Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - My neck is killing me!

I have been recently riding my IRO Angus with track bars around NYC. I love the bike and I prefer riding fixed, but the drop down to the track backs combined with looking up at the road, I'm hurting after 5 miles. I am wondering how most of the folks here ride with track bars comfortably? I would like to hear any suggestions to eliminate neck pain without having to change my bars. Thanks!

raise your bars?

get bullhorns / risers / straight bars / brake hoods.

ride exclusively on the tops like 90% of the people here?

I have talked to a couple of riders here in the city, they were riding with
track bars, I was told to keep my arms & back straight and the body would
ajust after a bit. Does this sound right?

no thats not right... that makes your bones absorb all of the shock instead of your flexibilty.. your arms should def not be straight.

ride exclusively on the tops like 90% of the people here?

Track bars are either for riding on the track, or they are so your bike looks cool when you submit it to FGG, but they are the last thing you'd want for real road riding. Riding only on the tops negates the purpose of having drops in the first place..you'd be better off with flat bar.

A good set of road drops, with a horizontal or rising stem (depending on frame size), will work much better.

Yeah, I love the way the bars look & I plan to go have some fun at the Track, but I may have a second set off bars to enjoy the bike more on the street!

Yoga!

http://www.nobodysmiling.com/forum/upload/news%20pics/chopper-daband.jpg

Track bars are either for riding on the track, or they are so your bike looks cool when you submit it to FGG, but they are the last thing you'd want for real road riding. Riding only on the tops negates the purpose of having drops in the first place..you'd be better off with flat bar.

A good set of road drops, with a horizontal or rising stem (depending on frame size), will work much better.

i dunno, i use my track drops...then again, they're not b12-whatevers with a nitto jaguar stem, so that makes it easier.

i think they're nice. but i change bars a decent bit. variety is the spice of riding.

Yeah, I love the way the bars look & I plan to go have some fun at the Track, but I may have a second set off bars to enjoy the bike more on the street!
Do this. Get a pair of riser bars or bullhorns. Problem solved.

i dunno, i use my track drops...then again, they're not b12-whatevers with a nitto jaguar stem, so that makes it easier.

i think they're nice. but i change bars a decent bit. variety is the spice of riding.
http://velospace.org/files/velospace4.jpg
and you clearly have a taste for versatile comfortable bars too.


Track drops have one comfortable functional position... the drop. The tops are too narrow to give good control and riding on the shoulders involves contorting your wrists into a position that is unbearable for more then a mile or two and is asking for a repetitive stress injury anyway. Even the drop of a classic track drop is infereior to modern ergo drops since it involves controting the wrist.

Road drops with hoods have three positions.
1. the tops are wider and provide a more stable platform for low speed riding and climbing
2. the hoods allow for a comfortable normal position
3. the drops give a distinctly less comfortable but more aerodynamic position.

-If you want to say you get good enough control on the tops of track drops ok. But a wider position would give you better control and the flatness will provide better ergonomics.
-I you have convinced yourself you are comfortble riding on the shoulders thats fine too but I really doubt you stay there for more then a mile or two. There is no argueing with the ergonomics of the situation your wrist shouldn't be supporting weight in that position.
-If you are comfortble in the drops all day then I applaud you for being more flexible then professional road or track riders.

Track drops are designed for racing on the track. They are so single function that plenty of lower and mid level track racers don't even bother using them since they are unpleasant for training warmups, and cool downs and the classic ones don't even have an ergo drop position so they put more stress on the hand.

bullhorns with no drop in the stem, works for me.

wow dude, hate on his ride some more, jerk.

I've run road drops. I've run track drops. I recently threw bullhorns on. Couple points: the tops of track drops are not "too narrow to give good control." Good is such a ridiculously subjective term i can't believe you used it to make a point. Let me tell you, MOST people on here would have "good" control with near any bar.

It doesn't matter what kind of bar i use, i use multiple positions because no one position works for too long. This is true on your ergo road bars too. On track drops i would use the tops, shoulders, front of the bend, drops, and from time to time i'd even go inside the bend (sort of with my fists facing each other). All three of the bars i've used have had a variety of positions. Yeah i didn't like the aesthetic of the road drop, but i didn't feel that i sacrificed too much comfort or control in switching to the track drops.

