Easier than taking the lane

[sbhikes]

Lately all this law-abiding VC cycling is getting very tedious to me. I'm finding it much more expeditious and fun to skip the left turn lane BS and just hop on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the street. And I'm getting pretty sick of these big trucks who don't give a damn about my lane position and are going to pass me even if all the on-coming traffic has to lurch out of the way or even back up (!). And I've had it up to here with the pressure of trying to ride fast enough for traffic when there's a nice easy sidewalk right over there nobody is using. Doesn't anybody walk anymore?

Rules are meant to be broken. :p

[John E]

There are a couple of places where I do that as well, specifically to avoid some nasty left turn sequences. Examples in Sorrento Valley are Roselle St. -LEFT-> Sorrento Valley Bl. -LEFT-> Sorrento Valley Rd. and Vista Sorrento Parkway -LEFT-> Mira Mesa Bl. -LEFT-> Scranton. When I resort to these brief bursts of sidewalk cycling, I ride slowly and always give the few pedestrians I encounter the right-of-way.

I also note that these are minuscule exceptions to my normal riding style, which is much more vehicular. In a practical sense, the only places HH and I differ significantly is in two-part left turns from prime arterials (I do these frequently) and in staying in the bike lane versus weaving in and out of it between intersections.

[Helmet Head]

Hey, if you would ever see me ride, I guarantee you would not refer to it as "weaving". The period of straight riding between left or right merges is too long to characterize the technique as "weaving".

[donnamb]

Rules are meant to be broken. :p

You go, Rebel Girl!

[sgtsmile]

Lately all this law-abiding VC cycling is getting very tedious to me. I'm finding it much more expeditious and fun to skip the left turn lane BS and just hop on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the street. And I'm getting pretty sick of these big trucks who don't give a damn about my lane position and are going to pass me even if all the on-coming traffic has to lurch out of the way or even back up (!). And I've had it up to here with the pressure of trying to ride fast enough for traffic when there's a nice easy sidewalk right over there nobody is using. Doesn't anybody walk anymore?

Rules are meant to be broken. :p

You need the bike trailer my friend wants to make. He jokes that we should take turns riding the Aegis bike (may be spelled wrong) with a surface to car missle system for point defence ;p

Had a good one with a big truck the other day. A feed truck in fact. I made a right turn onto a local busy regional highway (not that busy, 1 lane each way). Now this turn was onto a road that curved away to the left after I made the right onto it. It had large buggy sized gravel shoulders with 5/8s gravel (a cow to steer a road bike on). As it is a curve, the lanes are a tad narrower, not much wider than a feed truck, actually. Mr feed truck follows me around the corner. I am about 1 foot from the gravel. I hear a chugging of diesel behind me and think, uhoh, here it comes, and relax. Mr feed truck starts to overtake. The thing is, there is a steady stream of on coming cars, so he cannot move to the left side of the road. The curve is about 200 feet long, so he COULD wait and not be inconvenienced. So, there I am with Mr feed truck passing, about 10 to 12 inches off my left shoulder. Now I am thinking, I am in his blind area, there is no mirror to show me to him, and lookie! he is drifting right! I dumped my bike onto the shoulder and got the hell outa there. Shortly after passing me, Mr feed truck brushes the shoulder where I would have been had I decided to be assertive with a driver who could no longer see me anyways. Made me think that the other road loop of a similar length is a better choice ;p

And it made me want the aegis bike...

[sbhikes]

Your description sounds like my ride the other day. Only it wasn't a feed truck. It was two haulers both with trailers. I was so scared as they rounded the bend into oncoming traffic and realized that it was either him or me (I guess I lose) that the back trailer wheels would run me over.

I hate: trucks, cellphones, corporate executives in BMWs, SUVs with cellphones or little kids in the back, and people who don't have CD changers.

[Bekologist]

I read about a couple of techniques in A&S I use often on my bike; I alternate between a modified POWERWEAVE method and a variation on the "Don't trust, yield anyway" riding style.

To get to my house from the north there is a section where I can either: a) ride on a sidewalk for a hundred yards under a highway overpass along a oneway contra flow; or ride an extra mile and a quarter on the street.

either a hundred yards of sidewalk, or an extra mile and a quarter. i do them about equally.

