On my daily commute I ride on a bike route that parallels a major (6-lane road). The bike route is composed mostly of public roadways, but there are a couple of spots where the city has blocked the roads to through traffic by planting gardens / posts / chicanes - obstacles wide enough to let two wheeled vehicles through, but not 4-wheeled ones. This route is signied as a bike route, a fact reinforced by numerous bikes painted on the roadway, etc.
Lately I've caught a couple moto-scooter'ers using the bike route (not just the roadway parts, but the 'bikes only' paths as well). Clearly they are doing so to avoid the traffic on the much busier main road - which I'll admit is a circus of horrors - but these aren't even electric bikes or mopeds - I'm talking Vespa/Yamaha type things here.
Up until now I was content to shake my head and sneer in passing; but this dodge must be getting more popular, as this morning I encountered someone on an actual motorcycle. Any thoughts on how to deal with this? Call the cops? Parks & Rec? City Cycling Advocacy? What are other people's experiences with motos on the bikepath?
Treespeed
05-02-06, 10:48 AM
I would call the cops. I am sure there is a speed limit on this trail and that most likely motorized vehicles are illegal. Call before one of these idiots hits a ped.
ignominious
05-02-06, 10:50 AM
The proliferation of mopeds in the UK is such that a lot of bike/canal paths similar to your are gated with any of a variety of gates that are designed to prevent mopeds through. Usually this means that you have to dismount, push your bike into an extended kissing gate, swing the gate, pull it back out again and carry on until you reach the next road crossing. They are effective but a complete PITA, especially if you are riding in a group.
If mopeds are a significant issue and the police aren't prepared/able to crack down on them then they may be worth considering.
N_C
05-02-06, 11:21 AM
I would call all 3, police, parks & rec. & the local cycling advocacy group, in that order.
Roody
05-02-06, 11:37 AM
I wouod act on it too. those scooters are getting to be much more popular.
Nip it in the bud!!!!
sbhikes
05-02-06, 12:03 PM
That's just nutty. Why would anybody ride a Vespa on a bike path? Yes call the cops.
noisebeam
05-02-06, 12:53 PM
Of course contact authorities.
But also understand what the exact regulations are. Are motor driven vehciles specifically prohibited? By point of entry signage and/or local ordinances? Are speed limits posted and/or regulated by law? While I am sure they are prohibited, it would be good to have handy the reference in case it comes up in discussion.
Al
SirMike1983
05-03-06, 09:02 AM
One worse here:
A few weeks ago my girlfriend and I were walking on a dedicated bike trail. This trail is not a bike lane, rather a paved trail leading from Maryland to DC. The trail is not on any road, and only intersects a couple of actual roads. This trail is known as the "Capital Crescent" Trail. The trail goes through the woods into DC. Along our usual walk we heard something strange approaching from around a bend. Turns out someone somehow got a brand new BMW (a full sized car for sure) onto the trail and was driving on the trail at, probably, 35 mph or so. The problem is that this is a narrow trail (two small bike lanes, still less than the size of a single car travel lane) and the turns are fairly tight and blind, as it was not built for cars at all. The car appeared coming at us from around a blind corner and we were forced to scurry out of the way and into the wooded sides of the trail to avoid getting hit. About 10 min later we were walking still and the car came back from the other direction, again moving pretty quickly along. We moved out of the way again, but a man ahead of us walking his dog was forced to bail out of the way and yank his dog with him to avoid a collision. The car didnt' really do much to slow down.
Trek_Rider_05
05-03-06, 09:22 AM
One worse here:
A few weeks ago my girlfriend and I were walking on a dedicated bike trail. This trail is not a bike lane, rather a paved trail leading from Maryland to DC. The trail is not on any road, and only intersects a couple of actual roads. This trail is known as the "Capital Crescent" Trail. The trail goes through the woods into DC. Along our usual walk we heard something strange approaching from around a bend. Turns out someone somehow got a brand new BMW (a full sized car for sure) onto the trail and was driving on the trail at, probably, 35 mph or so. The problem is that this is a narrow trail (two small bike lanes, still less than the size of a single car travel lane) and the turns are fairly tight and blind, as it was not built for cars at all. The car appeared coming at us from around a blind corner and we were forced to scurry out of the way and into the wooded sides of the trail to avoid getting hit. About 10 min later we were walking still and the car came back from the other direction, again moving pretty quickly along. We moved out of the way again, but a man ahead of us walking his dog was forced to bail out of the way and yank his dog with him to avoid a collision. The car didnt' really do much to slow down.
