Tandem Cycling - Question about touchy drivetrain and chainline

Last week we finally had a chance to have a real ride on our 05 Dale RT. On one of the climbs we dropped the chain shifting into the granny gear. We were able to get going again, but not after some difficulty and a drivetrain what would skip several teeth on each revolution. Once we were home we found a twisted chain, then after replacing the chain we found a bent inner chainring. I was able to straighten the chainring out to make it workable and readjusted everything to allow it to shift properly. I have the rear derailleur working perfectly, but the front simply will not adjust enough to eliminate chain noise and rub on some part of the cage. I have a triple on my Ti single bike and know how to adjust it, and one thing I have noticed is that the trim click is in between different gears on the 9 speed to 10 speed. The 105 front derailleur on the Dale is a double, not the triple, and I don't think the cage is wide enough to ever get it noiseless.

A couple of questions: How do you get the front adjusted to be noiseless and shift better? Did anyone replace the 105 Derailleur with a Triple? The chainline seems to be skewed toward the inside cogs, is this normal? I ask this because the outer chainring seems to line up with the fourth cog on the rear cluster. This puts lot's of pressure on the chain when in the middle chainring and the smaller rear cogs. Also has anyone else chainged the rear cluster? The gaps seem to be too wide from gear to gear. Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

Coordinated shifting on a climb takes communication between captain and his stocker - what you are describing is common as teams start out together - in my case it cost be a new wrecked rear xtr der, a broken chain, and some lost paint on a new bike. My riding buddies all deal with it differently - some only use bar end shifting, others switch to campy shifters, in my case I installed second eyes a device which keeps a chain from jumping off when my shifting is off some. More than anything I worked with my stocker on communication so she backs off some as we down shift going into a incline - it takes practice.

Sounds like a typical newbie shifting technique issue that every tandem team has to work through. Plus, shifting is hampered by a less-than-ideal 105 STI lever.

First, as far as shifting technique is concerned, it is best to shift into the chain ring you are going to climb in before starting the climb. Sometimes this will mean you loose some flat or down hill speed, but you save a lot of wear and tear on the equipment if you get in the granny (if need be) without a lot of load on the chain. As stated above, it takes some team coordination in the form of soft-pedalling for a moment to help facilitate the shift (a good idea for any tandem chainring downshifts). From the damage you are describing, it sounds like you may have cross-chained somewhat from the granny to a small cog on the cassette which will impart a side load on the granny ring and bend it.

Now, I would be really surprised if your tandem was equipped with a double - not a triple - front derailleur. The issue is not with the derailleur per say, it is with the lack of trim adjustment on the 105 STI lever. I had the same issue on my KHS and solved the problem permanently by ditching the left 105 STI lever for a Campy ERGO lever. Campy ERGO is not indexed on the left lever, so you can trim to your hearts content and run cross-chained without rub (not advised!).

An alternative to the Campy lever would be to upgrade to a higher-level left STI lever which I believe has more trim stops.

A couple of questions: How do you get the front adjusted to be noiseless and shift better? Did anyone replace the 105 Derailleur with a Triple? The chainline seems to be skewed toward the inside cogs, is this normal? I ask this because the outer chainring seems to line up with the fourth cog on the rear cluster. This puts lot's of pressure on the chain when in the middle chainring and the smaller rear cogs. Also has anyone else chainged the rear cluster? The gaps seem to be too wide from gear to gear. Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

Your front derailleur should be a 105 triple and your shifters should be the Ultegra STI triples -- noting that it's the left-hand STI shifter that establishes where the hard stops and trim positions are for the front derailleur, not the derailleur; what makes you think FD is not triple? Are you comparing 2006 10spd components to 2005 9spd... ? (noting that they are different)

Regardless, I believe you bought this tandem new in December of '05. Have you taken it back to your dealer or at least spoken to them about your concerns and problems? If they somehow delivered it with the wrong front derailleur or shifters then they should be taking care of that for you. If they failed to set up the shifting correctly, same thing.

