Touring - Surly LHT off-road experiences?

We are getting a new bike for my wife--either a Novara Safari or a Surly LHT. Light touring is intended at some point, but mostly the bike will run around town (running errands/getting groceries), on bike paths, shorter charity rides, and hopefully on some trails. I'm curious if anyone has taken their LHT off-road. I'm not talking about technical trails, but dirt roads verging into light singletrack. The bike will see similar use to my Cross-check, but we think the LHT or Safari (with the 26" wheels) will fit her 5ft.1 frame better. She doesn't care about going fast.

Any experience on rough roads or trails with your LHT? Would the longer wheelbase made climbing on dirt incredibly difficult (hard to get traction)? Any sense of why one bike would be better than the other?

I know they are pretty different in price; we could afford the LHT, but if the Safari is just as good or better for what she will do then we would just as soon save the money.

Thanks.

bump. Don't more people have experience with thier LHT on trails and such?

Hopefully I will soon...

There was a post a ways back on the Surly blog, before they released the LHT, about testing it off-road. They said good things about it (of course they did, they built it!), but remarked that rear wheel slip will happen easily on loose ground or steep hills with loose ground. That's because of the long chainstays. Other than that, it should be fine. You should avoid going over too many logs - the lower BB means you could bash a chainring.

By the way, Surly also makes the smaller sizes of the Cross-Check for 26" wheels, so that's still an option.

I have a similar bike, though it has higher bottom bracket clearance. I think the main problem are tires. even 37s don't have much float. I was on a fourty mile section of rail trail with firm stone dust surface, and I had to let a ton of air out of the tires to get up on top of the surface. Of course, you can fit wider tires.

If you run drops as you probably "should" if you are doing a lot of road touring, there are control issues, unless you can find some dirt drops.

Finally there is braking, most drops, combined with road levers and cantis, or whatever, do not provide the kind of stick in the spokes stop I want off-road.

You could deal with the last two, obviously by simply adding flat bars and MTB brakes.

So I think all the problems you will encounter probably aren't driven too hard by the frame. I have an old 80s moutain bike, and it is pretty similar to a touring bike in it's frame. Also, some expedition bikes design for 50% off-road/road , like the Expedition 26, still have the really long stays.

There was a post a ways back on the Surly blog, before they released the LHT, about testing it off-road. They said good things about it (of course they did, they built it!), but remarked that rear wheel slip will happen easily on loose ground or steep hills with loose ground. That's because of the long chainstays. Other than that, it should be fine.

OTOH, the longer chainstays should help keep your front wheel on the ground, which can be a big problem when pedalling uphill on rough trails in the lowest gears. (Hell, I've even had that problem on the road when launching from a stop with a big load in the rear.)

I have a similar bike, though it has higher bottom bracket clearance. I think the main problem are tires. even 37s don't have much float. I was on a fourty mile section of rail trail with firm stone dust surface, and I had to let a ton of air out of the tires to get up on top of the surface. Of course, you can fit wider tires.

If you run drops as you probably "should" if you are doing a lot of road touring, there are control issues, unless you can find some dirt drops.

Finally there is braking, most drops, combined with road levers and cantis, or whatever, do not provide the kind of stick in the spokes stop I want off-road.

You could deal with the last two, obviously by simply adding flat bars and MTB brakes.

So I think all the problems you will encounter probably aren't driven too hard by the frame. I have an old 80s moutain bike, and it is pretty similar to a touring bike in it's frame. Also, some expedition bikes design for 50% off-road/road , like the Expedition 26, still have the really long stays.

letting out air from tires to ride on soft surfaces is common practice. even 4x4s do this.

you can get plenty of control from drop bars, just make sure they're nice and wide (44-46 mm). salsa bell laps are nice.

road levers with cantis can provide tons of stopping power. especially if you use old school high profile cantis - you'll have no problems locking up the wheels (not that you would want to). low profile cantis work fine too. Heck old mountain bikes used these and no one ever complained.

I've had both the LHT and the Crosscheck. The extra 1/2 inch of bottom bracket height makes a big difference off road. I prefer the Crosscheck for all around use (including touring) and would only get the LHT if it were going to be used strictly as a touring bike. When it isn't loaded, it feels more tank-like. The Crosscheck is more nimble but not quite as rock solid when loaded down. Either way, they are both great bikes.

"letting out air from tires to ride on soft surfaces is common practice. even 4x4s do this."

That's why I did it, but it was vastly less preferable to having real mountain bike tires, so my advice would be, depending on how much of the time one is planing on using this bike as an MTB, then consider an MTB, for the tires and everything else.

Other than city bike uses this thing is to be used "some day" for light touring, and "hopefully on trails", though the thread is all about offroad performance. Other than Surly threads, the other most likely one around here is probably the "can I use my MTB for touring" For which the answer is always an enthusiastic "yes". Hardly seems as though the LHT is required for the uses described. Actually my Urbanite which is 1/2" or more higher in the BB, and otherwise a light frame loaded touring bike might be an all around better choice.

"you can get plenty of control from drop bars, just make sure they're nice and wide (44-46 mm). salsa bell laps are nice."

Exactly, the dirt drops are wider still, but probably not necessary for this rider.

"road levers with cantis can provide tons of stopping power. especially if you use old school high profile cantis - you'll have no problems locking up the wheels (not that you would want to). low profile cantis work fine too. Heck old mountain bikes used these and no one ever complained."

Not really true, I have Paul Neo Retros on my bike, and have been riding and wrenching cantis since the first MTBs appeared on the scene. There is a loss of power from road levers for sure, and I am far from the only one saying so. And I do want the capability to lock up my wheels, I don't want to always skid, but I do want to use all the power available right up to that point. "To infinity and beyond"

My 62cm LHT has clearance for WTB Exiwolf 29x2.3 tires.

Very narrow clearance, but they do roll.....

Hows that for versatility?

My 62cm LHT has clearance for WTB Exiwolf 29x2.3 tires.

Very narrow clearance, but they do roll.....

Hows that for versatility?

post a pic if you can. I was nagging the surly guys about this before I bought a LHT, they said a 29er tire would fit but not be practical, that 45's were the suggested max. if 2.3's fit its got even more clearance than the crosscheck!

you can get plenty of control from drop bars, just make sure they're nice and wide (44-46 mm). salsa bell laps are nice.

This would be way too wide for a 5'1" woman.

The smaller sizes of any bike tend to have a longer wheelbase (proportional to the size of the rider). The handling of a M size LHT is no sure indicator of the handling of a small version.

For just riding along trails, a drop bar, 26" LHT style of bike will be fine. I have taken my tourer over mountain trails and down extreme slopes that cause less experienced MTBers to bail out. The major variable is the style of tyres. Fit a knobbly, semi slick or narrow high pressure slick according to the conditions.

This would be way too wide for a 5'1" woman.

Give me a minute while I pull this size 11 out of my mouth.