OP, raise your stem up a bit. Should fix your worries.



and you clearly have a taste for versatile comfortable bars too.


Track drops have one comfortable functional position... the drop. The tops are too narrow to give good control and riding on the shoulders involves contorting your wrists into a position that is unbearable for more then a mile or two and is asking for a repetitive stress injury anyway. Even the drop of a classic track drop is infereior to modern ergo drops since it involves controting the wrist.

Road drops with hoods have three positions.
1. the tops are wider and provide a more stable platform for low speed riding and climbing
2. the hoods allow for a comfortable normal position
3. the drops give a distinctly less comfortable but more aerodynamic position.

-If you want to say you get good enough control on the tops of track drops ok. But a wider position would give you better control and the flatness will provide better ergonomics.
-I you have convinced yourself you are comfortble riding on the shoulders thats fine too but I really doubt you stay there for more then a mile or two. There is no argueing with the ergonomics of the situation your wrist shouldn't be supporting weight in that position.
-If you are comfortble in the drops all day then I applaud you for being more flexible then professional road or track riders.

Track drops are designed for racing on the track. They are so single function that plenty of lower and mid level track racers don't even bother using them since they are unpleasant for training warmups, and cool downs and the classic ones don't even have an ergo drop position so they put more stress on the hand.

ride no handed

to the OP and the velospace hater. i'm most comfortable in my drops and don't consider myself unusually flexible. if your drops are hurting you, or even if they're "distinctly less comfortable" perhaps you ought raise them. or try some other bars.

I find my Cinelli Criteriums which are sorta track styled road bars are much more comfortable than the B-123's I used to have while still looking pretty good. Also they are aluminum as is the Cinelli 2A stem I run them with. Although everyone seems to want steel stems and bars for stiffness, aluminum is actually a little more comfy (sort of the opposite of steel vs. aluminum frames). I also have a pair of flop and chops which I use on longer rides (Nitto 115's, like $20 new, flip and chop). Stems for both are basically zero rise. Since they are old school stem for threaded forks I just have a stem for each and can swap out the whole thing.

wow dude, hate on his ride some more, jerk..
My point is that set up is not versatile and most people wouldn't consider it comfortable. That's not hating on his ride but pointing out that his taste in bars is very different from what





I've run road drops. I've run track drops. I recently threw bullhorns on. Couple points: the tops of track drops are not "too narrow to give good control." Good is such a ridiculously subjective term i can't believe you used it to make a point. Let me tell you, MOST people on here would have "good" control with near any bar..

"-If you want to say you get good enough control on the tops of track drops ok. But a wider position would give you better control"
Can you read? You may consider it good enough but you simply have less control end of story. Also having your hands close constricts breathing and the slope is probably not as ergonomic.



It doesn't matter what kind of bar i use, i use multiple positions because no one position works for too long. This is true on your ergo road bars too. On track drops i would use the tops, shoulders, front of the bend, drops, and from time to time i'd even go inside the bend (sort of with my fists facing each other). All three of the bars i've used have had a variety of positions. Yeah i didn't like the aesthetic of the road drop, but i didn't feel that i sacrificed too much comfort or control in switching to the track drops.


Most riders ARE comfrotable on the brake hoods of ergo drops for miles at a time however. I'm sorry your not but that makes you the exception.

Yes you can contort your hand in to many different positions on classic track drops but none of them have good ergonomics. That is asking for a repetive stress injury. Yes some of you may not get one but there are also people who can type all day is horrible positions for years without getting one. Its still not a good idea to do.

I really don't care if you want to ride with track drops, bullhorns, or that hideous set up of humancongareel.(not hating but thats ugly. Possibly in an endearing way but ugly none the less.) However the OP was not comfortable with his drops all day, raising them up kinda defeats the purpose of having drops so clearly he needs more versatile bars. The most versatile bar is an ergo road drop.

Incidently I commute with bullhorns which are comfortable and fine a large portion of the time but suck in a head wind. Therefore they are far less versatile the road drops. If I had the money to get a modern pair of drops and some comfortable hoods to put on thier I would.

Say what you will about track drops and ride them if you want but I find it is likely that the track bike crowd is neither built distinctly differently nor more adept at handling then road racers. Road racers have almost all shifted to wider modern ergo drops becuase they are more comfortable, provide better control, and allow for more efficient riding. It is far more likely that style and the fact that most of them spend alot less time on the bike is the driving factory behind the widdespread use of track drops among these people. The OP already stated he was ready to give up style in favor of comfort so why use track drops.