Any way, as for reducing chain rub, there are some gear combinations that will always produce chain rub (middle w/smallest cogs) due to a tandem's wider (145mm) rear axle spacing and off-set chain line that you've already taken note of. In most cases, the chain rubs on the larger chain ring, not the derailleur cage. The other limitation is that you can't run in the mid to lower rear cogs from the granny ring without dragging the chain. In both cases, these are simply excessive cross-over chain positions that you must learn to avoid by managing your front chain position, i.e., run the lower 1/2 of the cog from the big chain ring, run the mid-range cogs from the middle chain ring, and use the granny with the upper 1/3rd of the cassette. Aside from that, you should be able to get most of the other gear combinations dialed-in with a 105 triple if the cage is properly aligned with the largest chain ring via the barrel adjuster on the downtube cable stop.

As for the "gaps", I'm assuming you're referring to the gear steps on what I suspect is the stock 11x34t cassette: yeah, they're huge. While the "Mega-Range" 11x34t is appealing to most "average" tandem buyers, teams that are long-time roadies tend to change the gearing. We use a 12x27t and will go to a 12x32t with a 32t granny ring (54/44/32 chainring set-up) when we head for the mountains. We ride with some other very fit couples who use 12x25t as their default when not touring.

If you're just pining to upgrade the thing to 10 speed, that's a different issue. While there are some additional trim positions on the 10 speed triple shifters, you'll still have some chainline issues and may still have problems with dropped chains if there is -- as I suspect -- some technique issues you and your stoker need to work on. Here's an old post where I talk about front shifting technique that may be of some help. You can disregard the last 1/2 of the post which talks about barcons.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=229865&postcount=9

Hey, my 105 brifter shifts the triple just fine. What am I doing wrong??? :-o

-Greg

Coordinated shifting on a climb takes communication between captain and his stocker - what you are describing is common as teams start out together - in my case it cost be a new wrecked rear xtr der, a broken chain, and some lost paint on a new bike. My riding buddies all deal with it differently - some only use bar end shifting, others switch to campy shifters, in my case I installed second eyes a device which keeps a chain from jumping off when my shifting is off some. More than anything I worked with my stocker on communication so she backs off some as we down shift going into a incline - it takes practice.

vosyer, thank you for the insight, but the original problem was from a poorly adjusted front derailleur. This was my fault as I had removed the front derailleur and messed around with it and then got distracted when I replaced it and forgot to readjust the limit screws. So it was set too far inside and dropped the chain. I also lost some paint on the new bike, but that is the price we pay. As a result of my negligence, I had a twisted chain and bent inner chainring.


Sounds like a typical newbie shifting technique issue that every tandem team has to work through. Plus, shifting is hampered by a less-than-ideal 105 STI lever.

First, as far as shifting technique is concerned, it is best to shift into the chain ring you are going to climb in before starting the climb. Sometimes this will mean you loose some flat or down hill speed, but you save a lot of wear and tear on the equipment if you get in the granny (if need be) without a lot of load on the chain. As stated above, it takes some team coordination in the form of soft-pedalling for a moment to help facilitate the shift (a good idea for any tandem chainring downshifts). From the damage you are describing, it sounds like you may have cross-chained somewhat from the granny to a small cog on the cassette which will impart a side load on the granny ring and bend it.

Now, I would be really surprised if your tandem was equipped with a double - not a triple - front derailleur. The issue is not with the derailleur per say, it is with the lack of trim adjustment on the 105 STI lever. I had the same issue on my KHS and solved the problem permanently by ditching the left 105 STI lever for a Campy ERGO lever. Campy ERGO is not indexed on the left lever, so you can trim to your hearts content and run cross-chained without rub (not advised!).

An alternative to the Campy lever would be to upgrade to a higher-level left STI lever which I believe has more trim stops.

galen_52657, we are working on our shiftin technique, as a result our ride yesterday was uneventful except for the lack of trim clicks from the front shifter. You are also correct it is not a double as I had first stated it is a FD-5504 Triple front derailleur. It does have Ultegra 9 speed STI levers, not 105. It is very possible that there was some extreme chainline angle as a result of my shifting. Our tandem has a "Rapid-Rise" XTR rear derailleur which of course works in the proper direction when shifted, unlike the other Shimano derailleurs which work backwards. It does take me a few miles to adjust to the reverse rear shift pattern when moving from my single bikes to the tandem.