I know DC aint NYC, but, DC is certainly one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country. Weve pushed over 6.5 million now, and that isnt including baltimore. I bring this up because in NYC you almost expect to see anything and everything. Having been born and raised in Washington, I have grown to expect the same here. NOTHING surprises me anymore. I have seen a full on CAR on a bike path before. Sadly, it isnt the first time, and wont be the last. If I were you, I would have written down the tag number, and called the police. I always, always, always carry my cell phone with me no matter what. I keep it packed away while riding, and always pull off the trail before I even think about going into the pack ( which is right in front of me) and getting it.
ITs a useful tool and I have no problems using it to get someone who is dangerously breaking the law in trouble for doing so.
What gets me is that they make it extremely easy for CARS to get onto some of the trails around here. I mean one fat metal pole in the center of the pathway is sure easy enough to get a car around. I just dont understand it. I once even discussed it with a law enforcement officer, and his reasoning was that the trails are so heavily used, that there is a need to get police vehicles (read cars) onto the trails at times.
While I understand that, I dont get why they just dont use more BICYCLE law enforcement. Even moped or motor cycles. At least that way they CAN make the entrances to these trails "CAR PROOF".
I mean really, whats does it take to get the national park service to patrol the national park bike trails, with CYCLOCOPS???
noisebeam
05-03-06, 09:36 AM
One worse here:
I don't see this as worse, more of a one of case of some idiot driving on the path, due to stupidity or confusion, not practicallity.
Worse to me is motorcycles/vespas regularly using a bike path for the practical benefits of avoiding traffic as in the OPs situation.
Al
SirMike1983
05-03-06, 10:19 AM
I know DC aint NYC, but, DC is certainly one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country. Weve pushed over 6.5 million now, and that isnt including baltimore. I bring this up because in NYC you almost expect to see anything and everything. Having been born and raised in Washington, I have grown to expect the same here. NOTHING surprises me anymore. I have seen a full on CAR on a bike path before. Sadly, it isnt the first time, and wont be the last. If I were you, I would have written down the tag number, and called the police. I always, always, always carry my cell phone with me no matter what. I keep it packed away while riding, and always pull off the trail before I even think about going into the pack ( which is right in front of me) and getting it.
ITs a useful tool and I have no problems using it to get someone who is dangerously breaking the law in trouble for doing so.
What gets me is that they make it extremely easy for CARS to get onto some of the trails around here. I mean one fat metal pole in the center of the pathway is sure easy enough to get a car around. I just dont understand it. I once even discussed it with a law enforcement officer, and his reasoning was that the trails are so heavily used, that there is a need to get police vehicles (read cars) onto the trails at times.
While I understand that, I dont get why they just dont use more BICYCLE law enforcement. Even moped or motor cycles. At least that way they CAN make the entrances to these trails "CAR PROOF".
I mean really, whats does it take to get the national park service to patrol the national park bike trails, with CYCLOCOPS???
Yeah, it's the only time I've seen a car on the trail. I'm not sure how or why he got on the trail but he did. I think a removable metal stopper poll at each entrance might help. Law enforcement could remove the poll if need be, but it would still stop nuts in BMWs from speeding around the trail. I suppose there should be some form of law on the trail. After all, highways have their patrols to prevent anarchy on the road. The bike trails are turning into bicycle highways of sorts here in DC, I think. You even have the exit and entrance ramps now.
I do think the car is worse though. I'd go head to head with a moped before a speeding car. I'd hate to have to add "bicyclist/walker" to the class of animals known as: "windshield splatter bug and bird in the car grill".:rolleyes:
But less common than the moped abusers? I sure as hell hope so! I'll have to take out "walking insurance" if otherwise.
