"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Tired of the Ullrich bashing by PEZ

Why does PEZ hate Jan Ullrich? Here's their latest:


The 2006 season has seen the latest start of racing yet for the German rider. The unconventional approach takes the ‘more training less racing’ philosophy to the extreme.

Yeah, let's conveniently forget about that knee injury and pretend he was sitting around eating ice cream all spring.

This article bashes him too: http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3960

They seem to take a shot at him whenever they can. I understand Jan has had a troubled past, but he came into this year in good shape and had some bad luck with a knee injury. How can you bash him for that? Quit living in the past, PEZ.

i'm pulllin' for the jan. i wish the'd give 'em a break too, but any press is good press. he'll use it to his advantage. (i hope). this is our big hype! who's in contention? who'd legs are there? who got sick? etc. i love it.

PEZ should be PUTZ.

Koffee

PEZ should be PUTZ.

Koffee

Does Pez suck monkey balls???

;)

It seems to me that every year Ullrich takes a bashing from people. I am quite sick of it too given the guys incredible accomplishments as a racer.

It seems to me that every year Ullrich takes a bashing from people.

well, from what i've been hearing, you won't have to worry about that next year.

Hopefully, this will be the scene in July...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/sunobj/Ullrich_stage13.jpg

jan takes more beef for coming in second than anyone else. just think of all the riders who over the years barely break top 20. nobodys hard on them. i guess that just comes with 2nd place. it's a rough position to be in.

jan takes more beef for coming in second than anyone else. just think of all the riders who over the years barely break top 20. nobodys hard on them. i guess that just comes with 2nd place. it's a rough position to be in.


I think that is more because Jan is perceived to have so much talent, and that the he seems to show up to the tour every year out of racing shape. For 99.9% of the pro's out there a podium is as good as win at the tour, but Jan is supposed to be more talented than LA. Weather it is true or not the perception of Jan is of a rider who doesn't work hard enough then pays the price during the race. If you look at Jan in '03 he showed up in 'racing' form and nearly took the title from Lance. His drug problems and perceived lack of discipline out of season have added the stereotype that he is immensely talented but somewhat lazy.

If you look at Jan in '03 he showed up in 'racing' form and nearly took the title from Lance.

He showed up fit, and Armstrong was in his worst TdF form of his 7 wins.


he is immensely talented but somewhat lazy.

There's no somewhat's about it. He is lazy, or completely unmotivated if that suits you better ;)

He showed up fit, and Armstrong was in his worst TdF form of his 7 wins.



There's no somewhat's about it. He is lazy, or completely unmotivated if that suits you better ;)


Hey I'm trying to be objective here! ;) My personal feelings are much like yours. I feel that there are guys who just put in the work and that's how they get the results, Jan in my book isn't one of those guys. My best friend is the most talented cyclist I personally know. He really doesn't eat or train like you would expect he would based on his ability on the bike. Some people are just gifted, I told him the other day that I bust my butt, sacrifice beer and desert just to be 90% of him when he's having an average day. My guess is that there is some of that feeling in the peleton toward Jan. Most of these guys live the life and never see the top 10 of the Tour GC while Jan can come in fat, dumb and happy and still score a podium. Believe me I'll bet if you asked Vino, or Landis if 5 TdF podiums would be something they'd feel proud about they'd tell you hell yes.

Despite the fact that there are really only a handful of riders out there that have resumes similar to his, everyone says he can't cut it, he needs to train harder, he is lazy, doesn't have the will to win, etc. I think all that pressure is getting to him. Maybe he is starting to believe it and thats why he comes to the tour out of form or can't/won't win the big races.

Despite the fact that there are really only a handful of riders out there that have resumes similar to his, everyone says he can't cut it, he needs to train harder, he is lazy, doesn't have the will to win, etc. I think all that pressure is getting to him. Maybe he is starting to believe it and thats why he comes to the tour out of form or can't/won't win the big races.


I don't buy that explanation. He's paid a boat load of money to win the Tour. Michael Schumacher is the highest paid (salary) athlete on the planet, yet he tests more than the Ferrari test drivers. He puts in max effort and has been rewarded with 7 world championships, more wins, more poles etc etc. Lance is also and extremely gifted athlete and he put in the time, lived the life and was rewarded with 7 consecutive TdF's. What gets people all riled up about Jan is that he perceived to be even more talented than Lance and if had put in the effort he'd have beaten Lance instead of the other way round.

First, I think Jan is a great rider and in the top miniscule percentage of the best who ever rode a bike. The history of cycling will always include mention of Jan as one of the greats. I also think, however, that we have already seen his best.

