Bicycle Mechanics - Should I buy a junker and take it apart?

I would like to learn more about bike mechanics, but am reluctant to work on my own bike, for fear I would never get it back together again. I can buy an old rusted ten speed road bike for $10. I thought I would get one and take it apart to learn how it's put together. I guess I would need a basic bike tool kit (maybe from Park Tools?). Is this a good idea? :thumbup:

Excellent idea, although the junker probably has older technology than the newer bikes, it will give you confidence in working on your own bike.

You could always volunteer to work on your friends' bikes, that way if something goes wrong you can still go for a ride :D

As aerobat pointed out, a $10 ten speed may bear no internal resemblence to your actual ride, but getting your hands dirty and skinning up your knuckles on it may give you the confidence to dive into your own repairs. Additionally, the tools that work on a $10 ten speed may or may not carry over to use on your current ride.

There are a ton of resources in print, on the net (this forum being one of them) and through your LBS to help you out. The most important thing is that you recognize the limitations of your knowledge and capability just before, not just after you break a high dollar part. ;)

Besides the different stuff that may apply to your bike,different tools too.I can imagine 10 speed junkers that would have nothng in common with your bike,so why bother,it could only confuse the issue.

trm: 3 bits of advice:

Don't buy cheap tools! - they will only frustrate you! They don't work properly when new, usually break before too long, and seem to make things worse at the most inopportune times.

Stay away from rusty stuff! - It makes everything more complicated and some things impossible. If you're trying to learn, rusty parts makes the learning curve a lot steeper and longer. Penetrating oil such as WD-40 is a requirement for freeing up threads, even if things don't look rusty.

Get a good manual! - A good one with pictures is priceless. Some bike parts are impossible to remove without knowing where to start and what tools you'll need.

Good Luck!

Penetrating oil such as WD-40 is a requirement for freeing up threads, even if things don't look rusty.

When working on junkers, a propane torch is usually quicker and easier.....

All joking aside, I think it is a good idea.
Even tho you won't be working on new ergo, sti,
index type of shifting alot of the basics will be the same.
Headset (with the exception of crown etc. on threadless
but the principle is the same), bottom bracket, derailleurs
etc. I say go for it, and while you're at it, look for a
"decent" junker, you just might have a nice classic
steel ride when you're done.

Marty

You can always do what I have done in the past.
Try to figure it out, screw it up, or my favorite - loose some tiny part, then take it to the bike shop and let them fix it.

The bike shop loves it ;). They get to make money and they get to make fun of you (or me in most cases).

Seriously, I have developed a good relationship with the LBS, they don't even laugh anymore or at least they wait until I leave, and I have learned a lot over the years. I have discovered I often know more about older parts than the twenty-something wrench jockey. Also I have discovered that it is just like any craft or skill you have to do it (wrenching) often to be competant at it.

Get some good tools and a good manual and wrench away.
Good Luck.

Blake

Originally posted by lotek
All joking aside, I think it is a good idea.
Even tho you won't be working on new ergo, sti,
index type of shifting alot of the basics will be the same.
Headset (with the exception of crown etc. on threadless
but the principle is the same), bottom bracket, derailleurs
etc. I say go for it, and while you're at it, look for a
"decent" junker, you just might have a nice classic
steel ride when you're done.

Marty Current HS may not only be threadless,and totally different,but cartridge bearing.New BB are caartridge bearing as are many new hubs. Not much to be learned from friction derailers in an index world.especially if one needs to know how to properly adjust index or sti/ergo shifting.One piece and cottered cranks are also kinda out.......Not to mention the difference in tools as required to get into threaded HS and cup and cone BB, although it is possible with a big enough cresent or monkey wrench it may not be an 'approved technique'........Not to say there may not be an adequate learner out there,if one shops carefully...............Besides, many of the underinformed start taking things apart that really should not have been. Like how many times have I seen-HOW DO I PUT MY STI SHIFTER BACK TOGETHER? Better IMHO to buy a good well illustrated maintenance book and proper tools,that apply to your bike, and think it through before putting a tool to something. As long as something is not severely crosss threaded or broke by ham fistedness it is fixable.

you need special tools to take apart your own bike,
and if you do take them apart, make it point to remember how many turn you did on the screw your taking out, then you lay them one after another , so when your putting it back you will put it back the way you took it out, that is the most basic thing or at least the simplest way of doing it. and bike mechanic doesn't need a brain surgeon to do bike repairs,

I am not sure if you have a road bike or not but www.bfr-it.com is a good place for beginners to intermediate. It is missing some aspects for advanced but is still a better tool than any book on its own.

