She was booking it at about 18 mph down the middle of the right hand lane (4 lane road), following me and two other brightly clothed bikers.
We pulled over and grabbed the dog, who had a name and phone # on her collar. After a phone call and about 5 minutes wait, the owner showed up in a pick-up w/ beer on his breath. He thanked us and asked if he could do anything. We told him to keep his dog out of the busy street.
The dog looked a little intimidating running at us, but she only wanted to play. Nice dog - stupid owner.

When I was a kid, I used to work at a nursury (tree farm). I would ride my bike there bright and early every morning on my 3 speed bike. There was one tremendous hill that I had to tackle; I'd build up as much speed as I could going down into this dip to make it to the top on the other side without having to stop and walk my bike, since I didn't have a gear low enough on that 3 speed to tackle it. At the bottom of this hill was a house, with a mean-looking mutt. This mutt would come racing out after me, bearing its teeth, barking wildly as it chased me up the hill. A couple of times, it came very close to biting me in the leg. Fortunately, once I crested the hill, I would easily out-run that dog. One day, I strapped a wood plank to the cross tube of my bike. I booked it down the first hill; sure enough, here comes Cujo, foaming at the mouth and running full out, looking for blood. I stopped and unstrapped the board. Cujo lunged at me, and I swung. Thunk. Right in the snout. Left a dog nose-shaped spot of blood on the board. Cujo reeled back, looked stunned, growled, made some weird sneezing-like sounds, then went back to his home. I walked the bike the rest of the way up the hill. I never had a problem with that dog after that day.

Just to be clear, the point of my post was that you usually don't have to revert to animal cruelty when a dog is chasing. Most dogs are not really trying to bite you.

Just to be clear, the point of my post was that you usually don't have to revert to animal cruelty when a dog is chasing. Most dogs are not really trying to bite you.

Agree. You have to think like a dog. Dogs are territorial, not that they want to kill everything in thier territory, just chase it away from what they have adopted as their territory. So look at it from a dogs point of view- "Every day, this bicyclist comes by, I run at it and bark, and he runs away! Woo joo! Am I good or what? I'm really doing my job keeping him out of my territory" This is the motivation of the vast majority of dogs.

For the dogs that come too close for comfort, I've never had one that I couldn't stop in its tracks with a squirt of water in the eyes from a water bottle. I've hit then from a good twenty feet away without even having to break my stride.

I walked the bike the rest of the way up the hill. I never had a problem with that dog after that day.

That's probably because it was DEAD. :D

If a big dog starts attacking me, though, I won't hesitate to give it the boot. My relationship with other peoples dogs is if they don't bite, I don't kick. Simple as that.

Surprisingly, I've found the word "No" very effective in many cases. Most dogs seem to understand the word and if said with authority often gives a dog a clue about the real situation.

Just remember. You don't have to be faster than the dog. You just have to be faster than your riding partner. :D

Do bear in mind, I was a scrawny 14 year old kid at the time. As far as I was concerned, this dog was Cujo, and it was out for blood. To me, it wasn't an issue of animal cruelty; it was a matter of survival!

I had a medium sized dog run after me last week. I had never seen him/her in the nieghborhood before. I stopped and the dog stopped beside. Looked confused (like, what am I supposed to do now?) and ran back down the street. Haven't seen him since.

I work in the communications industry and in 25 years have been bitten by 6 dogs that "don't bite". I fully agree that dogs are territorial, and i was in their territory. Most dogs are just chasing you out of their territories, but don't take them lightly, all dogs will bite, given the right circumstances .


Ken

Do bear in mind, I was a scrawny 14 year old kid at the time. As far as I was concerned, this dog was Cujo, and it was out for blood. To me, it wasn't an issue of animal cruelty; it was a matter of survival!


Fair enough. Some of the threads on here have people excusing and supporting all sorts of violence on dogs. It gets annoying, so I thought I'd post a different kind of dog thread.

I work in the communications industry and in 25 years have been bitten by 6 dogs that "don't bite". I fully agree that dogs are territorial, and i was in their territory. Most dogs are just chasing you out of their territories, but don't take them lightly, all dogs will bite, given the right circumstances .
Ken

Statistics for U.S. from cursory internet search, so I can't really vouch for them, but...
17 deaths / year by dog attack
14,000 deaths / year by murder
40,000 deaths / year by auto accident

I think that the dog threat is small. Certainly, not meritorious of the preemptive strike philosophy.

