Touring - bear mace - Yay or Nay?

I am leaving in a week for a cross Canada tour (yes I know it is a little early, I like the cold) and I am wondering whether or not to take bear mace. I plan on camping a lot and I have decided to not cook fish or meat, hoping that may avoid some problems. But now I am wondering if I should just buy the mace. Does anyone have any experience in this area or suggestions?

Wait to buy it until you get into Canada. If you get searched at the border and you have it they probably won't take it but it's considered some sort of weapon so you might.

I was charged by a bear in Alaska. They say not to run but it's almost impossible. The fact I had bear spray in my hand made it "easier" to do the right thing which was stand there, thinking "Oh my God this is going to hurt," and hope it was a bluff charge.

Cheers,
Brian

PS: It was a bluff. No one got sprayed, eaten, and no pants were soiled.

Not a direct answer to your question, just my experience. I've only had two encounter with bears. The most recent, years ago: I was driving late at night in northern California, falling asleep at the wheel, and desperately trying to get to the nearest campground so I could sleep. I pulled into the first campground, pulled into the nearest campsitre, and scared off a black bear. It never came around and bothered me.

The other encounter was in southern Oregon. I was in whitewater school, camping on a river beach, and a bear had come around looking for food. There were tracks all around my sleeping bag, and other peoples bags, and around the kitchen area. We were camping with pros, so the bear didn't get our stuff, and moved upstream to the next campsite. It got onto one of the rafts, where the campers had foolishly stored their food, and tore up the raft and their food supply.

In my experience, black bears just aren't a problem. That's assuming that I'm not standing between a mother and her cubs, of course. They will try to get into food if you make it easy for them, but they're not dangerous unless cornered or protecting their cubs.

Then there are Grizzlies. From everything I've read about them, there is no way I would camp in grizzly country without a gun. And maybe mace. I'd prefer not to kill one, but sometimes they just don't give you many options. I'm not sure macing a Grizzly is the way to protect yourself, considering how fast and how powerful they are. It *may* be effective, I just don't know, and I wouldn't bet my life on it. A large caliber gun is the only thing I'd trust my life to in Grizzly country. Of course, if they're as quiet as that black bear that tiptoed around my sleeping bag, I'm screwed if I'm caught sleeping.

I've biked all over western Canada from Saskatchewan to Vancouver Island to the Yukon and Northwest Territories. Maybe a half-dozen trips. I was by myself most of the time. I had neither mace nor a gun. Lord knows, I sure couldn't have come into Canada with a handgun. I also do a lot of remote camping - i.e. just me in places far, far from anybody else. I feel safest when I am in areas where bear hunting is permitted since bears then have a fear of humans. Of course, that's no guarantee. I am religious about food. Never in my tent. Always hung high and 100 meters downwind from my campsite. If you are concerned, I think the more prudent course is to stick to developed campgrounds - especially in grizzly areas - the parks in the Rockies - eastern BC. Personally, if you are reasonable, I think your chances of getting hit by a city bus in Toronto are greater.

I think that generally, this is true. However, occasionally, a grizzly bear goes on a murder spree, for reasons that aren't understood. Those are the ones that make me feel like a gun is necessary.

I understand the problem with bringing guns into Canada, but from my own perspective, *if* I'm going into grizzly country-- something i've never done-- I need some kind of equalizer, because they are too big, too fast-- as fast as a horse, too smart, and sometimes, too predatory, to trust in anything else.


On the other hand, if everybody who went into bear country were armed, there'd probably be no bears left after a while. Probably better for the species if a lot of people don't put themselves into a position where they might have to defend themselves.

I say get some. It's cheap and it works.

I used to work in Yellowstone National Park, and I know of more than one person who it helped out.

Well I have some experience with bears while I was tree planting for several years and while working in Northern BC. But I am planning on stealth camping along the way across the country and I guess I was hoping the traffic may scare them away. I do like the idea of keeping the food away from camp in a tree. I think I will go to MEC and get some rope.

