Riding on Crushed Limestone Trail w/ Road Bike

[grasshutmedia]

Thank you for the threads on this forum that stopped me from buying cyclocross tires for my Trek Pilot 2.1 road bike. In two weeks, I am planning a three day ride on a crushed limestone bike trail (Katy Trail in Missouri). Am I crazy to be wanting to ride my 700c road tires on this path? If cyclocross tires are not an option, anything else I can do. Flat tires is my fear, as well as increased friction from the narrow tires digging into the crushed rock.

I appreciate the collective wisdom of this site!

[grasshutmedia]

Sorry, folks. Firs

[Phantoj]

Hi.

Last year, a friend and I did a century on the Katy Trail. We rode road bikes.

We both picked up a cheap pair of 28mm tires from Nashbar - (Hutchinson Flash, $5). They were okay. We went during October, and it had been fairly dry, so the trail was pretty hard.

I didn't find the ride quality or the traction to be a problem with 28mm road tires, but I woudn't consider their performance ideal in either regard. I certainly didn't have a problem with high friction or the tires sinking into the trail - but, like I mentioned, the trail was dry and hard. I think the perfect tire for the Katy would probably be something like a 32mm Panaracer Pasela or a 1.5" MTB slick.

Since getting a new bike for the Katy is probably out of the question, you should get the widest tires that will fit your frame and run with that. If you have a local bike shop, you might be able to find the ideal width tire more quickly... but the LBS will probably charge a bit more than Nashbar or Performance.

We had two mechanical problems on our ride: I flatted the rear tire and my friend broke a spoke. I think my flat was due to hitting a rut at speed with too low of a tire pressure. The Katy has, in places, a lot of deep ruts that run across the trail. They are often hidden by leaves, and hitting them at speed can be trouble! If you get 28mm tires, you will probably need to run 80-100 psi or so to avoid pinch-flatting on the ruts.

I read a tale of a Katy adventure where rain had caused the trail to get soft and the adventurer DID have problems with the tires sinking in. So hope for some dry weather soon!

[grasshutmedia]

Hey Phantoj: Very helpful to hear from someone who's ridden the Katy Trail. I happen to be going to my LBS today, so I'll see what advice they have to give. I am assuming its the clearance around my brakes that will limit my tire size. Thanks for the great advice. I'll be on the Trail over memorial weekend, weather permitting.

[cyclintom]

Crushed limestone is nearly as good a surface as pavement. It tends to wear your tires slightly more than asphalt but not enough to worry about. Perhaps I ought to add that I've done extensive off-road riding so something as simple as a flat bike trail looks like a highway to me.

Surfaces that can have soft spots in them are no problem if you're on more or less flat terrain. Going up inclines isn't a problem either. But because there may be limited traction you need to be a bit careful on descents and not override your stopping power.

If you are worried about it have Harris Cyclery send you some 28 mm Avocet Cross II tires. These are a very good compromise tire for all surfaces.

[va_cyclist]

I've ridden plenty of miles on crushed limestone with narrow road wheels. The only real problems I've had are the occasional washboard sections after a rain, which are going to be tough on any unsuspended bike. Also, sections where the aggregate is built up into piles or a thick layer can obviously cause control problems for narrow tires, so watch out for those.

[Phantoj]

I was looking at the Pilot online; it looks like it comes with 25mm tires and it also has fender eyelets, etc. So it might be more "fat tire friendly" than the bikes we used - a Cannondale R800 and some kind of aluminum Trek road bike.

Here are the Nashbar deals:

http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?subcategory=1255&category=121&browse=&storetype=&estoreid=&brand=&searchbox=&start=1&orderby=price1&pagename=

I like the idea of a $10 32mm Pasela, if you can fit it.

You can see where the tight spot will be by looking at where it's close with your current tires. Small clearances are likely (with modern brakes) between the tread of the tire and the caliper. Also, the chainstays and side of the tire, and maybe the fork and side or tread of tire.

Be warned - 28mm tires don't slip nicely through the calipers - this is less of an issue if you have a flat, because you can squeeze a flat tire through without trouble, AND you can put the wheel back on before fully inflating.

If your wheels are not true and dished right, you will have less tire clearance on the side of the tire. And a broken spoke will be more likely to cause rubbing if you are running wide tires. So carry a spoke wrench and know how to use it. Of course, I may be paranoid about spokes because we had a spoke break.