One could also say that 'all humans kill, given the right circumstances.' It would be about as meaningful as the statement about all dogs biting.

Yes - I don't think I mentioned dog bit deathes. I agree, you are VERY unlikely to be killed by a dog. However, here are the statistics on dog bites according to the Center for Desease Control

A survey by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta ("CDC") concludes that dogs bite nearly 2% of the U.S. population -- more than 4.7 million people annually. (Sacks JJ, Kresnow M, Houston B. Dog bites: how big a problem? Injury Prev 1996; 2:52 -4.) Almost 800,000 bites per year -- one out of every 6 -- are serious enough to require medical attention. Dog bites send nearly 334,000 victims to hospital emergency departments per year (914 per day). (National Center for Health Statistics National Hospital Ambulatory Medical Care Survey for 1992-1994.) Bites to children represent more than 50 percent of the total number cases. Twenty-six percent of dog bites in children compared with 12 percent in adults require medical care. (Ibid.) Every year 2,851 letter carriers are bitten. (US Postal Service.) An American has a one in 50 chance of being bitten by a dog each year. (Centers for Disease Control [CDC].)

So, you must have based your statement on an assumption that all dog bites end in death.

I was making a statement that dogs should be taken seriously, not advocating any violence against animals.

Ken

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/

that was incredibly nice of you. you may have saved that dog's life. :)

I usually find yelling at the dog settles them down.
When I was a kid, I often rode a big red single speed fat-tired firestone bike around. There was a dog that barked and chased me every time, coming out onto the road, which was a high speed country 2-lane (dozens of miles of straight as an arrow road through farm fields, people went 60 MPH).
I decided I had to stop it or it'd get killed - I lived on the same road a few miles away and we lost almost every pet within 2 years to traffic.
So the next time I rode by, and it came running, I slowed enough so it could get in front of me. I rode out into the gravel and did a skid stop, throwing gravel at it (coaster brakes), then I picked up my bike over my head and charged at it, yelling as loud as I could. It took off, and though it still barked at me, it only followed on the other side of the ditch, never came out to the road again.

Rin Tin Tin!

There has only been one dog that I thought was going to genuinely attack me. It was an alsatian and was able to keep up with the 25mph I was doing. Fortunately for me it couldn't corner as well and went careening into a fence on a tight bend.

I find that the best thing that you can do in the presence of a dog, and this is supported by a number of animal psycholgists, is to slow down a little when you come into their personal space.

One could also say that 'all humans kill, given the right circumstances.' It would be about as meaningful as the statement about all dogs biting.
How often do humans run after you screaming, "I'm gonna bite you! You're dead meat! If I catch you, you're dead!"

At least, that's what I assume they're saying while haulin' tail after me, barking and foaming at the mouth. I miss having a dog but the thought of the poor dog spending 9 hours alone in a condo is not a happy one. Dog owners can be the lowest form of life. A single cell organism. Keep them on a leash and keep them in your yard! Dogs are good but can bite, dog owners are bad and can't think. Exceptions apply.

How often do humans run after you screaming, "I'm gonna bite you! You're dead meat! If I catch you, you're dead!"
Seems to me it happens to BF members from time to time. However, in a cycling context, humans typically threaten with their vehicles (or a weapon in extreme cases) rather than their teeth.

Given the choice between having to deal with a road raging human or a hostile dog, I'd rather take my chances with the dog.

Seems to me it happens to BF members from time to time. However, in a cycling context, humans typically threaten with their vehicles (or a weapon in extreme cases) rather than their teeth.

Given the choice between having to deal with a road raging human or a hostile dog, I'd rather take my chances with the dog.
It was a joke. Just a segue into my rant on irresponsible dog owners. How self-centered of me.

Statistics for U.S. from cursory internet search, so I can't really vouch for them, but...
17 deaths / year by dog attack
14,000 deaths / year by murder
40,000 deaths / year by auto accident

I think that the dog threat is small. Certainly, not meritorious of the preemptive strike philosophy.

One could also say that 'all humans kill, given the right circumstances.' It would be about as meaningful as the statement about all dogs biting.
I wanted to call attention to the preemptive strike philosophy statement. Meaning: if a human was running after you in a menacing way, shouting threats and offering bodily harm. Would you be in the wrong by striking out? The dog threat is small when placed next to global-warming or nuclear proliferation but that doesn't mean that a dog acting like it wants to bite you, won't.

