Because it seems few cyclists around here know what to do when they encounter one of these. I'm beginning to think that the average bicycle rider has as much knowledge about the laws that govern traffic as your average electric hibachi.
Further, it's because of the idiots who run these that drivers here expect bicycles to run intersections without stopping - much less looking if anybody is coming from any direction. It's incredibly annoying to come to a four way stop where a driver has decided to wait for you to blow through without stopping - only to have to stop and wave them to go ahead, assuring them you do in fact recognize what a stop sign is, and understand what it means.
A good example of the confusion caused by poor cycling practices happened last week, when I reached a four way stop just after a car did (the car was to my left) it took me a couple seconds to realise that they hadn't expected me to stop - so we sat there for an awkward moment when the driver began to pull forward slowly. During the period of time we had both sat static, another cyclist approached the intersection from the opposite direction (facing me) and after stopping he decided that he wasn't going to wait for the two other vehicles to clear the intersection - and started forward at the same time as the car. Lucky for both there was no bike to car contact.
Stop at stop signs folks. Stop signs work on a first come first serve basis, wait for the people who were there before you to get out of your way before you proceed. I've seen several people blow through intersections over the past few days, and I'm starting to think that I ought to worry more about inattentive and reckless cyclists more than I should worry about inattentive drivers (after all, in the same period of time I've seen zero cars blow stop signs). If people were to drive cars the way these people operate bicycles, we'd probably all be dead.
That's a YIELD sign. It means you slow down until you're sure nothing's coming, and no cops are watching, and then you just keep going.
Don't ask me what the sign means that actually says "YIELD" on it. It probably means you're supposed to ride through the intersection no-hands with your eyes shut :D but I haven't looked it up.
/sarcasm
Yeah, it bugs me too. I hear bleating about how we don't get respect as legit road users. Oh noes, stopping is teh inconvenient, etc etc. Yeah, life is hard. ;)
Roody
05-19-06, 08:27 PM
I occasionally stop at one of those red octagons, but not usuall a full stop. I think it's perfectly safe to ride through one on a bike, as long as you can see that there is no traffic. Why stop if you know for sure that nobody is there?
-=Łem in Pa=-
05-19-06, 09:14 PM
The whole situation could have been avoided if you just ran the stop sign.
superwombat
05-19-06, 09:17 PM
I occasionally stop at one of those red octagons, but not usuall a full stop. I think it's perfectly safe to ride through one on a bike, as long as you can see that there is no traffic. Why stop if you know for sure that nobody is there?
Would you apply this to cars, too?
I see alot of stop signs where a yield would work wonderfully. If I can see that there will not be any cross traffic for a goodly while (very visible in both directions, no obstructions in the way) then why shouldn't I be able to zip through?
I feel if that there is a major certainty you aren't going to have/cause a collision, why stop?
See also: Deserted red lights at 3:00 a.m. that take their sweet time turning green.
Mos6502
05-19-06, 09:25 PM
Sorry, I must have forgotten that bicycles are exempt from the rules which apply to all real vehicles.
donnamb
05-19-06, 10:28 PM
Sorry, I must have forgotten that bicycles are exempt from the rules which apply to all real vehicles.
You also forgot that not only don't bikes have to stop at those funny, red signs, they also don't have to stop or slow for those weird people who are neither in a car nor on a bike, but are trying to cross your personal racetrack for some bizarre reason. What you're supposed to do is not slow down, ride within 6 inches of their baby's stroller, and then sneer and swear at them for trying to ruin your ride. After all, you like to ride fast and the city government really should accomodate you because of that. It's discrimination to enforce traffic laws, didn't you know?
HereNT
05-19-06, 10:48 PM
I thought two vehicles approching the same intersection at the same speed at the same time meant that the one on the right had the right of way, at least in the US... You had the 'legal' right of way, so he waved you through...
That said, everything is a yeild to me.
Mos6502
05-19-06, 10:52 PM
I thought two vehicles approching the same intersection at the same speed at the same time meant that the one on the right had the right of way, at least in the US... You had the 'legal' right of way, so he waved you through...
