas prices.

www.lightrailnow.com

[aikigreg]

Everyday it was like this... I dont understand how people can punish themselfs like this. Its almost like spending time in a VERY VERY small jail cell with a 360 degree view of other inmates.

Most people would say they don't understand how you can punish yourself by having a small wedge jammed up your backside for miles ad miles :)

[adgrant]

Most people would say they don't understand how you can punish yourself by having a small wedge jammed up your backside for miles ad miles :)

Good point, particularly when it is cold/raining/snowing. A nice heated leather car seat is probably more appealing to most people even if it isn't moving very fast.

[TuckertonRR]

Good point, particularly when it is cold/raining/snowing. A nice heated leather car seat is probably more appealing to most people even if it isn't moving very fast.

Of course.....it's the easiest and dumbest way...

[DataJunkie]

I hate to admit it but today I woke up 2hrs late (alarm set for 4pm rather than 4am).
No way in heck could I make it 30 miles to work for a meeting in enough time. So, I borrowed my wife's car.
90 minutes stuck in gridlock and one of the things I noticed was 90% seems to be a low estimate for single occupant vehicles.

Anyhow, I'm now working out a new alternative if I can not bike. I hate driving.

[adgrant]

Of course.....it's the easiest and dumbest way...

Well its certainly the least evironmentally responsible way. Its only dumber if there is a cheaper and/or faster alternative. Not everyone will be able to spare the time to cycle 25 miles to work and public transport may be much slower or more expensive. Car pooling requires that your work schedule is predictable and matches someone else's whose home and workplace are close to yours.

Of course there really is no excuse for commuting in an SUV.

[TuckertonRR]

Well its certainly the least evironmentally responsible way. Its only dumber if there is a cheaper and/or faster alternative. Not everyone will be able to spare the time to cycle 25 miles to work and public transport may be much slower or more expensive. Car pooling requires that your work schedule is predictable and matches someone else's whose home and workplace are close to yours.

Of course there really is no excuse for commuting in an SUV.

What? Do you work for a car company or something? There ARE NO ROADS that are "the open road" or whatever else the car co's try to sell to us! That's a load of BS! Also, you're assuming you DON'T have a choice of :

where you work
your hours
where you live

I *chose* to work in an area supported by good public transport, and where I live, by being a good place to live, to bike around in, and has good transport. But don't tell me you *have to* live in the burbs where there isn't really any other practical option but to drive, then complain about it!! Talk about being a slave (both mental & physical) to your car! Jeeze!!!!

[adgrant]

What? Do you work for a car company or something? There ARE NO ROADS that are "the open road" or whatever else the car co's try to sell to us! That's a load of BS! Also, you're assuming you DON'T have a choice of :

where you work
your hours
where you live

I *chose* to work in an area supported by good public transport, and where I live, by being a good place to live, to bike around in, and has good transport. But don't tell me you *have to* live in the burbs where there isn't really any other practical option but to drive, then complain about it!! Talk about being a slave (both mental & physical) to your car! Jeeze!!!!

No I don't work for a car company and I don't live in the burbs. I do however work in the burbs. There is good public transport available (as long as I don't work to late). Shame it costs more than driving. I am down to one car and will be car free next year once the lease on my remaining car is up.

However, I wasn't talking about me specifically. Just pointing out that their are perfectly rational reasons for commuting to work in a car. Most people do not base their career choices solely on the commute. Rational people are concerned about things like the type of position, income and benefits. It doesn't always make sense to move closer to the job either (if you own, moving can cost over $50,000 round here). Living car free is not so impressive if you can't really afford one and have no dependants.

[Roody]

No I don't work for a car company and I don't live in the burbs. I do however work in the burbs. There is good public transport available (as long as I don't work to late). Shame it costs more than driving. I am down to one car and will be car free next year once the lease on my remaining car is up.

