So, after eveyones's help here and eslewhere my "free tandem" got some real action this weekend. My wife and I signed up for a group ride with about 200 singles. It was in and around Memphis proper as it was a "share the road" ride using all the various bike routes. IE, it was way too much stop and start for a tandem team. But in the end we put in 53 miles with an 18 average so we were moving along quite briskly all the time, even on the hills.

Post ride my body shut down. I did not feel that tired post race but after getting home, taking on some fuel and shower WHAM, nap time! My whole body is sore. I suspect controlling the beast takes much more than a single and I was running on testosterone keeping things going. My stoker says she barely got her heart rate up and needed to go for a run for her daily fix. (she is an accomplished marathon runner).

Well crud! Here I am zonked and she needs to go for a run? She said all she could do was follow my cadence. She said "gear" which meant either shift down when we were mashing or shift up when cadence became too fast for her. So I thought I was giving her the right gears. There was one time when after two hills I was still recovering and here came another one. I told her to put on the coal and she did and I didn't have to. I know she can do it but she commented she felt along for the ride.

What do you veterans suggest? Do I tell her when we need "coal" for hills as she may not see them so I start pushing hard well before she realizes we are in need of some extra push. We were passing fit singles on the hills which I had not expected. But we need to figure out how to get her working harder. Maybe put my HRM/Speedo on her bars so she can see what is going on? She likes a good workout. Ride 100 and she would get one. Maybe head out for an hour and let her push hard all the time and I will back off. Let me stoke and she can drive. Not sure. Thought you guys would have some suggestions.

Thanks!

Burley Duet c. 1994 Burley could not tell me date of mfg with my serial number :( so they gave me a guess.

Is your stoker a seasoned cyclist? Run does not cross over to cycling as well as cycling crosses over to running. If she is not a seasoned cyclist, I would say she is unaware of just how much load one puts on their quads when riding fast. If she uses a heart rate monitor when running, using it on the tandem would be a good idea.

Sounds mostly like a simple lack of experience though which will be solved through time. Can you hear her breathing hard through her mouth on the climbs? Do you feel like you are pulling her feet and pedals around? When you ask for 'coal' does the bike shoot forward?

All captains have had the same issue at one time or another. I remember just killing myself climbing a long, steep hill in our lowest gear when my stoker starts talking about getting something to eat out of the handlebar bag.... I said in between grunts....'honey, if you can talk right now, much less eat, you are not pedalling hard enough...stop talking and pedal'...... She got a little miffed at that but later I told her that when we are climbing a hard hill she needs to concentrate on getting up and over the hill. Then she can eat and talk all she wants.

AD-SLE,

My wife/stoker is also a runner. It is hard for a non cyclist to get a good workout in the first several months. They just do not have the muscles needed to pedal long and hard.

We have a number system that describes upcoming hills 1- 5. 1 being short/slight and 5 being long/steep. I would call: "1-5" to let her know that a short/steep hill is upon us or "3-2" for a medium size moderate climb. At first, when I called a hill, she would look over my shoulder and question my judgment, now, either our judgment is very close, or she has given up on educating me.

All captains have had the same issue at one time or another. I remember just killing myself climbing a long, steep hill in our lowest gear when my stoker starts talking about getting something to eat out of the handlebar bag.... I said in between grunts....'honey, if you can talk right now, much less eat, you are not pedalling hard enough...stop talking and pedal'...... She got a little miffed at that but later I told her that when we are climbing a hard hill she needs to concentrate on getting up and over the hill. Then she can eat and talk all she wants.

One of the problems with a new team is Compromise. You think you are the stronger rider so you try to compensate by putting in effort. Just face it- One of you is going to be a weaker rider-and believe it or not- that is the level you have to drop to. If the strong rider tries to carry the weak one- the ride is not going to be enjoyable, for either of you.

I had a succession of co-pilots initially but it did not work. The ultra strong rider went up the first hill at a tremendous rate- until he ran out of energy. I was trying to stay with his cadence and speed and effort but just could not do it. Halfway up the hill and the strong rider found out how heavy a Tandem is and ran out of energy completely- I then tried to carry him but not long before we were off and walking. I then took over as pilot and I controlled the cadence- speed and effort and we did not walk up any more hills that day. Tried a few more trips with him but it did not work. Then I found my current Pilot- He came on as stoker and learn't my cadence and effort- and the speed was higher. He is now pilot as he has that strong upper body and the team works, because Although initially we had to compromise riding styles- It worked. Then in the last 4 years it has improved.


