Road Bike Racing - Who will win RAAM 2006 begins 6/11

Your thoughts on who will win RAAM? First overall in both the Traditional and Enduro divisions.

Don't know any riders doing the traditional, but it's gonna be quite the race between Robic, Tinker Juarez, and Kenny Souza. I'd have to say Robic. Anyone read the NY Times article on him? Crazy, crazy man.

and anyone cares?

For solo category:

Slovenian soilder Jure Robic... won last years with an average of 13.58 mph INCLUDING ALL STOPS!

took him 9 days 8 hours and 48 minutes

and anyone cares?

Yes, if you don't, please visit another thread.

I don't know who will win ... but I've got several friends in the team division who are planning to ride it!! :)

2003 winner Allen Larsen the last man to beat Jure Robic was forced to withdraw. He just set a new north/south record in the state of Washington but has sucumb to the dreaded Shermer's neck and has been forced to withdraw from RAAM

Go Tinker :D

Robic wins (again).

I have my doubts but it's the only name that I know...
...finishing an incredible 20ish times...
...also an amazing land surveyor...
...Rob Kish!...

Robic wins (again).

I could go coast-to-coast faster than him. 'Course I'd have to use the Concord to do it. :eek:

Robic will be tough to beat, again. But could Tinker, a rookie, but a guy who, like Robic, spends his life riding his bike win it this year? Wouldn't be surprised. Can Boyer win again, about 20 years after he won it? Wouldn''t be surprised. I think the conpetition in the Enduro division should be really excellent this year.

In the Traditional division, I like Haase's odds. It's his third RAAM, and his improvement between No. 1 and No. 2 was excellent.

I know, and have raced against, several riders in both solo divisions. Just when I think I've sworn off doing RAAM for good, I get amped about it again thinking about these guys heading to the starting line!

As for merlin/raleigh/bmx whoever you are: The ultracycling community is very supportive and very friendly; I'm sure this is why you're not a part of it. It's also very small; everyone knows everyone else. No room for the jackasses, unlike the 20,000 or so primadonnas with their USCF Cat. 5 licenses. :rolleyes:

I called the local LBS today and asked for Dave and they informed me that Mr. Haase to a look at the weather that was coming this past week in WI and hopped a plane for CA to ride stages 1-4 so he could get aclimated to the heat. We've only had two days over 70 all spring. In the upper 40's and raining here again right now. Looks like he made a good decision.

The wx is terrible here in Ohio, too.

Check out the news of Robic's and Baloh's record-breaking 606.74-mile 24-hour ride recently: http://lists.topica.com/lists/ultracycling/read/message.html?mid=812104758&sort=d&start=8398. That dude is just a stud, plain and simple.

The math works out to be 25.3mph for 24 hours, and that includes all his time off the bike (which is probably zero, but still!). These guys aren't just sleep deprivation lab experiments. They're fast as hell when they're fully awake, too.

"Robic holds the UMCA's non-drafting 24-hour road record: 521.975 miles"

That is friggin' insane....average speed of 21.7 mph for a day straight.

Sorta reminds me of a runner by the name of Dean Karnazes out in California. Dude ran 100 miles to the start of a marathon and then clicked off like a 3 hour marathon. His goal is to someday run 300 miles in one shot.....I believe he's done 237 miles or something nuts.

http://www.ultramarathonman.com/

who'll win? the question should be: who cares? :)

How much do these guys train? I can only imagine.

How much do these guys train? I can only imagine.

A lot

Good article on Haase below. This guy commonly hits the road at 1-2am and rides until 8-8:30. Home to the shower and then off to work where he stands on his feet all day building, repairing and selling bikes until the store closes at 8pm. He's got a 10 mile circuit east of town with one climb of 1.2 mi and a few other daggers and often does 6-8 laps at a crack.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=414431

How much do these guys train? I can only imagine.

at the risk of sounding repetitive - who cares? :)

Robic will win. He cares to train and pushes himself like no other for this type of event.

