Commuting - I got a ticket

I admit, I did not stop at the 3-way stop sign. I did slow down to 13mph, which I verfied with my datalog. The officer said he clocked me at 30mph before the stop sign and 25mph as I went through it.

Since this will go on my driving record (which only has one ticket from 3 years ago), I am fighting it. I should have just kept riding, I was getting ready to turn onto a major street with lots of traffic.

I will post the ticket this afternoon after it gets scanned.

Anyone have pointers for court?

You could fight the speed portion, if that's part of the citation. Running a stop sign, however, is running a stop sign---even though every cyclist has probably done it, there's no really legitimate defense. Cyclists have a rep for ignoring traffic laws, and when it comes to stop signs the rep is justified, unfortunately.

http://ricemobile.net/images/violation.jpg

I know I did run the stop sign. My only reasoning is I slowed down to a slow speed and would have time to react if there was a car around me.

Hopefully the officer has vacation coming up soon.

I would suggest that you use your good driving record as exhibit A, and throw yourself on the mercy of the court. I did this several years ago when I was burned (in a cage) in a speed trap. The judge reduced the charge so that no points hit my license, but I still paid the fine.

I am always up for paying a fine without a point on my record. That is a good suggestion bac. Thank you.

I still believe what I was doing was safe, three way stop sign and I was on the side without cross traffic. Plus no cars on the road (except Mr. Officer 1/8 mile behind me).

Funny, three people/cars ran the stop sign as he was in his (warm) car writing my ticket.

I would verify if this was going on my driving record or not. I received a ticket in San Mateo County, CA for "failure to stop" and it was not considered a moving violation. Of course, I was going a whole lot slower than you were and was making a right-hand turn within a bike lane.

CA vehicle code states that cyclist must obey the same rules as motorists so you are obligated to stop. On the other hand, the ticketing officer told me that I did not have to come to a complete stop (i.e., unclip and put my foot down) but that I had to at least come to walking speed.

I did go to traffic court hearing and got the fine reduced to about half. I would have to go to court a second time to actually get the ticket thrown out (or not) and decided it wasn't worth the time and aggravation, as it wasn't going on my driving record. It was never reported to my insurance company.

:) How can the points go on your drivers licenses when you were riding a BIKE.You don't need a drivers licenses to ride a bike.Your drivers licenses is about how to operate a motor vehicle.(Good luck)

I'm amazed that this would have an impact on your driving record, given that a license is not required to operate a bike. Seems discriminatory: a non-licensed offender would be penalized less.

Your speed doesn't seem to be an issue with the infraction, but were you really going 30mph? That's very fast -- racing speed -- and if true may be what drew the officer's attention. To an observer, a bike going that fast appears to be unsafe all by itself.

As for the stop sign, well, when we choose to break the law we choose to accept the consequences if they happen. I don't always stop, but I'm prepared to pay if that's the cost. If you could come up with a justification that's based on increased safety for the rider, a judge might listen. I'd be interested in hearing it myself.

RichC

Styk33, where is this intersection? I can't read the officer's writing on your ticket. Just curious since I occasionally ride out your way.

I did slow down to 13mph, which I verfied with my datalog. The officer said he clocked me at 30mph before the stop sign and 25mph as I went through it.

30 mph? On a bike? And through an intersection, yet? Where was this stop-at the bottom of a hill?

Still, if even you admit that you were going 13 mph through the stop, that qualifies as "blowing through an intersection". You broke the law-now take your punshment.

The ticket was at Papaya and Rocklin, near Del Campo HS.

The stop sign is just past the crest of a hill. I was only doing 24mph up the hill and crested it. Obviously there was a big downhill just before the climb (if you can call it a climb). I did not ride yesterday, so I was happy to be on a bike again and going faster than normal.