EDIT: I've never, in my life, hit a dog. I have, unfortunately, resorted to yelling "No! Bad doggie!" at my own dogs more times than I care to remember. I'm ashamed of it now. But if a dog is loose and trying to take a chunk out of me (and I'm not within stranglin' ditance of the owner) I'd give the dog a rap on it's noggin. It's called a reflex.

Dogs are good but can bite, dog owners are bad and can't think. Exceptions apply
Really?

IMHO, dog owners and cyclists have a lot in common. At a local park, I was recently took a survey about park usage. On the survey, they asked if users were more afraid of bikers or off-leash dogs. Both dog owners and cyclists are the off-beat park users, and are subject to having privileges revoked due to the fears of the other park users.

At another local park, riders coexist on a path with dog walkers (all on leash here). I prefer seeing dogs off-leash at this park, b/c there is no leash to get tangled in. Bike riders are annoyed at dog owners, and dog owners are annoyed at bikers (they perceive bikers as ruining the experience for walkers).

It's unfortunate that they can't just learn to accept the validity of the other person's activity, and be happy to see others outside enjoying nature.

It's unfortunate that they can't just learn to accept the validity of the other person's activity, and be happy to see others outside enjoying nature.
Right on. I've been on both sides. I can cycle effectively and maneuver safely (annouce intentions, pass left) around walkers and PROPERLY leashed dogs. No collisions in 20+ cycling years (ground doesn't count). I can also enjoy a walk with a trained dog and use the leash PROPERLY. I don't scream past walkers at 25mph on my bike and I don't let my dog wander to the other side of the path at will, thereby blocking the path with the dog and leash.

Why do I say PROPERLY leashed? Having a 10-20 foot leash and letting your dog run wild in that 10-20 feet is not exhibiting effective control, IMHO. Dogs aren't the problem and we certainly don't advocate banning other path users.

Just to be clear, the point of my post was that you usually don't have to revert to animal cruelty when a dog is chasing. Most dogs are not really trying to bite you.

Oh that's good. The two dogs that bit me last winter were exceptional then...

Really?

IMHO, dog owners and cyclists have a lot in common. At a local park, I was recently took a survey about park usage. On the survey, they asked if users were more afraid of bikers or off-leash dogs. Both dog owners and cyclists are the off-beat park users, and are subject to having privileges revoked due to the fears of the other park users.

At another local park, riders coexist on a path with dog walkers (all on leash here). I prefer seeing dogs off-leash at this park, b/c there is no leash to get tangled in. Bike riders are annoyed at dog owners, and dog owners are annoyed at bikers (they perceive bikers as ruining the experience for walkers).

It's unfortunate that they can't just learn to accept the validity of the other person's activity, and be happy to see others outside enjoying nature.

You forget something, human beings are more important than dogs. I got very pissed off at the owner of one dog that bit me when she said, 'You surprised him riding up on your bike like that.' F*ck that for a game of soldiers - I'm a human being riding a bike on the road as I am entitled to do, then mut runs up off the leash and sinks canines into my leg and somehow, brainless dog woman thinks it's my fault....

Unreasonable cyclists who harrass pedestirans in the park are rather like the irresponsible dog owner - damned inconsiderate, but out of control dogs should NEVER be tolerated for a second.

PS. I have a dog myself. It doesn't bite people and I remove its crap from public property. Dogs should alwasy be in control, not running around creating nuisance and danger to others.

I too think that the issue is dog owners. In the past few years I have had the following happen: a hunter poaching sick his dog on me and call me a wimp when I protested his dogs attachment to my ankle, a gas station guard dog latch to my foot while I was on a public trail, a dog owner tell me to watch out for "people" when I almost cut her golden retreiver in half on a trail when it jumped out at me from behind some undergrowth on a downhill (btw, the owner was, no kidding, at LEAST 100 feet away from the dog and the only "people" there but me....), a husky take me off the bike at high speed causing serious road rash (bone sticking out) and about 600 dollars damage to my bike, 3 farm dogs tree me at the road side for over 15 minutes until they got bored, and I could go on.... I hate the buggers! (the owners who let this happen I mean.) rant off! (a sore spot - or several of them actually!! - with me)

Here is a thought though, and what I really wanted to say: when approaching a family walking a dog, say HI, slow down, and remember, the dog, if it heads to intercept you is likely putting itself in the way of what it sees as a potential threat to its family/pack. Remember, you come up fast (according to the dog) even though the people you are saying hi to as you approach at a low speed think you are doing just fine.