Corsaire

Robic is the veteran, the favorite, and is at the top of his game. Tinker is an amazing rider but this will be his first effort. He was also beaten by Sousa at the Furnace Creek 508 which surprised some of us.

I would love to see how long someone in the Pro Tour would last in RAAM. I'd give 'em 2 days, maybe 3.

i'm rooting for TINKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for merlin/raleigh/bmx whoever you are: The ultracycling community is very supportive and very friendly; I'm sure this is why you're not a part of it. It's also very small; everyone knows everyone else. No room for the jackasses, unlike the 20,000 or so primadonnas with their USCF Cat. 5 licenses. :rolleyes:

Well, I'm glad you guys enjoy this. To each his own. For me, compared to bike racing, RAAM is incredibly boring. Doesn't mean the people that do it aren't exceptionally fit, and that it's not an amazing accomplishment. But compared to a bike race, it's boring. Judging by media coverage, It appears the vast majority of people agree with me. And I can see how warm and welcoming it is from your comments.

I would love to see how long someone in the Pro Tour would last in RAAM. I'd give 'em 2 days, maybe 3. anyone that's completed the TDF, that would be willing to adapt their training for 6 months, and is willing to suffer the sleep deprivation would do fine in RAAM.

Conversely, the average RAAM competitor would be dropped and finish outside the time limits in a TDF stage.

at the risk of sounding repetitive - who cares? :)
Rob Lucas will win! :D

anyone that's completed the TDF, that would be willing to adapt their training for 6 months, and is willing to suffer the sleep deprivation would do fine in RAAM.

Conversely, the average RAAM competitor would be dropped and finish outside the time limits in a TDF stage.
As a matter of fact Jonnathan Boyer who placed as high as 12th in the TDF won ram in the 80's (I think 85?) and is entered to race it again this year at 51. Should be interesting. It's a good read on cycling history too because Boyer came into RAAM all cockey and was surprised to have only won it by two hours.

It's really comparing apples and oranges though.

I'm still not clear on the Enduro vs Traditional thing, I mean all the big names seem to be in the Enduro div. And where is Kish? Did he retire from it?

I'm still not clear on the Enduro vs Traditional thing, I mean all the big names seem to be in the Enduro div. And where is Kish? Did he retire from it?

Enduro has manditory stations that you must stop at. It also has a 20 hr per day limit on the bike. Traditional you ride and break when you want. Some will only average 2-3 hrs of sleep a day but there speed while on the bike maybe lower too dur to lack of rest.

How much do these guys train? I can only imagine.


The members of the team I know who are, to my knowledge, still planning to ride the RAAM, haven't been training much at all. After all, in a 4-person team, each rider only rides about 1300 kms which is approx. the distance of a randonnee. And Randonneurs are recommended to have ridden only about 5000 kms in the 6 months or so before a randonnee.

Solo RAAM riders would be doing a bit more riding.

As a matter of fact Jonnathan Boyer who placed as high as 12th in the TDF won ram in the 80's (I think 85?) and is entered to race it again this year at 51. Should be interesting. It's a good read on cycling history too because Boyer came into RAAM all cockey and was surprised to have only won it by two hours.

I didn't know there was a Pedophile Pedaling program in California State Prisons :)

I didn't know there was a Pedophile Pedaling program in California State Prisons :)
Yes that is very disturbing and when I was a kid I really looked up to Jacques too :(

Well, I'm glad you guys enjoy this. To each his own. For me, compared to bike racing, RAAM is incredibly boring. Doesn't mean the people that do it aren't exceptionally fit, and that it's not an amazing accomplishment. But compared to a bike race, it's boring. Judging by media coverage, It appears the vast majority of people agree with me. And I can see how warm and welcoming it is from your comments.

By bike racing do you mean Mnt bike, downhill, TT, RR, BMX, Track, Pursuit, Crit or something else? As for media coverage we all know only the TDF gets coverage. As said before, if you guys dont like RAAM, dont post in a RAAM thread.

As for the riders, I will agree with that the 4 person team could be raced by virtually any mix of pro team riders. We have two local guys that have put together teams over the years and hold the 4 man team record for the last 10 years between them.