Look at it this way- Ride on the flat with the weak rider putting in 80% of his/her effort and the strong putting in 80% again. It is not tiring at all but one will be putting in 40% of total effort and the other 60% (As example only) Now you want to increase by 10%. If the weak now puts in the extra 10%,and also the strong rider, then you will find that the ratio is still 60/40. If it is only the strong rider that puts in the 10% then that rider will be tiring very quickly, as the ratio has dropped to 66/34 (Example again so don't query my theory on figures) Point is that you should both be putting in the same effort according to your capabilities.
You can each check the amount of effort required to sustain a certain speed at the 80% of effort by first one of you stopping pedalling and just keeping the feet on the pedals and then the other. I find that If we are at 20mph with little effort- then I can maintain that speed on my own for about 2 minutes on the flat, before I really have to put in effort.

The way to start on the team riding is to let the stoker-Weak rider? control the cadence- effort and speed. If the rider is accomplished- she can tell you when to change gear- when to power on when to slow down. The pair of you will have to compromise but it will work- Not very well but it will work. Then gradually the compromise will get less as the pair of you adjust to each other and believe it or not- it will become natural for both of you. That is when the team will start working. No time span or milage on this but took us about 500 miles before the team got together.

The stoker's feet have to go around at the same cadence, but they don't have to put any pressure on the pedals, if they choose. If they're not pushing on the pedals, they may not get much of a workout. Personally I like the HRM approach. That will allow her to work at the level she wants for her workout, and she can learn the difference between hammering and soft pedaling. Plus you don't have to be the one pestering her to pedal harder.

I've found its hard some times for less experienced cyclists to put much power out at higher cadences. So one thing you can do is lower the cadence a bit, and gear up, until she learns to put out more power at a higher cadence.

And Galen, I know exactly what you're talking about. Nothing more annoying than idle chatter in your ear when you're about to die going up a hill. Somehow, " the if you can talk..." line is rarely well received however.

Share the "load" ... damn, I thought this threat was about somethign totally different ;)

Galen, you had me in tears laughing! I don't think it ever got that bad Sunday but there were times things sounded way too chipper from the back. I decided she must be in far better shape than me and it was my ill condition that caused me to be anerobic on the climb!

If I can boast, she came in second in her age group at the recent St. Louis Marathon with a 3:18 which is moving for a 44 year old. She works very hard at her conditioning and is looking into Triathalons. Since I can't run to the mailbox with my bad knees, a tandem seemed like a happy middle ground. I am relatively strong on a bike for some reason but I do not think she has tested herself on a single bike recently. So, I have no intent to suggest she is not strong, I think maybe they are different muscles that have to be developed. Sapfam, you raise an interesting approach. I will back off and experiment. Riding with fellow riders (singles) and trying to keep up with them is a workout and not a great time to learn how to share the load.

Thanks for the input. I look forward to another 50+ mile outing.

...it was way too much stop and start for a tandem team. But in the end we put in 53 miles with an 18 average so we were moving along quite briskly all the time, even on the hills.

If you averaged 18 M.P.H. (not K.P.H.) with lots of stop and go, she was working. It sounds like you just need to keep working on style and communications and all should be happy. My stoker and I rode a 60 mile ride over rolling terrain on Saturday, led our group of about 20 (half bikes) all the way, few stops and gos, no wind, and only averaged 17.3 M.P.H. Now this was at an elevation of about 5,000', so the air is thinner, but shouldn't make that much of a difference. The roads were all chip-sealed, so that can hurt your speed, too, but an 18 M.P.H. average isn't bad at all for a new team.

Hang in there, relax and enjoy the experience. The tension of being a new captain can also take a lot out of you. Also, it may take some time to get everything dialed in. I remember our first tandem century, only two weeks after our new tandem was delivered. It was a real killer, and I wondered whether or not I (we) had made a mistake. Now, we can't stay off of the beast!

We're a new team with only about 900 miles on our tandem new this spring, just got back from 500 miles in Tuscany. Our cycling levels are very different but it worked out pretty well. For the long rides when I'd feel her pushing I'd usually say "save it for the end when it gets ugly" and she finished the first long ride (98.5 hilly miles, about 7000 feet of climbing) in good shape-it never did get ugly. Her longest ride before that was 74 really flat miles just rolling along. So even though I was spent, it was a good thing as she was apprehensive before the ride ("can we really make it?" "what if we can't ride that far?")

I think each person can pedal as hard or as easy and they want. I have my wife run a heart rate monitor so I can make sure she doesn't push too hard and she can make sure she pushes hard enough to work off some of the gelato.

My husband and I are relatively new to tandeming (started last year) so I may be able to give you the rear seat perspective. We both ride single road bikes, so I have a bit more experience in the biking area than your stoker. We got the tandem so that we could BOTH get a workout TOGETHER. Husband does some bike racing and has one speed - ON. To keep marital discord in check and to prevent wife from perishing on long rides where husband was resting every few minutes waiting for wife to catch up, lbs owner finally convinced us to buy a tandem (he and his wife have five!). Best thing we ever did.

