Bicycle Mechanics - What's the easiest way to put on a new chain?

My old chain has 3,000+ miles on it, and has stretched over 1/8". So I bought a new Sram chain with the quick release gizmo. I saw how to change chains quickly and easily on Sheldon Brown's webpage, but I don't see it there any more. Are there any tricks I should know? Should I keep the old chain for a back-up? One thing I thought I should do is take the old chain off and line it up side by side with the new chain to make sure the new chain has the same number of links. If the new chain is longer, I should remove some links from the new chain before installing it. Is this good thinking? Thanks in advance for your valued input.

Use the old chain as a guide for length, but recognize it will be ~1/2" too long (because of the wear). You may also want to wrap it around the large-large gear combo (before removing the extra links) to make sure that length is right.

If the old one had the correct number of links, use that as a guide. See parktools website for some good chain advice.
You should be able to practice with the SRAM master link off the bike. You should be able to see how the link is locked by pulling and released by pushing the two parts together. Put the link at the bottom of the chain loop and rest the chain on the bottom bracket rather than a chainring to give you plenty of slack.

Originally posted by roadbuzz
Use the old chain as a guide for length, but recognize it will be ~1/2" too long (because of the wear). You may also want to wrap it around the large-large gear combo (before removing the extra links) to make sure that length is right. You count the number of links in the old one.

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
My old chain has 3,000+ miles on it, and has stretched over 1/8". So I bought a new Sram chain with the quick release gizmo. I saw how to change chains quickly and easily on Sheldon Brown's webpage, but I don't see it there any more. Are there any tricks I should know? Should I keep the old chain for a back-up? One thing I thought I should do is take the old chain off and line it up side by side with the new chain to make sure the new chain has the same number of links. If the new chain is longer, I should remove some links from the new chain before installing it. Is this good thinking? Thanks in advance for your valued input. With that much chain stretch you probably ought to save your self some greif and get a new cassette too, as it is likely trashed.Chain should be changed at 1/16" stretch.Toss the old chain.The new chain will be longer and will have to have links removed.Unless your setup is really strange.

My old chain has 3,000+ miles on it, and has stretched over 1/8".

Better check to make sure the cogs aren't worn out, as well.



Are there any tricks I should know?

Yes. Bend the chain @ right angles either side of the link (hold chain tightly in fist), then, using a pair of long-nosed pliers, gently squeeze the opposite corners of the link. Comes aparts very easily.


Should I keep the old chain for a back-up?

NO!!!! That chain is so far gone, it is damaging the cogs!



If the new chain is longer, I should remove some links from the new chain before installing it.

Well, yeah. That's why we have chain tools. Unless, of course, some bonehead put an overlength chain on it to begin with.

Quick rule for sizing chains:

Put the chain on the big, through the big ring and big cog. Figure out which link is the shotest that will fit. Add 1 link from that.

Originally posted by D*Alex







Yes. Bend the chain @ right angles either side of the link (hold chain tightly in fist), then, using a pair of long-nosed pliers, gently squeeze the opposite corners of the link. Comes aparts very easily.



[B[/I] Well, this is totally bogus, and will cause someone to have a very bad day when their chain comes apart due to a damaged link.NO TOOLS ON A SRAM LINK!! Press the sides of the link together,with FINGERS, to release it and at the same time squeeze the ends with FINGERS! The first time it may seem like you need 3 hands or a helper, but once you understand it, it's a no brainer.WITHOUT TOOLS!!! And, they do come with instructions. Reading which seems to be a lost art.

Originally posted by roadbuzz
recognize it will be ~1/2" too long
Yeah, that was pretty sloppy advice. :o


Originally posted by pokey
You count the number of links in the old one.
An alternative way to accomplish the same thing... lay old and new side by side and match the number of links visually, adjusting the worn chain to keep them lined up.

BTW, make keyrings, fashion accessories, or throw the old chain away. Just keep it the h#ll away from your bike.