All of the solo riders I know and have ridden with have a similiar trait...I like to say they held their breath too long when they were kids, just a little out there. But make no mistake, these are serious riders who have specialized in their field and can put in serious miles hour after hour. Their skills are no less impressive then any other specialized rider regardless of the format of the bike race they are entered.

I'm rootin' for Tinker!

By bike racing do you mean Mnt bike, downhill, TT, RR, BMX, Track, Pursuit, Crit or something else? As for media coverage we all know only the TDF gets coverage. As said before, if you guys dont like RAAM, dont post in a RAAM thread.

As for the riders, I will agree with that the 4 person team could be raced by virtually any mix of pro team riders. We have two local guys that have put together teams over the years and hold the 4 man team record for the last 10 years between them.

All of the solo riders I know and have ridden with have a similiar trait...I like to say they held their breath too long when they were kids, just a little out there. But make no mistake, these are serious riders who have specialized in their field and can put in serious miles hour after hour. Their skills are no less impressive then any other specialized rider regardless of the format of the bike race they are entered.

I'm rootin' for Tinker!

I'd like to answer your question, but by your rule, I can't post in this thread.

For those who may not have seen it, Tinker had a hell of a ride down at the Heart of the South earlier this season: http://www.ultracycling.com/results/hos2006.html. I think he's going to make things very interesting this year!

As plenty of other folks have been pointing out, ultra-distance races are just another way to have fun on the bike. Some like it. Some don't. Some think it's interesting to follow; some don't. But to say that someone trained in one discipline can just show up, with some minimal training, and rule the roost in another discipline, seems a bit silly and uninformed. Those kinds of statements belittle both disciplines involved.

I don't care who wins. I just hope no rider dies. John Howard rode in one of the early RAAM's. He later said that RAAM has nothing to do with bike racing. It is simply an experient in sleep deprivation. Who ever can go the longest without sleep wins. Someone who falls asleep may get injured, or get killed.

I'd like to see a version of RAAM that was truly a bike race, and NOT an sleep deprivation experiment. One way to do that would be to start the race at six a.m. on Day One. The riders race until six p.m. At that time, who ever has gone the most miles is the winner of Day One. Each rider gets credit for the number of miles he has completed by 6 p.m.

On Day Two, at 6 a.m., all of the riders begin racing from the point that the Day One winner reached. On Day Three, all of the riders begin at the point that the Day Two winner reached.

Under that plan, the riders would be able to rest every night. And, spectators would be able to see all of the riders together each day, at least at the starting line. And, on some days, there might even been some riders still in the front group, riding neck and neck to be first at the six p.m. deadline.

To keep it an "individual" race, no teams would be allowed. Riders would have to keep at least twenty feet away from another bike, except when passing, so they could get no help from having a rider in front of them.

My RAAM would pay the winner of each day's stage a significant amount of money. And, of course, big money for the final winner, based on the greatest number of miles completed in all stages. My RAAM would have a shot at attracting some of the best riders in the world. A guy like Basso might be interested in a RAAM scheduled in October that might lead to winning a million dollars (for a guy who wins most of the daily stages, and is first at the end).

The "daily winner" concept might lead to coverage on the TV news each day. A Saturday TV special on each of the weeks prior stages, plus "live" coverage of the finish on Saturday might draw large numbers of viewers. A RAAM that is truly a bike race might give the USA a race that becomes as important and as well known as the Giro, or the Tour de France.

Enduro will be interesting to watch, Robic is a machine on the bike. I worked TS1 in 2004, did the parade lap, rode home, then drove up to TS1 as it was going to take them a couple hours to get there. We were there less than maybe 30 minutes and here comes Robic, next rider was pretty far back already. When he kept that pace going, I was amazed. I think Enduro will boil down to Kenny, Robic, and Tinker.