However, I wasn't talking about me specifically. Just pointing out that their are perfectly rational reasons for commuting to work in a car. Most people do not base their career choices solely on the commute. Rational people are concerned about things like the type of position, income and benefits. It doesn't always make sense to move closer to the job either (if you own, moving can cost over $50,000 round here). Living car free is not so impressive if you can't really afford one and have no dependants.
I'm glad you're ditching the car. But you know, really, you're among friends here. You don't have to support car people here on the forum. This is our own little place and we don't have to pretend that we approve of their way of life.

Besides, they don't need your support. They've got the world by the short hairs already!

BTW, it would not cost you one penny more to get rid of your car now, before the lease expires. I mean, if you really want to.

[Brad M]

I'd take the rainy bike ride over the sunny freeway gridlock any day. At least they didn't show some nerd in neon spandex. That would scare anyone from bike commuting.

[adgrant]

I'm glad you're ditching the car. But you know, really, you're among friends here. You don't have to support car people here on the forum. This is our own little place and we don't have to pretend that we approve of their way of life.

Besides, they don't need your support. They've got the world by the short hairs already!

BTW, it would not cost you one penny more to get rid of your car now, before the lease expires. I mean, if you really want to.

I think it is important to understand why "car people" drive their cars to work. Calling them stupid isn't really constructive (hostility to other road users is not going to win over converts). That said, I am enjoying seeing all the large SUV drivers on the TV news programs complaining about high gas prices. They deserve the "pain" they are suffering as does anyone who uses a drive-thru. I am also happy to see SUV sales plumet (Ford Explorer down 42%).

The biggest barrier to a car free lifestyle is the poor public transport. Even in NYC which has the most extensive public transport system I have experianced in the US, the subways are overcrowded and the trains are both overcrowded and expensive. I can walk faster than the buses can get me across town.

BTW getting rid of my car before the lease expires would require me to come up with at least $5000 in cash and once I got rid of the car, I would need to rent one at least a couple of weekends a month. I prefer to just let the lease run out.

[TuckertonRR]

No I don't work for a car company and I don't live in the burbs. I do however work in the burbs. There is good public transport available (as long as I don't work to late). Shame it costs more than driving. I am down to one car and will be car free next year once the lease on my remaining car is up..

Taking public transport is Cheaper than driving to work every day. Especially in NYC. Say a monthly pass on LIRR or MetroNorth will be $150...compare that to the savings from gas, parking, a bit lower insurance rates. Plus saving yourself a headache driving in NY area traffic. All totalled, you're still saving money in the end. Take your bike (even get a folder) on the train - you've got the best of both worlds...

[adgrant]

Taking public transport is Cheaper than driving to work every day. Especially in NYC. Say a monthly pass on LIRR or MetroNorth will be $150...compare that to the savings from gas, parking, a bit lower insurance rates. Plus saving yourself a headache driving in NY area traffic. All totalled, you're still saving money in the end. Take your bike (even get a folder) on the train - you've got the best of both worlds...

A monthly train pass on Metro North to the town I need to travel to is about $265. The subway pass is $76 making a total of $341 a month. Taking bikes on the train is not permitted during rush hour. Getting a seat on the train during rush hour can be challenging.

Taking the car costs me about $200 a month in gas and tolls even at current prices. Since it is a reverse commute, traffic is not too bad (until the last couple of miles). Since I am already leasing the car and don't pay maintainance, gas and tolls are my only additional costs.

[thelung]

Cars have more than one seat in them? Who knew?

[TuckertonRR]

A monthly train pass on Metro North to the town I need to travel to is about $265. The subway pass is $76 making a total of $341 a month. Taking bikes on the train is not permitted during rush hour. Getting a seat on the train during rush hour can be challenging.

Taking the car costs me about $200 a month in gas and tolls even at current prices. Since it is a reverse commute, traffic is not too bad (until the last couple of miles). Since I am already leasing the car and don't pay maintainance, gas and tolls are my only additional costs.

Ok, so you're going to like Poukeepsie or one of those way-out places....montly passes don't cost nearly that much here in Philly....

[Roody]

A monthly train pass on Metro North to the town I need to travel to is about $265. The subway pass is $76 making a total of $341 a month. Taking bikes on the train is not permitted during rush hour. Getting a seat on the train during rush hour can be challenging.