Your front derailleur should be a 105 triple and your shifters should be the Ultegra STI triples -- noting that it's the left-hand STI shifter that establishes where the hard stops and trim positions are for the front derailleur, not the derailleur; what makes you think it's not? Are you comparing 2006 components to 2005... noting that they are different?

Regardless, I believe you bought this tandem new in December of '05. Have you taken it back to your dealer or at least spoken to them about your concerns and problems? If they somehow delivered it with the wrong front derailleur or shifters then they should be taking care of that for you. If they failed to set up the shifting correctly, same thing.

Any way, as for reducing chain rub, there are some gear combinations that will always produce chain rub (middle w/smallest cogs) due to a tandem's wider (145mm) rear axle spacing and off-set chain line that you've already taken note of. In most cases, the chain rubs on the larger chain ring, not the derailleur cage. The other limitation is that you can't run in the mid to lower rear cogs from the granny ring without dragging the chain. In both cases, these are simply excessive cross-over chain positions that you must learn to avoid by managing your front chain position, i.e., run the lower 1/2 of the cog from the big chain ring, run the mid-range cogs from the middle chain ring, and use the granny with the upper 1/3rd of the cassette. Aside from that, you should be able to get most of the other gear combinations dialed-in with a 105 triple if the cage is properly aligned with the largest chain ring via the barrel adjuster on the downtube cable stop.

As for the "gaps", I'm assuming you're referring to the gear steps on what I suspect is the stock 11x34t cassette: yeah, they're huge. While the "Mega-Range" 11x34t is appealing to most "average" tandem buyers, teams that are long-time roadies tend to change the gearing. We use a 12x27t and will go to a 12x32t with a 32t granny ring (54/44/32 chainring set-up) when we head for the mountains. We ride with some other very fit couples who use 12x25t as their default when not touring.

If you're just pining to upgrade the thing to 10 speed, that's a different issue. While there are some additional trim positions on the 10 speed triple shifters, you'll still have some chainline issues and may still have problems with dropped chains if there is -- as I suspect -- some technique issues you and your stoker need to work on. Here's an old post where I talk about front shifting technique that may be of some help. You can disregard the last 1/2 of the post which talks about barcons.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=229865&postcount=9

TandemGeek, that is exactly what I am doing, comparing 2004 Ultegra 9 Speed levers with 2006 Ultegra 10 speed levers. On the 9 speed there is a trim click between the inner and middle chainring. On the 10 speed there is a trim click between the middle and outer cog. Very different, and since we are relatively flat here we spend more time in the middle and outer chainrings and very little time in the inner. I may have to replace the left lever with a 6603 lever if it becomes too much of an annoyance.

We are learning about the gears to avoid, so there is some of that also. On the '05 there are no downtube cable adjusters, there are those long inline adjusters near the levers. As those adjusters were unsightly, they were replaced with Jagwire Rocket Adjusters, which besides looking better seem to work just as well as those inline adjusters.

Those gaps I was referring to are exactly that. I simply cannot get comfortable with the gaps from one rear gear to another. I will most likely have to change the rear cluster to a 12-27. I have also decided to change some of the front gearing, the 05 is equiped with a 52/42/30. I will most likely switch the outer to a 53T, leave the middle at 42T since we have more power to deliver and a 39T or 40T is usually not necessary with the granny 30T. On our single bikes we seem to be able to handle (= moving faster than walking pace) all of the little hills here with 39-21 on our single bikes. I am not really interested in changing out to 10 speed, but I might for the sake of consistency.

On the 9 speed there is a trim click between the inner and middle chainring. On the 10 speed there is a trim click between the middle and outer cog. Very different, and since we are relatively flat here we spend more time in the middle and outer chainrings and very little time in the inner.