Daavq,

I too am doing a cross-canada ride in 25 days, and can empathize with your fear of encountering bears while camping. I plan on taking bear mace simply because it's cheap and better than nothing. Also, while travelling BC I plan on staying in established camp sites whenever possible. If not available, I'd probably try and persuade some locals to let me crash in their backyard or someplace nearby other humans. Once out of BC I think stealth camping in remote places in less a risk. However, I did read about a young woman that was mauled to death by a predatory black bear last year in a provincial park east of Lake Superior. I guess the best you can do is keep food as far from your tent as possible and strung from trees. Best of luck.

Oh. And I plan on carrying a large knife.

If it makes you feel better take it.

I generally carry it when backpacking or camping in bear country, but I have never had to use it. I have talked to people who have had to use it and it worked for them against a grizzly they had surprised.

Proper campsite protocol is very important as has been stressed here. Don't be too paranoid, bear incidents are relatively rare.

All good points in bear country for sure. I'd carry the bear spray, and I'd buy some of those "poppers" or "crackers" (not sure of their proper name its been awhile). I knew of stories where spray didnt work, and a few poppers finally scared the Griz off. Keep the knife handy, though if it comes time for you to use a knife on the bear in a fight, you may be in trouble....

Grizzly encounters are relatively rare. Of far more concern is the common Blackie that has lost its fear of humans because they are so plentiful and because we are encroaching with developments. Attacks by Blackies dwarf those by Grizzlies because of that reason. They are everywhere almost.

I've read that Grizzlies will sometimes snore like lumberjacks when they are napping. The Alaska Brownies at the local zoo don't make a sound when they move around their habitat - even on the river rock in there. Very disconcerting ability.

It's good that Blackies seem to 'talk' to themselves. You can hear them making a 'yukker-yukker' sound when they are eating tasty blackberries. I think they daydream a little because I surprised one a few years ago.

I was grazing on one side of a blackberry patch by a rail siding and I thought there were people on the other side talking quietly. I ducked through an opening to get over there and when I popped out I was within 10 ft of a medium sized black bear. I couldn't believe he didn't hear me til I was that close. He turned around and saw me and took off like a rocket - straight up a near vertical bank about thirty feet.

It happened so fast that I didn't even have time to think about the physical mechanics of retreat.

Mace for bears? Sure. Why not. A large knife? You won't even have enough time to slit your own throat if he closes with you. The fastest round-house-right by a professional boxer is pretty anemic compared to the speed and power of even a small 100lb bear.

Mace for bears? Sure. Why not. A large knife? You won't even have enough time to slit your own throat if he closes with you. The fastest round-house-right by a professional boxer is pretty anemic compared to the speed and power of even a small 100lb bear.

Maybe so, but if it offers me some psychological comfort, I'll take one along.

Pepper spray is a good idea, and an even better idea is carrying 2 canisters because pepper spray can and occasionaly will jam. Another good option is home brewed pepper spray in a water bottle in a cage.

Skin Flute mentioned a large knife. Especially for hikers, a machete would be a good bear solution when guns are not an option. Bears have no armor plating, and a large knife or machete can swiftley stop a bear.

Something I should mention for those who don't know is that black bears tend to be afraid of humans. I have run into them many times, and they just look at me and run like their life depends on it.

Reality check:
In Canada pepper spray if carried in a pocket or other cover may be considered to be a 'concealed weapon'. Other charges may apply if you spray it at a human.

The best way to avoid contact with bears is to not go where bears go. Don't cook where you camp. Change clothes after you cook and avoid camping near sites that bears frequent such as campsites and near water.

That said, in bear country I carry pepper spray and a metal tent peg (sharpened) with me in my hammock. I've never needed either.

In Canada, you can only buy OC (oleoresin caspicum) spray, aka pepper spray, which is intended for bears. It's illegal to carry small concealable amounts intended for humans. It's also illegal to transport to Canada but not illegal to transport from Canada to the US.