My wife and I have, on at least three seperate occasions, had a dog come after us from at least 100 yards away in "Attack" mode - that is, barking wildly, head down, tail between its legs, growling. On both occasions, we were nowhere near the dogs or the dogs owners property; two were in a conservation area; the other time, we were half a block away.

The majority of dogs are sane and reasonable; but there are "Crazed" dogs out there that do run up to and threaten strangers, and they're not defending their property. At one paticular conservation area full of great bike trails and off-leash dogs, this problem seems to be growing. Worse yet, the owners don't seem to care; indeed, they actually seem amused by this. That is, until they see me level a can of pepper spray at the dog; then they become concerned and start calling their dog off. We (my wife and myself) are beginning to get quite annoyed at this; we're going to bring a camcorder with us next time along with the pepper spray, so we can gather evidence against these agressive dogs and their owners...and if they approach us in "Attack" mode, they're going to get a face full of burning pepper spray; no questions asked. We've stocked up on the stuff.

Again, the majority of dogs in this conservation area are sane and reasonable, and we certainly don't hate dogs...and we don't want to see the responsible dog owners have to leash their dogs because of the few idiots out there that train their dog to attack. I think it's wiser to go after the individual owners (with videotape evidence) and their dogs and enforce a bylaw regarding agressive dogs off leash.

A boat horn will turn them almost every time.

I wanted to call attention to the preemptive strike philosophy statement. Meaning: if a human was running after you in a menacing way, shouting threats and offering bodily harm. Would you be in the wrong by striking out?
Not necessarily wrong, but I think preemptive strikes should be avoided except in extreme cases because they guarantee conflict.

One thing that I think contributes to preemptive strike philosophy is fear. Unfortunately, fear can provoke hostile dogs (and people for that matter). The best way to get through a conflict is with a level head, but that is much easier said than done.

Using your feet for defense often doesn't require kicking anything. If you have enough time to get off the bike, legs are very useful because they keep the dog at leg's length, and if they jump at you you can use your knee to block. When the dog sees that you will use your feet to defend but are holding back, you can often create a standoff that results in no one getting bitten or kicked.

I think kicking at a large dog's snout is risky. Some breeds have enough strength to bite right through the top of your shoe. Also, putting anything near the snout is just asking to get bitten because dogs are very fast and they hate having threatening things near their nose. I think you're much less likely to get bitten if you focus on holding them at bay than you are if you try to hit or kick them.

I think it's wiser to go after the individual owners (with videotape evidence) and their dogs and enforce a bylaw regarding agressive dogs off leash.
Bingo. Irresponsible owners will just let their dogs get hurt/killed. Make the owners themselves feel some consequences, and people will feel more inclined to do what they should have been doing all along.

I agree w/ banerjek that fear and preemptive strikes can cause more harm than good.

IMO, the heart of the problem is people bringing anti-social dogs out in public w/o a short leash. I have interacted with hundreds if not thousands of socialized dogs in public over the last few years, and have not once felt threatened. I've seen some anti-social dogs off-leash, but their owners were always nearby and had a leash in hand.

One issue may in fact be the bike. Many (if not most) dogs are afraid of bikes until they are taught what a person on a bike is. If I'm not in a rush, I get off the bike and talk to the owners and the dog if a dog looks nervous when I approach.

Another issue is the defining 'attack' mode. I wouldn't say that a dog was in attack mode unless it actually attacked someone. Barking is unusual, but not in itself a sign of attack. Neither is bared teeth, or tail tucked under, really. A mix of fur standing on end, growling, and ears pinned back is not good. That's an agressive mode.

Passing a country dogs house is a different thing entirely. But I think that beating it with a board or other weapon is unnecessary, and trying to kick it while pedaling is just not effective.

Using your feet for defense often doesn't require kicking anything. If you have enough time to get off the bike, legs are very useful because they keep the dog at leg's length, and if they jump at you you can use your knee to block. When the dog sees that you will use your feet to defend but are holding back, you can often create a standoff that results in no one getting bitten or kicked.