[-=£em in Pa=-]

Rules are meant to be broken. :p

+5000

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/music049.gif

Yer the man, Diane !!!!!! :D

[chipcom]

Rules are meant to be broken. :p

Diane: Rebel Biker Babe

[joejack951]

You need the bike trailer my friend wants to make. He jokes that we should take turns riding the Aegis bike (may be spelled wrong) with a surface to car missle system for point defence ;p

Had a good one with a big truck the other day. A feed truck in fact. I made a right turn onto a local busy regional highway (not that busy, 1 lane each way). Now this turn was onto a road that curved away to the left after I made the right onto it. It had large buggy sized gravel shoulders with 5/8s gravel (a cow to steer a road bike on). As it is a curve, the lanes are a tad narrower, not much wider than a feed truck, actually. Mr feed truck follows me around the corner. I am about 1 foot from the gravel. I hear a chugging of diesel behind me and think, uhoh, here it comes, and relax. Mr feed truck starts to overtake. The thing is, there is a steady stream of on coming cars, so he cannot move to the left side of the road. The curve is about 200 feet long, so he COULD wait and not be inconvenienced. So, there I am with Mr feed truck passing, about 10 to 12 inches off my left shoulder. Now I am thinking, I am in his blind area, there is no mirror to show me to him, and lookie! he is drifting right! I dumped my bike onto the shoulder and got the hell outa there. Shortly after passing me, Mr feed truck brushes the shoulder where I would have been had I decided to be assertive with a driver who could no longer see me anyways. Made me think that the other road loop of a similar length is a better choice ;p

And it made me want the aegis bike...

Why did you start off riding so close to the gravel? You did the right thing by backing off once in the blind spot. There's nothing assertive about riding in the blind spot of a truck.

[derath]

Methinks, Diane just enjoys picking fights on the forums lately.

Or as I like to call it, stirring up the s**tpot.

-D

[-=£em in Pa=-]

^^^alpha dog posting....'Taking the Thread'

:roflmao:

[sgtsmile]

Why did you start off riding so close to the gravel? You did the right thing by backing off once in the blind spot. There's nothing assertive about riding in the blind spot of a truck.

Taking the lane makes sense in many cases, but not on a 80kmph road that ppl usually do 110 on. MOST of the time, my experience with trucks is that they will wait a sec for the lane to widen. This guy chose not to. Pity I didnt get his plate and company name. (a cell phone is an evil thing, and the ministry of transportation, ontario provinical police, and his employer would have loved a call i am sure.....)

[joejack951]

Taking the lane makes sense in many cases, but not on a 80kmph road that ppl usually do 110 on. MOST of the time, my experience with trucks is that they will wait a sec for the lane to widen. This guy chose not to. Pity I didnt get his plate and company name. (a cell phone is an evil thing, and the ministry of transportation, ontario provinical police, and his employer would have loved a call i am sure.....)

Hugging the edge of the road rarely if ever makes sense. What difference would it make to the driver (assuming they were going to wait which most will) if you were on the edge of the road or in the center? All that hugging the edge does is tempt them to pass, which this guy did.

[sgtsmile]

I dare ya to get in the path of a 50 tonne truck and sit there when the driver decides to push past. I sincerely believe that in this case, I would have been dead had I done that. He deliberately placed me in his blind area, and then lost track of me, and then forced his way through. Me being mid lane would not have prevented that, and would have escalated his behaviour. I have no desire to have a massive truck tailgating me, blasting the horn, and so on and so on; I would rather hit the gravel than risk antagonizing someone who has no respect for any road user but him or herself.

VC is nice, but theories and reality do not always mix.

[joejack951]

I dare ya to get in the path of a 50 tonne truck and sit there when the driver decides to push past. I sincerely believe that in this case, I would have been dead had I done that. He deliberately placed me in his blind area, and then lost track of me, and then forced his way through. Me being mid lane would not have prevented that, and would have escalated his behaviour. I have no desire to have a massive truck tailgating me, blasting the horn, and so on and so on; I would rather hit the gravel than risk antagonizing someone who has no respect for any road user but him or herself.

VC is nice, but theories and reality do not always mix.