It is a worthwhile CD to own.

Since somebody has mentioned headsets......

It may be a very disheatening experience for a newby working on an old clunker when, upon loosening the headset, he is confronted with several dozen tiny ball-bearing falling onto the floor!

Originally posted by D*Alex
Since somebody has mentioned headsets......

It may be a very disheatening experience for a newby working on an old clunker when, upon loosening the headset, he is confronted with several dozen tiny ball-bearing falling onto the floor! Well yes,but that is just part of the learning experience.One should always work on a surface with no cracks in it,and no clutter for things to hide under....I won't ask how you know about this.

Well, I'm not advocating just getting the bike and
start ripping it apart with no rhyme or reason.
I just think that using a good manual (Zinn, Bicycling, Barnetts
take your pick) and diving in is the best way to actually learn.
There is always BF or LBS to fall back on if all goes to applesause
(to quote pokey). I do think there is a correlation between the
old stuff and new. yeah there are different bearings, adjustments
etc. but I believe that you kinda get a feel for what you're doing,
and the newer stuff begins to make sense.

Marty

This is exactly what I did. Bought a '70s era Schwinn 10-speed for 15 bucks. No, I didn't learn how to work on STI or Ergo, but I did learn:

Headset cleaning, servicing, and adjustment

Bottom bracket cleaning, servicing, and adjustment

Hub cleaning, servicing, and adjustment

Bearing servicing in general - applies to cup and cone hubs, bottom bracket and headset

Cable/housing replacement which applies to all bikes with multiple speeds or hand brakes

Derailleur removal, installation, and adjustment which applies to all multi-speed bikes

Brake removal, installation, and adjustment, which applies to just about all bikes.

Crankset removal/installation

Yes, I did have to buy some special tools, some of which may be of limited use on more modern bikes, but I considered that part of the cost of the education. All in all I probably spent less on the bike, 2 or 3 special tools, and a good manual, than I would spend on a new rear derailleur or inexpensive crankset. The education was worth much more.

Go for it. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I started pulling apart bikes 25 years ago, and even though some of the technologies have changed, it has been invaluable in giving me the confidence to work on my 'good' bike and pull apart anything.

In fact, I would say that many of the new technologies are easier to work on than the old ones. (e.g. a cartidge BB is much easier to install than an older one). So if you get the hang of pulling apart and reassembling an older bike with all its problems (cheap, rusted and worn components), you'll be in good shape to maintain a newer better built bike).

Regarding tools. To work on your good bike, I second the advice to buy good tools. However, to work on a junker, you'd be suprised what you can do with minimal (and creatively applied) tools.

I recommend getting a junker for a different reason -- there is no better practical (comfortable, efficient, theft-resistant) transportation bike than a 10-speed of the bike boom era. However, these are economically attractive only if you can do much of the work yourself. I have rebuilt numerous bikes from the frame up and I am currently enjoying my current project, converting an early 70s Peugeot UO-8 into a cycle-cross and commuting bike.

However, if you do not fancy yourself ever riding an old beater, you should probably not bother with working on one.

Go for man. you have everything to gain and nothing to loose. I've been taking things apart that I should have and shouldn't have for most my life and I'll tell you it's a blast. I just bought my first Campy record parts and the rear derialleur is completely torn apart and I haven't even used it yet. I know more about current record derialleurs than probably anyone in the area just because I took it apart. It helps to have more than one bike so you can take your sweet time. Don't let anyone disuade you from learning and exploring your imediate world. It's yours, so get to know it well!

Originally posted by jayhop
[B I just bought my first Campy record parts and the rear derialleur is completely torn apart and I haven't even used it yet. I know more about current record derialleurs than probably anyone in the area just because I took it apart. [/B]One thing I have lerned from bitter experience and wasted time is that is is much harder and sometimes virtally impossible to put many things back together so they work right.A moron can tear something apart, and tearing some things apart is totally pointless.

A moron can tear something apart, and tearing some things apart is totally pointless.

Don't start calling people names just because you don't approach things the way they do. If you're mechanically competent, taking apart just about anything on a bike should be pretty safe, especially if you have a lot of experience with a range of parts/bikes.

Originally posted by bugman


Don't start calling people names just because you don't approach things the way they do. If you're mechanically competent, taking apart just about anything on a bike should be pretty safe, especially if you have a lot of experience with a range of parts/bikes. Hey lighten up.I did not call YOU anything. Take an shimano STI shifter completely apart sometime and then report back.And, FWIW,my guess is I have forgotten more than you are likely to ever know.

