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I have been riding solo for about 5 yrs now, my average speed is about 15-16 mph for 25 mile runs, just wondering how much faster you would go while riding in a group of say 10, and do you require as much energy to ride in a group. Is it true the the leader of the group is doing all the hard work and all the other riders are being pulled along by the draft?
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You can definitely go faster in a group ride, if you ride close enough behind other riders to take advantage of the reduced wind resistance. Close enough means that your front wheel is something like 6-18 inches off their back wheel. When you draft like that, you can travel at a given speed for something like 30% less effort than if you were riding solo.
In an ideal situation, you have a group of riders who are more or less evenly matched, and who take turns "pulling" at the front. Each takes a pull for awhile, then moves to the back of the group to let somebody else take a turn. I'm 5'10" and 145 pounds, and last night I was riding with a guy who's about 6'2" and 200-ish. He suffers on the uphills but screams past me on the downhills. We were on rolling terrain, and I would pull on the uphills, letting him draft behind me and giving him a break, and then he would pull on the downhills. We were screamin'.
Group riding isn't for everyone, but it can be tremendous fun if you get in with a good bunch of riders who are at the right level for you. And yeah, you'll definitely pick up several mph in your average speed.
It all depends. Say I went out on a group ride of 8 other guys like me and Lance Armstrong. I'm sure that Lance could go a lot faster all by himself so aren't helping him one bit. Now suppose I went out on a ride with nine other guys just like me and we worked together well over 25 miles. We should be able to go a couple of mph faster working together. It does take practise, though.
Give yourself some time to adapt to riding close to someone else. People tend to swerve to avoid debris or another rider or maybe while reaching for a water bottle. You might touch elbows with someone which can be startling at first. Be mindful of where your front wheel is in relation to the next guy's rear wheel. Things tend to change tempo for all kinds of reasons. You can't always see well up the road and will depend on people ahead of you to alert you to pavement problems, etc. You'll be inclined to ride a little faster than usual because the group will "carry you" with a kind of group motivation not to mention drafting effect.
As your group flows along evolving and changing shape, there can be a sweet sense of being part of something bigger, something almost organic. Of course, you might get dropped off the back of the group on your own. Nothing to be embarassed about...speed is relative and it might not have been your day or just a faster bunch you're not ready for. Generally, hang in as long as you can or care to.....as the training effect takes over, you'll find yourself, over time, hanging in longer and feeling you've won a place. Some groups make a point of stopping/slowing periodically for catch-ups.
All this stuff will occur to you as you ride with with groups....just don't get discouraged and enjoy your new dimension of cycling.
It is true that the person at the front of the paceline is doing harder work than those behind him or her, and if the paceline rotates the person at the front of the group on a regular and efficient basis, the entire group will likely ride faster... assuming each member of the group is exerting effort at or close to the normal amount exerted.
I'm wondering why, after five years of riding alone, you're thinking of switching to group rides. I think group rides are great things...but... I ride alone about 90% of the time. I find that it is one of the only places in my life where I can find solitude, something I cherish. But, as others have said on this forum often, we each ride for our own reasons.
In any event, my experience in group rides where riders have similar skills to mine is that you could achieve as much as 3 to 5 mhp differences. When I've ridden with riders who were much better than me (i.e., they pulled me along most of the way) there have been average speed increases as much as 8 to 10 mph.... and I was exhausted for hours after.
You certainly get an advantage drafting. The old rule of thumb is that the energy saved is 1% per mile per hour but that is not really too accurate. Generally there is little or no draft effect under 16 mph. The effect of the draft becomes greater the faster you go. Also, the larger the group, the greater the effect. The closer you draft, the greater the effect but you will still get an effect even 3' back or even a bit farther.
My two fastest centuries have been in groups (23 & 22 MPH AVG). I worked considerably harder on solo centuries of 19 & 20 MPH AVG. That might tell you something.
Now you don't always average higher speeds with groups. Some groups go very fast for awhile and then they slow way down. So although the max speed is impressive, the average speed is not.