It is far more likely that style and the fact that most of them spend alot less time on the bike is the driving factory behind the widdespread use of track drops among these people.

someone's figured out the conspiracy! meet me at the driving factory with some chloroform before he alerts the media.

haha, we're right here, you don't need to talk about us in the third person. and you can editorialize about our riding all you want, but if i'm not mistaken you're sitting in front of a computer just like we are ;)

"-If you want to say you get good enough control on the tops of track drops ok. But a wider position would give you better control"
Can you read? You may consider it good enough but you simply have less control end of story. Also having your hands close constricts breathing and the slope is probably not as ergonomic.



I, of course, can read. In fact, my reading abilities lead me to conclude that you still said "The tops are too narrow to give good control." Your above quote contradicts this statement. You may have changed your mind halfway through the post, but then you should delete the statement you don't mean.




The OP already stated he was ready to give up style in favor of comfort so why use track drops.

Also, my reading comprehension helped me to realize that the OP, and feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on reading comp here, does NOT want to change bars

I would like to hear any suggestions to eliminate neck pain without having to change my bars.

*edit*thus, switching to ergonomic road drops would not be an answer to OPs issue. instead it would be a solution if all else fails. All else is not necessarily going to fail.

Raising the drops, furthermore, would not necessarily defeat the purpose of drops. Rather, raising the drops to a point where being in the drops and being on the tops are both comfortable.

Also, perhaps the road fixie riders ride differently than "road racers" (like through traffic) and therefore have different demands on their equipment. just saying. I don't care what road racers do. I don't road race. I still love riding my bike but i'll take equipment and setup advice from those who ride in the city, and my own experiences and not from someone that doesn't ride in the same kind of traffic.

Track bars are either for riding on the track, or they are so your bike looks cool when you submit it to FGG, but they are the last thing you'd want for real road riding. Riding only on the tops negates the purpose of having drops in the first place..you'd be better off with flat bar.

A good set of road drops, with a horizontal or rising stem (depending on frame size), will work much better.

I didn't read past this, so I apologize if it's already been addressed.
But I'm calling bull**** on this.
Riding the drops is great for crushing up hills and the tops and shoulders are perfectly comfortable for normal riding.

Yes, already covered. Oh well.

Raising the drops, furthermore, would not necessarily defeat the purpose of drops. Rather, raising the drops to a point where being in the drops and being on the tops are both comfortable.

I guess I assumed he wanted to keep them for monetary reasons in which case a new stem is just as expensive as new bars so may not be the best answer. That assumption may indeed be false.

Good control may be a matter of choice but y'all(I was using the third person becaue plenty of posters don't ride on track drops but I'll switch if it makes you happy.) are probably not anywhere near as adept of bike handlers as the pro peloton yet you still usually see them with thier hands next to the stem only when areodynamics is key and handling isn't. While your control may be "good enough" for you to feel safe you still do not have "good" control when compared to normal bars nor would your level of control be considered "good enough" by most experience riders.

As far as why raising the drops the drops goes then:
If your drops are high enough to be comfortable then why would ride on the tops of the bars where you have less control, worse ergonomics, and your breathing is constricted? For pretty much everyone this position will not be as aerodynamic as a lower one would be and that defeats the purpose of drops for most riders. Which is to have a comfortable, stable, and efficient position on the hoods while still being able to have an aerodynamic position when it is needed and worth sacrificing comfort for. And the bonus position on the tops for spinning up hills.

Incidentally I define versatility not as the number of places you can fit your hands but the maximum utility of the combined hand positions. With that definition I can't think of any bar set up more versatile then ergo road drops with hoods except maybe for ergo road drops with hoods and clip on aero bars.

I didn't read past this, so I apologize if it's already been addressed.
But I'm calling bull**** on this.
Riding the drops is great for crushing up hills and the tops and shoulders are perfectly comfortable for normal riding.

Yes, already covered. Oh well.

-being more upright and forward on the hoods is better for "crushing up hills". Thats why MTBs have bar ends and roadies(even mashers) climb on the hoods.
-many reasons have been given why the shoulders/ tops of track drops are inferior to those of road drops.