You'll note that the car arrived at the intersection before I had, not at the same time. I confused them by following traffic laws and using common sense.
superwombat
05-19-06, 10:52 PM
Where possible, on right turns I diagonal to the other road: hop the curb, cut the corner on the grass or whatever, going right of the stop sign, and resume my journey.
I'm guessing this is bad form.
Prime Directive
05-19-06, 11:57 PM
Of course blowing through stop signs is discourteous to other traffic and unacceptable in other ways, but I don't see how carefully approaching the intersection at a crawl and stopping whenever another vehicle has the ROW is comparable. However, because cagers are less aware of their surroundings inside a cage, because they can more easily stop and start again, and because they have the potential to injure others if they don't, it is more reasonable to expect them to come to a complete stop in all situations.
MarkS
05-20-06, 09:48 AM
A couple weeks ago I was at a 4-way stop, waiting for the car on my right to clear. I start to push off when, whoosh, down the hill on the left comes a fully kitted biker at speed -- not even the pretend stop I suspect most of us do. "Sorry!" he yells as he passes ... and I miss my turn.
rando
05-20-06, 10:38 AM
If I can see there's nobody there I will blow through the stop sign. if I can't see if cars are there or there are cars there already or approaching, I will stop.
PaulH
05-20-06, 10:40 AM
Around here, one has to be at (or in some cases beyond) the stop line in order to scan for approaching traffic at many intersections.
Because it seems few cyclists around here know what to do when they encounter one of these. I'm beginning to think that the average bicycle rider has as much knowledge about the laws that govern traffic as your average electric hibachi.
Further, it's because of the idiots who run these that drivers here expect bicycles to run intersections without stopping - much less looking if anybody is coming from any direction. It's incredibly annoying to come to a four way stop where a driver has decided to wait for you to blow through without stopping - only to have to stop and wave them to go ahead, assuring them you do in fact recognize what a stop sign is, and understand what it means.
A good example of the confusion caused by poor cycling practices happened last week, when I reached a four way stop just after a car did (the car was to my left) it took me a couple seconds to realise that they hadn't expected me to stop - so we sat there for an awkward moment when the driver began to pull forward slowly. During the period of time we had both sat static, another cyclist approached the intersection from the opposite direction (facing me) and after stopping he decided that he wasn't going to wait for the two other vehicles to clear the intersection - and started forward at the same time as the car. Lucky for both there was no bike to car contact.
Stop at stop signs folks. Stop signs work on a first come first serve basis, wait for the people who were there before you to get out of your way before you proceed. I've seen several people blow through intersections over the past few days, and I'm starting to think that I ought to worry more about inattentive and reckless cyclists more than I should worry about inattentive drivers (after all, in the same period of time I've seen zero cars blow stop signs). If people were to drive cars the way these people operate bicycles, we'd probably all be dead.
I don't like your tone and I won't be lectured to. You should also post this message on various car sites and lecture them because they are the problem, not bicycles.
I shouldn't even be responding to your nonsensical argument that "for a couple of days I observed that not one car ran a red and one bicyclists did, therefore all cars stop at stop signs and all bikes run stop signs" but you have hit a chord.
Bicycles are very few in numbers compared to cars. Here in Miami, acknowledged "worst drivers capital" (read the recent posts) cars constantly fail to stop at stop signs. So if cars are by far the vast majority of the vehicles on the road and they also blow through stop signs, they are the major problem, not bikes.
Do you even really ride a bicycle, are you just trolling to get a rise out of us (or at least me)?
Get over it that you encountered one bad cyclist and before you call people idiots, look in the mirror.