That doesn't sound right. Given that I don't use Shimano shifters I can't go out and check this, but I'm pretty sure that even the '04 Ultegra triple should have four detents: two hard stops for the big chain ring and middle chain ring, and a trim position between the granny & middle as well as the middle and big. The 10 speed triple stuff has at least six detents: two hard stops for the big chain ring and middle chain ring, and two trim positions between the granny & middle as well as the middle and big.

FWIW: While there's no indication of this in your post, if the front derailleur cable gets routed to the wrong (in/right) side of the FD arm's pinch bolt, the front shifter's performance can end up being incredibly sluggish, the index points won't work under the heavy cable tension, and the FD will tend to throw the chain past the granny ring and into the BB shell with a big clunk.

I agree with going with the Campag left shift lever. I rode my Trek 5200 with Ultegra right and Campag left brake/shifter levers for a season before I finally upgraded to Campag 10 for the right lever and r. derailleur. The Shimano front shifter worked incredibly better with the Campag ratchet-technology shifter (I'm still using the Shimano front), but this is with two chainrings, not three.

But now the tandem problem I have relates to the point made above about shifting to the granny with no pedal pressure. I'm currently using a Campag economy-model front derailleur made in the 80's (Victory or Triumph?). Quite often, I'll announce the intention to engage the granny, we start soft-pedaling, I push down hard on the left Campag thumb lever, and - if the road slopes uphill at all - nothing happens; the chain stays in the middle (46) ring (the granny is a 36 for now until I find a 32 or something) and the bike goes slower and slower until I shift back to the middle ring and we start hammering harder on the pedals. The chain is usually on or near the big cog in back (8 cogs).

Now, I realize that Campagnolo has always had a problem with its front derailleurs. Back in the 70's, they were notorious for sticking in the big ring in the rain. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Probably not enough spring pressure. I'm wondering if I should replace the Campag front with a more recent model or with Shimano, assuming it's more reliable in this regard. Any opinions?

- L.

Quite often, I'll announce the intention to engage the granny, we start soft-pedaling,

Are you sure that we really are soft pedalling? Stokers are notorious for keeping pedal pressure on or even increasing it when the captain softpedals. Moreover, if you want until you are loosing momentum the likelihood of the stoker keeping pressure on the pedals is even greater.

Early on, Debbie being a non-cyclist didn't know what the heck I meant when I said "soft pedal" or "ease up" until I fully explained it. It made all the difference in the world once she did.

That doesn't sound right. Given that I don't use Shimano shifters I can't go out and check this, but I'm pretty sure that even the '04 Ultegra triple should have four detents: two hard stops for the big chain ring and middle chain ring, and a trim position between the granny & middle as well as the middle and big. The 10 speed triple stuff has at least six detents: two hard stops for the big chain ring and middle chain ring, and two trim positions between the granny & middle as well as the middle and big.

FWIW: While there's no indication of this in your post, if the front derailleur cable gets routed to the wrong (in/right) side of the FD arm's pinch bolt, the front shifter's performance can end up being incredibly sluggish, the index points won't work under the heavy cable tension, and the FD will tend to throw the chain past the granny ring and into the BB shell with a big clunk.


Okay, I went out and rechecked for the second time. The Shimano 6503 lever has 4 detents, which means it has five positions. But it only seems to hit those detents with the big lever. So you can trim from the lowest which is of course the inner chainring (granny) to the middle, and from the middle to the big, but going the other way no matter how light a touch, you will miss the outer to middle trim detent. Then I rechecked where the noise is coming from. TandemGeek, you are correct, it is not from the chain rubbing against the front derailleur cage, it is from the chain rubbing against the outer chainring. Seems to me the only way to "fix" this is to go to a 10 speed chain, which will reduce the width to 6.1 mm or use a Campagnolo Ultra narrow chain reducing chain width further to 5.9 mm. Both ideas seam plausible, but do not seem like it would really make much difference in the real world.