TYB069
05-03-06, 10:32 AM
In college, moped riders did whatever the heck they wanted. As a bit of irony, they were mostly athletes(!!) or rich kids from the east coast (nothing against the coast, I lived near boston as a child). They were absolutely crazy. They would ride where ever they wanted. Frequently they would ride on the sidewalks and then just suddenly go into the road or vice versa. I think the general lawlessness was because both groups seemed to think of themselves as better than the average student working two jobs just to pay tution. In fact, to the general student population they were even more hated than cyclists. That is saying something!!!
Wulfheir
05-03-06, 11:50 AM
If they go slow and are attentive, I don't see a problem. But if they are racing thru there, probably a cause for concern.
sgtsmile
05-03-06, 02:39 PM
This route is signied as a bike route, a fact reinforced by numerous bikes painted on the roadway, etc.
Call the police. Absolutely. Without hesitation. For any motorized use of it.
AndrewP
05-03-06, 02:50 PM
I see no problem with scooters or motorbikes provided they go at bicycle speed. Just get the Ipod wearing pedestrians off the bike paths.
Alox
05-03-06, 03:52 PM
I called the cops, they said that there was nothing that they could do about the incident if I didn't have proof, or a plate number. Figures.
I sent an email to the city cycling committee at city hall. Vancouver is a very pro-bike city, just not very timely in their replies. I'll post an update when I get one.
As for me, if it ever happens again, I'll be sure to stop the rider and talk to them, maybe try to use my cell phone camera to snap a picture of them and their license plates. At least then I'll have a little something to show the cops.
I once got a photo ticket for running a red light (in my car) - if that technique is good enough for the province, a photo of a moto, on a bikepath, with plate should be good enough for the city, right?
Alox
05-03-06, 03:54 PM
I see no problem with scooters or motorbikes provided they go at bicycle speed. Just get the Ipod wearing pedestrians off the bike paths.
Would you tolerate a motor-bike on the Lachine canal bike path?
ken cummings
05-03-06, 09:31 PM
The 26 mile long Santa Ana River Trail in southern California is regularly patroled by city and state motorbike officers. Usually evenings in summer I have seen civillians on motorbikes too. When I could I got make,. model, color, and plate numbers. And called them in. Physically stopped one car driven by a yound Hispana accompanied by an older lady from getting on to the path. Couldn't get them to go back onto the public roads til I started yelling La Migra, La Migra. I would not recommend having your own spike strips, the Bikers I saw didn't look like anyone I should be messing with.
In Northern Cal club rides avoid the paths at dusk and night due to the street people and dealers hanging out there.
Daily Commute
05-04-06, 02:06 AM
Also consider a letter to your local paper. Explain that you welcome the moped riders on the path--as long as they ride a bicycle.
If the conventional means don't work (give them time), consider organizing a protest. Invite only level-headed people who won't do stupid things. Pick a spot on the path with lots of visibility from both directions (so that there won't be any accidents). When a moped approaches, block the path with your bikes and refuse to let them pass. Be ready to step aside if any violence is threatened.
I have no clue about whether this kind of protest would break any local laws, so you might want to talk with the local authorities before trying it. The mere fact that you tell the cops you're thinking about blocking the path might make them understand that the situation needs their attention.
geo8rge
05-04-06, 07:28 AM
I think signs need to be posted with rules of the road. I personally think light vehicle only roads small might be a good idea.
Alox
05-04-06, 11:56 AM
FYI, a reply from the city:
Hi Alex,
Thank you for bring this to our attention. As for solutions
there are 4 things we can do,
1) Put up some more signs with regard to the problem...eg.. No motorized vehicles on bike lane etc..
2) Need to tell the police whets going on
3) Find out what time is worse and we can go monitor the problem
4) Try and get the violators licence plate number....then the police can send them a warning.
If you are able to observe numbers 3 & 4 and provide me with that information, I can get that to
our enforcement officers.
I will observe the area myself and look at installing additional signs.
Kind regards
____________________
Thank You,
(name deleted)
City of Vancouver
Engineering Services
And My Reply:
Hi, thanks for your reply. I actually encountered a moto-scooter on the path on my commute home yesterday. I attempted to snap a picture of the offender that I had encountered with my cellphone, but by the time I had taken it out of my pocket, he was long gone. If you want to try to catch people in the act, I'd suggest lying in wait between 8am and 9am or 5pm and 6pm. These are the times when I have observed motorscooters / motorbikes on the path myself, as I use it for my daily commute. These are also the times when SE Marine is busiest, and when motorists are most likely to look for an alternate route.