Mos6502
05-20-06, 01:07 PM
I hope your post is a joke. But I've run across a few too many people who would seriously take to heart what you have typed as if it made any sense at all, so I'm not sure if you are serious or not. You didn't even paraphrase me correctly, since I did not say or even imply that all bicycles run stop signs - I did in fact mention that I stop at them, so such a claim (all bicycles run stop signs) would be fairly ridiculous for me to make.:)
San Rensho
05-20-06, 03:18 PM
I hope your post is a joke. But I've run across a few too many people who would seriously take to heart what you have typed as if it made any sense at all, so I'm not sure if you are serious or not. You didn't even paraphrase me correctly, since I did not say or even imply that all bicycles run stop signs - I did in fact mention that I stop at them, so such a claim (all bicycles run stop signs) would be fairly ridiculous for me to make.:)
I am dead serious, I meant everything that wrote, except I do regret making any personal attacks about you.
donnamb
05-20-06, 03:40 PM
I certainly have no idea about other people's experiences, but I have been riding my bike to and from work every weekday since April 10th. I know that isn't a lot of time but every day I have gone to and from work I have witnessed at minimum 2 and up to 6 cyclists per trip blow through stop signs. I am not exaggerating. My commute takes me about 20-25 minutes one way and that is 3.5-4 miles. When I mean blow through, I mean they don't even slow down. At least one of these blow throughs per day require a pedestrian, other cyclist, or car to do something risky to avoid a collision of some sort. On the same route, I have never seen more than one car fail to stop at the same stop signs. Even though there are a lot of bikes on the roads and streets in Portland, I still encounter many more cars than bikes.
Maybe I'm just not giving cyclists enough benefit of the doubt. It could just be the cyclists who ride through my neighborhood and along the commute route I use. Maybe I just started daily commuting during a bad month and this is all a fluke. Maybe it's just a bad time in the astrological calendar to expect 2 wheeled vehicles to obey traffic laws. I guess it's possible that many cyclists in Portland are completely unaware of which traffic laws apply to them here. It's also a possibility that there is some large-scale civil disobedience via traffic law violation campaign going on that I am totally out of the loop about. Maybe I just need too be more understanding about why cyclists don't follow traffic laws. I know that having to slow down or stop bums some people out and I know that expecting people to do things that they don't like doing can make them feel really bad about themselves. Perhaps having to follow rules when they were kids completely traumatized them. Goodness knows, I wouldn't want to bruise anyone's self esteem or their inner child. After all, none of us like to be told we've made a mistake. It's just such a negative feeling to think that someone might be directing criticism at you.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I realize that I am misdirecting my criticism. I should be more upset at cars and pedestrians. There are more of them out there, so they should be more sensitive to the needs of cyclists. After all, riding your bike is such a unique and amazing thing and people who do it are really special. Rules weren't really meant for the kind of extraordinary person. Wow, I feel so much better now.
ellenDSD
05-20-06, 03:45 PM
I am dead serious, I meant everything that wrote, except I do regret making any personal attacks about you.
Oh my! I'm guessing our chances for a civilized discussion have just been sent straight to h*e*double L... :rolleyes:
Stop signs... if I can plainly see (key here is "plainly see") that no one is coming, I come to an almost stop. I'm almost doing a trackstand but not quite. If there is traffic of any kind that has right of way, then I stop. Simple, I know, but it works miraculously well.
sbhikes
05-20-06, 05:45 PM
Rules are meant to be broken :p
Just kidding. It bugs me, too, when cyclists don't stop at stop signs. But to be fair, neither do a lot of drivers, either. The social order is breaking down. It's madness out there.
Az B
05-20-06, 07:46 PM
I stopped at one once. I waited for a very long time and it never changed to GO. So I had to turn around and head back home.
Now I have to plan my route so that I don't encounter any of them. It's a big hassle.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/e/image/alto.jpg
But they say alto. Which I believe means high. So does it mean "Get High"?
CommuterRun
05-20-06, 08:12 PM
I have a few stop signs on some of my routes that I'll blow right through without even slowing, but this is only after I've determined that not only are there not any close vehicles, there are no vehicles of any type in sight in any direction. Not in front, not behind, not to either side, none moving in any direction.
I have other stop signs on my route that, if I don't come to a complete stop, I'll be going slow enough to stop instantly if I want. This is no different from what most car drivers do.