It seems odd to me that with the resulting increase in axle width to 145 mm that the drive crank was also not moved further outbound to take up some of the ridiculous offset from crank to rear cluster. 145 mm is a whole 15mm more than a single bike and should call for a bottom bracket spindle at least that much wider or even maginally wider than a standard triple. According to the Truvativ specs for the Elita tandem crank the chainline is at 48.6 mm or a whole 2.1 mm wider than their standard triple, and 4.1 mm wider than their standard double. It seems to me that Cannondale and Truvativ have made choices that seem better suited to the nearly unfit recreational rider. Forcing you to smaller gears if you want a quiet ride.

I have finally figured out why people on this forum say your first tandem is just a starting point to grow from. Now with the helpful info on this board I have some decisions to make. I have readjusted the tops and cable tension to make life more bearable while pedaling the tandem. It certainly is a very different breed of bicycle than any single bike. At least I learned a few things today, and for that I am truly grateful.

Both ideas seam plausible, but do not seem like it would really make much difference in the real world.

The juice ain’t worth the squeeze… Just recognize that when you hear the chain rubbing it’s your tandem telling you to double shift (downshift the rear / upshift the front) to the big ring.


It seems odd to me that with the resulting increase in axle width to 145 mm that the drive crank was also not moved further outbound to take up some of the rediculous offset from crank to rear cluster.

Santana – who uses 160mm rear spacing – ended up developing a special front derailleur clamp a few years back (’99 - ’00?) that works with bolt-on front derailleurs to help mitigate the problems associated with chain rub on big ring and difficult shifting into the big ring. Hand-in-hand with the “Far-Out” clamp that offsets the front derailleur an additional 6mm were a wider set of crank spindles. Santana sells them for about $30; however, you need to have an oversized seat tube for the clamp to fit, a bolt-on FD, and of course a couple new bottom brackets.

The downside of this "fix" is that it can give cyclists who are sensitive to wide "Q-Factor" (aka, tread or crank width) knee and or hip discomfort. Fortunately, most cyclists aren't all that sensitive to Q-Factor but, for the ones who are and didn't know it, often times stoking on a tandem with a wide crank axle will be a harsh wake-up call.

Bottom Line: Tandems are a bit different.

But now the tandem problem I have relates to the point made above about shifting to the granny with no pedal pressure. I'm currently using a Campag economy-model front derailleur made in the 80's (Victory or Triumph?). Quite often, I'll announce the intention to engage the granny, we start soft-pedaling,
- L.

For us to get into granny will mean that we are going to need it shortly. There is no way it will change under pressure and if we are already going uphill, we will not be able to change into it. My pilot will always give warning that we are going into granny- release pressure for half a turn on the pedals and also go up two gears on the rear cassette. This is done before we need it and we learnt this method by going up too many offroad 15%ers in middle ring. I have to admit that in our early days we damaged several large rings on the cassette by Graunchy gear changes. Have yet to damage a chain, but I dare say we have that joy to come.

I am running the stock 105 8 speed STI lever on the right, old Campy ERGO on the left, 105 front derailleur, some mid-low range Shimano mt rear derailleur and 53/42/30 chainrings. The Milano has 160mm rear spacing and the only time I have any chain rub is if I am close to cross-chained in the granny. In fact, I use the big ring/biggest rear cog combination quite often and with the cassette so far outboard, there is hardly any chain deflection in this gear combination. So, the wide rear spacing does cut down on poor chain line...but only going one way!

Then I rechecked where the noise is coming from. TandemGeek, you are correct, it is not from the chain rubbing against the front derailleur cage, it is from the chain rubbing against the outer chainring.

We have a 2005 Cannondale. I put the chain on the middle ring and the 11 tooth cog. The chain does not rub on the large chainring when the front derailleur is adjusted so it does not rub. If the derailleur adjustment is too far to the right, the inner cage of the derailleur can push the chain so the chain rubs on the large chainring. Are you sure this is not happening?

I had the same problem of the chain always seeming to be rubbing on something. I got rid of the Ultegra brifters, put on Chorus brifters and 10sp Chorus front derailleur and have not had any more rubbing. Also, the rear shifts seem more positive and quicker.