I'll send a note to the police as well, but I doubt they'd be too pleased if I called them every time I saw an errant motorist.
Alex
dynaryder
05-04-06, 12:35 PM
A few weeks ago my girlfriend and I were walking on a dedicated bike trail. This trail is not a bike lane, rather a paved trail leading from Maryland to DC. The trail is not on any road, and only intersects a couple of actual roads. This trail is known as the "Capital Crescent" Trail.
Which end? In Bethesda,there's a spot where it runs across the road with no barriers,so an obliviot could easily gain access. The DC is pretty well closed unless they got onto the C&O Canal and crossed over,but you'd prolly need a 4x4 to do it. This is the first I've ever heard of something like this happening.
I think I may have been temped to try and stop them on the second pass and ask them "WTF?". This is beyond just dangerous into stupid. It doesn't take long to figure out that you're not on a regular road,and even if it was a mistake they should've been going very slowly.
unkchunk
05-04-06, 02:30 PM
I think a removable metal stopper poll at each entrance might help.
The MUP near me removed all those stoper polls (bollard or stop block) a few years ago. One day they were there, and the next they were all gone. Seems that a cyclist hit one in Chicago and won a big judgement. I'd be amazed if any MUP still has them.
Which end? In Bethesda,there's a spot where it runs across the road with no barriers,so an obliviot could easily gain access. The DC is pretty well closed unless they got onto the C&O Canal and crossed over,but you'd prolly need a 4x4 to do it. This is the first I've ever heard of something like this happening.
I think I may have been temped to try and stop them on the second pass and ask them "WTF?". This is beyond just dangerous into stupid. It doesn't take long to figure out that you're not on a regular road,and even if it was a mistake they should've been going very slowly.
I think he came on in Bethesda. He came from that direction initially. He probably jumped on in that area by the Volvo service center where the small driveway connects. Of course I don't know why he thought it was a road. To be frank I think he did it on purpose. He had plenty of time to see it was a trail and turn around. We encountered him a few hundred yards from the old Brick Train tunnel on the Maryland side of the tunnel. He had plenty of time to turn around before that. I wanted to say something but he was moving so fast all I could do was get out of the way and not get hit. I've never seen that before on the trail.
buzzman
05-04-06, 11:10 PM
don't mean to hijack a thread but I think it fits the subject. how do you all feel about these stupid things (http://www.segway.com/solutions/recreational/) on the bike path?
Daily Commute
05-05-06, 03:16 AM
FYI, a reply from the city:
Hi Alex,
Thank you for bring this to our attention. As for solutions
there are 4 things we can do,
1) Put up some more signs with regard to the problem...eg.. No motorized vehicles on bike lane etc..
2) Need to tell the police whets going on
3) Find out what time is worse and we can go monitor the problem
4) Try and get the violators licence plate number....then the police can send them a warning.
If you are able to observe numbers 3 & 4 and provide me with that information, I can get that to
our enforcement officers.
I will observe the area myself and look at installing additional signs.
Kind regards
____________________
Thank You,
(name deleted)
City of Vancouver
Engineering Services
And My Reply:
Hi, thanks for your reply. I actually encountered a moto-scooter on the path on my commute home yesterday. I attempted to snap a picture of the offender that I had encountered with my cellphone, but by the time I had taken it out of my pocket, he was long gone. If you want to try to catch people in the act, I'd suggest lying in wait between 8am and 9am or 5pm and 6pm. These are the times when I have observed motorscooters / motorbikes on the path myself, as I use it for my daily commute. These are also the times when SE Marine is busiest, and when motorists are most likely to look for an alternate route.
I'll send a note to the police as well, but I doubt they'd be too pleased if I called them every time I saw an errant motorist.
Alex
It looks like the city is doing the right thing. Good work. After the city has had a chance to address the problem, please come back with an update.
nova
05-05-06, 06:15 AM
I would call the cops. I am sure there is a speed limit on this trail and that most likely motorized vehicles are illegal. Call before one of these idiots hits a ped.