[Phantoj]

Surfaces that can have soft spots in them are no problem if you're on more or less flat terrain. Going up inclines isn't a problem either. But because there may be limited traction you need to be a bit careful on descents and not override your stopping power.


I can confidently say that there are no inclines or descents on the Katy Trail between Jefferson City and Saint Charles.

Also, It's better to go west-to-east, because it's very slightly downhill.

Have fun; we did!

[edzo]

bontrager select-K is a tough tire. really decent on road but not race worthy.

I ride railroad beds with them sometimes they don't seem to mind

[grasshutmedia]

My bike is an '05. As my memory isn't so grand, I can't remember my current tire size. So I appreciate the list of all the places to look to make sure the tires fit. Anxious to make this work. And I can't tell you how nice it will be to not deal with any overly long descents or climbs. I live in ultra hilly part of KC and riding on the flat is rare.

Also: sorry for the double post of this thread. It looked like the process locked up the first time, so I hit submit a second time...

Do cyclocross specific bikes use cantilever style brakes for the clearance and no mud build up?

[grasshutmedia]

Also, It's better to go west-to-east, because it's very slightly downhill.

Plan is to ride all 225 in 3 days starting in Clinton, MO....west to east. Cool. Prevailing winds should help, too.

[grasshutmedia]

From these photos of the front and rear of my Trek Pilot 2.1, does it look like I have the clearance for 700c cyclocross or other hybrid tires?

Hopefully two small .png photos are attached. First time to try that function.

[edzo]

yeah there is room for cross tires or hybrids...find one close to the
numbers written on your current tire or a wee bigger. plenty o space for knobb

[chipcom]

Continental Contacts in 700x28 will do ya fine. They run narrow, more like 25s

[Phantoj]

From these photos of the front and rear of my Trek Pilot 2.1, does it look like I have the clearance for 700c cyclocross or other hybrid tires?

Hopefully two small .png photos are attached. First time to try that function.

Looks like you have a lot of room to me. You also need to check the clearance down at the chainstays. I would probably order the Pasela 32mm tires from Nashbar, probably with expedited shipping - Nashbar seems to take forever to get to me with the cheapest shipping option.

You can see what size your current tires are by reading off the sidewall. Then you can see how much clearance you have with an accurate ruler, like the common 6" metal rulers. You can figure that each mm of tire width in the tire you get will take a half a mm off the clearance at the side. (I'm guessing that each mm wider you get, you lose nearly a mm of clearance at the tread.) Then you can guess about how much clearance you will have with whatever tire you go with.

Make sure to bring some tools, know how to use them, figure out which towns along the route have bike shops, food, and water. Are you staying at bed and breakfasts along the way?

[grasshutmedia]

REAlly appreciative of the responses. Thank you! And I took my bike in to my LBS and they agreed that there is room for 28 or 32 tires. The option they showed me was a Vittoria Randonneur 700x32 or x28, $28 each. Thinking I'll order from Nashbar. Thanks, Phantoj.

Are you staying at bed and breakfasts along the way?

Lucky for me, my wife and two kids will be SAG'ing for me. Meet me either at the day's ride's end, or along the way for some fun. Not researched it fully yet, but we love camping as a family and hope there are places to do so.

[grasshutmedia]

Forgot one more question: If I get 700x28 or 700x32 tires, did one of you imply that installing those will be harder than installing my 700x25's?

[Phantoj]

After looking at your pictures, and reading up on the Pilot spec, it seems that it uses "long reach" brake calipers. Since I can fit 28mm slicks in my regular calipers, I would think that 32 should be no problem.

Having ridden the trail, I'd take 32mm tires over 28mm if I had the option. Sounds to me like the Pilot is actually a pretty good choice for fast riding of the trail.

You may want get a rack and some kind of bag, or not. Before going the Nashbar route, consider shipping cost and time and whether you're doing right by your local shop.

[cyclintom]

Generally speaking the larger the tire the easier it installs. And the lower the pressure it runs.

[Blender]

Wow, there sure were a lot of skinny tired road bikes out on the Katy this weekend and some were flying. More than I have seen in the past. Maybe because it was a holiday weekend or just good hard pack conditions.

Also noticed a lot of Road bikes with the larger CX tires. looked like a good way to go.

It was a dry packed trail but there were still soft piles of stone in the middle. That would worry me if I had to move over fast.
Some nice bikes also. Plenty of limestone dust on the gearing.