Also Yes there is a possibility that fixed gear riders have different requirement then roadies. Its probably because most of them don't do many consecutive miles on the bike and idolize classic track styling so they are more able to sacrifice ergonomics and verstatility for conformation to stylistic ideals..

-being more upright and forward on the hoods is better for "crushing up hills". Thats why MTBs have bar ends and roadies(even mashers) climb on the hoods.
-many reasons have been given why the shoulders/ tops of track drops are inferior to those of road drops.


Also Yes there is a possibility that fixed gear riders have different requirement then roadies. Its probably because most of them don't do many consecutive miles on the bike and idolize classic track styling so they are more able to sacrifice ergonomics and verstatility for conformation to stylistic ideals..


Haha, you're speaking in such absolutes that I don't believe exist.
Is it impossible that being in the drops makes climbing hills easier for me? Because you can throw all the theoretical assumptions out there, but none of them negate the fact that when I'm riding, I get more power from my legs when in the drops, and that helps me power through hills.

Comfort is a personal thing and you trying to classify what is "good" and "bad" as far as comfort is concerned is completely asinine.

Haha, you're speaking in such absolutes that I don't believe exist.
Is it impossible that being in the drops makes climbing hills easier for me? Because you can throw all the theoretical assumptions out there, but none of them negate the fact that when I'm riding, I get more power from my legs when in the drops, and that helps me power through hills.

Comfort is a personal thing and you trying to classify what is "good" and "bad" as far as comfort is concerned is completely asinine.

Do you climb in the drops on bikes that have hoods? Are y'all just a wierd group of freaks with physiology completely different from the rest of the cycling world where being more upright/forward is the most efficenct way to climb.

Yes comfort is a personal thing I just find it much emore plausible that the use of track drops is a style issue that people have convinced themselves is comfortable rather then a case where a specific group of people who are in general more concerened about classic style then the average cyclist all have the same phsyiological abnomalities that make them more comfortable/efficient riding on outdated equipment then the rest of the cycling world.

Yes comfort is a personal thing I just find it much emore plausible that the use of track drops is a style issue that people have convinced themselves is comfortable rather then a case where a specific group of people who are in general more concerened about classic style then the average cyclist all have the same phsyiological abnomalities that make them more comfortable/efficient riding on outdated equipment then the rest of the cycling world.

Well, until you know for sure, you should probably stop talking out of your ass.

Well, until you know for sure, you should probably stop talking out of your ass.

does this mean you don't have much experience riding a bike with hoods and are just "talking out your ass" when you say the drops give you more power then the hoods or did you ignore my question for some other reason?

I can say with reasonable certainty that the track bike population is in general not disproportiate freaks who would have vastly different ergonomic needs then the rest of the cycling world.

Yesh. I dont think most people are powering around when they have the hands by the stem. I put my hands by the stem when I'm just cruising around and being lazy. the upright position is a nice little break, and because I'm going slower the less responsive handling is not an issue. I find the shoulders to be very comfortable, and where I spend 80% of my time. I'll be putting some grips up there in a few days just to make it even more so. I tilted my bars about 5% up from having the drops parallel w/ the ground just to make it more comfortable on my wrists. That set up has been treating me well since I dumped bullhorns late last year. I also found scooting my seat forward a little and raising my stem about 1/3 of an inch made a lot of difference.

I'm not saying track drops are good or bad. I am saying most people ride them to conform to a stylistic ideal. That is only good or bad depending on your own personal values. However let's call a spade a spade here. Track bars are stylish an elegant but not incredibly versatile and usually not comfortable.

does this mean you don't have much experience riding a bike with hoods and are just "talking out your ass" when you say the drops give you more power then the hoods or did you ignore my question for some other reason?

I can say with reasonable certainty that the track bike population is in general not disproportiate freaks who would have vastly different ergonomic needs then the rest of the cycling world.

Why bother splitting the cycling community into track vs. road. Why not look at everyone individually and let he or she be the one who decides what is comfortable for him/herself. Lumping people into catagories and prescribing them a set of characteristics and preferences is pointless.

And to answer your question, which I ignored because your 2nd statement was more interesting to me, I don't have any experience riding bars with hoods but I assume that it's similar to riding a bike with bullhorns. And of the two, I find the drops of track bars more comfortable.