There is a great organized ride called "PAGE" (Pedal Around the Glacier, Eh), the Kokenai Glacier that is, in the Nelson BC area. Two years ago I noticed a couple of riders who were carrying OC in their bottle cages. I thought that was a bit extreme and asked about it. I was told the black bears can be quite aggressive in that area and come down to the road often. The road goes from Creston to Crawford Bay and is fairly well travelled. I must say I was a but uneasy for the remainder of the ride. I now go to Nelson about every other week and have learned it's very common for bears to come down to the road. If you are by the Kokanee Glacier on Hwy 3A, they come down for the fish, and garbage, but mostly the fish and are common visitors to the provincial park which offers camping.

I biked across Canada 19 years ago, didn't carry it and didn't have a problem. I really doubt you will have problems w/ bears unless a person is careless and frying bacon in their tent. I usually carry it since I mostly worry about the two legged animals. It makes me sleep a little better.

"Skin Flute mentioned a large knife. Especially for hikers, a machete would be a good bear solution when guns are not an option. Bears have no armor plating, and a large knife or machete can swiftley stop a bear."

Allow me to re-iterate.
Even the fastest human cannot out strike a bear - even a small one of 100-150 lbs. Knife, machete, or other bladed weapon notwithstanding. You simply will not have the time to wield your weapon. Ever actually witness a cat fight? A real one - not just staring and growling. Bears are at least as fast as cats. Their speed and power is nothing short of explosive.

A blackie of 175lbs has a reach six inches longer than a typical 6' man. A 350lb blackie has about the same reach but is just fatter. Grizzlies have been known to charge a hunter after being shot thru the heart with a .338 Winchester Magnum and still cover 50-70 in about 6 seconds yards before expiring.

It's a good thing they fear humans, but they are losing that fear because they are seeing us so much more. And, we come with food. They know this.

Bringing a knife along in camp is not a bad idea, but don't count on it against a bear attack. The bear mace is as good a deterent as any non-lethal option. Just be aware of your surroundings and use common sense with your food. 99.999% of the time the bear will have already scouted your camp and moved off.

You believe what you want jcm, but I do fencing and martial arts, and I happen to think I could handle a black bear with one of my big combat knives. A conservation officer in Africa once killed a lion with a Swiss Army knife.

Something I forgot earlier is that another good option for hikers who come across small bears is a big stick, such as a heavy hardwood hiking staff. An expanding baton could also fend them off. I have seen footage of bear attacks, and I have never seen a black bear attack someone so fast that they couldn't have fought it off with a knife or club.

It might be possible to have some success with a knife against a small black bear, but against a brown bear your best bet is to cover your knife in bacon grease, throw it and hope he chases it. If you try to fight a brown bear with a knife, you will be killed.

I would camp in grizzly country without a gun. And maybe mace.

I did a lot of backpacking in bear county. The popular conclusion is you'd 1: Need to carry a massive rifle to kill or even stop a grizzly and 2: You'd need to be make a kill shot on a moving target while scared sh**less.

Best to use smarts, make noise, don't cook in camp, and carry mace. If you do use a gun, they suggest filing off the front sightpost so it doesn't hurt as much when the bear shoves the gun up your @ss (bear country humor there).

Cheers,
Brian

PS: I totally misread your post. I thought you wrote "would NOT camp in grizzly..." But I'm so proud of my bear joke that I stole that I'm keeping it as-is.

I did a lot of backpacking in bear county. The popular conclusion is you'd 1: Need to carry a massive rifle to kill or even stop a grizzly and 2: You'd need to be make a kill shot on a moving target while scared sh**less.


A friend of mine was out west in the 60's and he killed a large charging pissed bear (black or brown I don't know) with a Ruger MK1 semi automatic .22. A shot between the eyes with a .22 rimfire will kill any animal in north, south, or central America, and most of them on the other continents. Believe it or not, even elephants have been killed with .22's, but that is a much trickier matter.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

That is the most ridiculous freaking thing I have ever heard.

