Foo - Eating oil - article

May be a repost...

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

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so no more sex and reproducing?

It's interesting how all these dooms day people want to kill people. They want to be given the power to choose who dies and who can travel. The obvious entrpeneur place is hydroponics and space. Unlimited energy, Unlimited space and we could reclaim Earth to nature . But nobody ever mentions this

Thjey all mention KILLLING HUMANS and REMOVING VEHICLES. Either by convincing people to do do it themselves through guilt or by giving them the power to.

If zombies took over the earth, Gaia would be happy. Zombies dont need suv's and industrial agriculture and timber. Just good, old-fashioned BRAINS

If zombies took over the earth, Gaia would be happy. Zombies dont need suv's and industrial agriculture and timber. Just good, old-fashioned BRAINS
You have a very negative outlook on life :p A real party pooper

what's your problem? you dont like BRAINS? mmmm, BRAINS!

Actually, I can only think of one movie where zombies exclusively ate brains. The rest of 'em just like eating plain 'ol flesh. Not quite so picky.

Because they realized with no humans their supply of food was quckly diminished.

When the zombies eat alll the people, they will slowly rot away, and the animals and plants get to take over again. Yay!




.....except for some troublemakers on some stupid island in florida with a helicopter. Hurricanes?

I'll be on my moonbase. But I don't have any plans on comming back here.

I'll be on my moonbase. But I don't have any plans on comming back here.
If I had a moonbase i wouldn't either :D

The obvious entrpeneur place is hydroponics and space. Unlimited energy, Unlimited space and we could reclaim Earth to nature . But nobody ever mentions thisThat's because it's as far-fetched as saying "Let the robots do the dishes!"
Sure, maybe one day, but not anytime soon, and seeing that there are obviously some hard times coming is not the same as "wanting to kill people," -that's just an idiotic strawman you pulled out of your butt.
Claiming that environmentalists, conservationists and such love nature and hate people is just a silly, over-used old lie, but one that seems to put the responsible parties' consciences at ease. Surprise, surprise. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and the UFOs will come and bail us out after all, in the meanwhile, people with the courage to look ahead, and don't like what they see, simply want lots of people to die. :rolleyes:

I dont want them to die, I want them to live forever as zombies, or possibly mutants.

It's interesting how all these dooms day people want to kill people. They want to be given the power to choose who dies and who can travel. The obvious entrpeneur place is hydroponics and space. Unlimited energy, Unlimited space and we could reclaim Earth to nature . But nobody ever mentions this

Thjey all mention KILLLING HUMANS and REMOVING VEHICLES. Either by convincing people to do do it themselves through guilt or by giving them the power to.

how many people can the planet feed,clothe, and shelter sustainably permanently?

-1^.5

hydroponics and space.

When I was in college I was studying plant and soil sciences. A professor in the dept. did some summer research thing for NASA, and was eventually hired full time by NASA. His research was on growing plants in synthetic atmospheres. This was 10 years ago. Life in space is not science fiction anymore.

Yawn...I knew it wasn't worth reading, but I gave up at the point that he stated that colonialism was driven by agriculture. There's always someone ranting about how we're going to run out of food on Tuesday...Wednesday evening if we're lucky.

Life in space is not science fiction anymore.Um, yes it is, seeing as how it has not yet happened, and is still a while off. Life on Earth is a reality, though, so we should probably start there. Hate to bust anyone's bubble, but it's kind of ******** to look foreward to colonizing pristine planets while this one goes to ****.

Um, yes it is, seeing as how it has not yet happened, and is still a while off. Life on Earth is a reality, though, so we should probably start there. Hate to bust anyone's bubble, but it's kind of ******** to look foreward to colonizing pristine planets while this one goes to ****.

we colonized the pristine north american continent while europe went to %$#^%

we colonized the pristine north american continent while europe went to %$#^%
That's because we had things called "boats" and North America had oxygen, game and vegetables we could eat. As far as we know, any planets that have any of those things are not reachable within thousands of human lifetimes, nor do we have the ships to traverse those distances. If you're thinking of "terraforming" our near neighbor planets, well, that's a ways off too. But you already knew all that, right? What are you guys smoking, nowadays, anyway? ;)

That's because we had things called "boats" and North America had oxygen, game and vegetables we could eat. As far as we know, any planets that have any of those things are not reachable within thousands of human lifetimes, nor do we have the ships to traverse those distances. If you're thinking of "terraforming" our near neighbor planets, well, that's a ways off too. But you already knew all that, right? What are you guys smoking, nowadays, anyway? ;)

whether or not its a good idea, our government is working on it, that was my point.

whether or not its a good idea, our government is working on it,
So reassuring.