Now pacelines can be dangerous. Riders do not always alert people behind them of road hazards like pot holes. Also certain riders, commonly known as "squirrels", are so erratic as to cause crashes. These are two of the major paceline hazards.
Pat
I ride weekdays with a buddy and we do a two rider paceline and working real hard we manage to average mid 18s to mid 19s depending on the wind over our 20mi. Riding at 21-25mph is a lot of work on these rides. On Sundays we ride with a 30 or so rider advanced group that rides double paceline for 40mi. We routinley cruise at 22-24mph with almost no effort when you are in the pack. You also can ride stronger when pulling since you will be pulling less time over the overall ride. The downside is that lights and hills can be a hassle as the group we go with works hard to maintain the group and not drop people. So that means slow starts off the lights, slowing if gaps open or waiting for weaker riders at times. There are sprint zones where its all out but then we regroup. The faster groups ride flat out and if your dropped good luck on your own. I plan to mix rides in the future and go with the fast group some days and the advanced group others since each has its own fun to it. I have to say that riding in a fast 20-30 rider group is a blast that you really can't get on your own.
Lots of good info and advice here. Going out for a group ride tomorrow and will report back when finished. But, I do want to warn you that there can be problems with group riding even with experienced folks. I was watching a tape of last year's Giro d'Ialia and there were crashes in the group on sucessive stages. First case, dry road, no cross wind, straight paceline. One moment of inattention - wheels touch and one rider crashes at speed (probably 25 mph +) face first into a guard rail. Major damage but did survive. Next day, dry road, no cross winds, big group. One moment of inattention, wheels touch and about 15 riders go down, but no one hurt. THEN a rider who was a bit off the back and charging to catch up rode FULL SPEED into one of his own team mates that had crashed and was remounting his bike. The head down idiot was hurt (not badly) but everyone else continued riding. Granted you will not be riding like these guys with their wheels actually overlapping, but do not get complacent. It only takes one second to wind up on the ground!
I commute daily, and do 15-25 mile rides often, averaging around 12-14 mph. On Tuesday nights I ride paceline and average 20 mph with much less effort than the 15 mph solo rides.
I commute daily, and do 15-25 mile rides often, averaging around 12-14 mph. On Tuesday nights I ride paceline and average 20 mph with much less effort than the 15 mph solo rides.
I ride offroad so speed cannot be compared to any of the road riders. I ride at weekends with a group and we do about 25 to 30 miles. Top of each hill, and there are enough of them, we stop to let the group collect. Mind you, the competitive riding that goes on up the hills- across the flat and downhills has to be seen to be believed. We all go at our pace though, and if we have any newcomers with us- we always get someone to ride with them. Speed will be good if we manage 10mph. but that is not the object of these rides.
Then there are the midweek rides that Stuart and I take on the Tandem. Can't call it a solo ride as its a Tandem (Duet?) but we do this ride on our own. We mainly go offroad for 30 miles, and try it with 2 hours of it nonstop. Average for this ride is 12 mph but it is a regular route taking in the severest hills. Occasionally we take a road ride instead and our area has plenty of short sharp climbs for about 1/2 a mile and long drags for about 1 mile. Downhill speed has to be kept down due to the narrowness of the road and the sharp turns and if we get a top speed of 30mph it is unusual. It is those hills we go for and we are improving on them. Average speed seems poor at around 15mph but in view of the hills and turns, we are quite happy.
I enjoy both types of riding but the most enjoyable for me are the summer rides where I go out Solo on the mountain bike. I can go at my pace, for my distance and put the amount of effort in that I enjoy. Funny thing is that these finish up being my fastest average speed as I do not have to chase the fit one up the hills- I do not have to stop to let everyone collect and lose momentum- and I do not wear myself out and do further distance than on the group rides.