The reason professional guides in Alaska carry something like a 12 gauge shotgun and alternate slugs with shot shells or a 45/70 bush rifle with Buffalo Bore hardened rounds is because martial arts experts like you can stop a brown bear with a knife or a machete.

Please keep to subjects you know something about.

I better put on my mucking boots it is getting deep in here :roflmao:

I never go into bear country without these essentials. Fortunately, I have many skills.:D

Rather than taking Rommel's Army with you, just take a little caution and prudence.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

That is the most ridiculous freaking thing I have ever heard.

The reason professional guides in Alaska carry something like a 12 gauge shotgun and alternate slugs with shot shells or a 45/70 bush rifle with Buffalo Bore hardened rounds is because martial arts experts like you can stop a brown bear with a knife or a machete.

Please keep to subjects you know something about.

Right, like I know nothing about guns, hunting, and weapons in general. Look up my other posts genius.

I suppose I didn't make this clear enough since this is a thread about yuppee bicyclist solutions for bears in canada, but whenever I go into Michigan bear country during hunting season, I carry either a Remington 870, a DSA SA58, or a Mauser. I also have a Springfield GI with a .460 Rowland barrel that comes with me during the summer.

Michigander: With respect,
There will always be anecdotal stories and videos 'proving' this or that. I've read the account of the elderly woodcutter who fended off the 300lb blackie with a Swiss Army Knife. I've seen hunting video of a bear that advanced on a hunting camp and got into a Mexican Stand-off with a guy on the other side of a tree. No great speed evident. Sow bears with cubs don't always attack, either. Sure. It happens.

I used to hunt alot. I've been to Alaska to view the bears and to fish. I've attended seminars on bear safety since I was required to in order to lead winter/alpine survival courses years ago - in the mountains, not a classroom. Bears are different than deer. They are loosely related to swine - also one of the fastest and most lethal attackers. You don't hack at them with a machete or knife and expect to survive. Even if you succeed with one good wack, you will be thrown into the air and whipped around like a pillow case. A 150lb bear will knock you unconcious(sp) with the first blow. You will be dead before the bear expires. Then, what good would martial arts have done.

In the case of a charging bear, mace is as good as gets. If the bear stops and goes away, watch your back for a long time and hope you don't run low. Listen. An agitated bear is not quiet. You will hear jaw-popping and small trees and bushes being trampled. His eyes and nose membranes are stinging like crazy and he doesn't like it one bit.

In the case of a determined attack, you are toast if you can't break the supporting bones. I refer you to the post on what Alaskan guides carry. Even up there, Blackies are bolder than they used to be and are a greater potential conflict than a griz.

Now, this thread is about cycling in bear country last time I checked. My advice to the OP is just be aware and read about bears. Avoid the sensationalized stories about uncle joe back in 1935 and check with your Parks Dept as a starting point. We now know alot more about bears and people.

Okay here is the story I was told.

Three years ago this June I was hiking in the Rockies near Diana Lake in B.C.

I was talking to some other people on the trail and I asked if they had seen any bears. They replied that they had seen a small black near their campsite on the logging road and we got to talking about bears.

This guy then showed me his bear knife. It was about a six inch blade and he carried it on his belt. He was demonstrating how sharp he kept and he accidentally cut his hand, it was so sharp.

Then he told me how the knife had saved his life. Twenty or so years before he was walking along a trail in the forest in Manitoba with a friend. It was early in the morning and the light was still dim. He literally stumbled over a bear that was sleeping on the trail. The bear attacked him and they start rolling down the hill side, locked in an embrace. He reached for his knife at his waist and started stabbing the bear repeatedly where ever he could get it.

As they rolled to a stop at the bottom of the hill, his friend jumped onto the bear and strted stabbing it on the back with his knife. Between the two of them they killed the bear before the bear could kill them.

He had some broken bones -I can't remember exactly what- and some lacerations but was other wise okay.