The reality is that you got run off the road which possibly (and I believe very likely) was the result of your road position. If you are ok with always having to bail in this situation, then go for it. The problem is that some day you may come across a situation where you can't bail (guard rail, no shoulder, high curb). At least if you are midlane, you've got more room to manuever and more time to decide what to do should the driver act agressively.

[sbhikes]

Well, yeah, you caught me stirring the pot. But the reality is that lately I've been a bit envious of those Mexican guys I see. They always seem to get around so well and with minimal static, hopping up on the sidewalk, cutting through gas stations on the corner, riding wrong way. Sure it's wrong and maybe a little dangerous here and there, but sometimes it's actually safer and easier.

I've been feeling like a patsy to the Man for all my law abiding ways lately and I just feel like rebelling. Maybe it's the mountain bike I've been riding.

[sgtsmile]

The reality is that you got run off the road which possibly (and I believe very likely) was the result of your road position. If you are ok with always having to bail in this situation, then go for it. The problem is that some day you may come across a situation where you can't bail (guard rail, no shoulder, high curb). At least if you are midlane, you've got more room to manuever and more time to decide what to do should the driver act agressively.

The reality is that I got run off the road by the actions of an ******* driving aggressively in a large truck. My lane position had little to do with it. Had I been in mid lane, the situation would have been just as bad except that the driver, instead of slowly squeezing me out, would have interpreted my actions hostilely and then taken even more aggressive action. It is simply foolish to take shelter in the notion that "right of way" means your bike has as much road pressence as a truck. Taking a lane in the city, esp when there are fewer spots to bail and speeds are much much lower (and you can therefore realistically hold traffic speed long enough to get out of trouble), makes sense I agree, but on high speed roads, it is asking for trouble. Bailing is safer - gravel is no fun (if you cannot manouver a skinny tired bike on loose gravel you need help) - than being a bumper ornament for some twit in a truck.

[bentstrider]

I dare ya to get in the path of a 50 tonne truck and sit there when the driver decides to push past. I sincerely believe that in this case, I would have been dead had I done that. He deliberately placed me in his blind area, and then lost track of me, and then forced his way through. Me being mid lane would not have prevented that, and would have escalated his behaviour. I have no desire to have a massive truck tailgating me, blasting the horn, and so on and so on; I would rather hit the gravel than risk antagonizing someone who has no respect for any road user but him or herself.

VC is nice, but theories and reality do not always mix.

I'm licensed to drive one of these badboys and my bike is what gets me to work.
Ride my bike on a twenty mile roundtrip just to drive a '53 ft reefer all night.
Besides that, most of these truckers you speak of are those ones who are getting paid by the load.
They really have no logbook to keep if they're within 100 miles of their homebase.
With these advantages, they'll try to earn $400-$600 dollars by squeezing in 7+ trips into a few hours.
That way they could just sit at home and spank themselves the rest of the day.
Never happened on my bike, but I've actually been "called out" on my CB and nearly had my own 18 wheeler run off the road by some of these pricks.
I do the legal speed limit and watch the road as if it were pox-marked by landmines.
With quick-cash on the mind, these CDL speed demons have total disregard for anything moving slower than them.
The only thing that will scare them the most though are "polar bears".
These are white CHP patrol cars with Commercial Vehicle Enforcement officers in them.

[sgtsmile]

I'm licensed to drive one of these badboys and my bike is what gets me to work.
Ride my bike on a twenty mile roundtrip just to drive a '53 ft reefer all night.
Besides that, most of these truckers you speak of are those ones who are getting paid by the load.
They really have no logbook to keep if they're within 100 miles of their homebase.
With these advantages, they'll try to earn $400-$600 dollars by squeezing in 7+ trips into a few hours.
That way they could just sit at home and spank themselves the rest of the day.
Never happened on my bike, but I've actually been "called out" on my CB and nearly had my own 18 wheeler run off the road by some of these pricks.
I do the legal speed limit and watch the road as if it were pox-marked by landmines.
With quick-cash on the mind, these CDL speed demons have total disregard for anything moving slower than them.
The only thing that will scare them the most though are "polar bears".
These are white CHP patrol cars with Commercial Vehicle Enforcement officers in them.