I think kicking at a large dog's snout is risky. Some breeds have enough strength to bite right through the top of your shoe. Also, putting anything near the snout is just asking to get bitten because dogs are very fast and they hate having threatening things near their nose. I think you're much less likely to get bitten if you focus on holding them at bay than you are if you try to hit or kick them.

A good strategy is to get off the bike and place it between yourself and the errant dog. I did this with great effect when attacked by a large strong dog. You can easily fend off the animal with the bike without any brutality and by going forward with the bike held like a gate infront of you, the dog is thoroughly intimidated and will back off.

I was enjoying a nice ride the other day when I spotted a large dog with his owner walking down the street further down from me, dog unleashed. I stopped and waited to see if they were going to a car/house so I could continue my ride but they just meandered down the street. I turned around and missed my water front ride and crept back 2 miles onto the main roadway & went home. I figured I was much safer back on busy roads rather than dealing with a dog who's owner could give a damn about the safety and enjoyment of other people. :mad:

Well the intent of the dog is relatively immaterial. No dog has the RIGHT to attack or harass travelers on the public thoroughfares.

In my experience the threat of the dog inflicting direct physical harm is relatively slight. Over the years, I have been bitten twice by dogs and both bites were pretty superficial.

The bigger threat the dog poses is stopping in front of you bike causing you to hit them broadside and going over the handlebars. I have seen 2 cyclists knocked cold from this. This kind of thing can quite easily be fatal.

As for the authorities, they tend to range from totally ineffective to effective depending on the local jurisdiction.

I had a pit bull chase me yesterday...I landed one good kick on him which really did not phase him. I yelled at the top of my lungs and he did stop. Did I feel bad kicking him...not at all. Was I going to stop and try to "reason" with a growling, teeth showing dog breed with a bad history of attacking people...hell no. Bottom line is every situation is different. But if it is between me becoming breakfast, or a dog getting kicked/pepper sprayed, you can bet there will be a yelping dog.

When dogs charge or chase me while barking, I can only assume they are going to cause me bodily harm (intentionally by biting or unintentionally by knocking me down). To not defend yourself would be stupid. If I don't stop or spray them, they may bite me and/or knock me off of the bike. I think that securing my safety by spraying them with water or yelling at them is simply that, securing my safety. Btw, I don't kick at them because I have a medium-sized dog that bites through leftover chicken and pork bones so I really don't want my caught in a dogs mouth especially a big dogs mouth.

I agree w/ banerjek that fear and preemptive strikes can cause more harm than good.

IMO, the heart of the problem is people bringing anti-social dogs out in public w/o a short leash. I have interacted with hundreds if not thousands of socialized dogs in public over the last few years, and have not once felt threatened. I've seen some anti-social dogs off-leash, but their owners were always nearby and had a leash in hand.

One issue may in fact be the bike. Many (if not most) dogs are afraid of bikes until they are taught what a person on a bike is. If I'm not in a rush, I get off the bike and talk to the owners and the dog if a dog looks nervous when I approach.

Another issue is the defining 'attack' mode. I wouldn't say that a dog was in attack mode unless it actually attacked someone. Barking is unusual, but not in itself a sign of attack. Neither is bared teeth, or tail tucked under, really. A mix of fur standing on end, growling, and ears pinned back is not good. That's an agressive mode.

Passing a country dogs house is a different thing entirely. But I think that beating it with a board or other weapon is unnecessary, and trying to kick it while pedaling is just not effective.

I don't know what the dogs you know act like but if my pooch is showing her teeth it means big time trouble. When shes got her teeth out, she is going to use them unless someone stops her.

About the bared teeth, I may have been unclear. Showing teeth is not necessarily threatening. If a dog is thinking about attacking, it will most likely exhibit the other attributes. Bared teeth is definitely not friendly, but lots of dogs do it a little as an early sign of posturing when playing.

I don't know what the dogs you know act like but if my pooch is showing her teeth it means big time trouble. When shes got her teeth out, she is going to use them unless someone stops her.
Although no two dogs are alike, with most dogs, bared teeth by itself does not indicate an attack. It is a sign that there is a risk of one if something doesn't change soon.

When you encounter hostile dogs, you need to use your head. Just as it's a good idea to move over if some lunatic wants to teach you a lesson on the road, you need to be willing to modify your riding style temporarily, dismount, or even use another route. Continuing as if nothing is happening simply because you have the right to do so is a bad idea. Better to do the smart thing and contact the owner or animal control as appropriate.

