Commuting - Do you yell at peds in bike lane - NYC?

I'm usually not a real jerk on my NYC commutes. But today.... man....

The Brooklyn Bridge was swarmed with tourists. Some people were plain jumping right into the bike lane without even looking. There were also a number of folks just walking lazily right in the middle of the bike lane.

On my first pass, I just got really annoyed and told myself I wouldn't yell at anyone. But on my way back home... man I just couldn't refrain. Right when I reached the top of the bridge some tourist backed up right in front of my bike - not even looking - camera up to their face. "Excuse me! Get out of the Bike lane!" Then I cursed a little bit to for that NY effect :rolleyes:

So was I justified in yelling at these people? I mean, the bridge has signs every 100 feet clearly indicating which lane is which. I just think it's best for EVERYONES safety, if they were aware of the designated lane.

You are required to curse being in NYC and all. :p

..and I was annoyed with the occasional jogger or skate boarder in my bike lane. eek!

I have found that sometimes it is best in general - if I cen get around cleanly - not to yell anything as it is impossible to guess how a startled ped will react.
Having said that, many times on the Brooklyn Bridge (especially on the weekend) I have chosen to "announce" myself loudly enough that - even if English is not their preferred language - at least I get their attention.
Usually when tourists see a bike coming they move...usually, but not always.

Last week I was commuting home towards Prospect Park and two peds were crossing in the cross-walk (I had the green light), made eye contact with me and slowed down so that I would need to avoid them.
I did, but chose to pass by very close and yell as I passed them. Probably not necessary to respond in any way, but it felt good.

If they're walking in the bike path away from me, I generally buzz them pretty close and yell "BIKELANE!" as I do so. Often it startles them, and they move over (after I've already passed).

If they're walking towards me, I continue to charge towards them making eye contact.
When I get a bit closer, I start pointing to the side they should be on.
Most people get the hint, and move over before I'm within 20'.
Though, recently I had someone mock me and point over to the pedestrian path while making a stupid face.
I resisted the urge to strike as I buzzed him.

I just take the Manhattan bridge. Separate bike and pedestrian lanes and much less crowded. If you have to take the Brooklyn Bridge, I noticed tourists actually expect YOU to give way so I just fix them w/ a "I'm going to run you over and enjoy it" stare and they eventually chicken out and move. And to answer your question, yes, I yell, although rarely, and usually only at the really, really, really stupid ones.

We don't have bike lanes around here in Tampa.

I've never ridden a bike in NYC, but I ride across the Ben Franklin bridge into New Jersey from Philadelphia pretty often. I have trouble in the mid-morning timeframe with mom + a litter of children walking abreast, taking up the whole path. I think they expect me to levitate over them, because they never move, which leads to me having to break, unclip, and stop my bike to avoid hurting anyone. It's not a bike-only pathway, but I wish people could keep to the right and avoid taking up the whole path.

the brooklyn bridge is such a major tourist attraction that i just don't even bother with it. i'd rather run laps on the observation deck of the empire state building then try to navigate a bike through the hordes of people. it'll get worse as the weather gets better... :)

You are required to curse being in NYC and all. :p!
+1

We don't have bike lanes around here in Tampa.
Hahah. i was going to say. Most of the times there's not enough bike lanes to be annoyed by people who are taking up the non existant bike lane. I found this one road that has bike lanes that are usually occupied by illegally parked cars. I don't go down there and only found it just because I was trying to find some place.

all we need to take care of these unattentive peds are some "benhur chariot race" blades attached to the hubs ..nothing like 2 feet of spinning high carbon steel blades to move them out of the way one way or the other :)

There's a question about yelling? Are you saying that there are people who don't yell?
"Yo yo yo yo BIKE LANE" usually does the trick, but when passing by, I always give a supersmooth "Hey, thanks a lot." Maybe they'll think I was yelling at the idiot behind them. Don't want to leave them with a bad feeling about cyclists, you know.
But I agree with everybody who avoids the Bklyn Bridge; it's like the fall of Saigon these days, families dragging oxcarts, carrying their belongings in enormous burlap sacks, pushing abandoned howitzers....

I certainly would yell at them. For all intents and purposes they're standing in the road. They're lucky if they only get yelled at and not run down.

it can get pretty dicey. here is a visual. many times it's much more crowded than this:

http://www.wirednewyork.com/bridges/brooklyn_bridge/images/brooklyn_bridge_walk_12june04.jpg

No kidding, that pic is of a pretty light day in fair weather. Im surprised to see the peds behaving in such an orderly fashion -- must be a big tour group with them all going the same direction. It's when it's crowded and peds are walking in both directions that things get dicey, IME.