Taking the car costs me about $200 a month in gas and tolls even at current prices. Since it is a reverse commute, traffic is not too bad (until the last couple of miles). Since I am already leasing the car and don't pay maintainance, gas and tolls are my only additional costs.
Well, I guess if you can't afford the extra $141 a month. But I doubt if that is really the case, since you managed to pay much more for that expensive lease.

So far everything you say is a rationale for car culture, which you seem to buy hook line and sinker. You have also gone out of your way to justify your personal use of of a single occupant vehicle to drive a few miles in an area that is extremely congested and polluted, bu which also offers excellent cycling and public transport.

Can you really give one intelligent reason why an able bodied person living in your area would need to drive a car into Manhattan every day, especially with only one occupant?

I really doubt if you have a good excuse, but I hope you try to find one logical reason...

So far, the only reason you have given for driving is that it saves you (allegedly) that extra $141 a month. Is your health, the livability of the city and the health of the planet worth a certain sum under $141? Or are we really talking about your convenience and leisure?

[adgrant]

Well, I guess if you can't afford the extra $141 a month. But I doubt if that is really the case, since you managed to pay much more for that expensive lease.

So far everything you say is a rationale for car culture, which you seem to buy hook line and sinker. You have also gone out of your way to justify your personal use of of a single occupant vehicle to drive a few miles in an area that is extremely congested and polluted, bu which also offers excellent cycling and public transport.

Can you really give one intelligent reason why an able bodied person living in your area would need to drive a car into Manhattan every day, especially with only one occupant?

I really doubt if you have a good excuse, but I hope you try to find one logical reason...

So far, the only reason you have given for driving is that it saves you (allegedly) that extra $141 a month. Is your health, the livability of the city and the health of the planet worth a certain sum under $141? Or are we really talking about your convenience and leisure?

Of course I could afford the extra $141 a month, I am just not willing to pay it right now. I choose to commute in the cheapest and most convenient way possible (it is more convenient) because that is the rational thing to do. Cycling is not an option for my current commute, however once the car is gone I will be taking public transport (which is no healthier than driving BTW).

I have no idea why an able bodied person would chose to drive a car into Manhattan every day. That would be nuts given the traffic. I don't drive a car into Manhattan, I live in Manhattan and drive out to the burbs. I would love to car pool but that would at a minimum require me to get out of bed an hour earlier.

BTW I have done the combined bike/train commute before while living car free but not in the U.S.

[adgrant]

Ok, so you're going to like Poukeepsie or one of those way-out places....montly passes don't cost nearly that much here in Philly....

Actually no, that is the monthly cost for Stamford, CT slightly less than an hour away from Grand Central. For some reason the Connecticut State government in Hartford, does not like to fund or invest in public transport for Fairfield County. Very short sighted of them considering how congested CT highways are. The trains are seriously overcrowded, old and break down quite a bit.

Getting back to the original point of the thread, I think that the only way to make a significant dent in the number of cars used to commute is to significantly increase gasoline taxes (by say $2 a gallon) and funnel the money into public transport. There is a danger though that we could end up like the UK where gas is $6.70 a gallon and train tickets cost $40 for a less than two hour trip to London.

[TuckertonRR]

have no idea why an able bodied person would chose to drive a car into Manhattan every day. That would be nuts given the traffic. I don't drive a car into Manhattan, I live in Manhattan and drive out to the burbs. I would love to car pool but that would at a minimum require me to get out of bed an hour earlier.

But...you ARE driving into Manhattan every day!!! Insurance & parking a car alone in Manhattan must eat up a TON of money!! That's one main reason people CHOOSE to live in NYC...no need for a car.

[adgrant]

have no idea why an able bodied person would chose to drive a car into Manhattan every day. That would be nuts given the traffic. I don't drive a car into Manhattan, I live in Manhattan and drive out to the burbs. I would love to car pool but that would at a minimum require me to get out of bed an hour earlier.

But...you ARE driving into Manhattan every day!!! Insurance & parking a car alone in Manhattan must eat up a TON of money!! That's one main reason people CHOOSE to live in NYC...no need for a car.