If the authorities are no help and the owners are nuts, I can see why someone might opt for pepper spray in extreme cases. What you do and how you act makes a huge difference in what dogs do. If you switch directly to attack mode (even in the interest of self defense), you are virtually guaranteed conflict. Attempting to defuse the situation is usually a better way to go, even if you don't really care about the dog.

Kicking while riding a bike is risky. You could crash into the dog, and if he grabs you, you're coming down unless he's so small you really should have ignored him.

One dog every year or two taking a run at me, I'm willing to savour the experience. when I get a few dozen a day, large, sometimes in pairs or threes, as in New Brunswick last year, touring. I just want to start shooting. I don't have time to dismount an play psychiatrist at every second farm I pass.

I agree that if you hurt a dog in any way you are probably setting yourself up for conflict, maybe even charges, around here. But the flip side is that if that dog was chasing game on my property I would be within my rights to shoot it on the spot. I reserve the same right for myself, though in practical terms it is not happening. But if you can dream up some very unpleasant alternatives I am all ears. Some way of rigging the hub generator to a cattle prod, for instance.

Don't be so naive as to believe these big dogs that are chasing everything, or the one sitting looking the other direction at the woods behind their houses, aren't out there running deer every chance they get. A lot of them probably are blooded.

"Just to be clear, the point of my post was that you usually don't have to revert to animal cruelty when a dog is chasing. Most dogs are not really trying to bite you."

So what? Reading their minds isn't my responsibility. If they are out running about, sc&ew 'em.

I like dogs. They may well modify human behaviour in useful ways. But overall, since having kids, I can pretty much do without the dogs. The numbers you really want to read are how many kids' faces dogs rip up in a given year. That's a big number. What is it they say about the duty of a marine? Be genial and profesional with everyone you meet while formulating a plan to kill them should it be required. Pretty much how I relate to dogs.

One of the easiest non-perminant dog stoppers is likely pepperspray. You can get, in many areas, 5% conentrate for that purpose. (NOT the 35% bear spray, which is a registered weapon where I live.) I talked to a police officer (in Ontario) about this who told me that if I feel threatened by a loose dog that I could blast it in the face with spray, just not to use it on the owner or I would be charged with assault with a weapon.

I dont carry it. Not for that reason, but in case of crashes - particularly off road. I cannot think of anyplace to carry it on my person where I would be comfortable having it when tumbling down a hill after a spectacular endo. Punctured spray cans can be nasty... I dont want it mounted on the bike because it would not be easy to take out in a hurry that way.

Agree. You have to think like a dog. Dogs are territorial, not that they want to kill everything in thier territory, just chase it away from what they have adopted as their territory. So look at it from a dogs point of view- "Every day, this bicyclist comes by, I run at it and bark, and he runs away! Woo joo! Am I good or what? I'm really doing my job keeping him out of my territory" This is the motivation of the vast majority of dogs.




They don't want you, they WANT THE BIKE !

So what? Reading their minds isn't my responsibility. If they are out running about, sc&ew 'em.

I like dogs. They may well modify human behaviour in useful ways. But overall, since having kids, I can pretty much do without the dogs. The numbers you really want to read are how many kids' faces dogs rip up in a given year. That's a big number. What is it they say about the duty of a marine? Be genial and profesional with everyone you meet while formulating a plan to kill them should it be required. Pretty much how I relate to dogs.

The tough guy attitude may serve a marine well in war. Going about life like that is kind of silly. It's going to cause more trouble than it solves.

So, you were all for dogs until you had children. Now, other people shouldn't have dogs, b/c you are worried about your children. Sounds selfish to me.

If you are worried, know that most dog bites to children are in the childs house (family dog). Nearly 90% are also perpetrated by intact male dogs. Also, most attacks are on boys rather than girls. If you are riding down the street and a dog chases you, it is not endangering your child. It probably doesn't realize that you are even a person on a bike. Hopefully, you won't excercise you plan on killing it unless it actually bites you and won't let go.

I don't expect other people to get rid of their dogs, just keep them away from me. Also perhaps it isn't too much to ask if they don't take them to the local school yard for a cr@p.