Me? After nearly getting knocked down by a jogger once I've given up on going anything other than slowly across the BB. I've accepted that if the weather is good, it's going to take forever. I save my ire for Chambers Street, for which I harbor a special distaste. It's an awful to cross the island to the Hudson Greenway along Chambers. A propos, anybody have a better route? Also, I tend to save the poorer part of my vocabulary for peds in the bike lane in Central Park, especially from what, the 7th (or is it 6th?) Ave entrance up to 72nd where cars are allowed all day. They drives me nuts!

I don't have bike lanes here, either, but I do sometimes yell at cars who are lined up in the shoulder on their way to a certain intersection.

(The road only widens to 2 lanes about 20 feet before the turn, so the cars tend to form two lines well before that, to let left-turning cars pass them to get into the left lane, which means the majority of the cars going straight or right move all the way over to the right, well into MY SHOULDER [as I tend to think of it]! I yell as I carefully pass them on the right, in what remains of the shoulder. [There are few driveways, so I'm not too worried about a right hook.])

OboeGuy, where are you coming from? I'd been using the Brooklyn across Chambers and up the Hudson all winter. (Started commuting in October. I know, I'm a contrarian.) I was about ready to give it up until I discovered [heavenly choir sings...] First Avenue. Take the Manhattan Bridge. Go up Allen or Eldridge to Allen. Pick up First at Houston. If you can time the lights, you can ride at a really decent clip on FIVE empty lanes, all the traffic a half-block ahead of you, from Houston to 23rd without stopping. You'll be grateful for the rest at 23rd.
I'm not going back to the Hudson River Greenway till the first frost. Too many oblivions.

Anybody get those joggers who jog in the bike lane even when the sidewalk is empty? Like in the suburbs? That's pretty annoying. The ones with their ipods cranked up scare the best. They jump 10 feet when you buzz them from behind.

OboeGuy, where are you coming from? I'd been using the Brooklyn across Chambers and up the Hudson all winter. (Started commuting in October. I know, I'm a contrarian.) I was about ready to give it up until I discovered [heavenly choir sings...] First Avenue. Take the Manhattan Bridge. Go up Allen or Eldridge to Allen. Pick up First at Houston. If you can time the lights, you can ride at a really decent clip on FIVE empty lanes, all the traffic a half-block ahead of you, from Houston to 23rd without stopping. You'll be grateful for the rest at 23rd.
I'm not going back to the Hudson River Greenway till the first frost. Too many oblivions.

Heh, fortunately I'm not strictly commuting these days. When I ride to visit family in Brooklyn, though, the Greenway from the GWB area (I live blocks from there) is really my best route.

Anybody get those joggers who jog in the bike lane even when the sidewalk is empty? Like in the suburbs? That's pretty annoying. The ones with their ipods cranked up scare the best. They jump 10 feet when you buzz them from behind.

Just what I was thinking... hey fool... use the sidewalk.

Ran into another situation yesterday... Segway rider going the wrong way in the bike lane... sheesh. I gotta get a Zounds.

If they're walking in the bike path away from me, I generally buzz them pretty close and yell "BIKELANE!" as I do so. Often it startles them, and they move over (after I've already passed).
Funny, we seem to have the same tactic :D


Anybody get those joggers who jog in the bike lane even when the sidewalk is empty? Like in the suburbs? That's pretty annoying. The ones with their ipods cranked up scare the best. They jump 10 feet when you buzz them from behind.
I had one of those the other day. Empty sidewalk, in the bike lane on a 60km/h street (where the average vehicle speed is 75-80km/h). "BIKELANE!"

I concur - anyone doesn't yell? Of course you do. However, I time it so that I am just past - or nearly. Too hard to guess which direction they are going to jump!

While in the states I did think seriously about an airhorn. Can you just imagine? (where is an evil smiling when I need one?)

I don't know what it is about the Brooklyn bridge, but tourists just don't behave. My parents visited me from IL last year and we walked out into the bridge...and I kept reminding my mom to stay out of the bike lane or she would get yelled at...I told her like 50 times and, oblivious, she just kept drifting over into it, gawking, until sure enough, one of you gave her the big "this is a bike lane" scolding. I don't think they understand the difference between NYC and Disney World..its just one big tourist attraction, and they don't stop to think that people live here.