One common cause of neck pain is when you are leaning forward too much. This could be a case of your frame being too big or the stem being too long. A simple way to see if this is the case; next time you ride, position yourself towards the front of your saddle. Pain, no pain or less pain will give you more insight on what to do next..

back when i was riding my road drops, visibility while on the drops was sort of an issue in traffic. i got used to rolling my eyes up to see before moving my head back, but it still didn't provide the same level of peripheral vision. eventually i just shifted to riding the tops and the hoods most of the time, and reserving the drops for headwinds, rain, and sprinting.

Why bother splitting the cycling community into track vs. road. Why not look at everyone individually and let he or she be the one who decides what is comfortable for him/herself.

Note this is not track vs road but rather the people who ride fixies on the road It is reasonable to look at them as a group because they are the only group of which a significant portion will assert that hoodless track drops are versatile and comfortable.

I'm not saying track drops are good or bad.

you are, most unequivocally, saying that they are bad. which is fine, but you really should own up to it.


However let's call a spade a spade here.

yes, lets.


I am saying most people ride them to conform to a stylistic ideal.

rather than saying, perhaps you ought try asking. you clearly have some predisposed notions about bars and more generally about people who ride track bikes. if you want to assert your superiority, go enter a race. if you want to know why people prefer the components they do, use your indoor voice. and go raise your bars.

Note this is not track vs road but rather the people who ride fixies on the road It is reasonable to look at them as a group because they are the only group of which a significant portion will assert that hoodless track drops are versatile and comfortable.

I don't think it's reasonable in the slightest to make general assumptions about a group of people. It's indicative of ignorance and/or laziness.

I find hoodless track drops both verasatile and comfortable, and I have not forced myself to think so just for the sake of fashion. Others on here might find them uncomfortable. Hell, some on here very well may have forced themselves into a state of mind for fashion. The point is, every single rider has a difference preference and a different reason for doing something and you need to stop making generalizations because, as I said, they're indicative of ignorance and/or laziness.

you are, most unequivocally, saying that they are bad. which is fine, but you really should own up to it.

no good and bad are based on values. I am saying they are less versatile which according to my value system means they are not as good for anything but track racing. However I accept that other peoples value systems are different and therefore they may be better.



rather than saying, perhaps you ought try asking. you clearly have some predisposed notions about bars and more generally about people who ride track bikes. if you want to assert your superiority, go enter a race. if you want to know why people prefer the components they do, use your indoor voice. and go raise your bars.

The problem with asking is that people often do not know the real reason why they do things.

If people claim they are more comfortable on hoodless track drops it may be that they are. However bars have evolved away from that style over the past 3 decades. The vast majority of the cycling population find these newer bars more comfortable and versatile. That means that either the people in this forum are generally physiological freaks OR their stated reason is not the real underlying reason.

I think that this latter explanation is much more plausible. Especially when it is espoused by people who don't really have experience riding anything else.

I am curious what sean zero mpg and others who spend alot of time on road bikes have to say about this. Especially people who have lots of experience on nice road bikes that predates their experience riding around on track drops.

Those of you who fit this criterea please chime in.

I'd argue that the vast majority of the cycling population does not have much experience with hoodless track drops. I'd take it a step further to say those of the "street fixed gear" community have more experience with road drops/bullhorns/mustache/risers etc... than roadies do with hoodless track drops.

I'd argue that the vast majority of the cycling population does not have much experience with hoodless track drops. I'd take it a step further to say those of the "street fixed gear" community have more experience with road drops/bullhorns/mustache/risers etc... than roadies do with hoodless track drops.

but they have steadily moved away from classic 70's road drops that where much more similiar to them as well as repositioned and designed the brake hoods to make them less and less like riding on the shoulders of track drops.

What?

this thread is cracking me up. it's just like debates in "road cycling" about various bits and pieces of CF bling --

basically, i wonder why do people feel the need to justify their aesthetic decisions by claiming that they serve some higher purpose? aesthetics is a good enough reason on its own to justify just about any bike-related purchase or equipment choice. period.

aesthetics can also make your neck and bank account hurt.

this doesn't need to turn into an argument about bar choice.

some people find track bars acceptable for street riding. others find them uncomfortable and limiting. both have good reasons. if you fall into the latter, you might want to consider other bars. if you fall into the former, then, all right.

