"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Talk to me about my HR while racing...please!

I have just started racing after riding solo for about 8 years. Saturday's race was very fast and hilly and 30ºC/86F. I am 32, and have just started using an HRM.

Stage 1: 42km with 550m of climbing (26 miles with 1804 feet)
Stage 2: 24km with 440m of climbing (15 miles with 1443 feet)

My heart rate averaged 184 for stage 1 and hit 201, is this good or bad, am I fit or un-fit? I didn't feel like throwing up or anything, I actually felt very good but I died on stage 2 and struggled home in granny gear (39 x25) and got muscle spasms in my lower quads, just above my kneecaps on the very last climb. I should have eaten my Powerbar at the halfway point, and drank more. I don't think the muscle spasm was related to my heart rate, as I was taking it easy and averaged 170 for stage 2.

So my question. Is this just part of racing and I better get used to it? or should I slow down to keep my heart rate down and get dropped in the process?

I went all out on Stage 1 to stay with the break away but we got caught and I couldn't stay with them. Still learning.:)

CHEERS.

Mark

When I race the only thing I use my Heart Rate for is a good laugh. Personally I have found that because of the excitment and adrenilin(sp?) from the race, my heart rate does not match my effort. Often I would look down and see a heart rate of 178 when I was riding comfortably in the pack. The only thing I would say is I use it to compare it race to race, and even that I don't do to often. I mainly use my heart rate for trainning purposes. Also to determin how fit you are use your resting heart rate. The lower the more fit. When I peaked this summer my resting heart rate was between upper 40s and lower 50s. Right now, Having not ridden for two weeks and inconsistantly before then, I can't get it to break 60, but that is just me. Thats just my 2 cents, and I hoped it helped.

-Matt-

The basic function I use my HRM for is to set a minimum and use the alarm to speed up should I start to slack off. Is not the intent of a HRM to keep your activity so the Heart rate stays above a minimum value and to stay below a maximum value where you go anaerobic.
I should get a better guide to using the HRM but above this maximum, I think your metabolism is breaking down protein or muscle? The greatest reward in tracking the Heart's beating is to realize how much less it will be beating in the future to do the same amount of work.. On some of my worst climbs, my heart would exceed 190 and now it normally stays below 170.
I am not sure if the HRM does much more than setting a target rate for activity and lets you know when you over exerting yourself.. Think you should not exceed 80 % of your maximun HR for very long periods of time...
I set my minimun at 60 percent and max. at 80 %. It is great to realize you can go out on a ride for 5 hours and keep you heart between these ranges. What great exercise..

is this good or bad
No one can answer this question except your physician. And then only after you get a sports physical, including a good stress test.

This is not a good subject to be guessing at.

Good luck!

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by Dutchy
Is this just part of racing and I better get used to it? or should I slow down to keep my heart rate down and get dropped in the process?
I think so. In a race you have two choices... ride by the numbers and watch the pack ride away, or go with 'em, HR be d@mned! It sounds like you're quite fit, to me.

My experience in group rides, and the like (haven't raced) is that you have to develop a feeling for what you're capable of. Burn too many matches early, and you won't have anything for the end. And, it varies somewhat from day to day. And if it's a multi-day event, you have to keep in mind that you're going to have to save some for tomorrow. Recovery is a science unto itself... there's been a lot written about it.

Then, too, one time a racer told me 'the winning break is the one you get on, and keep thinking there is no way I can stay with this, but do!'

So, I guess experience is the best tool to get you through all the contradictory advice. ;)

You have to be aware that cross talk w/ other riders HRMs can effect your final readings / averages.

As a guideline, LA TT's at 87 - 92 % of MHR. By comparison (and it's a sorry comparison at that ;) ) my last race was run at 90% of MHR for a little better than 2 1/2 hours.

Thanks for the replies. It seems I shouldn't focus on my HRM while racing, but maybe use a better strategy and not go too hard at the start.

Thanks.

Mark

Dutchy, it's not about comparing yourself to others; it's about comparing your own progress. Human being are all wired differently. Elite professional cyclists have max and min heart rates that vary to a considerable degree. What you want to look for is how long you can maintain at a 80% and a 90% max HR, as well as how long you can hover just under your max. You should train to increase these times with intervals and by working closely with a coach or mentor. You will be impressed at how much your strength and speed improve when you stick to a disciplined interval program.