Originally posted by roadbuzz

Yeah, that was pretty sloppy advice. :o


An alternative way to accomplish the same thing... lay old and new side by side and match the number of links visually, adjusting the worn chain to keep them lined up. Yeah,but it makes such a mess on the carpet.

A decent LBS will put it on free when you buy the chain from them.

This is why you should "support your Local Bike Shop" and pay a few bucks more from time to time.

I kept a rolling talley this year and my LBS gave me better than two hours labor free and said " pay me next time when you buy something" to over $20 in cash ($2 & $3 bucks at a time). That is why I gave Mark LeMieux of T-Town Bikes in Tulsa, OK. a bottle of good wine at Christmas.

Originally posted by 1oldRoadie
A decent LBS will put it on free when you buy the chain from them.

This is why you should "support your Local Bike Shop" and pay a few bucks more from time to time.

I kept a rolling talley this year and my LBS gave me better than two hours labor free and said " pay me next time when you buy something" to over $20 in cash ($2 & $3 bucks at a time). That is why I gave Mark LeMieux of T-Town Bikes in Tulsa, OK. a bottle of good wine at Christmas. Sure, but what if the LBS is 50 miles away,chain was bought mailorder and all one has is a bottle of cheap whiskey? What to do:drink the whiskey and try not to screw up too bad?;)

Originally posted by pokey
Sure, but what if the LBS is 50 miles away,chain was bought mailorder and all one has is a bottle of cheap whiskey? What to do:drink the whiskey and try not to screw up too bad?;)

Damned I hate it when your right!

NO TOOLS ON A SRAM LINK!!

Well, thank you for for that little bit of absolutism, Mr. perfect. Around here, just regular road grime is enough to make the SRAM link all but impossible to remove by fingers. Of course, the key words I used were gently squeeze, but obviously, you didn't notice that.
I suppose that 3 hands might be helpful in breaking a chain, but alas, most people only have 2. Perhaps your family is inbred enough to have developed a third hand?
:eek:

Originally posted by D*Alex


Well, thank you for for that little bit of absolutism, Mr. perfect. Around here, just regular road grime is enough to make the SRAM link all but impossible to remove by fingers. Of course, the key words I used were gently squeeze, but obviously, you didn't notice that.
I suppose that 3 hands might be helpful in breaking a chain, but alas, most people only have 2. Perhaps your family is inbred enough to have developed a third hand?
:eek: A shot of wd- 40 will get rid of the grime.Like I sed it only feels like you need the third hand the first time.After that it's a no brainer...should be easy enough.

As a follow-up to my original post, I see a lot of you are suggesting I get a new cassette before putting my new Sram chain on. How do you put on a new cassette, and do you need a special tool to get the old one off? Do you need a torque wrench? Are cassettes expensive? Who makes the best quality?

The chain and cassette wear away at the same time and as a result they blend together. you will then find that just replacing one may be worse than the original problem (i did).

To replace the cassette you will need a Cassette lockring tool and it does say to use a Chainwhip but I just use the old chain.

Place the wheel on the floor, wrap the old chain around the cassette that has to be removed and put a foot on the other end of the chain to hold the cassette still while you undo the lockring.

On the subject of what cassette to buy I leave that for others more experienced to tell you about, but I usually ask my credit controller (wife) how much money we have and go from there;) , lately it been XT upgrades for me:D

this will solve all your problem, Buy a new Bike,:D :D :D , send the old one to me

The rear cogs may need replacing if they are worn. A new chain on worn cogs will slip around the cog one tooth when you pedal hard. Sometimes this only happens on a couple of the commonly used cogs. Try the new chain and see if you have any slippage. Inspect the cogs to see if any have particularly worn teeth (NB some teeth are carefully profilled into odd shapes to shift easily, this is not wear)
Standard Shimano cogs are best on a Shimano hub, but you can only get them as a complete set.

If you replace the chain before it is too far gone, the cogs will give several years of service. This is much cheaper than replaceing chain and cogs every time.

