"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Der Jan getting on form

Besides what he and his coaches say, I see no evidence that Jan is in any kind of form. Is there any way any rider, even one of Jan's talent, can get on tour winning form by July?

I'm not saying this lack of form is caused by laziness, and I don't want to add too much the the Jan bashing fad, but I just don't see how he could possibly win this year.

just because of his Romandie finish? seems like he's on for july peak.

Yeah, he has a history of being overweight and under-trained this time of year. I wouldn't put too much stock in all the doom and gloom stuff about him circulating right now.

IMHO Jan=top five rider this year at TdF

just because of his Romandie finish? seems like he's on for july peak.

Based on WHAT?

it's based wholly on it's may and we can't really tell yet. by the time the dauphine rolls around we'll get a better picture. still, i love all the hype; makes the tdf that much more exciting.

I guess, to be fair, I have to admit that he's been competitive in the TDF for a while, including last year, more or less. And this year's parcours may be set up for him, with no mountain finishes and no TTT. But I'm sitting here looking at the favorites, and I see Jan with a sketchy knee, no results, and a 115th-place finish in the Tour de Romandie, sixth-last among classified riders (!). His directors and coaches seem like they're whistling past the proverbial graveyard. Der Jan has every appearance of a rider on the decline, while Basso, Landis, Valverde, and arguably even Vino are rising stars. If I'm in a wagering facility in Euroland today, I'm looking to put money on him not even reaching the podium.

And 9 weeks to get his sh_t together...

We hear the same thing every year. Yet, every July Jan is there.

We hear the same thing every year. Yet, every July Jan is there.

Where, not on the podium?

And this year's parcours may be set up for him, with no mountain finishes and no TTT.

Stage 11, 15, and 16 are all mountain finishes I believe. Did I misunderstand you?

Doc, you're right. I stand corrected. Of course, this just makes it even LESS likely Der Jan will manage it...

Where, not on the podium?

Which TDF are you watching? TDF is the Tour De France, where he's missed the podium twice since 1996. Not the Tour of Flanders.

Doc, you're right. I stand corrected. Of course, this just makes it even LESS likely Der Jan will manage it...

You scared the crap out of me. It is bad enough that there is no TTT. A TDF without mountain finishes though! Mama Mia!

As to Der Jan, he will be there, mouth gaping wide open, as though to engulf the entirety of the earth's atmosphere with his next gasp, the conflicted pain of one who could be the best in the world (if only he could discipline himself like the 80+% majority of his peers) tearing through his facial features, his mind full of wonderment as to why, why must he not achieve the greatness for which he was meant.

Then he will retire and fatten himself up guilt free, knowing that he has always been in shape. After all, round is a shape.

Conspiracy theory alert: Jan is taking a page out of Lance's book and pretending he's not on good form. He wants them to think he's out of shape.

I don't buy that, but why not throw it out there. Anyway, Romandie was a tough course and it was his first race back, so I wouldn't get too excited yet. I think it took a lot of balls for him to do that race. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If he did race he was sure to be a little out of shape, and people would knock him for that. Lance never had the ball to race in a situation like that. If he didn't race everyone would say it was just Jan being lazy again. It's going to take a lot of balls for him to do the Giro for the same reason, and I hope he sticks to that plan. I have a feeling by the last week of the Giro we'll be talking about how good he's looking and how quickly he turned things around. Remember, he was always the kind of guy who started looking the best towards the end of the TDF.

Conspiracy theory alert: Jan is taking a page out of Lance's book and pretending he's not on good form. He wants them to think he's out of shape.

I don't buy that, but why not throw it out there. Anyway, Romandie was a tough course and it was his first race back, so I wouldn't get too excited yet. I think it took a lot of balls for him to do that race. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If he did race he was sure to be a little out of shape, and people would knock him for that. Lance never had the ball to race in a situation like that. If he didn't race everyone would say it was just Jan being lazy again. It's going to take a lot of balls for him to do the Giro for the same reason, and I hope he sticks to that plan. I have a feeling by the last week of the Giro we'll be talking about how good he's looking and how quickly he turned things around. Remember, he was always the kind of guy who started looking the best towards the end of the TDF.


I don't know if that theory is totally true, but I read somewhere (I'll search for the link) that someone saw him motorpacing up a stiff climb in Italy, and just screaming up the mountain... I wouldn't put too much weight on his romandie results. His performances in a few key Giro stages, will tell alot more.