I'm new to the HRM info too, but I have read Edmund Burke's book Serious Cycling, it has some good information on using a HRM for training, as well as racing.

it sounds kinda like you bonked in stage two, it depends on the race if you should go with a breakaway or not. For example, if I was riding in a long road race and saw a break on the flats, and knew that climbs would come up later in the race, I might not chase them. Since I know that when we hit the climbs I have a better chance to be fresh and create a break of my own.

also the more information you have with your HRM the better you can understand it.... so continue training and gather the data.

Mark,

i've been racing and using the HRM for about 4 years. as my most significant problem is going to fast too early so i really rely on my HRM to keep me from burning up. it is almost impossible for me to do a competitve ride longer than 2 hours without my HRM b/c i will go too hard!

from your numbers alone you cannot determine anything - only comparing your numbers to YOU has any value b/c each person has different max and LT. your description sounds familiar: you stay with the fast guys for the first half of the race, feeling fine although the whole time over LT so building up lactate acid. after 45 minutes to an hour your body can't sustain it and the acid buildup slows you to a crawl - pain, no power, your speed drops and sometimes you can't even finish the race... (i've been there!)

from estimates and training you need to know YOUR Lactate Threshold (LT). also depends on other factors, but most people can only sustain roughly 20-30 minutes above LT without extended rest. by monitoring my LT i know pretty well how i am doing at all times - if i have lots of reserve power, if i am just holding on... if i am feeling stronger or weaker than normal.

so what i do in races is watch my HR. if i'm way over LT after 10 minutes in a race that will take 3 hours i know i must slow down. if i'm in a pack and below my LT i know i can go with any attack (or maybe make my own). if well into the race and my HR won't get up i know i need to eat and drink (or i won't finish)...

ideally you want to ride the whole race within about +/- 5 beats of you LT with some short bursts higher for hills, sprints, jumps or whatever. if you have to go +15 beats the first 30 minutes of a 3hr race to stay with the lead pack you're not going to win anyway b/c you will burn out. it's better to ride your best race than to burn out, but it's hard especially with group/pack racing...

for me for a race less than 1 1/2 hours like a crit it's not SO critical, but for longer races i really benfit from the pacing that the HRM provides. when racing the adrenline gets going and it can be very hard to assess your effort level (i always way under-estimate when racing) - or alone i don't have the discipline to say no to an attack b/c i know i CAN (at least for a while), but if i'm already above my LT and the race is not almost over i am MUCH better off NOT going with and staying strong and hoping the other guys burn up - has been happening more often recently :)

search the forum here for some posts on finding your LT (i know i have written a few times).

Nathank... Nice reply.....Wish so I had the problem, I could not contain my ability to slow down. I wish I worked as much on speed as endurance for distance.. Not a speed guy, normally..
Determining LT is the grey area..? Think we call it the Bonk and we find ourselves asleep on the ground..?

originally posted by cyclezealot
Nathank... Nice reply.....Wish so I had the problem, I could not contain my ability to slow down. I wish I worked as much on speed as endurance for distance.. Not a speed guy, normally..

well, i'm naturally a sprinter, although through training i have become a good climber. (actually i have become a less-good sprinter as i rarely train it as it is my strenght and i haven't ridden track now in a while...). i am no good a TT although i still do OK in most triathlons. but i am so bad at sustained-effort that i can get dropped drafting on the flats behind guys that i will drop on hills! for me a successful race is one in which i make it to the last 10 minutes of a race somewhere near the front so i can power and sprint the finish... i'm not a pro, but in my racing i rarely if ever lose a sprint... it's just that usually the winner is across the finish line a few minutes before i start to sprint :)


originally posted by cyclezealot
Determining LT is the grey area..? Think we call it the Bonk and we find ourselves asleep on the ground..?

yes and no as Bonk relating to LT. i personally refer to a "Bonk" as merely running out of energy and power regardless of the intensity (i.e. 10 hours of moderate riding w/ little food and water will make you bonk even though you never approached your LT) - usually either from lack of food or water - when you are in pain just to maintain a slow speed and your HR won't climb --- i bonked in a 4+ hr off-road MTB race a few years ago and my HR would not go over 130 even though i FELT like i was working REALLY hard and was in pain to continue (my LT is 165, my max about 194 and i usually ride between 140 and 180, so 130 is normally like resting or coasting for me)

i don't know what to call it when you exceed your LT for too long - i guess i call it "blowing up" - but this is when you have overworked your body for too long and the acid and byproducts of the anaerobic processes build up in the muscles and they can't function efficiently. i have also read some articles that make it sound as though you have a limited amout of "overdrive/turboboost" energy that gets used when you go over your LT - i'm not sure how scientificly accurate it is, but i like the analogy: that you have about 30 minutes worth of "turbo-boost" and then you have to rest and refuel for a few hours to resupply it, so if you use the turbo all up in the first half of the race you have nothing left for later.