You are the kind of truck driver I love! I dont want to sound anti truck, cause I am not, but it is the ones that almost get you that you remember. I recall one narrow road near my house (80km road) that I was riding up. It was a steep hill with a blind summit. I did what I normally do - pick escape route, leave room for a car to pass (there was room) when a truck came up on me. He slowed down, went up at my pace, and waited until he could clearly see before passing. In fact, I waved him by when it was safe. That happened that day no less than THREE times! I was so happy.

All I have been arguing in this thread is that prudence and VC need to be mixed and if a person is being a jerk, it is better to bail than blindly stick to a theory. Theory will be cold comfort when you are in a hospital or a morgue.

[joejack951]

The reality is that I got run off the road by the actions of an ******* driving aggressively in a large truck. My lane position had little to do with it. Had I been in mid lane, the situation would have been just as bad except that the driver, instead of slowly squeezing me out, would have interpreted my actions hostilely and then taken even more aggressive action. It is simply foolish to take shelter in the notion that "right of way" means your bike has as much road pressence as a truck. Taking a lane in the city, esp when there are fewer spots to bail and speeds are much much lower (and you can therefore realistically hold traffic speed long enough to get out of trouble), makes sense I agree, but on high speed roads, it is asking for trouble. Bailing is safer - gravel is no fun (if you cannot manouver a skinny tired bike on loose gravel you need help) - than being a bumper ornament for some twit in a truck.

I never said to not bail when confronted by a truly aggressive driver. VC is not standing your ground until death. How would a driver interpret you being mid-lane as hostile if you were there the whole time? It's one thing to swerve out in front to try and slow someone down but if you were there all along, what do they have to complain about? If they still try to pass and the situation becomes unsafe, then change your position to get out of there.

[Roody]

Diane and others--

I ride a lot with my friend Tony. Tony is what I call an "urban guerilla" and he rides like what Diane is describing, but probably more so. I, OTOH, ride pretty VC, although probably not "dogmatically" VC. It's interesting to compare the two riding styles head to head.

On the straight-throughs, my VC style is a lot faster and, I'm quite sure, safer than Tony's style. I'll get way ahead of him on straightaways, while he is slowed down by the condition of the sidewalk or gutter he rides in. I also see a lot of close misses from all directions when he starts weaving in traffic.

Tony drops me at the intersections, though, as he rides up on the sidewalk and crosses against the red. Or he turns right on red, and makes a quick U-turn in busy traffic to get back on track. Either way, he's half a block ahead of me by the time the light changes and I go across with the cars.


One thing I've learned is to let Tony lead when it comes to finding short cuts. I've followed him through many maze-like alleys and parking lots that turn out to be much quicker (and more fun) than sticking to the traditional streets and bike paths.

But Tony has more guts than I do, and much quicker reaction times (he can kick anybody's butt at video games). I think it's important to find a riding style that fits your personality and your abilities, while compensating for your weaknesses. Tony's style works for him because he's very quick thinking and ballsy. My style works for me (and I think the majority of cyclists) who are a little more cautious in temperament.

I don't understand why riders on this board are so quick to criticize the style used by others. Save your anger for the moronic laws, puzzling road designs and suicidal vehicle maneuvers that make both cycling and driving more dangerous.

[-=£em in Pa=-]

ROODY = "But Tony has more guts than I do, and much quicker reaction times (he can kick anybody's butt at video games). I think it's important to find a riding style that fits your personality and your abilities, while compensating for your weaknesses. Tony's style works for him because he's very quick thinking and ballsy. My style works for me (and I think the majority of cyclists) who are a little more cautious in temperament.

I don't understand why riders on this board are so quick to criticize the style used by others. Save your anger for the moronic laws, puzzling road designs and suicidal vehicle maneuvers that make both cycling and driving more dangerous."

Perfect !

[sbhikes]

Couldn't have said it better! Thanks for that.

Diane and others--

I ride a lot with my friend Tony. Tony is what I call an "urban guerilla" and he rides like what Diane is describing, but probably more so. I, OTOH, ride pretty VC, although probably not "dogmatically" VC. It's interesting to compare the two riding styles head to head.

On the straight-throughs, my VC style is a lot faster and, I'm quite sure, safer than Tony's style. I'll get way ahead of him on straightaways, while he is slowed down by the condition of the sidewalk or gutter he rides in. I also see a lot of close misses from all directions when he starts weaving in traffic.