If I was on the sidewalk (no, i do not ride on sidewalks) I would not have had to get off to 'run the stop sign.' That is partly why I run that stop sign. Plus I have yet to see more than 5 cars at that stop sign in any one month. What the officer saw on his speedo was not correct according to my computer. If anything my comptuer errs on the side of being fast. According to my GPS it is right, according to radar trailers on the side of the road it is 1mph off at 27mph.

I have no problem paying the fine, but I am not found of having to pay more for a car I rarely (haven't in 18 months) drive to insure it.

I understand that obeying the laws that cars have to is part of riding a bike. In a car you would never catch me run a stop sign. On a bike on the other hand, I will slow down and observe what (if anything) is around me and make my decision based on what is safe.

I am curious how he paced me.

I think what drew the officers attention was my bright orange/reflective CalTrans vest I wear for commuting. I will post a picture of my gear when tonight maybe. I am very, very visible, plus I get a lot of laughs, but I have yet to be hit when wearing it.

I know if you get a DUI on abike it goes on your driving record, and this is CA. It has been 10 years since I have been pulled over on a bike.

Hmm. I don't know it, but if I'm out that way I'll be careful to stop at that sign.

I am also guilty of coasting through stop signs, especially on right-hand turns. My argument (if anyone were to ask) is that it's actually safer for me to keep moving than to have to stop and trackstand or unclip and then start up again.

But if I get busted, I guess I'll have to cop to it. The Veh. Code says we're subject to the same requirements as motor vehicles, except for specific provisions about bike lanes, lights, etc.

What I will do, now that I think of it, is give them my work ID rather than my driver's license. You're only required to have DL to operate a motor vehicle and I don't think they have the authority to demand one from a cyclist. That way the DMV won't have a way to connect that ticket to your driver's record.

I would not worry about that stop sign if you are one to coast through signs. There are others in the area that are patrolled. I call CHP about once a month to get them out to 'stake out' the corner I live near.

This was a 3way stop with the other stop sign facing me and to my left. It is about the same as a right hand turn.

The officer only asked for ID, not a license. I thought about doing the fake name thing, but I am to old for that. So I gave him my license (either that or my medical card).

Also, I reread my previous post, I have never been pulled over for DUI. I do not drink, just had a roommate that had an issue with drinking.

What is Vehicule Code 04? Make sure that a bicycle qualifies for that code. If that is wrong, then the whole ticket can be thrown out. I still don't understand how cycling offenses can be applied to a drivers liscence....

Can I just ask why so many people are so concerned with trying to get away with various traffic breaches? Why not just follow the damn law? That's the reason it's there in the first place. I'm wondering if you'd be so keen to fight the charge if it was a driver running the stop sign who almost hit you.

Chris, how do you really feel about it?

I have to agree, though. You broke the law. Take it like a man. Tell the court you're a good rider (use vest, usually obey all the laws), a good driver, but just made on mistake. Hope for the best. Or just pay the ticket. You might also have the option of traffic school, yes?

You should be able to keep this off of your driving record in CA, but you might have to stay on top of that to ensure it doesn't go on that record.

If you show ordinary respect for the traffic law-- slowing down quite a bit for stop signs, looking, holding lane position, etc.-- most cops aren't going to issue a ticket. You don't have to be in perfect compliance with every law as long as you show you are riding responsibly. It's much like car drivers.

I agree...you should take it like a man...admit your guilt, point out that you are usually a careful rider, and let them know you have learned your lesson. I think the court would respond well to that.

I don't think "blowing off a light" is any more justifiable for a rider than it is for a cager. If I get hit by either one, I could be injured or killed.

Paul

well i have to disagree with you guys...

i run 3-way stops like this all the time as you don't present any danger to anyone by doing so -- the cars coming from the opposite direction cannot turn in front of you, there is no street to the right and you can ride next to the curb so a car from your left turning left doesn't use the space next to the curb... there is no safety/traffic flow/courtesy reason to stop - only to follow the letter of the law... now maybe a little slower than 13mph is in order...

but, that said, 13mph is pretty fast (i might do it too so i'm not condemning you), but i'm not too sure if you have much of a chance since you obviously did run a stop sign. i think as you seem to also that the main thing should be to try and keep it off your driving record... i think if you can present yourself as a conscientious cyclist who is willing to accept some fault for running the stop sign but still an upstanding citizen and obviously not endangering anyone as a car-driver who run the same sign would... maybe you'll get off with a fine and no points.

i do think it's pretty stupid that cycling violations can go on your driving record as you don't need a license to ride a bike... but i know that it happens.