originally posted by me
The LT is harder and the best way is to do a labratory test. That being said, you can "guess" yours pretty well. i read a bunch of books and guessed mine as 165 about 2 years ago and then had a Lab test this spring and it was 164, so i think the estimates CAN be very good.

that being said, i can't write/describe all the stuff to get a really good measure -- you should find a book or something -- but basically the LT can be guessed pretty well by doing a mid-length activity at near-peak-sustainable level -- i.e. your LT is about the HR that you can maintain for a 30-60 minute time-trial. you won't be able to exceed the LT for the entire duration (most people can only exceed for 5-10 minutes, while trained athletes can 20-40 minutes and maybe exceptional pros more -- 30 minutes over is a HARD day for me and i usually have 25 over a a typical my weekly "tough" training day)

once you know the LT, and the max, there are formulas to train different things, like base aerobic, LT training, etc.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&postid=118959#post118959 -- post above + more about max

for some more info on LT:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10450&highlight=lactate+threshold -- my post about LT and Max

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14783&highlight=lactate+threshold -- my post describing how to determine LT and Max

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18030&highlight=lactate+threshold -- about really low or high LTs - a race friend who has LT of 115

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15037&highlight=lactate+threshold -- my post from September when i was thrilled that my LT had risen from low to mid 160s to almost 170! from lots of training and the TransAlp tour

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931382042/qid=1042038177/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-4616266-3508665?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1884737811/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/103-4616266-3508665?v=glance&s=books

good book

you stay with the fast guys for the first half of the race, feeling fine although the whole time over LT so building up lactate acid. after 45 minutes to an hour your body can't sustain it and the acid buildup slows you to a crawl - pain, no power, your speed drops and sometimes you can't even finish the race... (i've been there!)

Natank, thanks for the great reply. What you describe is exactly correct.

I have now decided that I will pace myself a lot better and try to catch them on the hills as this is my strength. In the races, I have blown up way too early and have been unable to use my climbing to full affect.

Thanks

Mark

i think the HRM has really helped me and my training a lot. although recently i've been racing mostly long MTB races with lots of climbing so drafting is not much of an issue - so i can really set my pace to the ideal value. in road racing where you pretty much have to stay with a pack it is much more difficult... but i think if you are racing in a class or group where you have a competitve chance you should be able to kind of work it out - i.e. if you're a cat 4 or 5 rider you're not going to be able to stay with the cat 1 or 3 pack for long and still finish the race (otherwise you should be a cat 1 rider!), so you might as well ride with cat 3s or drop into a chase group or a straggler group and ride your own pace.

i had the full lab Lactate Threshold test last spring and then did a 2-day weekend race/nutrition/training course which was good - although i more reenforced much of what i had already learned myself (plus the trainer continually harped on me for going out too hard which was good for me to hear since i had a hard time convincing myself even with the HRM) + some other good stuff especially about supplements like calcium and magnesium.

but i really swear by training with the HRM and using it in races to help me pace myself. i did a duathlon 3 years ago when i was not in top form and i knew a bunch of the other competitors so i just rode with them. after about 20 minutes i forced myself to hold back even though i felt supercharged b/c my HR was staying up around 180 (my LT is 165 or so). it was the right decision and i ended up finishing pretty high up and ahead of a bunch of the other guys i had let go at the beginning (plus, the leader made a wrong turn) so i ended up 5th (small race with only about 60 people). i can sprint and stay with anyone and it's very hard for me to let someone get away from me (often a good thing but sometimes not) and w/o the HRM i will drive my body into the ground while feeling great before i let someone fly by or drop me. but when others are just plain stronger or more fit i HAVE to or else i may not even finish.

anyhow good luck in your training and racing and i'd be glad to offer more info from what i've learned racing and training with the HRM.

I only use my HRM for training. What good is using one in a race? Watching your heart rate during a race is distracting and you should go more by how you feel than your heart rate during race conditions. Use it for TTs and for training only I say.