Tony drops me at the intersections, though, as he rides up on the sidewalk and crosses against the red. Or he turns right on red, and makes a quick U-turn in busy traffic to get back on track. Either way, he's half a block ahead of me by the time the light changes and I go across with the cars.


One thing I've learned is to let Tony lead when it comes to finding short cuts. I've followed him through many maze-like alleys and parking lots that turn out to be much quicker (and more fun) than sticking to the traditional streets and bike paths.

But Tony has more guts than I do, and much quicker reaction times (he can kick anybody's butt at video games). I think it's important to find a riding style that fits your personality and your abilities, while compensating for your weaknesses. Tony's style works for him because he's very quick thinking and ballsy. My style works for me (and I think the majority of cyclists) who are a little more cautious in temperament.

I don't understand why riders on this board are so quick to criticize the style used by others. Save your anger for the moronic laws, puzzling road designs and suicidal vehicle maneuvers that make both cycling and driving more dangerous.

[genec]

Well, yeah, you caught me stirring the pot. But the reality is that lately I've been a bit envious of those Mexican guys I see. They always seem to get around so well and with minimal static, hopping up on the sidewalk, cutting through gas stations on the corner, riding wrong way. Sure it's wrong and maybe a little dangerous here and there, but sometimes it's actually safer and easier.

I've been feeling like a patsy to the Man for all my law abiding ways lately and I just feel like rebelling. Maybe it's the mountain bike I've been riding.

I've seen these same guys on my various routes... and frankly when I ride my heavy cruiser I do employ some of these same techniques... but then I can easily move at ped speeds and still reach my destination in reasonable time. The problems of course with this riding style are that switching between ped mode and bike mode require extra diligence on my part when entering the streets and crossing driveways, and the potential that a path may not be open due to playing kids or autos parked in driveways that cross sidewalks. My personal preference is to ride faster on these quiet residential streets.

This technique however is not very conducive to commuting... where traveling at 6MPH constantly would mean that my commute would take upwards of an hour and a half either way vice the 45 minutes it now takes. Also compounding the usefulness of the technique is the lack of sidewalks in several areas... meaning I must take to the street, where vc cycling does work. (note that is "vc" not "EC," the latter compounded by all sorts of politics and bike lane phobia).

[patc]

But Tony has more guts than I do, and much quicker reaction times (he can kick anybody's butt at video games). I think it's important to find a riding style that fits your personality and your abilities, while compensating for your weaknesses. Tony's style works for him because he's very quick thinking and ballsy. My style works for me (and I think the majority of cyclists) who are a little more cautious in temperament.

I don't understand why riders on this board are so quick to criticize the style used by others. Save your anger for the moronic laws, puzzling road designs and suicidal vehicle maneuvers that make both cycling and driving more dangerous.

And another +1.

[genec]

I don't understand why riders on this board are so quick to criticize the style used by others. Save your anger for the moronic laws, puzzling road designs and suicidal vehicle maneuvers that make both cycling and driving more dangerous.[/COLOR]"[/I]

Perfect !

Tend to agree except in the case of wrong way riding... that effects other cyclists so it is a big NO NO in my book.

I also object to red light running just for the sake of running the light... I know there are times when either the light doesn't change or when there isn't another vehicle around for miles, red light running at that point doesn't matter much.

But when traffic is waiting at a light, and that traffic includes cyclists, the worst thing another cyclist can do is run that light. Sets a negative image in the minds of motorists, and rather counters everything the cyclist patiently waiting at the light is doing right.

Sidewalk riders might do the same thing, but they generally are slow cruise riders smoking cigarettes in my area, so hardly an image to emulate.

[sbhikes]

I've seen these same guys on my various routes... and frankly when I ride my heavy cruiser I do employ some of these same techniques... but then I can easily move at ped speeds and still reach my destination in reasonable time. The problems of course with this riding style are that switching between ped mode and bike mode require extra diligence on my part when entering the streets and crossing driveways, and the potential that a path may not be open due to playing kids or autos parked in driveways that cross sidewalks. My personal preference is to ride faster on these quiet residential streets.