You may not like what I am saying but, surprisingly, I have run into a lot of new fathers (I'm now 10 years into it with a 15 day old girl just arrived also) who feel the same. For instance, I was at the zoo. Went there after the first kid was born and noticed a small change. If I saw a Komodo Dragon my basic reaction was just a tired feeling of "one more thing I would have to kill", if I lived in the Pacific where the dragons snag livestock and the occasional person. I wasn't feeling anything against that particular animal in a zoo, but the wonder of nature, all these cool, occasionally lethal, animals no longer had the same appeal. You just feel a little more protective. Why should that surprise you.

One thing dog owners should keep clear is that they have rights, and their property is protected. And there are animal cruelty laws, though whether they are based on inherent rights of the animal or not is probably open to question, ask a vivisectionist. But generally dogs don't have rights. "You" (a general "you") want to enjoy a park with your dog, and I want to enjoy a park with my child. In that regard our rights are pretty much the same. Your dog comes face to face with my child, my child has rights your dog does not. This is a critical point. It is being argued here in Toronto where there is some initiative to either open all parks to no-leash, or kick the dogs out, a legal vacuum post-amalgamation. The argument is dog owner vs., parents, as taxpayers, and presenters to the council. But the real issue is children and dogs, and there isn't any comparison at that level.

Further, my right to self defense, or to defend my child, is not dependant on my being able to diagnose a dog's metal state, if I reasonably perceive a threat I am entitled to use force. Since a dog, unlike me, is pretty well armed at all times, may be from a breed specifically bred to deal violently with humans, I think it is reasonable of me to believe the level of force I use can be from fairly high on the force continuum. You can read the OPP quote above in that regard.

There is really only one person who provides this shield for my child in this world, my wife is reactive in orientation, I don't consider it silly, it's just my responsibility. Yeah it's a pain, brought to me courtesy of the regional dog owners, whose idea of a leash, if any, is some spring loaded reel that does not control their animal; who illegally (up here) keep violent breeds for "self-defense"; etc...

None of these harsh thoughts or solutions would have any application if dog owners would just grow up and control their animals.

I should say, that as far as bicycles are concerned I have pretty much always, because of a head start, been able to outrun the dogs that have chased me. But touring was an eye opener, no acceleration, and not easy to stop or to get back up to speed when detained. I really haven't personally had a problem with dogs while just tooling around in the city. I can either outrun them, and in most cases they don't chase. But in the boonies, they seem never to have seen a bicycle they didn't want to run after, and they are often really big and mean looking. What happened to all those smart little terriers people used to have. I got chased by an Irish wolf hound in Brighton, Ontario, they cover a lot of ground fast....

.... But the real issue is children and dogs, and there isn't any comparison at that level.

Further, my right to self defense, or to defend my child, is not dependant on my being able to diagnose a dog's metal state, if I reasonably perceive a threat I am entitled to use force.....
True, but that's still no substitute for using your head and it's not a carte blanche to use force.

I don't think large dogs and kids are a good mix. When I walk mine, I use a leash that gives full control with a pinch collar and a supplemental restraint system. I always change sides of the street to avoid other people and animals, or at least get off the path to prevent unnecessary meeting.

However, there's something about my dog that kids just love. They run up and throw their arms around her without warning. Small ones poke her eyes, pull her ears/tail, and pat her jowels. I never allow an unknown kid to pet my dog without giving instructions on how to approach dogs first.

A lot of parents are pretty irresponsible. Many don't enforce any kind of authority and do little if anything to teach them any common sense or courtesy. Consequently, kids old enough to know better just run up and stick their hands in the faces of strange dogs without permission even if the owner has switched sides of the street. I've had groups of 6 or more kids surround me and my dog.

It just so happens my dog loves kids (and people in general), but approaching a dog this way is a recipe for disaster. She's never bitten anyone, but if they surrounded her, refused my instructions to back off, scared or hurt her by accident, and got bitten, I'd be held responsible and she'd be euthanized despite the fact that it was the people who were acting like idiots.

Too many people feel threatened by anything that approaches them, but then feel they can simply run up to an unknown animal, do what they want, and think that someone else is responsible if the interaction goes poorly.

To the poster who hit the dog in the nose with the board as others said reason you never had trouble with that dog is you most likly killed it. Unlike us dogs can not controll how they breath. They breath through their nose and mouth and have no choice to only breth through their mouth. So in all likly hood you killed that dog.