DXChulo, in all fairness, Lance hasn't had the ballS since 1993...

making fun of cancer victims aside, racing romandie certainly took some cajones but the fact remains: the kaiser is in worse shape than normal (even for him).

Conspiracy theory alert: Jan is taking a page out of Lance's book and pretending he's not on good form. He wants them to think he's out of shape.


There are too many good riders and the Giro is too tough this year to care about Ullrich and whether or not he's been in der bratwurst.
Cunego and Basso are peaking, Basso won the Criterium internationale when he was just using it as a training race, and his TT times have been very impressive.
Training and racing are two different things...Jan has not been racing enough for any real impact at the Giro.

Looking at the Giro this year and those climbs, there very well might be a Giro-TDF winner in 06.

Please, he wasn't trying to win the Tour de Romandie, he was only looking to get some kilometres under his legs in a race. Look for him to put in a stronger performance at the Giro like DXChucko said.

..I really doubt he'll finish the Giro this year. This year is the most insane climbs in the history of the Giro and make Alp-d'huez look like the incline on my driveway.

Maybe, I haven't looked at the profile yet. On the one hand I hope that he has the sense to drop if he needs to to be on form for the TdF but on the other hand if he drops out, all hell will break loose in the media.

I don't think he will finish the giro, I think he will test himself in a TT or two and in some tough mountain stages, and then bow out.

guess what ?


Jan likes to mash a big gear


guess what else ?

he has chronic knee problems


coincidence ?

I betcha he has all the steam in the world to win a tour, but
I also believe his knees have left him...

Go read Lance Armstrong's War. Jan has dropped out of an early season race or two a couple times before, and come back plenty strong. The fact that he stuck it out AND plans on doing the GIRO says, in my mind, that he's mixing it up this year and might in fact be in better shape than most other years.

now that he's lost weight, I can't use this anymore...

He lost some weight...I still think that is still a legal picture!

There are too many good riders and the Giro is too tough this year to care about Ullrich and whether or not he's been in der bratwurst.
Cunego and Basso are peaking, Basso won the Criterium internationale when he was just using it as a training race, and his TT times have been very impressive.
Training and racing are two different things...Jan has not been racing enough for any real impact at the Giro.

Looking at the Giro this year and those climbs, there very well might be a Giro-TDF winner in 06.

There's no way Jan is going to even come close to winning the Giro, but he remains a big-time news story and people like to speculate about possible TDF winners all year long, so I think he'll attract his share of interest. Besides, say somebody opens up a huge lead by the end of week 2. All the side stories will start coming out.

I don't usually go for 2-time winners, but Savoldelli is still an underdog, so I'm rooting for him.

Salvodelli is the best high-speed bike handler, but he tends to crash doing this. I'm not so sure he would have won in 05 without Basso and Cunego getting sick.

Salvodelli is the best high-speed bike handler, but he tends to crash doing this. I'm not so sure he would have won in 05 without Basso and Cunego getting sick.


Yep I think that the Giro was Ivans to lose if he hadn't got the stomach bug. Besides the team that Disco sent to last years Giro was in no way going to compete with a healthy Basso and CSC. This year Disco will send a better team but it's still not as good as CSC, something that will become evident again in July.

What's scary is that Cunego is only 22 (!).

Ulle has missed podium in the TdF only once in 2004 when he finished fourth overall. There are plenty of threads that list his complete palmares.

1996: 2nd (to Team Telekom captain Bjarne Riis)
1997: 1st
1998: 2nd
1999: DNS
2000: 2nd
2001: 2nd
2002: DNS
2003: 2nd
2004: 4th
2005: 3rd

Ulle has missed podium in the TdF only once in 2004 when he finished fourth overall. There are plenty of threads that list his complete palmares.

1996: 2nd (to Team Telekom captain Bjarne Riis)
1997: 1st
1998: 2nd
1999: DNS
2000: 2nd
2001: 2nd
2002: DNS
2003: 2nd
2004: 4th
2005: 3rd

An impressive record, no doubt. It's particularly interesting up against that other record...

1993: DNF
1994: DNF
1995: 36th
1996: DNF
1997: DNS
1998: DNS
1999: 1st
2000: 1st
2001: 1st
2002: 1st
2003: 1st
2004: 1st
2005: 1st

The man has paid his dues. He has the a ability to go in and win. I can see how getting beatn by lance 7 times in a row would dampen your spirits. Maybe lance NOT being there wil give him the spark he needs to BELIEVE that he can actually win. I wanna see jan win more than anyone else, he deserves it.