This technique however is not very conducive to commuting... where traveling at 6MPH constantly would mean that my commute would take upwards of an hour and a half either way vice the 45 minutes it now takes. Also compounding the usefulness of the technique is the lack of sidewalks in several areas... meaning I must take to the street, where vc cycling does work. (note that is "vc" not "EC," the latter compounded by all sorts of politics and bike lane phobia).
I'm talking about good old urban riding and going full speed on the sidewalk, safety and pedestrians be damned. Just in those spots where it actually works, of course.

Most of the time, of course, I'm plodding along all vc appropriate, like a good girl. But I'm getting sick of red lights, and tired of trying to stake my turf on bike-lane-less roads, wearing myself out trying to go the speed of traffic when maybe I'd rather be smoking a cigarette (just kidding about the cigarette). Especially when there's a nice, juicy sidewalk with nobody on it but a bunch of Latinos on beater bikes already getting up to the next light way before me.

If only I wasn't a girl so I could take some of these alleys and shortcuts by the railroad tracks that I see. Alas, it is not meant to be.

[Roody]

If only I wasn't a girl so I could take some of these alleys and shortcuts by the railroad tracks that I see. Alas, it is not meant to be.
If you're riding the mountain bike these days, why not?

One of the great joys of urban riding (or walking) is discovering that the city is not a concrete monolith. There are wild places in almost any city--I call them "beauty spots"--and a bike or your feets can get you there.

[donnamb]

Um, 'cause those tend to be the places where girls get pulled off their bikes whatever the type and get assaulted.

[genec]

If you're riding the mountain bike these days, why not?

One of the great joys of urban riding (or walking) is discovering that the city is not a concrete monolith. There are wild places in almost any city--I call them "beauty spots"--and a bike or your feets can get you there.

That is actually something I am considering... never been a big fan of mountain bikes due to really enjoying the smooth ride and fast rhythem of a street maching.

But I have noticed on satellite pics and from some local off road exploration that there may be a possibility for me to commute off road to work... at least I want to try. (hey, that's the fun of biking)

If nothing else, I'll at least have a good time exploring.

So gotta get a good trails bike... thinking full suspension with about 3 inches of travel. Just gotta figure out what bike. Looked at some Iron Horse bikes the other da... about $1300 for what looked like a sweet ride.

[Roody]

Um, 'cause those tend to be the places where girls get pulled off their bikes whatever the type and get assaulted.
I don't think they should try that with Diane. She's a hell of a feisty chick!

[DCCommuter]

What we're talking about is not VC vs. non-VC, it's riding in traffic vs. riding outside of traffic. When you ride a bike, you have a choice that no other vehicle has -- you can either ride in traffic, or alongside it, on a sidewalk, bike path, bike lane, or even a wide outside lane. I'll gladly admit that riding in traffic can be stressful, and depending on circumstances I'll go out of my way to ride a route that avoids traffic. In fact, I think we'd be hard pressed to find any cyclist who prefers riding in traffic to without traffic, all other things equal. Many cyclists choose to never ride in traffic, and I respect their choice.

But if I'm riding in traffic, I'm riding VC.

[Roody]

That is actually something I am considering... never been a big fan of mountain bikes due to really enjoying the smooth ride and fast rhythem of a street maching.

But I have noticed on satellite pics and from some local off road exploration that there may be a possibility for me to commute off road to work... at least I want to try. (hey, that's the fun of biking)

If nothing else, I'll at least have a good time exploring.

So gotta get a good trails bike... thinking full suspension with about 3 inches of travel. Just gotta figure out what bike. Looked at some Iron Horse bikes the other da... about $1300 for what looked like a sweet ride.Actually you need a bike like mine. A MTB with no suspension and street slicks. It's a lot lighter (mine is 26 pounds) and your pedal power doesn't get soaked up by a bunch of springs. It's fast enough and nimble enough to turn on a dime and give change. And it's low maintenance compared to a road bike.

Oh yeah you can do most trails with it but hang on going down a rocky slope.

[donnamb]

I don't think they should try that with Diane. She's a hell of a feisty chick!

Sad but true, one of the main characteristics of feisty chicks who don't get messed with is knowing where not to go.

[古強者死神]

About calling in this guys tag to his company...

Somthing leads me to belive (atleast in my experince) that employers of bad drivers dont give a damn.