Anyway take it or leave it that's the story.

Maybe it was this guy:

And then there is a story a former service buddy of mine told about being stationed in Alaska. Several folks, including one officer, decided to go out one night with a deuce and a half and a 50 cal to spotlight grizzlies and polar bears at the base dump. When the grizzly charged from 50 yards the bear actually crashed against the truck before they got enough rounds in him to kill him.

Think about that for a minute.

Thats just poor marksmanship. National Guard I presume?:D

The moral to these stories is you will use what you have and make the best of it and hopefully realize how lucky you were and equally how unprepared.

If you're near their food--especially meat they've stowed away--their pretty protective and might get a bit upset with you. If you're near their cubs, they get real protective and real upset with you. If you spray them in the face with mace, pepper spray or wound them with a bullet, they go from being being quite upset to being totally enraged.
They can run faster through the woods and water than Carl Lewis can on a track, pack a better wallop than Muhammed Ali, have toe nails as long as my fingers, can rip the bark off trees, tear up old logs looking for bugs to eat, and have thick protective stuff all over their bodies called hide and fur.
Gee, I don't know. If a bear comes into your camp while you are awake, are you walking over to it and spraying it in the face with your mace, hoping your aim is good and get it in it's eyes, not on the fur, snout, ears, tree, etc? Then what do you do? Run like hell, and hope the bear doesn't follow? How long do you wait till you return to your campsite?
I've spent a fair amount of time in BC and Alberta (from Crowsnest up to Jasper) hiking, cycling and backpacking. Bears are everywhere, but personal encounters are relatively few, and rarely confrontational. Grizzlies generally--according to locals there--rarely venture over a ridge into a valley where theres people, roads, houses, etc. They just don't seem to be interested in being around us.
You're going in May or June? Blacks wake in May, tend to eat whats available and easy to get, which is herbal. Grizzlies don't wake till June, when theres alot more food available for them.
You don't have to go all Rambo just to go on a bike trip.

You want to think positive like Mich and the others that have mentioned agressive lightly armed responses. Better still be very aware. But in the real world you are going to succeed with your SAK about as often as you win an olympic gold medal.

A lot of very big animals have been killed with .22 rm, but stopping them is another thing entirely. I don't believe the elphant story (though strange things happen), they have skulls thiker than our heads, a sort of bone/foam, I heard 19" for a frontal shot, but I am no biologist. It might have happened, but stopping an elephant with a .22 you have to be joking. Still, one way to mark a bear for future action.

I've been an oudoorsman, and hunter in Canada for 46 years. Our farm has black bears on it, and Ontario and New Brunswick are prime bear hunting destinations, hardly ever seen one. Don't assume just because it's Canada you will be tripping over them everywhere. On the other hand. In the right season, in the rockies, you will see Grizzlies right next to the major roads going through the parks. The best tip-off you have to the location of these bears, often the exact location, is the crowds of tourists. I'd hate to be caught trolling through that territory.

Back to touring: what routes are you taking through BC, Alb and Sask? We'll be there in June also. The roads are relatively quiet, the scenery is great, and prices are a bit lower than in the US. I think you'll have a lot of fun.

Peterpan,

I can't think of his name, but the guy who killed elephants with a .22lr (what do you mean rm?) was one of the African hunters that did so much crazy crap they wrote a book about him. He started off guarding workers at the Tsavo railroad bridge construction of 1906. He used small caliber firearms because he had nothing else, and managed to kill many man eaters with them. His small caliber elephant shot involved shooting them from behind and nailing them in the spine. No one else since him has been able to accomplish this shot. Totaly worthless in a charge, its largely irrelivant.

I would like to state again since you brought it up that I do not advocate lightly armed responses to bears. I never tested my knife and club ideas, and even those ideas I would only think would be possibly good on a little black bear. I am without a doubt someone who thinks guns are the way to go on this. I simply suggest what I think might work for those who are too stupid to carry appropriately big guns.