As for traditional, I'm betting on Jim Kern, anyone that can go 516.5 miles in under 24 hours has to be considered a threat. He's raced RAAM as part of a 4 man team taking 1st overall for teams in 2004, and as crew chief last year for ALS/Bacchetta they took 1st in class and 3rd overall. He also set a new record for this years Davis 24 hour challenge which had climbing at 449 miles. RAAM is not just about the rider, it's about an organized crew, and planning. He's an experienced RAAM rider with an experienced crew.

Kern's crew at Sebring this year was out of this world. Talk about a machine! They were set up just down the pit row from us at night and it was amazing to watch them work!

I rode today with a guy who reported that Mark Metcalf (Traditional) will be a DNS because he just crashed on a training ride, being taken out by a loose dog. Apparently he's pretty bad off -- hip surgery. Just found this: http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/files/raam2006/newsarchive/markmetcalfe.htm on the web. Ugh. :(

I'd like to see a version of RAAM that was truly a bike race, and NOT an sleep deprivation experiment. One way to do that would be to start the race at six a.m. on Day One. The riders race until six p.m. At that time, who ever has gone the most miles is the winner of Day One. Each rider gets credit for the number of miles he has completed by 6 p.m.

On Day Two, at 6 a.m., all of the riders begin racing from the point that the Day One winner reached. On Day Three, all of the riders begin at the point that the Day Two winner reached.


Kinda impractical. What if one rider finishes at 6pm in the middle of Kansas, hundreds of miles away from any sort of civilization? Does he get driven to the nearest hotel? Doesn't make any sense...

PS: Your idea of RAAM sounds more like a grand tour to me ...

As for traditional, I'm betting on Jim Kern, anyone that can go 516.5 miles in under 24 hours has to be considered a threat.

Whaaa!?! that's crazy! That's an average of almost 22mph IF HE WENT FOR 24 HOURS STRAIGHT, WITHOUT STOPS! I can't even do a century at that speed without at least a paceline.

For those who may not have seen it, Tinker had a hell of a ride down at the Heart of the South earlier this season: http://www.ultracycling.com/results/hos2006.html. I think he's going to make things very interesting this year!

As plenty of other folks have been pointing out, ultra-distance races are just another way to have fun on the bike. Some like it. Some don't. Some think it's interesting to follow; some don't. But to say that someone trained in one discipline can just show up, with some minimal training, and rule the roost in another discipline, seems a bit silly and uninformed. Those kinds of statements belittle both disciplines involved.

Back in the 1980s Johnathan Boyer, a normal type pro racer, entered and won. He is back in this year in Tinkers catagory. Should be interesting.

Back in the 1980s Johnathan Boyer, a normal type pro racer, entered and won. He is back in this year in Tinkers catagory. Should be interesting.

Anyone that can do the Muholland Challenge (http://www.planetultra.com/MulChallenge/index.htm) all in his 53 chainring has got my respect.

[QUOTE=alanbikehouston]I don't care who wins. I just hope no rider dies. John Howard rode in one of the early RAAM's. He later said that RAAM has nothing to do with bike racing. It is simply an experient in sleep deprivation. Who ever can go the longest without sleep wins. Someone who falls asleep may get injured, or get killed.



I'd like to see a version of RAAM that was truly a bike race, and NOT an sleep deprivation experiment.


John Howard was in the very first RAAM (GABR) and his comments are in the sour grapes - sore loser class.

Any signs of sleeplessness on the bike and officials force the rider off the bike for a minimum of 3 hours. If they are still groggy, another three hours and so on.

EDIT: The new Enduro division with a mandatory, monitored 40 hours off the bike may be a response to the fatality last year. The rider, Breedlove, had acted sleepy as he swerved into an oncoming vehicle. It will not be the first time RAAM changed because of accidents. A Canadian riding alone, at night, in the 1980s was crippled when possibly deliberately hit by a yellow car in Texas. The response by Texas authorities may be why RAAM does not go through Texas very often.

Whaaa!?! that's crazy! That's an average of almost 22mph IF HE WENT FOR 24 HOURS STRAIGHT, WITHOUT STOPS! I can't even do a century at that speed without at least a paceline.