Well yes technically you are correct. However, since I am driving in the reverse direction, it is a completely different commute. I am not sitting in traffic. There is the odd bottleneck but I can drive at 55mph-65mph most of the way. I could actually drive faster but I chose not to.

Insurance and parking expenses are sunk costs though insurance would drop slightly if I wasn't commuting (but not by much). Insurance is not as much as we used to pay in the burbs because we have already got rid of one car. In fact having been used to paying for two cars, keeping one in the city doesn't seem that expensive but I will not be replacing it when the lease is up.

[adgrant]

This should amuse everyone:

(from CNN)

"How 'Extreme Savers' save on gas"

'When settling down in Florida, the couple found a home about 1 mile from their place of work, with shops located between the two. The close proximity is "one of the reasons we chose this place to live."

The Parkers own a Nissan Xterra full sized SUV but with a one mile commute, gas costs them only $40 every two weeks. The cost is, by the Extreme Saver's own admission, "just lost in the noise...It doesn't even phase us."'

How can anyone (the Parkers or CNN) thing that driving an SUV (or any car) for a one mile commute is saving gas is beyond me. This country really is doomed.

[DogBoy]

...Those SUVs and cars that are used for commuting etc., are (at that time) not being used because they can carry 5 to 8 people, or because they can carry/tow 800 to 5000 lbs of stuff around. ...

Therin lies the problem. If I have a boat and a family I need to be able to tow the boat and get the family to the lake. I only do this a few times a year, but enough that renting something to do it is a hassle. I can just purchase an SUV (or 4-door pickup in my case) as my vehicle and whenever I want to do any of those things I'm good to go. Yes its expensive and wasteful to commute to work by yourself in an SUV (or any motorized vehicle), but MANY people find it worthwile to pay the gas penalty for the ease of shifting from personal hauler to family hauler to toy hauler. I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with those same people complaining about the high cost of gas.

Just remember you don't really know anything about the person behind the wheel. I drive a pickup truck to work by myself occasionally but most days I cycle. In terms of gas usage I use MUCH less than my wife does with daily commute in her sedan (30ish mpg). Do you begrudge me my choice in vehicle? Why are you trying to force your values on everyone else?

[Artkansas]

Cars have more than one seat in them? Who knew?:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

[Brad M]

This should amuse everyone:

(from CNN)

"How 'Extreme Savers' save on gas"

'When settling down in Florida, the couple found a home about 1 mile from their place of work, with shops located between the two. The close proximity is "one of the reasons we chose this place to live."

The Parkers own a Nissan Xterra full sized SUV but with a one mile commute, gas costs them only $40 every two weeks. The cost is, by the Extreme Saver's own admission, "just lost in the noise...It doesn't even phase us."'

How can anyone (the Parkers or CNN) thing that driving an SUV (or any car) for a one mile commute is saving gas is beyond me. This country really is doomed.
I think they meant to highlight the fact that they bought a house close to work. With everything supposedly within a mile of their home, $20 per week is still too much.

[0_emissions :=)]

how come they show the cyclist with no helmet, on the worst riding day of the year? :rolleyes: kudos for going at it in the snow tho...

[attercoppe]

Getting back to the original point of the thread, I think that the only way to make a significant dent in the number of cars used to commute is to significantly increase gasoline taxes...

Or, maybe we could get people to not, for instance, live in Manhattan and drive to FRICKIN CONNECTICUT and back every day!

[adgrant]

I think they meant to highlight the fact that they bought a house close to work. With everything supposedly within a mile of their home, $20 per week is still too much.

Which was great, but a mile from work is a 15 minute or less walk.

[adgrant]

Or, maybe we could get people to not, for instance, live in Manhattan and drive to FRICKIN CONNECTICUT and back every day!

That would require cheaper public transport or more expensive gas. Why should I pay 50% more for a less flexible schedule and a standing room only commute. I would like to take the train on Fridays to avoid weekend traffic but public transport is even more expensive if I just wanted to take it a few times a week (around $25 a day round trip).