Ive only had one dog out of probably 1000+ that have chased me be truely out for blood. Ive had the whole foaming mouth dog chase me on dozens of ocasions. Unlike what most think foaming at the mouth is not always because the dog is out for blood. Its a sign that the dog is excited in a extream way. They can just simply enjoy chasing you. I ave had one single ocasion where i had no choice but to be violent with a dog. It was a doby i slowed let it get under my pedal and back pedaled on its head. I hit him hard enough to give him a nice 4 inch gash on the top of his head. He never bother me again and i did see him in his yard many times after with a nice white scar on his head.

As for arch nemis dogs and dogs that chase you all the time i have a giant mastif that just loves to chase me. He does it for the pure enjoyment of it and i let him chase me around the block and stop back out in front of his house and give him a big drink of water in a bowle i stashed in the dry storm ditch.

I find the airzound to work well in most situations.

I absolutely hate it though when I'm biking in the country on a busy highway and a dog starts running towards me oblivious to opposing traffic. Luckily, I haven't witnessed any dogs being injured in such a way, but surely it's a matter of time if people's properties aren't fenced in.

I find the airzound to work well in most situations.

I absolutely hate it though when I'm biking in the country on a busy highway and a dog starts running towards me oblivious to opposing traffic. Luckily, I haven't witnessed any dogs being injured in such a way, but surely it's a matter of time if people's properties aren't fenced in.

Same i did see a cat comit suicide though. Dead serious here.

Cat running full speed towards a tree it jumps and hits head first smack dead center on the trunk breaking its neck. I found out later the cat ate a entire box of cat nip.

Funny in a sad sort of way.

As for airzound i think id run the other way to if some one blasted one of them in my ears ...

on some of the little short routes i ride here i get a good laugh out of the way dogs behave around me.

I like the big fat dogs who start to chase me and then just lay. Its like they are saying of hell with it im to tired to run.

Seen a good one today not once but twice a little mini pin puppy on a chain thought he or she would chase me. Got to the end of the chain and flop right on its back then it turned around and yipped at me as i road off.

If i get the job at the cop shop i bet that little dog gets loose and kills me one of these days heheh.

Oh and to any one who does at some point need to take amore violent action against a dog. Aim a kick right below where their neck meets their chest area. you can boot a large dog pretty dang hard there and not do any serious damage to them but it will in pretty much all cases send them running. Its extreamly painfull imaine getting punched right where your throat ends and chest begins.

I had to kick one dog years ago when on a deep woods hike with my friends it was out for blood and i knew it. So i gave him a good solid kickright there he yelled and ran off yelping. Again i seen him a couple other times and he stayed a very large distance from me.

If you have a dog friend in the neighbourhood who enjoys running with you, that is not exactly the same thing. That's a pal. We got the neighbourhood old graybeard dog that wanders the local roads with impunity, and pretty much total traffic sense, disgorged from the dog catcher van recently. A good dog is fine by me.

Running with me and attacking me are two different things, and if I can't guess the difference, I'm assuming the latter. Also I don't care what the foaming means or tail position of facial expressions. And I don't care if slowing down, or yelling "no", or whatever would call the dog off. Keep the dog off the road or I will make up my own mind.

In a lot of car accidents the police, or whatever, seem to assume it is always the cyclist's fault. Cars need to have the right of ease of circulation and bikes better not get in the way. Up to a certain extent I agree. Now apparently every dog has some absolute right to get in my way from my right side. I'm not buying it.

My kids know better than to approach dogs.

If you have a dog friend in the neighbourhood who enjoys running with you, that is not exactly the same thing. That's a pal. We got the neighbourhood old graybeard dog that wanders the local roads with impunity, and pretty much total traffic sense, disgorged from the dog catcher van recently. A good dog is fine by me.

Running with me and attacking me are two different things, and if I can't guess the difference, I'm assuming the latter. Also I don't care what the foaming means or tail position of facial expressions. And I don't care if slowing down, or yelling "no", or whatever would call the dog off. Keep the dog off the road or I will make up my own mind.

In a lot of car accidents the police, or whatever, seem to assume it is always the cyclist's fault. Cars need to have the right of ease of circulation and bikes better not get in the way. Up to a certain extent I agree. Now apparently every dog has some absolute right to get in my way from my right side. I'm not buying it.

My kids know better than to approach dogs.

My point is the dog does and will chase other riders who may not think hes friendly. Hes a huge dog and he barks his huge deep bark the whole time till he catches up. Many would see him threatenign who dont live here.

You cant judge a dog by the way they act when playing Many times their play posturing is the same as another dogs threat posturing.