I've torn things appart and not gotten them together right the first time and sometimes never gotten them back together at all. What a waste of time? How do you think I learned! And you can do the same! Free yourself from your bonds. You are able to do most anything you set your mind to. So what if you make a mistake. Your not at work and it's your bike. The stakes aren't high with the bike and you. So have fun!

Follow up to my original post: Thanks for all the pros and cons concerning taking apart a junker. I went to the Park Tools website, and they have a starter tool kit for bike repair. Does Park make high quality tools? If not, who does? I've learned from doing auto repairs that it doesn't pay to buy cheap tools!

Most of park stuff is good.But thers are items like cone wrenches and headset wrenches that are available in diffrent grades and prices.Better stuff is naturally better, and the low end cone wrenches are junk.

One should always work on a surface with no cracks in it,and no clutter for things to hide under....I won't ask how you know about this.

I found this out many, many years ago. My father still finds tiny ball-bearings on his garage floor to this day......

trmcgeehan, go for it.

You will never learn anything by doing nothing.

I appreciate JohnE's comments to plan to ride the bike as this will force you to reassemble and fine tune it to an acceptable level.

For what it's worth, I've taken many more things apart than I've ever gotten back together. Now for the exploded Campy Record der, I'm not quite that rich, brave, or curious.

I'll join the chorus of those telling you to just do it. I will say I agree with those who tell you to avoid the rusted junker as a practice bike. And make it a rider; riding helps you fine tune a bike. You can find old ten speeds in unrusted shape easily enough; try the local thrift stores. I've even found two bikes people were throwing out (a Peugeot and a Fuji), even though the bikes were in fine shape-- found new homes for both.
Taking apart strange things isn't that bad if you bother to equip yourself with a piece of paper and a pencil, which can be as important as any tool you buy (and the paper and pencil don't even have to be of the best quality!). Sketch out exploded views of anything you find at all intimidating. Your drawings just have to make sense to you; they don't need to be in the Louvre. I use this method whenever taking apart something new and have never had the slightest problem. It also helps to lay out the parts in the order you take them apart, on a cleaned work area. And take your time! If you're doing something for the first time, give yourself the entire afternoon. Patience is as important as anything else.
As for tools, do buy decent ones. I've always favoured Var; but what few Park tools I have seem of fine quality.

the only thing i have to add is that parts may be hard to find and tools aren't exactly cheap.

Luckily, most old bikes don't need parts. Once you service the hub, headset, and bb bearings, replace cables and housings, and clean and lube derailleurs, many old bikes will actually ride BETTER than they did when brand new. All the tools you need won't cost much more than $50. I buy Park for some critical pieces like freewheel removers and cone wrenches, but I have been perfectly happy with less expensive brands such as Lifu and Nashbar for chainwhips, crank removers, etc. As a home mechanic I just don't use certain tools enough to spend a bunch of money on them. I have found the Park "trail" wrenches, inexpensive double ended cone wrenches perfectly adequate for the 1 or 2 time a year I use them. For headsets I bought a Park combo wrench that is 32 mm headset on one end and 15 mm pedal wrench on the other. Any 15 mm wrench will work for pedals, including a 15 mm cone wrench for the ones with narrower flats even though Pokey considers me completely classless for even suggesing such heresy.

I have disassembled, reassembled, repaired and built several bike with my relatively inexpensive mix of tools.

Originally posted by RainmanP
Any 15 mm wrench will work for pedals, including a 15 mm cone wrench for the ones with narrower flats even though Pokey considers me completely classless for even suggesing such heresy.

HaHaHa. You are good rainman.But depending on pedals, a regular 15 mm open end is often too wide,but can be ground down. Really tight pedals can ruin a good cone wrench. I can always remove mine with a good cone wrench, and there are good and worthless ones. A cone wrench will leave you way short in dealing with pedals that have been installed by a gorilla using a 3' cheater bar. Same with steel axels rusted into a steel crank.Seen alot of junk bikes, and seen it all.A real pedal wrench is good to have.Mine is a park.Don't ruin a good cone wrench doing it the punk way.

Good catch, Pokey! I have to agree that a funky frozen pedal would be too much for a cone wrench.

Yes, by all means, get any kind of bike and take it apart. That is the best way to learn about anything...the "hand-on" approach. So the bike may not be up to current standards! It will certainly still be good enough to help you in your quest to become a bicycle mechanic...that and Zinn's book on bicycle repair: "Zinn and the Art of Bicycle Maintenance". Some members have listed the benefits of working on a "junker", i.e. derailler maintenance, but also you can learn to true a wheel without fear of ruining a good wheelset.