He's an easy target.

I heart Jan.

i get peeved at the food jokes, like photo captions 'Here's jan grabbing his food bag" or showing him eating his energy bar like he's Henry the VIII eating one of those big lamb chops. What's he supposed to do... fast during a week long stage race??

I think that is more because Jan is perceived to have so much talent, and that the he seems to show up to the tour every year out of racing shape. For 99.9% of the pro's out there a podium is as good as win at the tour, but Jan is supposed to be more talented than LA. Weather it is true or not the perception of Jan is of a rider who doesn't work hard enough then pays the price during the race. If you look at Jan in '03 he showed up in 'racing' form and nearly took the title from Lance. His drug problems and perceived lack of discipline out of season have added the stereotype that he is immensely talented but somewhat lazy.

Yep. that's the perception in Europe, he's lacking the disicipline he needs to win. He's already started making excuses for the Giro next week.

Yep. that's the perception in Europe, he's lacking the disicipline he needs to win. He's already started making excuses for the Giro next week.

Excuses like the fact that he's not in it to contest the GC? He's said that since he knew he was doing the Giro. He's not going to be stupid and try a double.

Hey I'm trying to be objective here! ;) ... My best friend is the most talented cyclist I personally know. He really doesn't eat or train like you would expect he would based on his ability on the bike. Some people are just gifted, I told him the other day that I bust my butt, sacrifice beer and desert just to be 90% of him when he's having an average day....

You sacrifice Beer????

You sacrifice Beer????

Yep! This has been my abuse week, since I just finished my 'A+++' race of the season, I've gone off the hook! Beer, icecream, I even ate a doughnut! I know this sound nutty but I'm 44 competing for the most part with 20 somethings so I can't spot them anything! I get two weeks off in September too!

I think people overlook the big picture. We praise Armstrong endlessly for his motivation, work ethic, and his ability to make sacrifices. But at what expense does that come? To win he had to become an ultra-obsessive dick who rarely saw his kids and wife, etc. I bet Jan is a much more well adjusted, mentally stable person whose self worth isn't completely and utterly entwined with his palmares, yet we knock him constantly for not living up to his "potential."

I think people overlook the big picture. We praise Armstrong endlessly for his motivation, work ethic, and his ability to make sacrifices. But at what expense does that come? To win he had to become an ultra-obsessive dick who rarely saw his kids and wife, etc. I bet Jan is a much more well adjusted, mentally stable person whose self worth isn't completely and utterly entwined with his palmares, yet we knock him constantly for not living up to his "potential."

Aren't you engaging in the same type of theorizing about both *men*? If we must have heroes, we need not have them for dessert.

i think theworm is right... lance was willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING to win seven tours and have his name in history. it's true, his marriage ended, he never saw his kids, and who knows what kind of toll it took on him physically. Lance has even said he doesn't think he'll live very long. His entire life was about winning the tour. It's not a question of better, but they're two different guys with different goals.

And it also seems sometimes that jan does have bum luck. Last year he was doing pretty well but had a crash just before the tour... he suffered like hell and made it to the podium. The year before, he caught a cold from his kid just before the tour, but remember he was in great form and won the tour of switzerland. It was just bad timing to get a cold and it's not like doing a grand tour is good for a cold. He does seem to have bad luck with injuries and accidents.

To win he had to become an ultra-obsessive dick

I'm not sure about the his being a dick part but if you've ever read anything about LA the ultra-obsessive/competitive/combative personality has been with him since childhood.

As for Jan being well adjusted, well we don't know that for sure do we. None of us know the man. All we can say for sure is that he has consistently come to the Tour in less than race condition. For a professional who gets paid millions of dollars to win one race a year I think we can objectively say that is unacceptable. In 2003 Jan came to the tour in his best condition since winning it in 97. He came in second and nobody citied him. Had he had a better team things might have been different for him.

II bet Jan is a much more well adjusted, mentally stable person whose self worth isn't completely and utterly entwined with his palmares, yet we knock him constantly for not living up to his "potential." Well say what you want about Armstrong, there are lots of rumors out there. But to say Jan is well adjusted and mentally stable might be a stretch. Lets see, DUI - busted; ecstacy - busted; split from girlfriend and their baby - busted. Personally I think it anyone who works as hard and has such a horrible travel schedule as the top pro bike riders and IS normal should be saluted.

I'm not sure about the his being a dick part but if you've ever read anything about LA the ultra-obsessive/competitive/combative personality has been with him since childhood.

As for Jan being well adjusted, well we don't know that for sure do we. None of us know the man. All we can say for sure is that he has consistently come to the Tour in less than race condition. For a professional who gets paid millions of dollars to win one race a year I think we can objectively say that is unacceptable.