If you ride with a group, and the group stops at Irma's or somewhere similar for pie, and you all sit at the counter, does the person at the front of the line make it easier for everyone else to eat 30% more pie? :D
If you ride with a group, and the group stops at Irma's or somewhere similar for pie, and you all sit at the counter, does the person at the front of the line make it easier for everyone else to eat 30% more pie? :D
Why Gary, I'll bet it does. What would be even better is if the person in the front of the line paid for 30% of your pie:D
Why Gary, I'll bet it does. What would be even better is if the person in the front of the line paid for 30% of your pie:D
You have friends that pay for your pie? Wish I did. Did an organised ride last week. Entered on the day and 4 of us went. At checkin- I was first in line and paid my dues. Second in line paid his- 3rd and 4th had forgotten Money in the wallet, I got away with that as 2nd in line paid for them. Then after the ride- I ordered 4 sandwiches and coffees- and I finished up paying for the lot.
Guess who's going to forget his wallet next week.
Yet another reason to ride solo- Its cheaper.
If you ride with a group, and the group stops at Irma's or somewhere similar for pie, and you all sit at the counter, does the person at the front of the line make it easier for everyone else to eat 30% more pie? :D
Depends. If that first person actually eats 30% of the pie, then there's less for the rest of the group. That person in the back is left with, well...
Steve
I have been riding solo for about 5 yrs now, my average speed is about 15-16 mph for 25 mile runs, just wondering how much faster you would go while riding in a group of say 10, and do you require as much energy to ride in a group. Is it true the the leader of the group is doing all the hard work and all the other riders are being pulled along by the draft?
Makes a huge difference in the amount of effort to go at a given speed. When you get comfortable at drafting, you'll find yourself darn near coasting along at the speed of the people in front of you. I can remember the first time I experienced it... I was drafting along, and thinking these guys are going slow, and wishing they would kick it up a notch or two. Then I'd look down and see the speedometer clocking 22-23mph :)
It's a pretty neat sensation. But, as someone else pointed out, you need to practice your group riding with some others at a slower pace.
Steve
I commute daily, and do 15-25 mile rides often, averaging around 12-14 mph. On Tuesday nights I ride paceline and average 20 mph with much less effort than the 15 mph solo rides.
Thats what I thought, thanks. I have no intentions of group riding but this answers a lot of questions for me, like all these posts on average speeds attained during rides, obviously a lot of these posted speeds are attained during group rides.
I have been riding solo for about 5 yrs now, my average speed is about 15-16 mph for 25 mile runs, just wondering how much faster you would go while riding in a group of say 10, and do you require as much energy to ride in a group. Is it true the the leader of the group is doing all the hard work and all the other riders are being pulled along by the draft?
If you were doing the same route at 15-16 solo, you'd probably be in the 18-20 range with a group. All the previous posts explain the reasons. Another one not mentioned is that you'll make more effort to stay with the pace of the group as well. You just ride faster than you normally would. Riding with a group can be pretty difficult if the group's skill level or conditioning is a lot higher.
There's no way to compare solo and group riding.
Every group and every ride/route would have it's own benefits and drawbacks.
Typically old people can't or won't ride well together. Reflexes and abilities of the elderly are diminished so you are at greater risk of causing or being involved in crashes. People over 50 need to take special care in they are going to ride near other cyclists or groups.
Typically old people can't or won't ride well together. Reflexes and abilities of the elderly are diminished so you are at greater risk of causing or being involved in crashes. People over 50 need to take special care in they are going to ride near other cyclists or groups.
Completely agree that old people have to take care when riding in a group. They keep scaring the S^*t out of the youngsters by the quality of their ride, their ability and their speed. Only comes with experience, Something that youngsters lack.
Mind you- it does not matter what your age is- if you are about to start group riding- Skills do have to be learnt to enable any one not to be a danger to other riders.
I promised a ride report on todays group ride. We met at 8 a.m. 29 degrees F. Supposed to be 7 of us but two were no shows (for whom we waited 25 minutes in the cold just standing around). Wind calm for about first 10 minutes of the ride then crosshead wind/head wind up to 20 mph for the next 17 miles. So the "group" ride turned out to be really two guys fighting the wind and waiting for the others to come along at various intervals. Well, at least the 17 miles back were kinda fun (but still chilly).
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