I have called in one or two bad drivers in my day, and I get somthing like "oh well sorry for the inconveniance"

I have two really good stories relating to bad drivers and lack of enforment to contain them but they are not really bike related.

Lets say it just makes me sick the amount of stuff people get away with on the road, but yet I feel as if I will get pulled over for petty stuff like my music being too loud at 12noon on a busy street (its happend :/)

[LittleBigMan]

Lately all this law-abiding VC cycling is getting very tedious to me. I'm finding it much more expeditious and fun to skip the left turn lane BS and just hop on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the street. And I'm getting pretty sick of these big trucks who don't give a damn about my lane position and are going to pass me even if all the on-coming traffic has to lurch out of the way or even back up (!). And I've had it up to here with the pressure of trying to ride fast enough for traffic when there's a nice easy sidewalk right over there nobody is using. Doesn't anybody walk anymore?

Rules are meant to be broken. :p
I hate to be the antagonist, but here goes.

Try as I might, I've never been able to keep pace with even the slowest, 30 mph. traffic, except downhill.

Crossing an intersection as a pedestrian is perfectly legal for a cyclist. But I'm not sure what "hopping on the sidewalk on the wrong side of the street" means in this context. It sounds dicey, to me.

Sidewalk riding is often very tempting, but I gave it up a long time ago due to so many close calls. I never got the nack of having eyes in the back of my head. Each driveway becomes an intersection to cross, and that's what we're talking about avoiding in the first place.

[sbhikes]

It's a lot easier to be feisty online than off. I used to work at a corner flower stand for about 10 years and I did learn to handle difficult situations pretty well. The worst I ever did was cut a guy with my clippers and throw buckets of water at somebody who wouldn't leave me alone. (This was all pre-cell phone days.) Another female co-worker of mine was so feisty she hit a guy trying to rob her over the head with the money box. Oh, and I did tell a guy who wanted to rape me to go F- off. That caught him off guard. That's the key: don't react how they expect. But unfortunately, the best way to do that is to be in public when it happens so you can cause a huge scene out in the street and totally overreact. The railroad tracks and back alleys isn't quite public enough.

My mountain bike has smooth tires for easy street riding, and was made in 1993 or so and has only had one quick release replaced and nothing else. Not even the tires, but that's probably because it hung from a hook for several years. Only 2 flats in all that time, too. Yep, they are long-lasting, sturdy and ride nicely with smooth tires.

The sidewalk left turn is done like this: You are approaching the intersection but rather than get in line with the traffic you cross the street first chance you get and get up on the sidewalk on the other side. Then you make your left turn by following the sidewalk, and first chance you get, you cross the street back over to your intended position.

If you are in the Latino section of town, so many other guys do it that you catch no pedestrians by surprise. You don't even have too much trouble with cars, either, since they are used to it.

[Keith99]

And I've had it up to here with the pressure of trying to ride fast enough for traffic when there's a nice easy sidewalk right over there nobody is using. Doesn't anybody walk anymore?

Rules are meant to be broken. :p

I live on a side street. For some reason a lot (high percentage, not high number) ride on the sidewalk. Ok I can live with that, it is not a remote side street, in fact it has speed bumps because it had become a popular 'short cut'.

But I also see pedestrians walking in the street all the time. On some days the majority of Peds are in the street and the majority of cyclists are on the sidewalk.

I'm soooo cunfused.

[Ritehsedad]

All I have been arguing in this thread is that prudence and VC need to be mixed and if a person is being a jerk, it is better to bail than blindly stick to a theory. Theory will be cold comfort when you are in a hospital or a morgue.


Gross tonnage rule definitely applies...the vehicle with the most gross tonnage has the right-of-way.

[Helmet Head]

I've neglected this thread. Sgtsmile has a lot of misconceptions, some of which were addressed by joejack and Roody. Good job guys.

I don't know if sgtsmile is going to read this, so I don't want to waste a lot of time, but I challenge the following notions you seem to have conveyed. These are not meant to be quotes, but assertions I believe you've made, stated in so many words (please correct me if I mistate your position).

VC is a "nice theory". No, VC is set of best practices honed and refined over decades.