The problem with asking is that people often do not know the real reason why they do things.
Best line in this thread. I tell people why they like stuff all time. How would they know if I didn't tell them?

basically, i wonder why do people feel the need to justify their aesthetic decisions by claiming that they serve some higher purpose?

Because they do not want to be mistaken for "hipsters"?

But we are all cyclists... even those of us who have been graced with an aesthetic sense big enough to match our huge calves.

This argument is less irrelevant with a quill stem. Neck hurts on long ride?...pullout you multitool and raise your stem. Turn into a strong headwind?..lower your stem.

Moving to the threadless headset was a huge unfortunate setback for cycling in general.

The problem with asking is that people often do not know the real reason why they do things.

If people claim they are more comfortable on hoodless track drops it may be that they are. However bars have evolved away from that style over the past 3 decades. The vast majority of the cycling population find these newer bars more comfortable and versatile. That means that either the people in this forum are generally physiological freaks OR their stated reason is not the real underlying reason.

Or it could be that the "vast majority of the cycling population" whose requirements drive the changes in road bar design don't spend an awful lot of time riding single speed / fixed gear bicycles in city traffic. Just saying.

Or it could be that the "vast majority of the cycling population" whose requirements drive the changes in road bar design don't spend an awful lot of time riding single speed / fixed gear bicycles in city traffic. Just saying.


So why would track drops be best for city traffic?
The top flat part is much narrower so they handle worse yet they allow no more clearence then road drops. The drops are either low and make it hard(see title of thread) to look up and see whats going on around you or are so high they don't provide an aero position for the vicious winds that whip through the canyons of the urban landscape.

Why would they be better for single speed/fixed riding?
SS/FG MTBrs use wider bars and keep them higher and are possibly more likely to use bar ends then most other xc riders since they are willing to sacrifice clearance(yes clearence is a big issue in xc riding) for the added leverage they are able to get when really cranking on the pedals in their only gear. Track drops on the other hand allow only one hand position that allows a really firm grip on the bars and any reasonable amount of leverage. Width aside, since maybe clearance is a bigger issue in the cites, the drops are illsuited to apply the extra force ss/fixed gear riding requires since the height of them prevents using your back/shoulder muscles as much as you could with higher bars.

So unless you care to refute any of these points or come up with some specific reasons for your statement I think it is safe to say the the only reason track drops are popular with urban riders is because they fit a particular aesthetic that happens to be popular in urban areas. In fact it seems functionally it seems track drops are even worse for city riding then other applications.(except maybe for the short length of many urban riders trips.

Once again there is nothing wrong with doing things for aesthetic reasons but lets not lie to ourselves and noobs coming for advice. I am willing to admit that I switched a seatpost from my track bike to my road bike purely for aesthetic reasons.

Also how realistic is it to suggest adjusting stem height whenever you round a corner? I have never seen anyone do that and it doesn't seem very practical.

Narrow bars make it easier to squeeze through traffic, and the graceful curve makes the shoulders a really good medium between being on the tops and being down in the drops without sacraficing much handling sensitivity. That and, as you mentioned, they are purty.

Narrow bars make it easier to squeeze through traffic, and the graceful curve makes the shoulders a really good medium between being on the tops and being down in the drops without sacraficing much handling sensitivity. That and, as you mentioned, they are purty.

being on brake hoods would give you even better handling since
-Your hands are further out without increasing the clearance of the bar
-You have a better grip then you would on the shoulders
-Usually they are in the exact right fore/aft position to provide the best handling.
-They are more ergonomic so you can stay in the position that gives you the best handling longer.

You can get narrow road drops too They will give you the same clearence as the track drops but you will be able to position your hands further out and so have better leverage too.

- being further out would cause me to be too stretched out, bringing back the neck pain that the OP was talking about when looking forwards. I'm thinking about getting a shorter stem because I find myself way forward on my seat all the time, and my seat is already as far forward as it will go to give me a little more power in acceleration.
- I have grips on the shoulders specifically for comfort and erm... grip.
- I tilt my bars up a tad to make them more comfortable on my wrists.
- track bikes are designed to give the best handinling in the drops, end of story. If I wanted to be further out I wouldn't be riding frames with compact geometry :) damn things twitchy enough as is.