The other advantage to me of driving is I can drop by places like Costco on the way home and get to my dentist or our storage unit.

You should be happy that we are only using one car instead of two.

[TuckertonRR]

That would require cheaper public transport or more expensive gas. Why should I pay 50% more for a less flexible schedule and a standing room only commute. I would like to take the train on Fridays to avoid weekend traffic but public transport is even more expensive if I just wanted to take it a few times a week (around $25 a day round trip).

The other advantage to me of driving is I can drop by places like Costco on the way home and get to my dentist or our storage unit.

You should be happy that we are only using one car instead of two.

http://mta.info/mnr/html/planning/schedules/pdf/NewHaven_WD.pdf

Round trip to Waterbury CT is $31.36 Peak...$108.30 for a weekly pass.

The schedule looks pretty good to me, and yes, the prices are a bit steep, but it is New York pricing...and in the end, you'll save $$ by not driving so much....plus you can get a nap on the train!

[adgrant]

http://mta.info/mnr/html/planning/schedules/pdf/NewHaven_WD.pdf

Round trip to Waterbury CT is $31.36 Peak...$108.30 for a weekly pass.

The schedule looks pretty good to me, and yes, the prices are a bit steep, but it is New York pricing...and in the end, you'll save $$ by not driving so much....plus you can get a nap on the train!

I am not commuting to Waterbury, CT (fortunately). However, Peak round trip between Stamford and New York is $24.50 even though it is less than half the distance. I assume the CT Dept of Transport wishes to extract as much money as possible from residents of the much wealthier towns of Fairfield County. Reverse commuters pay a little less on a round trip basis because the trip back to the city is off-peak but the trip from the city is not. The round trip for a reverse commuter is $21.50. However, to that must be added the cost of the subway which is $4 for a total of $21.50. Weekly fare would be $84 and monthly would be $264. There is no reverse commuting discount for weekly and monthly fares. Monthly subway is $76.

I use less than 3 gallons of gas for the round trip by car and pay a $1 toll. The round trip by car is therefore costing me less than $10 a day. Which is less than half the cost of a round trip by public transport and since I make less than 20 round trips a month about two thirds of what it would cost if I didn't drive at all and had a monthly ticket. So in the end I will not save any money by not driving so much, instead it would be costing me money. Even if I owned on of those huge SUVs, the commute would probably only cost me $15 a day. I wouldn't be getting much sleep on the train either. Hard to sleep in a train that is standing room only.

Cars are expensive to own but if you own one, not driving it really doesn't save you money because gas is still so cheap in this country. This is probably why there are so many people commuting by car. In fact gas is so cheap, some people will actually use a huge SUV to commute 1.5 miles to work and pat themselves on the back for being frugal. OTOH at last SUV sales are plunging (Ford Explorer down 42%) and the used value of my AWD station wagon has not really changed in a few months. The traffic seems lighter too (I may just be imagining that though).

[wsexson]

90 minutes stuck in gridlock ... I hate driving.
+1

[wsexson]

"How 'Extreme Savers' save on gas"

'When settling down in Florida, the couple found a home about 1 mile from their place of work, with shops located between the two. The close proximity is "one of the reasons we chose this place to live."

The Parkers own a Nissan Xterra full sized SUV but with a one mile commute, gas costs them only $40 every two weeks. The cost is, by the Extreme Saver's own admission, "just lost in the noise...It doesn't even phase us."'
They live a mile from work and spend $80 a month on gasoline? :eek:

[wsexson]

Why are you trying to force your values on everyone else?
They are forcing their values on everyone else through pollution, traffic congestion, and taking up too much room in parking lots.

[adgrant]

:roflmao: They live a mile from work and spend $80 a month on gasoline? :eek:

And they (and CNN) think they are "Extreme Savers". :roflmao:

[Roody]

I am not commuting to Waterbury, CT (fortunately). However, Peak round trip between Stamford and New York is $24.50 even though it is less than half the distance. I assume the CT Dept of Transport wishes to extract as much money as possible from residents of the much wealthier towns of Fairfield County. Reverse commuters pay a little less on a round trip basis because the trip back to the city is off-peak but the trip from the city is not. The round trip for a reverse commuter is $21.50. However, to that must be added the cost of the subway which is $4 for a total of $21.50. Weekly fare would be $84 and monthly would be $264. There is no reverse commuting discount for weekly and monthly fares. Monthly subway is $76.