One thing I should bring up because nobody else did is that bears are very slow going down hill. Normally you can out run them on a downhill. Flat or uphill and your dead.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

That is the most ridiculous freaking thing I have ever heard.\

Weird. I just commented in another thread about what a great forum this is. I must've jinxed myself.

Of course, for every 1,000 great, helpful, and respectful comments here I guess you're going to get one of these that serve no purpose other than projecting arrogance, anger, and disrespect.

Ah well.

Thats just poor marksmanship. National Guard I presume?:D

Having spent 6 years in the national guard and having fired a .50 cal I'd say "yes, without question." I can't hit a barn with that thing and the rounds are the size of tractors. :)

Mich, I agree with you. If all you have is a knife you still have to live through the next few minutes. A bear killing you is going to be a violent process, might as well do whatever you can. Now a knife like the cheapo bushman, set up as a spear, you have a real chance call it your safety flag's pole.

The guy's in that story about grizzlies and polar bears sound like idiots. They should have taken a rifle, better still a fifty caliber sniper rifle.

[QUOTE=Michigander


One thing I should bring up because nobody else did is that bears are very slow going down hill. Normally you can out run them on a downhill. Flat or uphill and your dead.[/QUOTE]

Nice work, Michigander:

Again with the FALSE INFORMATION!!!! Note to everyone here - you CANNOT outrun a bear downhill.

Sorry, Michigander - but all you have to do to get good information on subjects YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT is talk to professionals who work with bears OR google "black bears" or "brown bears", not just yank stuff out of thin air or that place in your brain where the old wives' tales live.



To everyone else:

I am sorry for the intrusion - I just cannot stand to see "information" that can get you killed or maimed shoveled around as if it were truth.

I was nearly killed by a large brown bear. In 1971 my girlfriend and I were hitching around Canada and spent a couple weeks camping around Lake Louise in Banff National Park. I went to bed wearing the clothes I cooked in, took them all off and rolled them up and stashed them in the foot of my sleeping bag, which as I well know now is pretty stupid. Gimme a break, I was 20 years old. We had bacon and eggs for dinner, and I cooked. Yummy.

We were at the camprground for autos near the lake not far from that Chateau or whatever the hell that huge hotel is. We were there to re-supply and get showers in the "civilized" campground. We set up the tarp like a lean-to near a picnic table - she was on the inside of the lean to - I was outside. We went to bed and were talking about nothing in particular, I was facing her and could not see outside the tarp. She stopped talking and her eyes gor REAL big and she whispered "please don't move..." - and I could see the panic in her eyes. And then she started to cry.
Something large hit the bottom of my sleeping bag and travelled up the length of the bag to my head and then the blew snot all over the back of my head. I figured out that a bear was literally on my sleeping bag.

The bear grunted loudly and seemed to start moving away but a few seconds later grabbed the bottom of my bag and started yanking me out from under the tarp. I was not scared so much as just really busy trying to get the hell out of the sleeping bag, but I seemed to be moving in slow motion and the bear was moving around just fine.

I was dead and I knew it. A full tour in Vietnam behind me to come home and wind up bear poop......just didn't seem fair.

My girlfriend started screaming like she was on fire. I was 8 or 10 feet out of the lean-to at this point when the drunk Canadian guys that had until then been giving everyone fits with the noise and the bonfire across the road from our campsite noticed what was going on and literally risked their lives to get over to me and the bear, beating on a garbage can, tossing firewood and anything else they could move at the bear, all of them yelling up a storm. The bear let me go and left.

The ranger that came in later said that it was a large female Grizzly that would be moved or destroyed when they found the two cubs she had stashed someplace nearby. He also said I was the luckiest person in the park.

I have to say that I wasn't scared until about an hour later - then I couldn't stop shaking or laughing. Got drunk with the Canadians and had a great time. Hitched back to Oregon the very next day. I haven't been back to Grizzly country since.

You have NO idea how big a fully grown grizzly IS until you have been face to face with one. Close enough to smell her breath: close enough for a little kiss.