Originally posted by Styk33
... this will go on my driving record (which only has one ticket from 3 years ago), I am fighting it. ...

What if you go carfree and forget the driving record?

Like -

You can spoil my driving record,
You can burn my house,
Steal my car,
Drink my liquor
From an old fruitjar.

Do anything that you want to do, but uh-uh,
Honey, lay off of my clipless shoes
Don't you step on my blue suede shoes.

The whole situation would be so bad if people did not laugh at me when they find out that I was on a bicycle. Even other peace offers laugh.

For all of you living outside of Californina, in our state no one is responsible for there own actions, it is always someone elses fault.

Jay

PS I ran two stop signs on the way home last night.

Originally posted by Max


What if you go carfree and forget the driving record?

Like -

You can spoil my driving record,
You can burn my house,
Steal my car,
Drink my liquor
From an old fruitjar.

Do anything that you want to do, but uh-uh,
Honey, lay off of my clipless shoes
Don't you step on my blue suede shoes.
LOL!!!
Chris is right though. I used to listen to a radio station in the morning where people would call in and report the speed traps. I would think " If you obeyed the law you wouldn't have to look out for a speed trap".

Originally posted by Styk33


Since this will go on my driving record (which only has one ticket from 3 years ago),
how can a traffic offence on a bike affect your drivers licence? if you didnt have one what would the cops do ? you should have said you dont drive!

This may be of some interest...




http://www.corkyreport.com/drunkbiker.htm

Maybe you'll get lucky and the judge will be a pro-environmental person. If somehow you could work in the fact that you're not contributing to our country's oil dependence, do not produce any harmful omissions, and do not take up scarce parking spaces, he will give you a break. How you manage to work this in will take some creativity and an imaginative segue (sp?). Good luck!

I sooooo would not have given him any ID... how about a "I forgot my ID"?

Originally posted by Phatman
I sooooo would not have given him any ID... how about a "I forgot my ID"?

I believe that there are laws in most places that say you have to carry ID.

Based on your statements, your only chance of winning this case is if the officer does not show up for the trial. I'd say this is a poor strategy. A better approach may be one of the following:

1. If your state allows you to take a defense driving (cycling?) class in return for dismissal of the ticket, then do it. The ticket won't go on your record and you may even get a discount on your auto insurance.

2. If you cannot take defensive driving, then you want to ask the judge for deferred adjudication. This sets aside the conviction for a period of time during which if you get no other taffic convictions, your offense is dismissed. You would still pay the fine, but no record for insurance increase.

Best to take defensive driving. While in the class, you can look for opportunities to promote bike awareness to the others in the class and do significant good for all.

Originally posted by Spire


I believe that there are laws in most places that say you have to carry ID.

Not in 'merica! If you don't have a driver's liscence, you wouldn't have ID. therefore, the gov. cannot force anyone to have ID on them

You can always get a state issued ID. I know of 10 states I have visited that offer then and I cannot imagine others would not. What happens if you do not have a drivers license but you need to prove your age (go to a bar, buy cigarettes).

When I got pulled over in HS for doing 45 in a 35 the guy asked me to show him my homework paper to prove I was telling him the correct name.

I sooooo would not have given him any ID... how about a "I forgot my ID"?

Sure, you could do that. There is no law in the U.S. requiring anybody to carry ID. However, the police can hold you (for as long as it takes) until they determine who you are. That is legal. Sometimes, it takes them days.......

I think that showing your ID is the quickest way to answer that question.