Um, yes it is, seeing as how it has not yet happened, and is still a while off. Life on Earth is a reality, though, so we should probably start there. Hate to bust anyone's bubble, but it's kind of ******** to look foreward to colonizing pristine planets while this one goes to ****.
Just FYI - Mars could have a semi-breathable atmosphere if people would have sent oxygen producing spores to mars. But if they did this then we would have another Revolution. Another US breaking away from Britian and they will not have that happen because the people who do break away will have learned from the mistakes of this generation and this country and they won't be able to infiltrate it.

Odd thread.

Mars doesn't have the gravity to hold a dense amosphere.
Just where can I get these magic nuclear fusion spores? They sound handy.

Zombies are a bad idea. They tend to go for the sweet juicy brains, but we need them to go for the stupid people, they're the ones that breed like rabbits and use lots of resources while contributing little to none. Ever try to train a zombie? Good luck.

Odd thread.

Mars doesn't have the gravity to hold a dense amosphere.
Just where can I get these magic nuclear fusion spores? They sound handy.

Zombies are a bad idea. They tend to go for the sweet juicy brains, but we need them to go for the stupid people, they're the ones that breed like rabbits and use lots of resources while contributing little to none. Ever try to train a zombie? Good luck.
You just want the atmosphere breathable - you wouldn't care what density it was since people would STILL have to live inside of colonies but by transforming the oxygen you have the first major hurdles taken care of.

cyanobacteria oxygen as bio product

Anabaena azollae
Theres also quite a few Archaebacteria that can survive in intense cold or intense heat that are capable of producing oxygen as one of their bi-products.

For those not trolling.


Halophiles need oxygen while methanogens are anaerobic; however, halophiles can produce energy without oxygen in two ways: from the degradation of arginine, and by using the photosynthetic molecule bacteriorhodopsin (see above). It has been suggested that these two methods of anerobic energy production are the last remnants from the halophile's anaerobic ancestry when the earth's atmosphere lacked free oxygen gas more than 2 billion years ago.

We would basically be using the same method that Earth supposedly got our air from except in a much more controlled state and accelerated state, by ensuring that whatever bacteria that we used was in greater abundance and also had a massive abundance of whatever it needed to be the catalyst for the transformation.

For those not trolling.


We would basically be using the same method that Earth supposedly got our air from except in a much more controlled state and accelerated state, by ensuring that whatever bacteria that we used was in greater abundance and also had a massive abundance of whatever it needed to be the catalyst for the transformation.
Probably the next best quote


One perplexing question about the evolution of life is whether the first cells appeared in fresh or warm saline waters.
It magically appeared in water out of nothing. Sweet. I knew the tooth fairy existed.

What's the current cost of launching a payload out to low earth orbit? Something like $10k per pound using US rockets, I believe. Let's say $1k per pound using Russian rockets (wild guess). Never mind the huge amount of pollution that launching all of us to space would cause. (Ever watched a launch, even on TV?) We may well take ourselves off the earth, but we would probably choke it to death in the process.

Next, what's the current cost of launching a payload to Explody Pup's moon base (or beyond)? And how feasible is it to take a human there? Let's put it this way. If China could reasonably safely land a man on the moon right now, they would. The USSR worked toward it for a while without a moon landing. They have/had massive resources at their disposal.

There will be no mass exodus to outer space in this century. A few hundred or thousand space colonists by the end of the century, perhaps. But no exodus of millions. It just isn't going to happen by then. Too bad, though. A BikeForums group ride on Olympus Mons would have been nice.

-1^.5

you what?

It magically appeared in water out of nothing. Sweet. I knew the tooth fairy existed.So, you're going to explain all about the science behind "terraforming" another planet, but then right at the end imply that life never evolved on this planet? Thanks for playing, d00d. :rolleyes:

It's interesting how all these dooms day people want to kill people. They want to be given the power to choose who dies and who can travel. The obvious entrpeneur place is hydroponics and space. Unlimited energy, Unlimited space and we could reclaim Earth to nature . But nobody ever mentions this

Thjey all mention KILLLING HUMANS and REMOVING VEHICLES. Either by convincing people to do do it themselves through guilt or by giving them the power to.

Well, until man collectively learns to not overpopulate and outstrip the enviroments ability to provide resources which we need to live then its a valid opinion isnt it?