Grizzly snot really stinks terribly and is hard to wipe out of your hair.

I had a Gerber combat knife with me but I might as well have had a wish and a prayer, cause that damned knife was absolutely useless, and once I saw how big she was, I knew it.

Just because I was stupid doesn't mean you have to be - what they do on the bike tours on the Great Divide is cook a mile or so from where they set up camp and everyone stashes their cooking and eating clothes with the food, 100 yards downwind from where they actually camp.

Although the bear in my case had been a problem for over a week already, the authorities could do little as they didn't want the cubs to perish - and I agree - in my case she was just dragging off what she percieved to be food - not attacking me as in a rage.

I am hypervigilant where food and camping and bears are concerned. I figure you don't get too many shots at up close and personal with bears, and I don't want another sleepover with one.

cliffordu

Michigander says:
"I would like to state again since you brought it up that I do not advocate lightly armed responses to bears. I never tested my knife and club ideas, and even those ideas I would only think would be possibly good on a little black bear. I am without a doubt someone who thinks guns are the way to go on this. I simply suggest what I think might work for those who are too stupid to carry appropriately big guns."

Maybe I missed it earlier, but that's good enough clarification for me.

daavq,

IF you decide to take the bear spray make sure it's the right kind. Mace doesn't effect bears because they don't have normal tear ducts. THey use a strong pepper stray but the kind used for humans doesn't work because it doesn't spray far enough. The kind for bears is designed to spray about thirty feet in a narrow stream. Also, an air canister horn for making a loud noise is a good thing to have along and I even saw one biker mount it to his handlebars so he could warn bears at a distance.

Nice work, Michigander:

Again with the FALSE INFORMATION!!!! Note to everyone here - you CANNOT outrun a bear downhill.

Sorry, Michigander - but all you have to do to get good information on subjects YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT is talk to professionals who work with bears OR google "black bears" or "brown bears", not just yank stuff out of thin air or that place in your brain where the old wives' tales live.

I won't name names with this being the internet, but an old friend of Fred Bear's who is himself well known in the archery community told me that its possible to outrun a blackbear going downhill. I should make it clear that I never tested that theory, and I should also make clear since I didn't before that I am in no way refering to Brown, Grizzly, or Polar bears, just black bears. Once again, my theory is shoot em. Speaking of Fred Bear, I think a quote by him is in order:

"If some of our teenage thrill seekers really want to go out and get a thrill, let em go up into the North Western and tangle with a grizzly bear, polar bear or brown bear. That will give them a thrill that will cleanse the soul"

They should have taken a rifle, better still a fifty caliber sniper rifle.

I should point out that 50 caliber shoulder fired rifles cost a minimum of 3 grand for the bolt actions, and at least 7 grand for the semi auto's. They weigh 30+ pounds, and the bullets are 5 dollars each. They are in no way an appropriate tool for bear defense or hunting. The one exception to that would be big game in Africa.

I should also point out that many people advocate banning .50 caliber rifles. These guns are used primarily by rich target shooters and the military. They have yet to be used in a crime in north america. Some gun grabbers say we need to ban them so terrorists can't get them. Not that they couldn't aquire one anyway, but Bush sr. gave Bin Laden a bunch of them in the 80's.

cliffordu, great story! But what it shows is you can drive off a bear with wood and cans, so why should one look down at other options.

Yeah I know about the rifles, never suggested one would carry them on a bike! It always seems like just a bunch of rich guys until you look at what the average person around here has in bikes...

Keep in mind that in Canada you aren't allowed to carry weapons. So whatever, if anything you carry, never represent it as a weapon, and chose the version that does not sound weapon like, for instance the Bushman is made by Cold Steel which is an unfortunate name, while Bushman is a good name.