I wanna see jan win more than anyone else, he deserves it.

Deserves it?! Why? Because he didn't put in the same hard work before the Tour that LA did? Because he's been beat by the same guy over and over? Because he was suspended from compitition for doing drugs? How does he deserve it more than Basso, Landis, or Vino? As for guys getting screwed Vino should be the one who deserves it, he had his own teammates chase him down when he was the only one on his team who had the guts to attack Armstrong.

Diablo, when did Der Kaiser get banned from competing for doing drugs? and how did I miss that?

Diablo, when did Der Kaiser get banned from competing for doing drugs? and how did I miss that?


He got busted for doing E years ago.

Diablo, when did Der Kaiser get banned from competing for doing drugs? and how did I miss that?

99, he was banned for doing recreational (as opposed to performance enhancing) drugs.

Jan - stay away from the Berliners!
(And I ain't talkin' about the inhabitants of said city!)

99, he was banned for doing recreational (as opposed to performance enhancing) drugs.

I think it was 2002, during the rehabilitation period after his knee surgery.

In 1999, Ullrich won the Vuelta and the World ITT.

He missed the 99 tour with a knee injury, but rebounded in time to win the Vuelta. He was suspended for 6 months in 2002 for failing a drug test.

He missed the 99 tour with a knee injury, but rebounded in time to win the Vuelta. He was suspended for 6 months in 2002 for failing a drug test.


Right, that's when he got cut from T-Mobile and became part of the Coast team that then went belly up and became Team Bianchi.

An impressive record, no doubt. It's particularly interesting up against that other record...

1993: DNF
1994: DNF
1995: 36th
1996: DNF
1997: DNS
1998: DNS
1999: 1st
2000: 1st
2001: 1st
2002: 1st
2003: 1st
2004: 1st
2005: 1st

Jan would probably be one of the winningest TDF riders in history were it not for that pesky LA character.

That being said, you dance with you ya brought, which leaves him as first loser, many times over. A first loser that I would give my left ball to ride like.

guess what ?


Jan likes to mash a big gear


guess what else ?

he has chronic knee problems


coincidence ?

I betcha he has all the steam in the world to win a tour, but
I also believe his knees have left him...

Jan mashes on more beautiful fraus in one week than you or I see in a lifetime.

He has chronic knee problems

coincidence?

I think not.

Besides what he and his coaches say, I see no evidence that Jan is in any kind of form. Is there any way any rider, even one of Jan's talent, can get on tour winning form by July?

I'm not saying this lack of form is caused by laziness, and I don't want to add too much the the Jan bashing fad, but I just don't see how he could possibly win this year.

Isn't this exactly how every single year for Jan pans out? He has an injury or two to delay his start, people see how "fat" he is and wonder if he can even finish the Tour, let alone win.........and, at the last minute, he recovers from all his injuries, and suddenly loses 20 pounds...happens every year.

Isn't this exactly how every single year for Jan pans out? He has an injury or two to delay his start, people see how "fat" he is and wonder if he can even finish the Tour, let alone win.........and, at the last minute, he recovers from all his injuries, and suddenly loses 20 pounds...happens every year.


True...however he has already started this season looking slimmer than ever at this point. Plus he has longer hair. And long hair = more gooder.

True...however he has already started this season looking slimmer than ever at this point. Plus he has longer hair. And long hair = more gooder.

Plus his cassette goes all the way to 11 ;)

Plus his cassette goes all the way to 11 ;)


Jan should ride on a fixed 53x11. Even in the mountains.

Apparently you missed the memo. He rides a 55.

And only has the rest of the cassette on there because the moans of the crushed souls would start too soon if they realized he was riding a fixie. It's all part of a plan, you see...

Apparently you missed the memo. He rides a 55.

And only has the rest of the cassette on there because the moans of the crushed souls would start too soon if they realized he was riding a fixie. It's all part of a plan, you see...


Nice.

Jan - stay away from the Berliners!
(And I ain't talkin' about the inhabitants of said city!)
Yeah for those of you old enough to remember, when Kennedy said, "Ich bin ein Berliner" he said, "I am a jelly donut." He should have said, "Ich bin Berliner."

Salvodelli is the best high-speed bike handler, but he tends to crash doing this. I'm not so sure he would have won in 05 without Basso and Cunego getting sick.
DocRay - I mostly enjoy your posts. But why is it that you can't (or don't want to) spell Savoldelli's name correctly? Enquiring minds want to know!