SamHouston
05-21-06, 07:32 AM
People have a long list of reasons for ignoring traffic regulation, some are better than others for entertainment value. My favourite is that it takes too much energy. Using a finger or 2 to stop and then pedaling to get going again! Something must be done! Maybe if we had some kind of motor to take the strain off our poor broken bodies that can't make a 5 mile commute if forced to stop at all the stupid cross streets and crosswalks! Or worse, when my fellow fixed gear enthusiasts claim it takes too much energy.....whaaaa whaaa whaaa. Endless amusement.
These wimps need to hit the gym if they're going to use a bicycle, since using the bicycle obviously isn't meant as a means to an end that involves exertion of any sort.
There are other reasons, just as good or bad, but "it's too much effort to stop" is the only one that really cracks me up. Oh it's sooo.....hard.....to....pedal..
It looks like an overexposed, out of focus picture of a stop sign.
I suggest taking a photography class and finding better subject matter.
Bikes-N-Drums
05-21-06, 04:56 PM
It seems that regardless of traffic laws people are going to do what they want. Which is fine by me, actually. It's a choice to obey laws and I must admit I don't honor every law in the world.
But, I interpret traffic laws as rules designed for the safety of the masses as well as my own personal safety. Since I am exposed to great danger if auto collision occurs on a bicycle it makes less sense to act like a traffic anarchist. And if I have an auto/bike collision because of failure to stop - yeah, it's my own damned fault - but now I've tied up the unknowing driver's life in the pending legal/insurance/emotional struggles. I don't care what other people do. In fact, the vigilant commuter recognizes that most people do stupid things on the road, in cars or on bikes. Personally, I do not want to be one of "them".
LittleBigMan
05-22-06, 08:12 AM
Because it seems few cyclists around here know what to do when they encounter one of these [stop signs.] I'm beginning to think that the average bicycle rider has as much knowledge about the laws that govern traffic as your average electric hibachi.
Fortunately, motorists know exactly what to do in the following situations:
1) Four-way stops: as long as you're the first one to "go," it's not necessary to come to a complete stop.
2) Disabled traffic signals in flashing mode: treat yellow flashing lights as a four-way stop, only actually stop.
3) Speed limit signs: never go slower than the posted limit, or you will force traffic behind you to tailgate.
4) Yellow curbs: park here, there is usually extra space provided for your benefit, and it's free.
5) Bike lanes: of course, treat these like yellow curbs. Thank the city for creating parking space for you.
6) Crosswalk: this is provided for you to crawl into the intersection before turning left so you can get a headstart.
7) Blue flashing lights: suddenly remember all traffic laws and even wave pedestrians across the crosswalk.
DataJunkie
05-22-06, 08:20 AM
It's blury and I think it says go
*hits his monitor*
rule
05-22-06, 08:40 AM
I get the same 'just waiting for you to run it' reaction from drivers along my commute. Now I signal ahead of time as I am rolling up to the stop sign for them to go. I have had a little confusion from time to time anyway no matter what I do, but generally if I communicate they respond in kind.
ken cummings
05-22-06, 03:24 PM
Just something colorful we used to swipe when I was in college. The local police knew they got them back at the end of the school year.
TYB069
05-23-06, 09:32 AM
Fortunately, motorists know exactly what to do in the following situations:
1) Four-way stops: as long as you're the first one to "go," it's not necessary to come to a complete stop.
2) Disabled traffic signals in flashing mode: treat yellow flashing lights as a four-way stop, only actually stop.
3) Speed limit signs: never go slower than the posted limit, or you will force traffic behind you to tailgate.
4) Yellow curbs: park here, there is usually extra space provided for your benefit, and it's free.
5) Bike lanes: of course, treat these like yellow curbs. Thank the city for creating parking space for you.
6) Crosswalk: this is provided for you to crawl into the intersection before turning left so you can get a headstart.
7) Blue flashing lights: suddenly remember all traffic laws and even wave pedestrians across the crosswalk.