Peterpan1 -

My remarks about guns were only to illustrate what professionals who spend months among the large bears in AK use - and it ain't knives and kung fu - I wouldn't carry a gun on a bike under any circumstances. I find my singing is quite a bear repellant for the little black bears we have around here- I live on the Olympic Peninsula, in Washington. But I still hang my food.
The bigger danger than bears from what I HEAR, is moose. They are out of control when they are rutting and will charge anything they see. Again, from what I hear.


As long as I'm on the "when animals don't attack" kick - I saw a young mountain lion a couple months ago playing with a nice fat bunny off the side of the bike path in the little town where I live - not more than 25 yards away. I actually stopped the bike and watched for a minute - the cat had dinner, so I wasn't skeered...too much. Thrilling to be sure.

We ride at night in the winter around here on the singletrak and it is ALWAYS spooky to see large eyes reflecting light down the trail- most of the time it seems to be deer - but you never know....heh.


Cliffordu

I'd carry a gun on a bike if it was legal which I suppose it probably is in some parts of Canada, in certain circumstances. But I am far from feeling I need to carry a gun. of all the available 3-10 pound upgrades a gun is probably not first thing.

As to your night problem I know you don't need my advice, but I would go for something protective of the neck or whatever the grab point is. .

cliffordu:

You HEARD right. Moose in rut are totally enraged all the time. They are very dangerous. Also, you are very fortunate to have seen a cat doing it's thing. So cool. I've spotted cats a couple of times when I used to hunt. Actually, they had spotted me, and I was definitely not welcome in their domain. They always spray the area liberally so when you hike back thru, it's pretty pungent.

BANFF, Alta. (CP) - A 41-year-old mountain biker attacked by a black bear in Banff National Park may have been mauled over a prolonged period of time, the park's chief warden said Saturday.

The unidentified Banff man, though seriously hurt in the attack, is in stable condition in hospital in Calgary after undergoing surgery Friday night, said Ian Syme, the chief warden for Banff National Park.


He was found by two other cyclists biking along a thickly wooded mountainous trail east of the Rocky Mountain townsite on Friday evening. The pair stopped when they spotted a bike and a broken helmet near the trail, and then heard the victim calling.


"It was a cry for help from the woods," cyclist Robert Earl said. "We didn't know where the bear was relative to the cry."


Earl said once he and fellow cyclist Robin Borstmayer realized the bear was between them and the victim, they knew they would have to get help. The pair pedalled quickly to a nearby campground where they called a park warden, who was dispatched at around 8:15 p.m. along with an RCMP officer.


It took a warden and the Mountie about 15 minutes to find the man just off the trail in the woods, Syme said, but the bear was still pacing near the man and refused to leave the area.


"When they approached the victim the bear moved off slightly," he said. "While the RCMP attended the victim, the warden kept a very close eye on the bear. When it became apparent that it was not going to move off, he shot it."


Earl and Borstmayer said they recognized the victim as town employee of Banff believed to be in his early 40s.


"It definitely is a lot more unnerving when it's an acquaintance of your's," Borstmayer said. "It was difficult leaving him."


"I don't think there's any question if we didn't show up, it would have been a different story," he added.


The behaviour by the extremely thin, young adult black bear was unusual, Syme said, because confrontations between bears and humans are usually brief, and the bear normally leaves the area after an attack.


"When the bear stays around and repeatedly attacks a person, it's no longer a surprise attack. There's some concern over it becoming a predatory attack," Syme said, who added there are fears the bear may have regarded the man as prey.


Syme estimated the bear weighed only about 63 kilograms - much less than the weight of a normal, healthy bear.


The victim was found a short distance from his bike, and there were dragging marks and signs of a struggle, Syme said, leading investigators to believe the attack was a prolonged one with the man remaining conscious throughout.


The victim hasn't yet been interviewed, Syme said, so officials don't know the circumstances of the attack, including whether he may have fallen off his bike and was attacked, or whether the bear may even have dragged the cyclist off the bike.


The mountain biker was wearing headphones at the time of the attack, a practice Syme said he doesn't recommend when hiking or biking in the mountain park.