I actually got yelled at by a jogger while I was in the bike lane in CP. He was going the wrong way, and yelled at me to move. I recovered fast enough from the shock to move out of the bike lane, then pick up my fist and fake a punch at his head that made him flinch. Then I yelled, "A$$hole" and kept riding. For those of you who think the bike lane is the joggers lane, the jogging/walking path is the gravel path on the other side of the fence, away from traffic. It's actually softer than the roadway and easier on the knees, but hardly anyone runs on it.

I actually got yelled at by a jogger while I was in the bike lane in CP. He was going the wrong way, and yelled at me to move. I recovered fast enough from the shock to move out of the bike lane, then pick up my fist and fake a punch at his head that made him flinch. Then I yelled, "A$$hole" and kept riding. For those of you who think the bike lane is the joggers lane, the jogging/walking path is the gravel path on the other side of the fence, away from traffic. It's actually softer than the roadway and easier on the knees, but hardly anyone runs on it.

You sir, are my hero. The only way it would have been better would be if the dude flinched so hard he hurt himself. :D What a moron! (him, not you!) I don't understand how anybody thinks it's a jogging lane.

A loud "It's Gonna Hurt!" seems to snap them back to reality pretty quickly.

No kidding, that pic is of a pretty light day in fair weather. Im surprised to see the peds behaving in such an orderly fashion -- must be a big tour group with them all going the same direction. It's when it's crowded and peds are walking in both directions that things get dicey, IME.

Me? After nearly getting knocked down by a jogger once I've given up on going anything other than slowly across the BB. I've accepted that if the weather is good, it's going to take forever. I save my ire for Chambers Street, for which I harbor a special distaste. It's an awful to cross the island to the Hudson Greenway along Chambers. A propos, anybody have a better route? Also, I tend to save the poorer part of my vocabulary for peds in the bike lane in Central Park, especially from what, the 7th (or is it 6th?) Ave entrance up to 72nd where cars are allowed all day. They drives me nuts!

All true. When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, I soon found that the Manhattan Bridge was a much better route into Manhattan. You could cross to the Greenway on Canal or one of the other crosstown streets.

You sir, are my hero. The only way it would have been better would be if the dude flinched so hard he hurt himself. :D What a moron! (him, not you!) I don't understand how anybody thinks it's a jogging lane.
Growing up in Brooklyn, you pick up some strange habits. That's just one of them. I hadn't used it since college cuz I thought I grew out of that, but it definitely had me laughing afterwards. :D



All true. When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, I soon found that the Manhattan Bridge was a much better route into Manhattan. You could cross to the Greenway on Canal or one of the other crosstown streets.
I dunno about that. Canal is wider than Chambers, but it's also longer and just as crazy w/ traffic going both ways plus you got all the chaos of people crossing everywhere and the nightmare around the Holland tunnel. It's pretty much a crapshoot either way.

I rode up behind a couple walking in the bike lane on the BB ( I live below the BB in Manhattan, so it is sort of worth the stupid peds.) and said "Excuse me could you not walk in the bike path?" The dude turns around to give me a really annoyed stare, (this is in almost to the manhattan tower- manhattan bound, - these people had been on the bridge for quite a while at this point) in turning around he realizes I am nearly on top of him, trackstanding, and moves out towards the cables. He is still giving me this attitude stare thing when he walks into a support cable, hard enough and oblivious enough to fold his baseball cap against his face. Kind of a low speed comic crash.

Maybe even the same trip, I was tearing down the ramp and this kid is walking with his girlfriend and just doesn't move. I slid right up to him and really laid into him. I am pretty sure all he heard was me calling him a MFing this and that. And none of my pleas to not walk there, for both our safety. I could have made a point that may have fastened in his stupid and selfish skull, but with injudicious use of cursing, I lost him.

It drives me crazy the runners running in the bike lane in the wrong direction.

Last week I was commuting home towards Prospect Park and two peds were crossing in the cross-walk (I had the green light), made eye contact with me and slowed down so that I would need to avoid them.
I did, but chose to pass by very close and yell as I passed them. Probably not necessary to respond in any way, but it felt good.

In Central Park, no one seems to pay any attention to crosswalk lights. The cyclists are just as bad as the peds.