Our rear derailler is a high normal XT. Was the derailler replaced with a low normal XTR?

We have a 2005 Cannondale. I put the chain on the middle ring and the 11 tooth cog. The chain does not rub on the large chainring when the front derailleur is adjusted so it does not rub. If the derailleur adjustment is too far to the right, the inner cage of the derailleur can push the chain so the chain rubs on the large chainring. Are you sure this is not happening?

I had the same problem of the chain always seeming to be rubbing on something. I got rid of the Ultegra brifters, put on Chorus brifters and 10sp Chorus front derailleur and have not had any more rubbing. Also, the rear shifts seem more positive and quicker.

Our rear derailler is a high normal XT. Was the derailler replaced with a low normal XTR?

Yes the rear derailleur was replaced with a low normal XTR, it actually shifts better that way, as it is easier to shift the rear under load with the assist of the return spring. Just remember the old Suntour double pantagraph (IIRC), these were all low normal until Shimano thought they had a better idea. Seems what's old is new again. But that has no bearing on the front chain rub. The chain when in the middle ring rubs in the three highest gears, so if I eliminate the middle/high combination I should not have any chain rub in the middle six gears with the trim adjustments. As I mentioned before the trim adjustment if I am coming from the large chainring to the middle just doesn't seem to exist. I guess I could go Campy, It would be a first for me since in 30+ years of owning multispeed bicycles I have never had any campy equiped bikes, Sachs, Simplex, Suntour and Shimano only.

In fact, I use the big ring/biggest rear cog combination quite often and with the cassette so far outboard, there is hardly any chain deflection in this gear combination.

Yup, this is true.. particularly with 160mm rear spaced tandems. The off-set chain lines on tandems with wide rear axles usually does allow the use of the full range of the rear cassette while remaining in the big chain ring. So, in many cases, teams riding in moderately flat or rolling terrain can pretty much spend the entire day in the big chain ring... more so if they stick with the stock wide-range 11x34t rear cassettes. The only downside to this habit is that teams can find themselves making an awkward double shift on a steeper climb when they've run the chain to the big/big combination and need a shorter gear. Or, in some cases, when teams finally make that shift off the big chain ring with the chain on big cog under moderate load the front chain won't catch on the middle chain ring and head to the granny or the bottom bracket. The propensity for the latter depends on chainring size differences and front shifter performance: an STI lever (and, yes, they do by-pass the trim points on downshifts) will "kick" the chain under heavy loads.

On hills where I know we can crest in the big/big combination, I'll stick with the big ring. However, on very steep climbs I move to the middle chain ring mid-way up the cassette (noting we run 54t big and 44t middle) and if it looks really steep I'll move to the granny before we are in the 44t x 27t (granny is 32t). We ride with many teams who avoid the granny at all costs as use it only as a bailout gear. In some cases, it's because they are using a 28t or smaller. The 32t has been a pretty good choice for us as we can use more than 1/2 of the rear cogset without rubbing the chain on the derailleur cage or middle chain ring.


We have a 2005 Cannondale. I put the chain on the middle ring and the 11 tooth cog. The chain does not rub on the large chainring when the front derailleur is adjusted so it does not rub.

Entirely possible and sometimes it only occurs when the chain is fully underload and can't be duplicated in the workstand. It is less likely to occur on tandems that don't use the larger 53t or 54t chain rings, extra-wide or off-set bottom brackets. However, it is always something to look for when trying to troubleshoot a bothersome chain rub noise when running in the smallest cogs and middle chain ring combination.

Again, note that I have never used Shimano's STI levers on any of our road tandems. We started off changing out bar-ends for Sachs Ergo shifters on our first tandem before it left the shop and have followed suit using Campy Ergos on our Ericksons. However, I've been able to get most STI set-ups dialed in to have minimal chain rub in the most commonly used gear combinations. However, once you get into the odd cross-over combinations, some rubbing will occur.