That old chain could come in handy to take off your cassett. just wrap the old chain around the smallest cog or the next couple bigger ones and hold the cassett with a big pair of pliers. this keeps the pliers from damaging the teeth of your cassett and you won't have to buy a chain whip to get your cassett off. If you buy that Park kit it will probably come with a chain whip. I've bought my tools one or two at a time because I,m cheap, but looking back maybe buying a kit would have been smarter over the long haul.

a lot of you are suggesting I get a new cassette before putting my new Sram chain on.

Only if the old one is worn out. I'm betting that it probably is.


do you need a special tool to get the old one off?

Yes. A casette tool, and a chain whip.


Do you need a torque wrench?

Only if you are anal-retentive....


Are cassettes expensive?

$25-$60, depending.


Who makes the best quality?

Campagnolo.

Originally posted by D*Alex


Campagnolo. {Quote**

I agree.

Originally posted by D*Alex


....Campagnolo.

But only if your shifters are Campy too. You have to match components.

Details, details.......

Originally posted by jayhop
That old chain could come in handy to take off your cassett. just wrap the old chain around the smallest cog or the next couple bigger ones and hold the cassett with a big pair of pliers. this keeps the pliers from damaging the teeth of your cassett and you won't have to buy a chain whip to get your cassett off. If you buy that Park kit it will probably come with a chain whip. I've bought my tools one or two at a time because I,m cheap, but looking back maybe buying a kit would have been smarter over the long haul.
Good idea. In fact, how hard would it be to buy or scavenge a piece of band iron or aluminum, drill a couple of holes in it, and make a whip?

Originally posted by roadbuzz

Good idea. In fact, how hard would it be to buy or scavenge a piece of band iron or aluminum, drill a couple of holes in it, and make a whip? A rag will often work for removing a cassette lockring.The old chain just needs wrapped and steped on,to function as a whip.

I've thought of doing that but have't ever done it. That's it I'm doing it! well right after this ride.

OK, I can't think about this any more - someone please tell me where I have gone wrong here.

It is generally accepted that chains do not stretch, they wear. If that isn't true, there's the problem.

OTOH if it is true (which I believe, at least re the size of the numbers used in this thread), then how does the wear create a measurable change in overall length?

Here is a diagram (courtesy of Rohloff). It seems to me that all of the wear occurs on the outer surfaces of the "rollers" - number 7. And the pin to pin distance in all cases stays the same - it must without plate stretch. Therefore, the overall chain length stays the same (assuming that stretch is indeed a red herring).

Help!?

Cheers...Gary

Stretch, Wear, just a matter of semantics. Kinda like calling a tissue a Klenex. Sure it's a tissue, but everyone knows it as Klenex.

You are right BTW. A chain actually wears. and the part that wears is the small roller (item #4) pictured on the inside plate (item #2), play or slop develops at the intersection of the two links. This creates an overall longer chain.

A clean and well lubricated chain will extend the life of you chain.

L8R

Originally posted by gmason
OK, I can't think about this any more - someone please tell me where I have gone wrong here.

It is generally accepted that chains do not stretch, they wear. If that isn't true, there's the problem.

OTOH if it is true (which I believe, at least re the size of the numbers used in this thread), then how does the wear create a measurable change in overall length?

Here is a diagram (courtesy of Rohloff). It seems to me that all of the wear occurs on the outer surfaces of the "rollers" - number 7. And the pin to pin distance in all cases stays the same - it must without plate stretch. Therefore, the overall chain length stays the same (assuming that stretch is indeed a red herring).

Help!?

Cheers...Gary Where have you been? Chains do get longer as they wear.You determine when to change a chain by measuring it. One foot of new chain measured exactly 12",c-c of pins,chain should be replaced when the measurement is 12 1/16".waiting till the often suggested 12 1/8" will usually trash the cassette too.Change the chain at the proper time and a cassette can last through many chains. worn chains do get longer!.

Aha - wear at 4, not 7 (or probably both) does it. I would think more at 7, given the thin nature of 4.


You determine when to change a chain by measuring it.

Absolutely. But that can be done in at least two ways. I use the other one. ;) Which is by measuring the wear across several links using a Rohloff Caliber 2.