You must not ride a recumbent. It's all about aerodynamics and power. He was on a Bacchetta Aero recumbent. And yes, that was about his average speed. 80% of your energy is spent overcoming wind drag, so if you can make yourself more Aero, you'll go faster for the same output.

http://www.ultracycling.com/results/sebring2006.html <- UMCA event report with results. Robic has done like 518 or 522, which I think is the overall record. I can't see holding a TT position for that long though. Gotta be painful.

http://www.ultracycling.com/results/davis2006.html <- Here's the Davis 24 results which isn't a RAAM qualifier, but had RAAM racers in it, including Kenny Souza, Jim Kern, and Tim Woudenberg.

Mark

You must not ride a recumbent. It's all about aerodynamics and power. He was on a Bacchetta Aero recumbent. And yes, that was about his average speed. 80% of your energy is spent overcoming wind drag, so if you can make yourself more Aero, you'll go faster for the same output.

http://www.ultracycling.com/results/sebring2006.html <- UMCA event report with results. Robic has done like 518 or 522, which I think is the overall record. I can't see holding a TT position for that long though. Gotta be painful.

http://www.ultracycling.com/results/davis2006.html <- Here's the Davis 24 results which isn't a RAAM qualifier, but had RAAM racers in it, including Kenny Souza, Jim Kern, and Tim Woudenberg.

Mark

You failed to mention that one tidbit of info. That explains it. Still pretty super-human, but more explainably so.

Well, it is a bicycle.

bicycle - A vehicle consisting of a light frame mounted on two wire-spoked wheels one behind the other and having a seat, handlebars for steering, brakes, and two pedals or a small motor by which it is driven.

I saw a 2-3 mph speed improvment moving to a Bacchetta. The Bacchetta guys regularly knock out sub 4 hour centuries. They will be at the Hotter Than Hell Century in the middle of Texas, which is fairly flat, they did it in 3:56 last year. I'm thinking of going this year just so I can try and suck a wheel for 4 hours. :) Funny thing is that the organizers do a road race at the same time, they started the race 20 minutes ahead of the fun ride. By mile 60 the Bacchetta guys had caught and passed the race. Great bike, and after doing a 200k brevet and a double century on one, there's no way you'll get me back on a Diamond Frame for any sort of distance riding.

Look at all the RAAM guys with neck issues. Larsen had to have a board strapped to his back and head to hold his head up. Other riders have had issues too. There's some rumours of trying to get Larsen on a high performance recumbent, so who knows, he may be back.

Again, watching the distances that Jim does, I'm betting he does very well in RAAM.

Enduro and Traditional Solo Classes start today (Sunday). You can follow it at www.raceacrossamerica.org

First time station results so far.
http://stats.raceacrossamerica.org/2006/reports/overview.html

I just realized the main race this year is the Solo Enduro, which requires an average of 4 hours per day of stopping (40 hours over 10 days).

This is the race that Robic and Baloh are in. There is a tranditional solo as well (no required stops), but it's not as competitive.

I also see that Jacques (Jonathan) Boyer is in this race. He's using a different strategy. He's riding faster than Robic and Baloh, but he's using up his mandatory rest time. Since Robic and Baloh are not resting as much, they are postponing their mandatory stop. Maybe they're planning on an 8-12 hour sleep after 3 days? It will be interesting to see which strategy works best, but my money is on Boyer.

As of this writing Robic and Baloh have used only 1:47 and :30 of their rest time respectively, while Boyer has already used 5.5 hours. Despite Robic's taking more rest time, those two guys are neck and neck (Robic arrived at station 11 3 minutes ahead of Baloh). However, Boyer was only 2:23 behind at station 10, even though he has used up all that extra sleep time.

By the way, Boyer was the first American to ever ride in the Tour de France, and won the RAAM back in 1985, calling it the stupidest thing he'd ever done in his life. I guess with the mandatory sleep this year, he decided it wasn't quite so stupid any more?

Anyway, Jacques Boyer will win. You heard it here first.