Is anyone here at all familier with "The Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy"? Texasguy? Or the simple differance between a molecule and an atom?
Simple stuff from the first week of first year high school chemistry.



If ya want my body and ya think I'm sexy
Come on sugar let me know.
If ya really need me
Just reach out and touch me
Come on honey tell me so.

You just want the atmosphere breathable - you wouldn't care what density it was since people would STILL have to live inside of colonies but by transforming the oxygen you have the first major hurdles taken care of.

cyanobacteria oxygen as bio product

Anabaena azollae
Theres also quite a few Archaebacteria that can survive in intense cold or intense heat that are capable of producing oxygen as one of their bi-products.
Actually, density is important. EVen a pure O2 atmo at insufficient pressure with sufficient O2 content to support life, you will experience hypoxia due to the inability of the O2 to pass the alveoli walls to the capillaries. At 20,000 feet there is significant hypoxia due to two factors:
reduced overall atmo pressure, even though the O2 level is sufficient to sustain life, hypoxia occurs due to insufficient total pressure to fully affect gas exchange. Formula to compute this is D/(Qr|>β|). This model also applies to cutaneous gas exchange.

Bibliography:
Piiper,American Zoologist 1988 28(3):963-972; doi:10.1093/icb/28.3.963

Actually, density is important. EVen a pure O2 atmo at insufficient pressure with sufficient O2 content to support life, you will experience hypoxia due to the inability of the O2 to pass the alveoli walls to the capillaries. At 20,000 feet there is significant hypoxia due to two factors:
reduced overall atmo pressure, even though the O2 level is sufficient to sustain life, hypoxia occurs due to insufficient total pressure to fully affect gas exchange. Formula to compute this is D/(Qr|>β|). This model also applies to cutaneous gas exchange.

Bibliography:
Piiper,American Zoologist 1988 28(3):963-972; doi:10.1093/icb/28.3.963

What life is sustained at 20,000 feet?

It's the partial pressure of the oxygen in the gas mix that really matters.(total mols per cubic meter really, but for the normal human tempature range, partial pressure works just as well.)
Sea level there is about 3 psi(0.2bar) of oxygen, at 18,000 feet there is only about 1.5 psi oxygen.

Also, too high of a partial pressure creates hyperoxia(O2 toxicity) over 1.2-1.6 bar(18-23psi) for short periods causing convultions, dizzyness, etc. or
"Pulmonary oxygen toxicity Bronchopulmnary dysplasia(BPD) is caused by exposure over 16 hours to partial pressures of 0.5 bar(7.5psi) or more causing breathing difficulty and pain resulting in lung damage which may be irreversible. This is a rare complication for divers, but may be of concern in intensive care patients needing high inspired oxygen concentrations."

What life is sustained at 20,000 feet?

It's the partial pressure of the oxygen in the gas mix that really matters.(total mols per cubic meter really, but for the normal human tempature range, partial pressure works just as well.)
Sea level there is about 3 psi(0.2bar) of oxygen, at 18,000 feet there is only about 1.5 psi oxygen.
"
I was referring to the minimum required pressure to exchange gases. Essentially, even in a pure O2 atmosphere if there is insufficient pressure for gas exchange, then hypoxia will occur, even if the amount of oxygen involved might be sufficient at partial pressure in a normal atmospheric pressure to sustain life

We're not in disagreement, I just think you may have misinterpreted what I actually said, or I was insufficiently clear, one or the other.:D

Crazy stuff man:eek:.

I was referring to the minimum required pressure to exchange gases. Essentially, even in a pure O2 atmosphere if there is insufficient pressure for gas exchange, then hypoxia will occur, even if the amount of oxygen involved might be sufficient at partial pressure in a normal atmospheric pressure to sustain life

We're not in disagreement, I just think you may have misinterpreted what I actually said, or I was insufficiently clear, one or the other.:D

I didn't think we were in disagreement. I do think there is something inaccurate about your wording though, maybe a mixup of partial pressure, percentage, or total pressure and the word "amount". ;)

At any reasonable pressure(well below the liquification pressure that is) the particles in a given gas will always be moving at the same mean velocity if the tempature is kept constant, the only difference is the number of particles striking a given area per second.
So, as long as there are sufficiant particles per second (partial pressure) and reasonable living tempatures (velocity of the particles) I don't see why there would be any hypoxia. One would need to be ajusted to it, like a diver accending from an extra long bottom time dive, of course.