Cheers...Gary

The wear that results in chain stretch is completely in parts 1 and 4 in your diagram. Part 7 rests on the cog, and the wear of it (internal and external) adds nothing to the overall stretch.

Well, this is totally bogus, and will cause someone to have a very bad day when their chain comes apart due to a damaged link.NO TOOLS ON A SRAM LINK!! Press the sides of the link together,with FINGERS, to release it and at the same time squeeze the ends with FINGERS! The first time it may seem like you need 3 hands or a helper, but once you understand it, it's a no brainer.WITHOUT TOOLS!!!

I was going to ask why my SRAM power link just fell apart this morning; I suppose this could be the answer.

I've taken it apart twice to clean it, both times I tried to get it apart just with my fingers, but just couldn't. I finally pinched opposite corners with pliers. Apparently this is not a good idea, because as the above says is a possibility, this morning my SRAM power link just fell apart while shifting on the front chainring, with hardly any pedalling effort.

I bought a cheapo link at a hardware store to continue on my way, but now I'm deciding; if I can't get SRAM links apart properly, then I should just go back to using a chain tool on a conventional chain. I sure don't want to risk having my chain jam up a tire while going 35 down a hill.

I do like having the SRAM link though; makes cleaning the chain properly (by removing and putting in a pail of degreaser) a heck of a lot easier. I'll probably buy another power link and see if I can figure it out. Maybe some WD40 would help, but I'm definitely carrying spares and a chain tool in the future.

I bought a cheapo link at a hardware store to continue on my way, but now I'm deciding; if I can't get SRAM links apart properly, then I should just go back to using a chain tool on a conventional chain. I sure don't want to risk having my chain jam up a tire while going 35 down a hill.

Sram chains and links come with instructions. Seems many use em for buttwipe rather than reading em.A sram link full of crud may be difficult, but a shot of WD-40 usually gets the ctud out and makes life easier.

Sram chains and links come with instructions. Seems many use em for buttwipe rather than reading em.



Mine didn't. And no, I didn't accidentally use them for 'buttwipe.' (Such eloquence, sydney!)

Someone on this thread said longer than 1/16" increased length/wear/stretch means you should replace your cassette or freewheel also. Sheldon Brown says to replace the chain at 1/8" stretch/wear, and your freewheel/cassette is fine. Which is true? Is visual inspection enough to measure how worn the cogs are? Which cogs get worn the soonest...the smaller ones?

Mine didn't. And no, I didn't accidentally use them for 'buttwipe.' (Such eloquence, sydney!)

Someone on this thread said longer than 1/16" increased length/wear/stretch means you should replace your cassette or freewheel also. Sheldon Brown says to replace the chain at 1/8" stretch/wear, and your freewheel/cassette is fine. Which is true? Is visual inspection enough to measure how worn the cogs are? Which cogs get worn the soonest...the smaller ones?

sydney thinks you need to read sheldon again.

sydney thinks you need to read sheldon again.




Alright, read it, get it. I read 1/8" somewhere, but maybe that was someone on the forum...

Anyway, I'm still confused by this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#chain

Someone please tell me what sheldon means right here. He says that in measuring your chain, you should make it 'one link longer' than it needs to be to fit. But his photos tell a different story. Enlighten me.

Only two hands? Pity. Here's a hint gleaned from a bike mag. Thread a nylon tie through the links at the point you wish to break the chain. Secure it. Break the chain. It won't fly apart because the nylon tie will secure it. Cut the tie. Voila - the chain is off. Put it back together in like fashion. The tie will eliminate the need for a third hand. When the chain is reassembled, cut and remove the tie. BTW the "count the links" advice is right on as long as you are replacing like with like.

Cheers

Charles

_______________

"If it's worth doing, it's worth doing poorly..."

Anyway, I'm still confused by this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#chain

Someone please tell me what sheldon means right here. He says that in measuring your chain, you should make it 'one link longer' than it needs to be to fit. But his photos tell a different story. Enlighten me.