To keep your tandem from being a "princess dragger" (term used by a local blogger...), I'd suggest that you BOTH have heart rate monitors. Adjusting for individual max heart rate differences, you can keep tabs on relative work output for both riders. For example, my max heart rate is about 10 beats lower than my husband's so we're working equally hard when our heart rates are about 10 digits apart. And I will point out that sometimes our tandem is a "prince pusher" because the stoker seems to be doing all the work according to the hrms.... I will say that without heart rate monitors for both of us, my dear husband would pretty much scoff when I told him how hard I was pedalling just to keep up (on single bikes, anyway).

I agree with the previous poster who said you may want to give early alert about hills and assess steepness for your stoker. I'm 5'1" and my captain is 5'11" and I really dislike finding myself on a hill I didn't expect with no knowledge about gradient or length. My husband is very good about letting me know how much farther we've got to go (in metres, no less!) so I can provide as much power as needed.

I also agree with previous posters that tandeming is much more stressful for new captains than new stokers, and that may have contributed to your exhaustion. I have thoroughly enjoyed the tandem from minute one. My husband found the tandem experience quite a bit harder than riding his single bike and it took a bit longer to be comfortable with his new (and very different) responsibilities of captaining the tandem. Also, the stoker is protected from most of the wind while the captain is the permanent head of the paceline.

Your 18 mph sounds like a pretty good pace for a new team!

Communicate, communicate! Best to let stoker know what's happening; whether shifting, braking, coasting, slowing, up or down hills, potholes/bumps you can't avoid. Stoker is not a mind reader!
Also try pedaling 90 degrees out-of-phase (OOP); that'll quickly show if stoker (or pilot) is trying to overpower partner. It takes a bit of practice to be an effective tandem team.
18 mph average! Great, but seems pilot was just trying to beat the singles and beat himself up while stoker was along for a nice ride! It takes 2 to be a team.
We're in our 70s (old folks?) and 31+ years of tandeming experience; been there/done that. We no longer hammer and average 20+ mph and do 50+ mph downhills; we no longer do centuries and grueling hill climbs (325 miles in 3 days with 22,000 ft. of climbing and 104 degrees at the finish line). However we still ride tandem 5 days a week, year 'round. Slower? You bet! Having fun? You bet! Are we a tandem team? You bet!
So communicate lots, ride a compromise pace and enjoy the tandem experience.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Some good advice here, especially from zonatandem and Lakes and River (who sound exactly like Mr. and Mrs. Octopus!).

We've got about 1,500 miles on our new-to-us tandem this season and we're still in the process of dialing in the communication aspect of riding together. What we've learned so far, though, is that too much information from the Captain is never a bad thing. She's never once told me to shut up when I'm dishing out details on the grade and length of the climb, the sharpness of the upcoming corner, the color of the traffic light, the impending terrain feature, the gear selection -- whatever. We've been developing, without intending to, a strange new language for communicating information, where a few words stand in for what would otherwise take a few sentences to describe. "Down and up," for example, means, "We're going to descend sharply, about 100 feet or less, into a creek valley and then immediately climb out if it. The climb is such that if we pedal on the downhill in the big ring and a small cog, we'll clear the ascent without shifting the front derailleur and without having to stand." Making up a new language is a lot of fun!

The communication has gotten so much focus that after a weekend of riding the tandem, I've more than once found myself on a weekday hammerfest with the local racers, pulling the group up a climb, only to announce -- for no reason apparent to any of the other riders, "The steepest pitch of the climb is coming up in 5 seconds and it'll last for 20 seconds." :lol:

Octopus. . . (or is round on the ends and HI in the middle?)
Yup, in the years of tandeming have caught myself riding the half bike and saying stuff out loud . . . like 'shifting', 'braking' . . . it always brings a smile to my face and has the other single riders wondering about me!

Octopus
(TWOgethering since January)
I have become a real Chatty Cathy on the tandem on advise front Jack and Susan at Tandems LTD in Birmingham. I have found that you can't give your stoker enough info and praise on what's going on and how well she's doing and contributing. As a result I end up talking out loud on club rides on my 1/2 bike not realizing that other's are around.LOL!!

There are also problems when the stoker transitions back to a single bike - like forgetting to steer and shift or clipping out with the opposite foot (although I'm working to change my single bike habit). I would LOVE to have a jersey that says, "My other bike's a tandem" because I look like a real lunatic for the first 15 minutes as I adjust to that steering thing... Mercifully, I usually ride my single bike solo (without a group) during the weekdays so I'm just frightening the occasional neighbor.