Combative personality = being a dick
There are plenty of examples of it: the climb up Brasstown Bald at TdG in 2005, stage 18 TdF 2004
Just because he was born with this attitude doesn't justify it. A jerk is a jerk.

I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.

But to say that Ullrich has come to the TdF in less than race condition is absolutely ridiculous. No one out of race condition could ever perform like he has the past decade. Jan's only problem is that he wasn't able to beat a man that was so absolutely dead set on winning the race that everything else took a back seat. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not "unacceptable."

You are participating in the very same Jan-bashing that this thread was created about. Quit it.

I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.
Surely you don't mean to imply that there is such a clear-cut dichotomy between being a jerk and being well-adjusted. That is, there are many people who are not well adjusted, though they are not jerks either. Just because Jan is not a jerk (assuming he isn't), does not necessarily mean he is well adjusted.

You guys don't get it, do you? My point is this:

Yes, Jan made questionable decisions in the past, but no, it's not fair to jump on him this year for all of that. He came into this season in great shape and as luck would have it, he injured his knee. The injury was bad luck, not him being lazy or wasting his talent.

He finally did the right thing, but nobody gives him credit for it.

Surely you don't mean to imply that there is such a clear-cut dichotomy between being a jerk and being well-adjusted. That is, there are many people who are not well adjusted, though they are not jerks either. Just because Jan is not a jerk (assuming he isn't), does not necessarily mean he is well adjusted.


I have sorta been interchanging the two, huh?

To clarify, and again, this is all complete speculation, but thats what we all do here anyway:

Jan Ullrich doesn't seem to be a jerk.
Jan Ullrich also seems to be well-adjusted, i.e. his life doesn't begin and end with the Tour de France.

I can't quite say the same for Lance.

You guys don't get it, do you? My point is this:

Yes, Jan made questionable decisions in the past, but no, it's not fair to jump on him this year for all of that. He came into this season in great shape and as luck would have it, he injured his knee. The injury was bad luck, not him being lazy or wasting his talent.

He finally did the right thing, but nobody gives him credit for it.

Old habits die hard.

Combative personality = being a dick
There are plenty of examples of it: the climb up Brasstown Bald at TdG in 2005, stage 18 TdF 2004
Just because he was born with this attitude doesn't justify it. A jerk is a jerk.
I was just speculating that Jan is well adjusted, based on the fact that we haven't seen the same sort of behavior out of Ullrich than we have from Lance. I could be wrong and he might be a bigger jerk than Lance. I doubt it, though.

But to say that Ullrich has come to the TdF in less than race condition is absolutely ridiculous. No one out of race condition could ever perform like he has the past decade. Jan's only problem is that he wasn't able to beat a man that was so absolutely dead set on winning the race that everything else took a back seat. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not "unacceptable."

You are participating in the very same Jan-bashing that this thread was created about. Quit it.
I think LA's attitude is tame compared with a fiery Italian or Belgian rider. You think Merkx got called "Cannibal" by mistake?

Combative personality = being a dick
.


Well this winter I had the opportunity to ride with Lance for about an hour. He split off from the Disco guys and was heading back to Austin and I rode with him. He was anything but a dick. We talked about life, kids, Austin and Cali (I'm from So Cal). It was just two guys riding bike shoot'n the s#$t. He is definitely a hard competitor that shows little or no mercy for the guys he races against. I'm not a LA worshiper but for you to say he's a dick and Jan is such a great guy without ever spending anytime with either of them is a bit of stretch. I don't claim to know LA any more than I claim to know Jan but past is prologe and Jan has a very public history of showing up to the Tour underprepared.

I think LA's attitude is tame compared with a fiery Italian or Belgian rider. You think Merkx got called "Cannibal" by mistake?


Merckx was called "The Cannibal" because he raced flat out all the time. The examples I cited were not about Armstrong being a fiery competitor, but an immature jerk.

Well this winter I had the opportunity to ride with Lance for about an hour. He split off from the Disco guys and was heading back to Austin and I rode with him. He was anything but a dick. We talked about life, kids, Austin and Cali (I'm from So Cal). It was just two guys riding bike shoot'n the s#$t. He is definitely a hard competitor that shows little or no mercy for the guys he races against. I'm not a LA worshiper but for you to say he's a dick and Jan is such a great guy without ever spending anytime with either of them is a bit of stretch. I don't claim to know LA any more than I claim to know Jan but past is prologe and Jan has a very public history of showing up to the Tour underprepared.