In Central Park, no one seems to pay any attention to crosswalk lights. The cyclists are just as bad as the peds.

what "crosswalk lights" are you talking about? ;)

Growing up in Brooklyn, you pick up some strange habits. That's just one of them. I hadn't used it since college cuz I thought I grew out of that, but it definitely had me laughing afterwards. :D


Heh, I grew up there too but apparently not in as interesting a neighborhood. :D



I dunno about that. Canal is wider than Chambers, but it's also longer and just as crazy w/ traffic going both ways plus you got all the chaos of people crossing everywhere and the nightmare around the Holland tunnel. It's pretty much a crapshoot either way.

Yeah, no way in heck I'm riding across Canal. Driving there is bad enough. I detest Chambers, but at least it's mostly one lane of traffic.

Yeah, no way in heck I'm riding across Canal. Driving there is bad enough. I detest Chambers, but at least it's mostly one lane of traffic.

i detest chambers too. but thankfully it's a pretty quick shot to the west side if you need to go that way.

Heh, I grew up there too but apparently not in as interesting a neighborhood. :D
Where'd you grow up at?

I don't encounter this, but if I did I would 'yell', more so 'communicate' with those in the way, but keep a healthy lighthearted, non angry approach to it. Because all the yelling and anger in the world day after day would not reduce pedestrians in the wrong places, but instead would draw me into a hateful mindset for these stretches of my commute and make it a less enjoyable ride and me a less happy person (like my friend who lives in Manhattan. ;) )

Al

nah, there's no sense at cursing peds. they will always be there, no amount of cursing will make them go away. get used to it. don't be a prick and put out those bad vibes.

I respectfully disagree. This is how cyclists carve out our space. New York looks chaotic, but it runs on a million unwritten rules, and pedestrians need to know that bikes in bike lanes get priority. Most residents of more than a few years are aware of this. It's the newcomers and tourists that need to be instructed. Compare the escalators in a Wall Street subway station to those at, say, Rockefeller Center. The businesspeople know that if you're not walking, you stand to the right. At Rockefeller Center, it's impossible to enforce those rules.
The truth is that the pedestrian is king of New York. You see it when New Yorkers cross a street. It is almost a point of pride to NOT LOOK at the oncoming traffic, to purposely stroll right in front of a car at an intersection. If you don't live here, it's hard to explain and it sounds crazy, but you'd never get across the avenues if you didn't assert yourself. If there is any hesitation on the part of the car, people walk in front of it with the most exaggerated casualness. The no-look says "I know you're not even thinking of moving into this intersection." Which works. And which is crazy, also.
Since I've been riding the bike daily these past 9 months, the craziness of this defense mechanism has become obvious. Most pedestrians simply assume that you see them, and the refusal to acknowledge traffic leads to comic moments with bicycles. The buisiness guy who won't look left when he gets the light usually just about sh!ts himself when I roll right behind his path. Almost anywhere in the streets the pedestrian has the right of way, and I'll work around them with no comment. On the bike lane, they need to be told where it's safe to stand.
And I agree with noisebeam; lighthearted is better. People take instruction more kindly if you don't call them idiots.
But I also wish that nycm'er had been videoing the guy who scowled himself into the bridge cables. Put that on YouTube or iFilm, and we'd never have to have this discussion again.
OK, done.
Whew.
End of screed.

It's an awful to cross the island to the Hudson Greenway along Chambers. A propos, anybody have a better route?
headed downtown, I like either Spring or Cananl to Broadway or Lafayette to Worth to the bridge approach.

uptown, I grit my teeth and take Chambers to Hudson. I hate Chambers. I can have a nice run put together and Chambers just screws it all up. And you get up a nice head of steam headed south and then right before the climb up the bridge you end up dawdling at 12mph all the way crosstown to the bridge. Hate HATE Chambers.

to the topic at hand, though... I used to yell. A lot. Then I got a bell. It's clear, gentle tone is much more effective than my voice, even raised and profane. It's like people in NY are expecting to be cursed at in loud ones, but the sweet crisp tone of the bell really startles them.

I just take the Manhattan bridge. Separate bike and pedestrian lanes and much less crowded. If you have to take the Brooklyn Bridge, I noticed tourists actually expect YOU to give way so I just fix them w/ a "I'm going to run you over and enjoy it" stare and they eventually chicken out and move. And to answer your question, yes, I yell, although rarely, and usually only at the really, really, really stupid ones.
Don't run over anybody this weekend, my mom will be crossing the bridges. Thank you.:)

Try this from the BB to the Greenway. Instead of going to Chambers, make the left and go to Park Row. Cross B'way onto Barclay. At the WSH, either go left a block to Vesey and cross or go right a block to Murray and cross. Heading down Barclay, I can usually hit all the lights with minimal traffic going one way.