^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


Someone, anyone, please? This makes the third iteration of this question from me. Do I make the chain just long enough, or one link longer than 'just'?

Alright, read it, get it. I read 1/8" somewhere, but maybe that was someone on the forum...

Anyway, I'm still confused by this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#chain

Someone please tell me what sheldon means right here. He says that in measuring your chain, you should make it 'one link longer' than it needs to be to fit. But his photos tell a different story. Enlighten me.

The terminology is misleading. A link is a link and a link is 1/2" long. 1" is 2 links.I don't get the picture either. See if the repair section at www.parktool.com has a better explanation. Basically just pull the chain together till it overlaps,add 2 links(1") and if it wouldn't connect if broken there there add another link.That assumes you are using a standad connecting pin. A quick connector like a sram requires that the length of the connector be factored in and the chain be broken so both ends are narrow.

The terminology is misleading. A link is a link and a link is 1/2" long. 1" is 2 links.

Nope, a complete link is 1" long. It consists of two 1/2" long half links, an inner half link and an outer half link.

Aside from special "offset" links, it is not possble to add a 1/2" section to a standard bicycle chain.

Sheldon "Lynx" Brown


+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every |
| decision that he makes and we should just support that. |
| -- Britney Spears, September 4, 2003 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+

Nope, a complete link is 1" long. It consists of two 1/2" long half links, an inner half link and an outer half link.

Aside from special "offset" links, it is not possble to add a 1/2" section to a standard bicycle chain.

Sheldon "Lynx" Brown


+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every |
| decision that he makes and we should just support that. |
| -- Britney Spears, September 4, 2003 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Then why is a new sram chain with 116 links(as stated on the box) only 58" long? I guess it's the difference in terminology beween 'complete', and inner and outer.

Nope, a complete link is 1" long. It consists of two 1/2" long half links, an inner half link and an outer half link.

Aside from special "offset" links, it is not possble to add a 1/2" section to a standard bicycle chain.

Sheldon "Lynx" Brown


+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every |
| decision that he makes and we should just support that. |
| -- Britney Spears, September 4, 2003 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+




I love the quote, Sheldon. Any way you could clear up your chain-sizing instructions/image discrepancy?

Aside from the fact that your chain has streched, why do you wnat to replace it now? If you r not haivng any problems at the moment then why not wait until something shows up, since you seem to be contemplating getting a new cassette anyway? Maybe u can get another 3000 miles out of your chain and sprockets. As the saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Then why is a new sram chain with 116 links(as stated on the box) only 58" long? I guess it's the difference in terminology beween 'complete', and inner and outer.

Actually it's a difference between what has become a misconception outside of the chain industry. Within the chain industry, chain is made of roller links, pin links, and special occasion offset links. The industry itself does not make a practice using this "complete or 1/2" links.

This misconception is born in part from the fact that in order to lengthen or shorten a chain you have to add or remove both a roller link and pin link, however its sooooo much easier to say, "Hey, this chain needs to be shortened (or lengthened) a link."

BTW, a connecting link is nothing but a special purpose pin link designed to connect two ends of a chain together.

When customers call up specifying a length of chain by the number of links we try to find out how long the chain actually is, if they don't know then we quote them in writing as to the actual length of chain were quoting. The acutal terminology used in the industry is to refer to a length of chain by the number of pitches. This way there is no misunderstanding as to what a link is.

Sram chains and links come with instructions. Seems many use em for buttwipe rather than reading em.A sram link full of crud may be difficult, but a shot of WD-40 usually gets the ctud out and makes life easier.

Nope. My SRAM chain came in a plastic bag with nothing, not even markings on the bag, just a stock number sticker.

Nope, a complete link is 1" long. It consists of two 1/2" long half links, an inner half link and an outer half link.

That fits with my understanding. If you go and buy roller chain for equipment, they sell a link that's small on one end and big on the other, for use if taking a link out takes it from too long to too short. It's called a "half link".

Actually it is called an offset link. The regular link used to join chain is called a connecting link.