I shouldn't have called LA a dick, because that isn't my point. If these two guys weren't sports personalities and were "ordinary" dudes, you'd think LA was insane and that Jan was normal. My assumptions are based purely on the behavior I have seen them exhibit in the public eye. And everyone rags on Jan for being "underprepared", which is bullcrap. He is only underprepared in relation to Armstrong, a guy was willing to do anything to win (which isn't a good thing).

I shouldn't have called LA a dick, because that isn't my point. If these two guys weren't sports personalities and were "ordinary" dudes, you'd think LA was insane and that Jan was normal. My assumptions are based purely on the behavior I have seen them exhibit in the public eye. And everyone rags on Jan for being "underprepared", which is bullcrap. He is only underprepared in relation to Armstrong, a guy was willing to do anything to win (which isn't a good thing).
It's been well documented in the media and here that Ullrich showed up at 04 TDF heavy and off form from previous years. Nothing wrong with that, I like the guy, but aren't the top ten riders there to try and win?

It's been well documented in the media and here that Ullrich showed up at 04 TDF heavy and off form from previous years. Nothing wrong with that, I like the guy, but aren't the top ten riders there to try and win?

Yeah, I'm sure Jan didn't care and was just out for a three week joy ride.

believe me when i say this, because i have some connections that are closer than you, or anyone in, Ohio will ever be, that the man is flawed, and has to take some resposibility for the choices that HE has made.




You guys don't get it, do you? My point is this:

If Ullrich were to come to the tour this year in the shape he was in '03, or even close, and give him a team for support (did you EVER see a Bianchi rider ANYWHERE near him other than the TTT?) he will win by ten minutes. Unfortunately... I don't think thats gonna happen, but I'm still gonna be rooting for him.

believe me when i say this, because i have some connections that are closer than you, or anyone in, Ohio will ever be, that the man is flawed, and has to take some resposibility for the choices that HE has made.

Alright, so with your wonderful connections, name some of those choices that he made this year.

believe me when i say this, because i have some connections that are closer than you, or anyone in, Ohio will ever be, that the man is flawed, and has to take some resposibility for the choices that HE has made.

How does that make him any different from the rest of us?

How does that make him any different from the rest of us?

The only thing different about him, is that he could destroy each and every one of us...even with a bad knee. That and he gets to drive a nice Audi for free...

Living up to your potential or not...it must be pretty cool to be one of the greatest riders to ever sit on a bike seat.

i think theworm is right... lance was willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING to win seven tours and have his name in history.


every pro in TDF makes those sacrifices. Without exception.

And it continues:


Riding the Giro and finishing the Giro could be very good for Ullrich. The veteran could very well ride himself into form over the three weeks, unfortunately, he'll have the eyes of bike racing fans everywhere firmly glued on his solid build. Nothing like suffering into form and having the whole world watch you...and have cycling journalists (ahem) the world over criticize you every step of the way.

Jeez dude, if you only did it Basso-style, it would be so simple.

That's funny, I don't recall Basso suffering from a knee injury.

And like I said before, the fact that he's willing to do these races when he's not in top form takes a lot of balls. I think he deserves some props for that.

Check how VeloNews covered the same story:


Former Tour de France winner Jan Ullrich said he was satisfied with his performance on his comeback from injury despite finishing almost last at the Tour of Romandie which ended on Sunday.

photo: AFP
Ullrich finished 115th out of the 120 riders who completed all six days of the tour and ended up around 50 minutes behind winner Cadel Evans and fellow Tour de France hopeful Alejandro Valverde who was third.

The German T-Mobile rider, who won the sport's flagship event back in 1997 and has finished runner-up five times, will now continue his tune-up for the French showpiece at the Tour of Italy next month, which again he is not expecting to challenge in.

"It was a great success for me to finish this stage," said Ullrich after Sunday's time-trial. "My knee held up well and I will tackle the Tour of Italy with determination to increase my strength and to improve."

The 32-year-old injured his knee at the beginning of March in a training crash.

"This was a very difficult course but I tackled it. Even the last stage, a time-trial, was difficult," added Ullrich, a time-trial specialist.

The German finished 69th at 2min 28sec off Evans in the time-trial, an event he would normally be expected to win with ease, were he in his usual condition.

Ullrich struggled on this tour, his first race of the season, particularly on Saturday when there were three first category climbs. He finished that stage 25 minutes behind winner Valverde.

"Jan showed a lot of courage and determination in making his comeback in such a hard race. Few riders could have done that," said T-Mobile sporting director Rudy Pevenage.

A lot more fair, isn't it?

Quit living in the past, PEZ.


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