Sometimes VC is just not prudent. I believe you're confusing VC with the VC technique of taking the lane (when not inappropriate to do so). Taking the lane is often not prudent, but there is nothing non-VC about the driver of a vehicle moving slower than other traffic yielding the ROW further left on the road to faster traffic.

[sgtsmile]

.
Sometimes VC is just not prudent. I believe you're confusing VC with the VC technique of taking the lane (when not inappropriate to do so). Taking the lane is often not prudent, but there is nothing non-VC about the driver of a vehicle moving slower than other traffic yielding the ROW further left on the road to faster traffic.

Fair enough:) the impression that I have had reading the posts on this forum is that some people are die hards about taking lanes, sometimes it seems, at all costs. THAT is what I had an issue with. There are many many cases when taking the lane makes perfect sense, and I do it all the time. What I was objecting to was a seemingly blind assertion that taking the lane is the answer in almost all cases. That I would dispute, with some justification. I believe in a flexible approach to both car driving and bike riding. What puzzled me was the notion that there were strong advocates for bike rights who seemed to be VERY inflexible in their approach. If VC stands for being flexible, and taking "paths" of least resistance while standing up for your rights in traffic, then I can aggree 100%. If VC is dogmatic, then sorry. Seems I misread some things.

Glad we are on the same page now, as it makes reading this forum a whole lot easier...

[Helmet Head]

Well, to be fair, most cyclists unfamiliar with bike-crash types, their causes, and how to avoid them, don't realize how often taking the lane is the safest/prudent/effective approach. I see many more cyclists erring on the side of riding too far to the right, and making themselves more vulnerable to the most common types of car-bike collisions, than the reverse.

For some more clarity on the issue, consider reading the Wikipedia article on Vehicular Cycling (link is in my signature).

[sgtsmile]

I never said to not bail when confronted by a truly aggressive driver. VC is not standing your ground until death. How would a driver interpret you being mid-lane as hostile if you were there the whole time? It's one thing to swerve out in front to try and slow someone down but if you were there all along, what do they have to complain about? If they still try to pass and the situation becomes unsafe, then change your position to get out of there.


Been away from this thread for a while. Weirdly, I think we are arguing the same point but looking at it from opposite sides.

Let me see if I can summarize: We both hold to the idea that taking the lane when prudent is a good idea, and that it can save us grief in many situations. We both hold to the idea that bailing is better than being run off the road etc etc. I think we actually agree. I went and reread what I said in this thread and cannot see that I am arguing AGAINST taking lanes, but rather against taking lanes when it is not, in my interpretation of events, safe to do so. In this kind of situation, what I would do next time, is NOT turn until the truck had turned. There is no harm waiting and letting him make his turn first; in fact, it prevents the whole situation without a great debate about lane and road position.

[chipcom]

...in fact, it prevents the whole situation without a great debate about lane and road position.

But...but..without that debate we would not have so many wacky theories to make fun of! :eek:
Don't me messin with my material there sarge!

[joejack951]

Been away from this thread for a while. Weirdly, I think we are arguing the same point but looking at it from opposite sides.

Let me see if I can summarize: We both hold to the idea that taking the lane when prudent is a good idea, and that it can save us grief in many situations. We both hold to the idea that bailing is better than being run off the road etc etc. I think we actually agree. I went and reread what I said in this thread and cannot see that I am arguing AGAINST taking lanes, but rather against taking lanes when it is not, in my interpretation of events, safe to do so. In this kind of situation, what I would do next time, is NOT turn until the truck had turned. There is no harm waiting and letting him make his turn first; in fact, it prevents the whole situation without a great debate about lane and road position.

Yes, we do agree on most points although we seem to disagree on how drivers might react to a cyclists lane position. I say "seem" because maybe I misinterpretted your story. I read it as you made the turn and immediately got as far right as possible in a lane too narrow to safely share in hope to reduce conflict with the truck behind you. I disagree with this approach. If you moved right to get out of the way of a truck who was not yielding, then I certainly can't disagree.

And I agree that there is no harm in letting the truck go first to reduce the possibility of conflict down the road. I do this sometimes on my commute at a stop sign right before a long, narrow uphill stretch of road. But once I'm on the road, I'm centered and not moving unless someone does something to put me at risk (hasn't happened yet in a few hundred commutes).