Don't run over anybody this weekend, my mom will be crossing the bridges. Thank you.:)
There's an alleycat this weekend that starts near the Brooklyn Bridge. Tell your mom to stay in the ped lane and be careful.

Yeah, I yell. Here in DC, there's a point on the path where the planes land, and all these dumb peds stand out there like a bunch of dumb dodo birds looking up at the planes while standing ON THE PATH, when there's grass they could be standing on, since there's a park surrounding the path. WTF??? Last week, two folks were smooching right in MY land over the planes, like that was supposed to be so friggin romantic. I was like "get off the effing path, you dumb ass!", and the guy was like "eff you!", and I was like "eff you and your effing **** girlfriend!". I so hoped I ruined their little romantic moment. I smirked all the way to work.

I just can't stand that bike path, but it's the only way we can get into DC from my parts. There are no roads, only freeways into DC, and this one bike lane. *sigh* How bogus is that?

Koffee

New York looks chaotic, but it runs on a million unwritten rules, ...
And the rules vary by borough. For example, born and raised NY'ers from Bklyn and the Bx. are experts at finding a car sized hole in a crossing stream of pedestrians and driving right through it. This doesn't sit well w/ Manhattanites, many of whom walk around w/ an aura of privelege about them. And the tourists get a good scare as well thinking they had the right of way and that the driver would actually yield. But if the driver has the light, he'll assert his right by reminding peds w/ his horn or by gunning the engine. Honestly, it's very satisfying when you assert your rights and make inattentive, over-priveleged peds jump back when you aim at them and speed up.

So true.

Exactly that happened on the way home on 51st Street and 8th Ave.

I have the light and start across the intersection I see this guy very pointedly look at me and proceed across the intersection without looking. I do the "it really will hurt, you know" thing and he stops dead in the middle, still not looking, right when I am coming up on him. I, of course, am aiming to pass behind him *but* he has now stopped dead on my aim point. I swerve a bit more to clear him and say, "Don't stop idiot!" he comes up with the classic "**** You!" to which I say, "Learn how to jaywalk, Moron." I did manage to hook his backpack, momentarily, with the bars. Spun him around a bit.

Good Times.

You just don't have this problem very much in the other boroughs.

Yeah, I yell. Here in DC, there's a point on the path where the planes land, and all these dumb peds stand out there like a bunch of dumb dodo birds looking up at the planes while standing ON THE PATH, when there's grass they could be standing on, since there's a park surrounding the path. WTF??? Last week, two folks were smooching right in MY land over the planes, like that was supposed to be so friggin romantic. I was like "get off the effing path, you dumb ass!", and the guy was like "eff you!", and I was like "eff you and your effing **** girlfriend!". I so hoped I ruined their little romantic moment. I smirked all the way to work.

I just can't stand that bike path, but it's the only way we can get into DC from my parts. There are no roads, only freeways into DC, and this one bike lane. *sigh* How bogus is that?

Koffee

... well .... at least you have pedestrians.

This PA suburb is like LA .... no one walks here except for occasional hobo, guy out of gas, some kid with a flat tire, or people strolling around the (3 mile) block./

... well .... at least you have pedestrians.

This PA suburb is like LA .... no one walks here except for occasional hobo, guy out of gas, some kid with a flat tire, or people strolling around the (3 mile) block./

I seriously would love it if I had your situation. I feel more comfortable on the streets with cars than I do on a bike path with pedestrians.

Koffee

Usually I yell. Sometimes I sing or bark. More than once I've yelled at mailboxes and trashcans that I thought were pedestrians about to step off curbs...

We don't have bike lanes around here in Tampa.


Not sure if he was being sarcastic or not. We DO have bike lanes, they are not marked with signs like other areas might be, but its the 3 feet or so between the white line on the edge of the road and the curb.

However if he said it as a "theory" is his correct as the drivers here are so much worse than anywhere else I have seen and going down say folwer ave where I work it would probably take less than a 2 day commute using the bike lane before a car ran you over not paying attention.

I have my motorcycle license and want one so bad, but my fiance wont let me. Talking a girl who works at the LBS the other day she told me she got hit 2x on her motorcycle in the last month by a car but luckily didnt get hurt and she is selling her motorcycle and sticking to the bikes.

You see bicycles on the sidewalk alot, and walking/jogging people not very often. The sidewalk is more of the bikelane I think on the main/busy roads.

In reidental areas its the opposit, bikes on the road and people up and down the sidewalk.