I know I've said this before, but to avoid throwing your chain, shift into your largest or smallest chain ring before you have reached an extreme cog. In other words, if you need to go for granny from your middle ring, do it before you have shifted into your largest cog. Same for your big ring, don't wait to shift into it after you have already reached your 11 T cog.

BTW, we also have an '05 Cannondale RT (M/S) and don't have any of the problems you have related.

Let me reiterate, when in the middle chainring, the chain does NOT rub on the derailleur cage, it rubs on the outer chainring. I don't see how it can't, if you say it doesn't perhaps you are accustomed to the noise, or maybe you have a smaller outer chainring.

Sometime tomorrow, I will post a picture.

Update:

Trying to figure out how to effect a change for the better, shifting and cruising wise, I loooked up some info in Barnetts. It appears that the Truvativ bottom bracket can take up to 3.5mm of spacers on the drive side. to move the entire spindle toward the drive side. Recall that my biggest complaint was that the chain actually rubbed on the inside of the chainring (with no adjustment possible), not the front derailleur cage (adjustable with limit screws and cable tension.) So armed with 1mm bottom bracket spacers, I placed 3 spacers on the drive side and then replaced the cups, shifting the bottom bracket spindle 3mm toward the drive side. This modification had no effect on the Q-Factor. This was enough to prevent rubbing on all small sprockets except the smallest when in the middle chainring, and all sprockets except the smallest three when in the granny chainring. It also lessened the severe angle when in the big chainring and the smallest rear cog. Now the drivetrain rides much quieter and with less side stress on the chain it should last longer.

Now if I could only get rid of the one odd gap in the rear cluster. 11-34 is just too wide, what I would really like is an 11-30 cluster. It used to be that freehubs had individual sprockets and spacers so you could mix and match gearing as needed. I guess those days are over! :(

After the reassembly, we went for what I would consider our best tandem ride to date. Not very long, just 24 miles, but shifting was better and only two missed shifts during the ride. Previously mentioned, I had replaced the derailleur with a "Rapid-Rise" XTR. It works so much better than the normal backward Shimano derailleur. My shifting style is during a climb to work my way through the cogs one gear at a time. I rarely, if ever, need to downshift multiple rear cogs. Having the downshift on the small STI lever also makes the front and the back shift the same, inner lever downshifts, outer lever upshifts, both front and rear. Now coming over the top of a hill there are many times that I find I need two or three shifts so as not to spin out and bounce on the saddle. The outer lever accomodates shifting up to three cogs at once. Perfect for our riding style. Now the only thing we need to work on is that my Stoker, my daughter, claims I lean the bike to the left when we are going straight, I guess I'll need to learn to lean the bike right so she feels a little more comfortable, as a Stoker is always right! :)

Update:

Now the only thing we need to work on is that my Stoker, my daughter, claims I lean the bike to the left when we are going straight, I guess I'll need to learn to lean the bike right so she feels a little more comfortable, as a Stoker is always right! :)

OR....your daughter is trying to sneak a peek around you...

Glad to hear you have sorted out the shifting

Now if I could only get rid of the one odd gap in the rear cluster. 11-34 is just too wide, what I would really like is an 11-30 cluster. It used to be that freehubs had individual sprockets and spacers so you could mix and match gearing as needed. I guess those days are over! :(


No no, you can still do it. Just not all models of Shimano clusters are breakable.

I believe that on the road models, 105 and up are mix-and-match. Not sure about the MTB models...but this is definitely still doable.

-Greg

Update:
Now if I could only get rid of the one odd gap in the rear cluster. 11-34 is just too wide, what I would really like is an 11-30 cluster. It used to be that freehubs had individual sprockets and spacers so you could mix and match gearing as needed. ...

See Sheldon Brown's page on cassettes (http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html).

Basically, if you buy low-end cassettes –which are the cheapest anyway – you have cassettes made with individual cogs and spacers. Basically, combining wide range and narrow range cassettes, I made four custom cassettes including :
12-14-15-16-17-19-21-25-34 for the single (used with 44-34-22 rings)
13-15-16-17-18-20-23-26-32 for the tandem (used with 48-38-28-18 rings).