I use less than 3 gallons of gas for the round trip by car and pay a $1 toll. The round trip by car is therefore costing me less than $10 a day. Which is less than half the cost of a round trip by public transport and since I make less than 20 round trips a month about two thirds of what it would cost if I didn't drive at all and had a monthly ticket. So in the end I will not save any money by not driving so much, instead it would be costing me money. Even if I owned on of those huge SUVs, the commute would probably only cost me $15 a day. I wouldn't be getting much sleep on the train either. Hard to sleep in a train that is standing room only.

Cars are expensive to own but if you own one, not driving it really doesn't save you money because gas is still so cheap in this country. This is probably why there are so many people commuting by car. In fact gas is so cheap, some people will actually use a huge SUV to commute 1.5 miles to work and pat themselves on the back for being frugal. OTOH at last SUV sales are plunging (Ford Explorer down 42%) and the used value of my AWD station wagon has not really changed in a few months. The traffic seems lighter too (I may just be imagining that though).
You just don't get it, do you?

[adgrant]

You just don't get it, do you?

What exactly don't I get?

You seem to be the one having trouble grasping reality which is that 90% of commuter cars have single occupants because gas is too cheap, public transport too expensive and the roads not congested enough.

[TuckertonRR]

You just don't get it, do you?


Don't think he does. He's only taking into account the direct, 'marginal cost' of operating a car. He's not accounting for the 'capital', 'sunk' or 'environmental' costs of driving those kinds of miles every day.

BTW, adgrant, *are* you talking of taking the New Haven line to CT? or the other branch that goes to CT? I find it hard to belive the train is SRO (standing room only) on a reverse-commute to CT from GCT.

[TuckertonRR]

What exactly don't I get?

You seem to be the one having trouble grasping reality which is that 90% of commuter cars have single occupants because gas is too cheap, public transport too expensive and the roads not congested enough.


Actually, he is correct in this regard. Gas is still *too* cheap, transport *is* too expensive ..
Why?
-Not enough taxes on gas, and not enough Federal & State Support for good transit.

[adgrant]

Don't think he does. He's only taking into account the direct, 'marginal cost' of operating a car. He's not accounting for the 'capital', 'sunk' or 'environmental' costs of driving those kinds of miles every day.

BTW, adgrant, *are* you talking of taking the New Haven line to CT? or the other branch that goes to CT? I find it hard to belive the train is SRO (standing room only) on a reverse-commute to CT from GCT.

You are correct. I am not taking the sunk cost into account because the sunk costs are already sunk. If I was planning to buy a car specifically to commute with then I would of course take all costs into account. It could possibly be argued that in any two car family, the second car is automatically a commuter car but this is an only car. The car is well under its mileage allowance because last year I lived within walking distance of GCT and took the train.

I am not taking any 'environmental' costs into account since they cannot be quantified. Enviromental costs of car use should be reflected in gas taxes as they are in Western Europe.

Yes I am talking about the New Haven line which is the only line into CT. All the other branches are off this line and most require you to change trains at a station on the New Haven line. You may find this hard to believe During rush hour these trains are pretty full in both directions but it is normally possible to find a seat in the morning. A surprisingly large number of people reverse commute into CT from Manhattan or other parts of the City. In the evening the reverse commute crowd aren't the only people on the train particularly on Thursdays and Fridays. You are also forgetting that part of my commute is on the Subway and the 4/5/6 line which feeds GCT and 125th St is the most crowded subway line in the city (sometimes it can be hard to even get in the subway car).

Since Manhattan has a population of 1.5 million in an area of about 24 square miles (Philadelphia has about the same number of people in an area of about 143 square miles) and only one subway line on the eastside, a little overcrowding is to be expected.