I just grabbed the Mountain Bike with the slow knobby tires. Had a 7 yr old tagging along so need for speed

[grasshutmedia]

Though my plans were severely downgraded, I did get out on the trail on my Trek Pilot road bike. This is probably a weird combo, but I went with a Vittoria Randonneur 700x28 (from my LBS) on my rear wheel to safeguard against all punctures. Wasn't sure a 700x32 would have fit. On the front, I had a Pasela 700x32 (from Nashbar). Less puncture resistance, but more surface area. The combo seemed to work nicely. Going to go for the whole Katy in the fall, I guess. Bummed I didn't get to do more this time. Fun challenge.

[grasshutmedia]

Had a 7 yr old tagging along so need for speed

Blender, how much of the Katy did you two do together? I have a 6 and an 8 year old. Both want to ride the Katy with me using one of those third wheel trailers. That way they get to pedal as much (or little) as they want. I hook it to my road bike, swapping out my carbon seatpost for an older steel one. Good combo that works for us.

[Blender]

With a seven year old boy along its time measured not mileage.

Need to explore the caves, creeks, look for sharks & throw stuff
in the Missouri river. All in All -probably 6-8 miles RT.

Also getting hot and tired is a problem so the pull along would be a major advantage for seeing more of the trail with the kids. Saw a few out there.

Trip cut Cut a little short by a strippped thread on the solid crank of the kids BMX bike. No tools so I needed to keep it intact by threading grass into it. Got it home and it now has an old Schwinn breeze crank in it.

[evictionsurplus]

I run Panaracer Pasela 700x32s on my Cannondale all of the time. I used to do 25s and 28s, but after going to 32s I decided I am not a racer and I like to be able to go off curbs and not pinch flat on a weekly basis so I have stuck with them for all my riding. They don't have much tread to speak of so they are smooth and great for commuting. I do ride some crushed limestone trails frequently (actually my fav riding surface, I love the sound) and they are ideal for such situations. That would be dry trails, when things get moist it is a different story, you may want some knobbies for that. Plus the Paselas are 10 bucks a pop at Nashbar, so you really can't go wrong. Your Trek looks like it has plenty of room for such a large tire, but I did have to dremel off some inessential metal off my rear derailleur to prevent rubbing. I am really not anal about such things, but if you are take a close look at your frame to make sure you won't rub against your down tubes.
j

[grasshutmedia]

As I ride mostly pavement during the week, I took the 32c Pasela off the front and put the Bontrager 25c back on. But I decided to leave the Vittoria Randoneur 28c on the back. I love that its a little thicker, and a whole lot tougher. I'm a clydesdale and I just feel better knowing there is a bit more bulk on the back end for those unexpected potholes and such. I don't race either, and this tire gives me more piece of mind as I enter into a summer of longer rides. I have half a mind to get another and put it on the front, but its not in the budget just yet.

On the clearance issue, it turns out Trek's Pilot line has long reach style brake calipers so I was able to get a 32c tire on it by loosening the cable to the brake. This turned out to be an added benefit to my choice of bike. Happy about that.

[grasshutmedia]

With a seven year old boy along its time measured not mileage.

Need to explore the caves, creeks, look for sharks & throw stuff
in the Missouri river.

Blender: Just want to reinforce how cool I think it is to see you take a child on this kind of trip. I assume its your son. My original plan was to do the whole Katy (alone), but I realized I would rather spend "cave, creek, and shark" time with my 6 & 8 year old kids. We ended up with crawdads, leopard frogs, all kinds of minnows, and two ticks. All from our bikes....

[Blender]

The trick to takin the Kids is stopping goofing off and making it fun when they are little. Turn around & go back when they want. They will come back with you on the next trip.
I know, I urged the older ones on a few times and they did not want to go on a ride with dad again.

Make it fun and they will ride. Just bought the 14 yr old girl a nice Giant Hybrid and she now has confidence, skill & freedom to go to the pool, bread co, friends etc and loves it. I am sure it will be her College bike.

My 12 yr old girl wants to go on a couple day ride on the Katy this summer. Her Idea not mine.
I have plenty more kids to go through (10G, 9G, 7B) b before I can take the really long rides.

Enjoy.
By the way we got 3 ticks

[grasshutmedia]

Hope some other parents out there read your last message. Good stuff. Thanks.

[Deanster04]

Continental Contacts in 700x28 will do ya fine. They run narrow, more like 25s
Good tire. Also, I ride Specialized Armadillos on my road bike in the winter on dirt roads and trails with large gravel with out any problems...pretty bullet proof. Heavy but dependable.